502 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Otherwise, I have only this to say:







&

[danimalism]

So i spotted this in the space combat thread

TheBabeLover wrote...

The Casy Hudson interview about
space combat for the people who wanted to know:

Here
at 03:30.

And here,
for the people who just want to read.

suuuuuuure hope they get it right

it could be sweet

Modifié par danimalism, 10 juillet 2010 - 09:52 .

[mattahraw]

Space combat really could be sweet. I'm so glad BabeLover found that interview. It gets my hopes up. Hopefully Casey meant it and it wasn't just something that came out when he was put on the spot.

Modifié par mattahraw, 12 juillet 2010 - 06:53 .

[mattahraw]

commander Thermos wrote...

I miss the Mako in ME2

They should bring the exploration back in ME3. New enviroment also.
Rescue missions? Sounds sweet.

The return of exploration in overlord was really cool, I think ME2 was weaker without exploration. I'm glad it wasn't with the Mako and more mountains though. A few tweaks to the HH and it'd be awesome.

[crehane]

Okay, just to add my tuppence worth to this discussion.



I think lots of people (myself included) found the handling of the Mako vehicle a frustrating experience at times. However, the planetary exploration options which it afforded the player were also a lot of fun and, for me at least, one aspects of the first game that made it such a great and immersive experience. Not to mention the fact that the presence of the Mako and planetary exploration extended the length of the first game significantly. I think it's omission from the second game was a step backwards to be honest.







I've lost count of the number of times where I paused on top of a mountain or at the crest of a ridgeline to simply admire the wonderful vistas on the lastest alien world. It really did add to the immersive experience of the game.



Now, I know that the Mako was a dog to handle, and that the Hammerhead, as a late addition and something that seems like an afterthought, has its own flaws and faults, but there is a need to introduce something into the third game that can address the shortcomings of vehicles in the previous two.







To that end, here is my suggestion: a modular Mako/Hammerhead - configurable for specific mission types. Such a craft would have a basic common chassis, but would, depending on the mission type, have maybe four different configurations.







Firstly, a Mako like heavy tank config for heavy assault. Think of a situation where the terrain is rough/rocky/mountainous and you're tasked with infiltrating a base that is heavily fortified with both ground and air defences. In this instance a ground assault is the only option and heavy weapons and armour are a necessity.







Secondly, a Hammerhead-like fast attack hovercraft - Flat terrain, where speed and surprise are a greater priority than heavy weapons and armour. This craft would sacrifice these aspects for the extra speed needed. Some missions involving use of this craft could also have a time-limit/countdown clock where you must get to the main base before the time runs out.



Thirdly, a Submersible variant - as previously mentioned, such a craft would be appropriate for a visit to the Hanar homeworld (or other explorable water worlds). It could also have medium armour and a maximum operational depth, so that deep underwater trenches would be a hazard for the craft. There could also be one/some worlds with thriving aquatic eco-systems where giant and dangerous creatures wander the depths (think the sub trip in The Phantom Menace!).



The final configuration would be a flying variant. Such a craft could be used for swift exploration of worlds deemed relatively safe but needing investigation. There are options here for aerial combat, ground attack, and surprise assaults on bases lacking adequate aerial defenses. This variant could also be suitable for a space combat role where the craft is used to defend the Normandy. There is even an option for a mission where the crew unexpectedly come across a secret facility equipped with aerial defenses, get hit, and are forced to make a crash landing (imagine having to wrestle with the controls to try and put your damaged ship down safely!)



At the end of the day, Shephard and crew are a futuristic special forces unit, so they should feel like it and have multiple options on how to configure their craft and how to approach a mission.



The above suggestion offers a lot of options for Bioware. If they were to design at least one main mission and two side quests that used each configuration they could come up with some really cool missions and game moments. You could even have a couple of missions where you have a choice of approaches, and different squad members give you tactical advice on which approach they think would be best, with the final decision resting with the player. Thus, do you go for an aerial assault, a fast ground attack, a heavy ground assault, or a stealth insertion via the sub (needs water, of course)?



At the end of the day what makes games like Mass Effect great is that they give players options and put them in cool and memorable situations. I think that a key part of achieving this is by re-introducing vehicular exploration and missions, and what better way to do it than by giving the player the choice of what sort of a vehicle to use!!!

[Foolsfolly]

I support vehicle combat.



I support fighting other vehicles. I support piloting a vehicle as part of a larger strike force attacking an opposing army.



This is a war. It's high time it starts to feel like one and not just a problem a few people can tackle. ME2's ending level gave us a great sense of the scale and the importance in our choices. Now let us show our teeth against the Reaper threat.

[mattahraw]

crehane wrote...

