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Looking Ahead: ME3 classes


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#1
InfiniteCuts

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:whistle:

I'd started a thread in the Infiltrators United group asking what people were expecting from their class in ME3 and found the suggestions to be interesting in that many of them were nostalgic.  There are several new ideas on where the class should go, but for the most part it seems like people are looking to recapture something that was lost from the previous game.  I'm curious to see what people have in mind for some of the other classes?  What aspects of your class would you suggest BioWare keep or remove?  What would you have them change?  Adepts... are you satisfied with the treatment biotics got in ME2?  Sentinels... is tech armor all it was cracked up to be?  Engineers... does the tech feel upgraded or hampered?  Any and all class players (including Infiltrators) are welcome to reply.  I'd like to get a better idea of how people feel about the future of their respective classes.  I'll copy my initial feedback here to get things rolling:

Keep:

  • Tactical Cloak
    Arguably the single most useful talent given to the Infiltrator.  Not much should be changed here, except perhaps the addition of specialized armor that increases duration and allows for sustained cloak while firing.
  • AI Hacking
    AI Hacking had its uses, but seemed weak compared to ME1's version.  I think they should keep it as one of Infiltrator's talents, but give it a little something extra like the ability to give commands to the hacked synthetic, like those given to squad mates (for example: go commands, assign targets and maybe even a self-destruct command).
  • Operative
    Not much to say here. Necessary for improving passive attributes and specialization.  The only thing I'd suggest is maybe adding one more specialization class that adds something truly unique as opposed to just a play on existing attributes.
  • Sniper Time Slowdown
    Loved this.  A close second to cloaking as my favorite addition to the class.  No changes necessary, in my opinion.

Discard:

  • Incinerate
    Not really a fan of the holographic fireballs... at least aesthetically.  It was certainly useful, but could be handled much better in terms of visuals and lore.  I'd much rather they were replaced by tech mines as in ME1 (see below).
  • Ammo as a talent
    -_- Utter waste of talent slots.  Being limited to two ammo types by default is stupid enough, but putting points into them?  How the hell does that make sense?  Ammo is ammo and your experience should have no impact on their effectiveness.
  • Random mineral requirements for upgrades
    Nice try, BioWare.  Does anyone actually like the way upgrades were handled in this game?  Scanning for minerals: the primary way to upgrade key armor and weapons components?  I say they scale back on the whole mineral thing and let us upgrade armor and weapons based on purchase or acquisition.  Leave minerals for ship improvements or only the most rare upgrades.

Add:

  • Damping
    I miss having an answer for biotics, even if they weren't nearly as intimidating as in the original game.  If it's a question of balance, then I think BioWare should focus on making biotic enemies a greater threat.  As for tech... well, do enemies even use tech talents against us in ME2? :/
  • Tech Mines
    I miss this even more... :/  These things just made sense as projectiles... more so than incinerate.  They were incredibly useful, especially as traps for rushing enemies.  I was really disappointed to learn we wouldn't see them in ME2.  I say they bring them back for ME3 and offer different types such as high explosives, nerve gas, etc. with the option of detonating on impact or being triggered.  I'd take physics-based throwing over guided holograms any day.
  • Increased storm speed relative to other classes
    Might be a little controversial, but I think infiltrators should be able to storm faster (by default) than the other classes, even if by a small amount.  Of course, this would come at a cost... such as decreased shields or cloaking duration.  One of infiltrators advantages is mobility on the battlefield and they should be able to capitalize on this by getting to position quickly.
  • Thermal/Night Vision
    I'd love to see something like this added to the game... so long as they have practical applications.  That means designing missions that can benefit from their use (i.e. really dark areas, indoor and outdoor), but that can be completed without them.  Good combination of tech and combat... suitable for the class.
  • True weapon upgrade system with visible parts
    Replace the current upgrade system with one that is focused not on fabricating upgrades, but acquiring them.  I don't know about you guys, but I want to be bogged down by the choices available to me when upgrading weapons.  I'd prefer they let us customize weapons similarly to N7 armor, rather than just progressive "upgrades" that are barely noticeable.  And yeah... I want to actually see these upgrades on my weapons.
  • Infiltrator-specific heavy weapons
    I hate nearly every heavy weapon in this game and begrudged having to equip them since they are the most visible weapon on your character.  The only one I could somewhat tolerate was the Collector Particle Beam.  If you're going to force them on us, then give us at least one class-specific heavy weapon.  For Infiltrator, I imagine something like a semi-automatic sniper platform that puts you in prone position, thus putting you at a disadvantage if used in close-quarters.



#2
Kamina19

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i like all of the class exclusive talents except for singularity & combat drone. they suck.



i like adepts so....



-Bring Back

Stasis- it was one of the most useful talents

Barrier- i know the still had this but i believe that it should be the adept's exclusive talent



-Discard

Singularity- absolutely useless. worked better in ME1 but sucked terribly in ME2 needs to do more damage if they bring it back

Shockwave- not that powerful and took too long to recharge



-And keep the rest of the talents



i also like ur ideas of ammo not being a talent and adding thermal & nvg.



i think that it should be a choice to carry a heavy weapon that way we dont have to look at it all the time just so that we can kill one heavy mech.










#3
Homebound

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diggin the beat btw. I always set my Cabin's room to that song. It goes well when Im re-equipping armor pieces.

#4
Jonathan Shepard

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What? Stasis was terrible. You couldn't kill them. I never invested any points in it after my first run.

Otherwise, I agree.

#5
Zombor

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Infiltrator stuff:

Hacking was fine in ME1 when all of the story missions had you fighting geth, but it's too situational in ME2. Especially since you can just bring Tali to geth/mech-heavy missions and have her take care of all your hacking needs. Overload and Incinerate both have multiple uses (Overload breaks shields, stuns synthetics, and disables weapons; Incinerate breaks armor and stuns organics), so why couldn't Hacking have some extra effects? Hacking could double as Damping, disable heavy weapons, turn off enemy shields for a couple seconds, or something else to make it useful other than on health-only synthetics.


Vanguard:

Keep:

Biotic Charge. Charge is awesome. Aside from fixing some pathing issues, change nothing. Do not try to make it less of a suicide button; learning when you can and can't charge safely makes it that much more rewarding when it finally clicks.

Pull. Any character with psychic powers needs their telekinesis ability, so the basic idea should stay. Pull needs to be smarter though. Enemies behind cover often snag on the cover instead of flying over it. Pull should try to predict and avoid collisions rather than always traveling in the same arc. It's also a little weird that Pull fires a heat-seeking projectile; it seems like telekinetic powers should be instant.

Rework or Scrap:

Shockwave. Shockwave might be useful if it did damage to armor or something, but vanguards don't need close-range crowd control. If I want to knock a guy down at close range, I hit Charge. If I want to knock down three guys, I can't because I play on a real difficulty and two of them still have armor.

Add:

More Variety and Depth to Pull.  This goes for adepts too, but I'd like to see a single biotic power tied to a single skill that gave you more than one way to pick up and throw enemies. Nobody wants to spend points on two health-only crowd control powers, but it'd be cool to show that biotics have a general set of telekinetic abilities, not just one single trick.

Imagine that Pull puts every other ability on global cooldown, but not itself. If you Pull an enemy, the enemy flies into the air, like it does now. If you cast Pull again (on another enemy, or on empty space) the enemy already in the air drops to the ground. If you cast Pull on an already-Pulled enemy, you Throw the enemy.

E:

Biotic Fist. RyuGuitarFreak posted about this and it reminded me. Jack's mech-punching cutscene power, I want that. It doesn't have to be amazing and it doesn't even have to be a "power," I just want my hands to glow blue when I punch people, which I do a lot more than I cast Pull.

Modifié par Zombor, 15 juin 2010 - 05:12 .


#6
Xapctag

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I would love if they added a weapon mastery type skills to Soldiers. Soldiers rely heavily on the ability to use all kinds of weapons as they lack any other special talents. Instead of ammo give us weapon specializations.



For example:

Assault Rifle rate of fire increase.

Deeper armor penetration for rifles, perhaps.

Bigger spread of fire for shotguns.

More accurate pistols (ME 1 Marksman)



And the final 4 point talent could be a choice between the 4. A sort of master skill, e.g Rifle Master, Sniper Master, etc.



Just throwing ideas around.

#7
Gethforceone

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Xapctag wrote...

I would love if they added a weapon mastery type skills to Soldiers. Soldiers rely heavily on the ability to use all kinds of weapons as they lack any other special talents. Instead of ammo give us weapon specializations.

For example:
Assault Rifle rate of fire increase.
Deeper armor penetration for rifles, perhaps.
Bigger spread of fire for shotguns.
More accurate pistols (ME 1 Marksman)

And the final 4 point talent could be a choice between the 4. A sort of master skill, e.g Rifle Master, Sniper Master, etc.

Just throwing ideas around.

Awesome.

#8
AntiChri5

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@Kamina: Dude, have you TRIED combat drone? Its absurdly overpowered.



Anyway:



Soldier: Great idea on further weapon training, handled right this could be alot of fun. Or perhaps Soldiers can get some nice permenant passives? More ammo capacity for all guns?



Vangaurd: Perrrrrrrfect.



Adept: Far too much shooting on higher difficulties.



Sentinel: Lose the tech armour. Not because of the ability itself, but because it has nothing to do

with biotic/tech synergy. Something that actually combines biotics and tech abilities - in the same way that the Vangaurds Charge ability combines biotcs with combat abilities.