Okay, just to add my tuppence worth to this discussion.

I think lots of people (myself included) found the handling of the Mako vehicle a frustrating experience at times. However, the planetary exploration options which it afforded the player were also a lot of fun and, for me at least, one aspects of the first game that made it such a great and immersive experience. Not to mention the fact that the presence of the Mako and planetary exploration extended the length of the first game significantly. I think it's omission from the second game was a step backwards to be honest.

I've lost count of the number of times where I paused on top of a mountain or at the crest of a ridgeline to simply admire the wonderful vistas on the lastest alien world. It really did add to the immersive experience of the game.

Now, I know that the Mako was a dog to handle, and that the Hammerhead, as a late addition and something that seems like an afterthought, has its own flaws and faults, but there is a need to introduce something into the third game that can address the shortcomings of vehicles in the previous two

To that end, here is my suggestion: a modular Mako/Hammerhead - configurable for specific mission types. Such a craft would have a basic common chassis, but would, depending on the mission type, have maybe four different configurations.

Firstly, a Mako like heavy tank config for heavy assault. Think of a situation where the terrain is rough/rocky/mountainous and you're tasked with infiltrating a base that is heavily fortified with both ground and air defences. In this instance a ground assault is the only option and heavy weapons and armour are a necessity.

Secondly, a Hammerhead-like fast attack hovercraft - Flat terrain, where speed and surprise are a greater priority than heavy weapons and armour. This craft would sacrifice these aspects for the extra speed needed. Some missions involving use of this craft could also have a time-limit/countdown clock where you must get to the main base before the time runs out.

Thirdly, a Submersible variant - as previously mentioned, such a craft would be appropriate for a visit to the Hanar homeworld (or other explorable water worlds). It could also have medium armour and a maximum operational depth, so that deep underwater trenches would be a hazard for the craft. There could also be one/some worlds with thriving aquatic eco-systems where giant and dangerous creatures wander the depths (think the sub trip in The Phantom Menace!).

The final configuration would be a flying variant. Such a craft could be used for swift exploration of worlds deemed relatively safe but needing investigation. There are options here for aerial combat, ground attack, and surprise assaults on bases lacking adequate aerial defenses. This variant could also be suitable for a space combat role where the craft is used to defend the Normandy. There is even an option for a mission where the crew unexpectedly come across a secret facility equipped with aerial defenses, get hit, and are forced to make a crash landing (imagine having to wrestle with the controls to try and put your damaged ship down safely!)

At the end of the day, Shephard and crew are a futuristic special forces unit, so they should feel like it and have multiple options on how to configure their craft and how to approach a mission.

The above suggestion offers a lot of options for Bioware. If they were to design at least one main mission and two side quests that used each configuration they could come up with some really cool missions and game moments. You could even have a couple of missions where you have a choice of approaches, and different squad members give you tactical advice on which approach they think would be best, with the final decision resting with the player. Thus, do you go for an aerial assault, a fast ground attack, a heavy ground assault, or a stealth insertion via the sub (needs water, of course)?

At the end of the day what makes games like Mass Effect great is that they give players options and put them in cool and memorable situations. I think that a key part of achieving this is by re-introducing vehicular exploration and missions, and what better way to do it than by giving the player the choice of what sort of a vehicle to use!!!

This post is awesome, I agree with pretty much everything you've said and love your ideas.

[Cancer Puppet]

" Gameplay Variety: Offensive missions, defensive missions, escape missions, chase missions,
tailing missions, escort missions, search and rescue missions, on rails and off rails missions, anti-aircraft turret missions...
(I think inspiration can be taken from Call of Duty, the vehicle levels are always part of the plot, and varied each time. Sometimes you man the guns, sometimes there are chases, escapes, manning the guns, etc.)"

This. Not all the time, but some of the time.

Modifié par Cancer Puppet, 12 juillet 2010 - 11:54 .

[danimalism]

mattahraw wrote...

[*](thanks to crehane:) Your craft is hit and needs to crash land, you have to wrestle with the controls to bring it down safely           (I love this idea, i'm imagining the fireball forming around your craft as you enter the atmosphere, spotting a body of water and wrestling with your ship to get to it, debris flying from your craft the whole time, with Joker and EDI yelling instructions over the comm. You could even have a little meter on the HUD showing your angle on entry so you don't burn up in the atmosphere)

[/list]

wow, ok that sounds amazing.

Now I really, really hope the devs check out this thread. DO WANT.

Modifié par danimalism, 13 juillet 2010 - 01:15 .

[mattahraw]

Cancer Puppet wrote...