Engineer: A nerf, perhaps? I dont know. May edit later.



Infiltrator: Lots of fun. An set of skills which exploit the vulnerabilities of enemies. Kind of like the ammo powers, but making a much bigger difference and with some penalties for if you use the wrong one, so using the right one at the right time is very important.

#9
Guest_Aotearas_*

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Thermal and Nightvision?

Seriously, ... wtf?

Other than that, the ammo powers could/should be replaced via weapon customization a lá ME1 combined with research, so that you actually engineer your personal weapon and augment those abilities you like at the expense of those you don't favor.

The other powers are good. All I wanted is they add another powers to each class, for example throwing explosive grenades for the soldier or a biotic bubble burst for the Vanguard (essentially a biotic Assault Armor Burst) for example.

#10
Guest_Shandepared_*

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Personally I don't think any class should get heavy weapons except the soldier. I would tone down adrenaline rush a bit and compensate by giving them access to all of that big weaponry. Perhaps things like the flamethrower and arch projector could be used by other classes, but that's it. As for the infiltrator... I would like to see both sabatoge/overload and damping return. Incinerate is fun, but perhaps it should be relegated to the engineer and sentinel.



Certainly it'd fun if you could upgrade your stealth in different ways. It would be cool if infiltrators could buy a talent that gave them a passive stealth ability to hide from enemy radar. That way you could cloak, flank an enemy, and when your cloak wears off your enemies won't know where you are until you attack.



I also agree that ammo powers shouldn't be class-based.

#11
RyuGuitarFreak

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Infiltrators should have a Shadow Strike like skill. They could make a system that after you cloak if you get behind an enemy you can "melee" strike them just like Kasumi.



Vanguards should have a special melee biotic attack too. Should be fun charging, shotgun and then biotic punch the bastards to the ground if they're low on health.



Damping should comeback, specially for sentinels because it shares tech/biotic conditions. I always thought tech armor was a little stupid because it has nothing to do with biotics. It should be an engineer skill.

#12
spirosz

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Personally I loved the adept in ME2, you could go through the whole game on insanity without shooting if you wanted too and control the battlefield very well. Only thing I missed was Barrier being an exclusive talent to the Adept.

#13
AntiChri5

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Barrier was never exclusive to the adept.

#14
Arhka

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Stasis was great in ME1, at least for Sentinels(Bastion). Damping does need to come back. Flashbang Grenade was the closest we got to it in ME2, and if the devs are bundling powers together like ME1 Sabotage -> ME2 Overload, I think AI Hacking should have Damping effects too. That way AI Hacking is useful on non organics too. Heavy Weapons were a great addition to the game, but being obligated to carry one of each equippable weapon for your character was a tad annoying. Especially because of clipping. The disc grenades need to comeback, but with a better button for mapping than the back button. Upgrades and ammo I feel need to go back into the inventory/guns rather than just some random panel on the Normandy.

Power combos like Warp + Biotic and Pull+Throw are great, and I'm glad they incorporated another one, but I think Tech powers need to have combos too. If we go back to tech mines, putting a Overload mine next to an Incinerate mine should double the force/radius of the Incinerate mine and deal additional damage. This way, engineers can get back some of the room clearing ability they had. An AI hacking mine + Overload mine should provide an electrocution effect similar to the Arc Projector. Now, to prevent people from stacking all the mines and clearing out a field, the first mine to explode determines the effect. If Incinerate explodes first, then you get the double force/radius effect. If AI Hacking explodes first, then you get electrocution. Only 2 mines will supercombine to get their magnified effect.

Modifié par Arhka, 14 juin 2010 - 03:43 .


#15
RGFrog

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I like the removal of ammo powers as power slots. I would prefer that you research these ammo types and then equip them at the begining of the mission. A slot on the weapon like with ME1 but more simplified/streamlined like me2.

#16
Gethforceone

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YES! please bring back customizable guns and squad armor!

#17
SleepyBird

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Kamina19 wrote...

i like all of the class exclusive talents except for singularity & combat drone. they suck.

i like adepts so....

-Bring Back
Stasis- it was one of the most useful talents
Barrier- i know the still had this but i believe that it should be the adept's exclusive talent

-Discard
Singularity- absolutely useless. worked better in ME1 but sucked terribly in ME2 needs to do more damage if they bring it back
Shockwave- not that powerful and took too long to recharge

-And keep the rest of the talents

i also like ur ideas of ammo not being a talent and adding thermal & nvg.

i think that it should be a choice to carry a heavy weapon that way we dont have to look at it all the time just so that we can kill one heavy mech.





NOOOO!!!!  :o

Whoa man, I freaking loved singularity!  How can you not love sucking up a whole pile of husks all at once into a floating spinning mass of death?  I used that s*** constantly.  My favorite class specific power by a mile.