" Gameplay Variety: Offensive missions, defensive missions, escape missions, chase missions,
tailing missions, escort missions, search and rescue missions, on rails and off rails missions, anti-aircraft turret missions...
(I think inspiration can be taken from Call of Duty, the vehicle levels are always part of the plot, and varied each time. Sometimes you man the guns, sometimes there are chases, escapes, manning the guns, etc.)"

This. Not all the time, but some of the time.

Of course! Part of gameplay variety is having missions without vehicles, too.

[mattahraw]

danimalism wrote...

mattahraw wrote...

[*](thanks to crehane:) Your craft is hit and needs to crash land, you have to wrestle with the controls to bring it down safely           (I love this idea, i'm imagining the fireball forming around your craft as you enter the atmosphere, spotting a body of water and wrestling with your ship to get to it, debris flying from your craft the whole time, with Joker and EDI yelling instructions over the comm. You could even have a little meter on the HUD showing your angle on entry so you don't burn up in the atmosphere)

[/list]

wow, ok that sounds amazing.

Now I really, really hope the devs check out this thread. DO WANT.

Oh i know, I really really think something like this would be excellent.

Modifié par mattahraw, 13 juillet 2010 - 08:26 .

[mattahraw]

I was just checking out the art of Alexander Preuss on his website after I saw this picture:



alot of people have seen it around and said it looks like the citadel. It just made me think of how cool a vehicle section in the presidium could be, it'd allow us to see so much more of the place and from a different perspective.

Then I saw these pictures and they make me want space combat even more:





oh my...

That last one makes me think about how cool it'd be to have a skirmish around the cerberus minuteman station. Think i might add that to the OP.

Modifié par mattahraw, 13 juillet 2010 - 12:17 .

[Mister Mida]

mattahraw wrote...

I was just checking out the art of Alexander Preuss on his website after I saw this picture:



alot of people have seen it around and said it looks like the citadel. It just made me think of how cool a vehicle section in the presidium could be, it'd allow us to see so much more of the place and from a different perspective.

Then I saw these pictures and they make me want space combat even more:





oh my...

That last one makes me think about how cool it'd be to have a skirmish around the cerberus minuteman station. Think i might add that to the OP.

Psst. Bioware, are you reading this? Please hire this guy to do the concept art for ME3 and future ME games

[mattahraw]

Mister Mida wrote...

mattahraw wrote...

I was just checking out the art of Alexander Preuss on his website after I saw this picture:



alot of people have seen it around and said it looks like the citadel. It just made me think of how cool a vehicle section in the presidium could be, it'd allow us to see so much more of the place and from a different perspective.

Then I saw these pictures and they make me want space combat even more:





oh my...

That last one makes me think about how cool it'd be to have a skirmish around the cerberus minuteman station. Think i might add that to the OP.

Psst. Bioware, are you reading this? Please hire this guy to do the concept art for ME3 and future ME games

Oh I know, the pics are awesome. At the same time, Bioware already has a heap of talented concept artists. the ME2 lithographs were really, really stunning, as was the Special Edition art book. I got no doubt they can do something equally or even more awesome.

[danimalism]

those pics are cool



i'd really love some awesome vehicle combat especially the gameplay variety point in the main post. but if the devs dont focus on it as a goal and leave vehicles to an afterthought (AGAIN) i think we may be out of luck. i hope not though. they just need to focus on it. I really want that vehicle crash idea someone posted. it sounded awesome.

[mattahraw]

yeah I hope they give it some love and attention too.



also there were some more awesome pictures on the site, i'll try posting them a bit later on.

[danimalism]

mattahraw wrote...

yeah I hope they give it some love and attention too.

also there were some more awesome pictures on the site, i'll try posting them a bit later on.

man that site is sweet, some of the pics on there are very dragon age as well.

back on topic a speeder chase could be really cool. Or something like cod's snow speeder escape. even something like cod's ac130 mission from the normandy too!

[HangedDemongo]

Hated the mako, if given a choice i walk.

Hammer is way better.

i see the mako in the crash Normandy dlc and say: good riddance.

[mattahraw]

HangedDemongo wrote...

Hated the mako, if given a choice i walk.
Hammer is way better.
i see the mako in the crash Normandy dlc and say: good riddance.

everyone gets so dramatic when they talk about the mako, but I think with a few tweaks it wouldn't have been nearly as bad.

It was too bouncy, to the point where if you hit a tree root on ilos the thing could flip and it'd ruin all the dramatic tension of the level.
The UNC level design lacked, but that's not the mako's fault per se.
And the pause to repair dynamic didn't work, because it forced you into cover and made you wait. It paused the action, and no self respecting vehicle game on the market uses cover. Vehicles don't use cover in real life, do they?
And on a level design note, enemy design could use some work. Moving enemies would be a good start. Enemies that go down with one shot so i don't have to circle around them 100 times is good too.