Floating.  Screaming.  Spinning.  Blue sphere.  Of DEATH.  Awesome.

#18
Tooneyman

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How did you get sound on this thread. Thats awesome. I want to do it. Its afterlife. I like your thread a lot!. Bioware needs to give you quetos!

#19
Tooneyman

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Also for the biotics they need to bring back lift. Where it can lift all objects. That ability was the best in the game and made being a biotic great. I don't care for pull I want lift.

#20
AntiChri5

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Tooneyman wrote...

How did you get sound on this thread. Thats awesome. I want to do it. Its afterlife. I like your thread a lot!. Bioware needs to give you quetos!


Yeah the thinking music is a nice touch.

#21
InfiniteCuts

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Zombor wrote...

Infiltrator stuff:

Hacking was fine in ME1 when all of the story missions had you fighting geth, but it's too situational in ME2. Especially since you can just bring Tali to geth/mech-heavy missions and have her take care of all your hacking needs. Overload and Incinerate both have multiple uses (Overload breaks shields, stuns synthetics, and disables weapons; Incinerate breaks armor and stuns organics), so why couldn't Hacking have some extra effects? Hacking could double as Damping, disable heavy weapons, turn off enemy shields for a couple seconds, or something else to make it useful other than on health-only synthetics.


It has a secondary effect, albeit pretty weaksauce (boosts target shields). I think something simple like upping target's damage output could be useful as well. I just hope they do away with the concept of armor preventing your hack. Hacking weapons is an interesting idea... they are "synthetic" so you Shepard should be able to render it useless even if temporarily.

Zombor wrote...

Rework or Scrap:

Shockwave. Shockwave might be useful if it did damage to armor or something, but vanguards don't need close-range crowd control. If I want to knock a guy down at close range, I hit Charge. If I want to knock down three guys, I can't because I play on a real difficulty and two of them still have armor.


Shockwave does no damage to armor? That's... odd. I haven't played Adept but I can't imagine it being much use if it doesn't damage armor. Is it mostly a defensive talent?

AntiChri5 wrote...

Sentinel: Lose the tech armour. Not because of the ability itself, but because it has nothing to do
with biotic/tech synergy. Something that actually combines biotics and tech abilities - in the same way that the Vangaurds Charge ability combines biotcs with combat abilities.


That's something that always bugged me about tech armor. Sure, it is useful and looks nice, but it doesn't really fit the class? I never thought of Sentinels as tanks so the idea of specialized armor as their power was unusual. I was looking forward to seeing how they'd mix biotics and tech... bit of a letdown there.

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Thermal and Nightvision?
Seriously, ... wtf?


lol... no love for for the goggles? We already get to sport eyewear in the game... might as well serve some purpose beyond stat boosts. Anything that enhances your HUD in some way when activated would be welcomed and might actually get more people to wear the hoods/visors.

spiros9110 wrote...

Personally I loved the adept in ME2, you could go through the whole game on insanity without shooting if you wanted too and control the battlefield very well. Only thing I missed was Barrier being an exclusive talent to the Adept.


Hmm... any vids of this style play on youtube? I'd like to see this done effectively.

Arhka wrote...

Power combos like Warp + Biotic and Pull+Throw are great, and I'm glad they incorporated another one, but I think Tech powers need to have combos too. If we go back to tech mines, putting a Overload mine next to an Incinerate mine should double the force/radius of the Incinerate mine and deal additional damage. This way, engineers can get back some of the room clearing ability they had. An AI hacking mine + Overload mine should provide an electrocution effect similar to the Arc Projector. Now, to prevent people from stacking all the mines and clearing out a field, the first mine to explode determines the effect. If Incinerate explodes first, then you get the double force/radius effect. If AI Hacking explodes first, then you get electrocution. Only 2 mines will supercombine to get their magnified effect.


^^ Sees it. Tech combos are an excellent idea, even if they don't bring mines back.

#22
Gethforceone

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Tooneyman wrote...

Also for the biotics they need to bring back lift. Where it can lift all objects. That ability was the best in the game and made being a biotic great. I don't care for pull I want lift.

Wasn't that singularity?

#23
Tooneyman

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Gethforceone wrote...

Tooneyman wrote...

Also for the biotics they need to bring back lift. Where it can lift all objects. That ability was the best in the game and made being a biotic great. I don't care for pull I want lift.

Wasn't that singularity?


I'm not fully certain. I will have to check it.

#24
bebop50

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vanguard - get rid of shockwave it a useless power had add a Biotic punch something that Jack showed would be great for Vanguard since it would compliment Charge. To me Vanguard should have so sort of powerful melee ability

#25
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Knifes please! You gotta have one if you are a soldier or infiltrator or vanguard.

Modifié par AwesomeEffect2, 15 juin 2010 - 03:14 .