But with those few tweaks, the mako could have been great. Virmire's wheels section is one of my favourite sections of ME1, it feels great, and it looks amazing. Total eye candy. Basically my point is the Mako can be great in theory, it's just it lacked in execusion.

I do like the HH more, although it has its own problems.
But i geniunely think for ME1, the devs resources were focused on working out what "mass effect" was. With mass effect 2, they had that down pat and focused on 3rd person combat. Now for Mass Effect 3 they need to focus on 2 things: All the crazy story potentials and a decent vehicle.

As i said in the 1st post: Vehicles are the only weak chain left in the ME franchise.

I want to see them nail it!

[crehane]

Agree with you that for ME1 they may have been focused on what "mass effect" was, at least as far as storyline/canon etc goes.

However, regardless of the shortcomings of the Mako, the wholesale omission from ME2 of the vehicle side of the game was a major blunder.  The exploration of the surface of distant and desolate planets remains one of the most memorable aspects of the first game. Leaving it completely out of the second game (excepting HH/Overlord DLC) was a major blunder.

This is something they need to fix for the third and final game.  See my previous post above for details on how vehicles could be reincorporated and turned into one of the coolest aspects of the game.

What it really boils down to is whether Bioware have the time, the resources, and the "will" to do justice to ME's vehicle side!

mattahraw wrote...

But i geniunely think for ME1, the devs resources were focused on working out what "mass effect" was. With mass effect 2, they had that down pat and focused on 3rd person combat. Now for Mass Effect 3 they need to focus on 2 things: All the crazy story potentials and a decent vehicle.

As i said in the 1st post: Vehicles are the only weak chain left in the ME franchise.

I want to see them nail it!

[mattahraw]

crehane wrote...

However, regardless of the shortcomings of the Mako, the wholesale omission from ME2 of the vehicle side of the game was a major blunder.  The exploration of the surface of distant and desolate planets remains one of the most memorable aspects of the first game. Leaving it completely out of the second game (excepting HH/Overlord DLC) was a major blunder.

This is something they need to fix for the third and final game.

Oh i totally, completely and utterly agree. ME2 is great but it's worse off without that scope, size, and gameplay variety that the mako brought to the franchise.

I'm a big fan of your previous post above. Lots of good ideas there!

[Mecha Tengu]

The Mako was fine, the hell you nerds complaining about?



"BAWW I CANT CONTROL IT" - Controls were pretty easy, and required much common physics sense. If only ME2 kept the Mako and simply designed better terrain for us to drive on it would have been fine

[Mecha Tengu]

mattahraw wrote...


Then I saw these pictures and they make me want space combat even more:

in fiction there are 2 types of space combat

one with the carriers, destroyers, cruisers, and battleships firing at each other at close range, and launching fighters and bombers. Combat is at visual range, dogfighting, canons, ramming, melee combat (gundams), boarding parties. missiles can be intercepted. This combat is more fun and flashy with loads of pew pew. Star wars, gundam...

the second one, with single, medium to large ships that fire phasers. Fighters are non existent. Combat is strictly ship vs ship, and often very short involving the launch of a few missiles and some super mega lazor. Quite boring and dull really. Star trek. Mass effect space combat so far has been quite boring. I hope they will retcon it to the pew pew flashy action based combat as above.  

[mattahraw]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

The Mako was fine, the hell you nerds complaining about?

"BAWW I CANT CONTROL IT" - Controls were pretty easy, and required much common physics sense. If only ME2 kept the Mako and simply designed better terrain for us to drive on it would have been fine

Oh i agree partly, the Mako was nowhere near as bad as some people make it out to be. Same with the HH, they're both pretty good vehicles. They both just need a few tweaks, not complete overhaul.

[mattahraw]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

mattahraw wrote...


Then I saw these pictures and they make me want space combat even more:

in fiction there are 2 types of space combat

one with the carriers, destroyers, cruisers, and battleships firing at each other at close range, and launching fighters and bombers. Combat is at visual range, dogfighting, canons, ramming, melee combat (gundams), boarding parties. missiles can be intercepted. This combat is more fun and flashy with loads of pew pew. Star wars, gundam...

the second one, with single, medium to large ships that fire phasers. Fighters are non existent. Combat is strictly ship vs ship, and often very short involving the launch of a few missiles and some super mega lazor. Quite boring and dull really. Star trek. Mass effect space combat so far has been quite boring. I hope they will retcon it to the pew pew flashy action based combat as above.  

Yeah I think we're all hoping for star wars-esque combat. According to this vid @3.30 we may get it! Yay!