155 réponses à ce sujet

[MindYerBeak]

I understand DAO was based on some book or other. If there isn't a sequel to the book I doubt the Grey Warden saga will continue. Far cheaper I would think to pay for the rights of a book already written than pay someone to do a sequel to the first part. Imoen was brought over to NWN, so we might see a return of Leliana (hence the red hair). She isn't a Grey Warden as such, and can move around the fantasy world seeking work. Morrigan is gone for good, you won't be seeing her again. It'll be a new storyline and fresh faces in my opinion. It would be nice to carry on with the Grey Warden theme, but I think it's wishful thinking.

[Sauronvoldemort]

I like Awakening.

[jesuno]

I also enjoyed Awakenings, and will probably enjoy it more when everything is patched

[Loc'n'lol]

MindYerBeak wrote...

I understand DAO was based on some book or other.

You heard wrong, the books were written after the game plot.
Also, last I checked Imoen, Sharwyn and Leliana are different characters even though they bear superficial similitudes.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 16 juin 2010 - 02:37 .

[2pac Shakur]

Sauronvoldemort wrote...

I like Awakening.

I disliked the huge hole in  my wallet

[Zy-El]

Gaxhung wrote...
Zy-El did what he (or she) could to try and pry some info, David-The Heartless Bioware Employee-Gaider simply did his job and obeyed his non disclosure contract. (Just teasing you Gaider). Of course if he was polite and said, "I'm sorry, no" then I think there would be more clamoring for a leak from everyone, I mean he could be fired for leaking any info, at the same time he has to fend us rabid sexy fans off.

Anyways, you guys saw the E3 news? Zelda Wii, 2011 baby. And Nintendo 3Ds releaved, ah maybe thats why I'm so mellow right now mmmmMMmmmm.

I'm the one Mr. Gaider said "No" to and I took no offense.  I recognized that he simply Sten'd me and was amused at it.  His response was directed at me and if I can take it for what it is, so should you. 

(I'm not directing this response at Gaxhung who makes a valid point here.  When I say "you" I mean all of you thin-skinned "lefties" who take an offense at any response that doesn't go your way!)

Modifié par Zy-El, 16 juin 2010 - 03:32 .

[bzombo]

Zy-El wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...
Zy-El did what he (or she) could to try and pry some info, David-The Heartless Bioware Employee-Gaider simply did his job and obeyed his non disclosure contract. (Just teasing you Gaider). Of course if he was polite and said, "I'm sorry, no" then I think there would be more clamoring for a leak from everyone, I mean he could be fired for leaking any info, at the same time he has to fend us rabid sexy fans off.

Anyways, you guys saw the E3 news? Zelda Wii, 2011 baby. And Nintendo 3Ds releaved, ah maybe thats why I'm so mellow right now mmmmMMmmmm.

I'm the one Mr. Gaider said "No" to and I took no offense.  I recognized that he simply Sten'd me and was amused at it.  His response was directed at me and if I can take it for what it is, so should you. 

(I'm not directing this response at Gaxhung who makes a valid point here.  When I say "you" I mean all of you thin-skinned "lefties" who take an offense at any response that doesn't go your way!)

[Rhys Cordelle]

Imoen? In NWN? Huh?

Sauronvoldemort wrote...

I like Awakening.

Well your opinion is clearly unreasonable and therefore irrelevant </tongueincheek>

[Arttis]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

I want another expansion so badly... the warden doesnt need a sequel, they need an expansion.

my problem with this would be what do i do if i didnt get the first expansion and get the second one?
Would i be able to play it?
Or would i be forced to buy all the expansions?

[KoboldKommander]

I like Awakening.

I wish I could say if I like it or not but I ragequitted (do I win any internets for saying ragequitted?) Awakenings after the silverite mine bug got me and haven't gone back to it since. Even if I didn't experience the silverite mine bug from what I understand I did the quests in the wrong order anyway.

[Rixxencaxx]

wow...so dragon age story is a ripoff of a Martin's book??? i always thought that it was a ripoff of lord of the rings story

P.S
I think that the story created by machinima for warden fall is very interesting.... i hope they will inspire dragon age 2 story

Modifié par Rixxencaxx, 17 juin 2010 - 01:28 .

[Spell Singer]

simonsteele wrote...

If you're referring to me saying it ripped off George Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, then I must laugh that because only you haven't heard of it makes it obscure. It is a world wide best selling series. It has spawned numerous spin offs and in the near future an HBO series dedicated to its story. It is anything but obscure, so much so, that when Dragon Age was being promoted before it came out the devs said that is was "inspired" by A Song of Ice and Fire.

It is a fantasy series...in terms of recongnition it has none compared to say Dan Brown or Danielle Steel.  Unless you read fantasy books the chance you would know of it is virtually nil.

The Grey Wardens are a direct rip off of the Nights Watch. Both old orders who protect the world from the Blight or the Others. No one believes them in the books either, and while they're trying to warn the kingdoms, the kingdoms are too busy fighting a civil war after the king dies. There are plot points from Dragon Age that are taken directly out of the book. Jon Snow is Alistair and the Cousland Grey Warden. The Couslands in the books (Starks) all have their own "hound" which is actually a wolf that follows them into battle. It's the same freaking story! And anything but obscure. It is well past inspiration and into the realm of rip off.

I have been reading fantasy and science fiction for now over 30 years.  Do you know how often such plot devices are used?  Claiming that they ripped of A Song of Fire and Ice is absurd.  They were clearly influenced by the story in the sense that it is a dark reality, but to actually take plot points...no.  I played the noble origin I read the book, I don't feel there was any direct relationship betwen my noble character and the starks.  The grey wardens are no more the Night Watch than the are the dragon riders of pern.  The grey wardens are to all intents and purposes any one of a dozen fairly typical fantasy organizations dedicated to preserving humanity from the "great evil."  They are similiar to the Jedi, the spectres, and cerberus...all organizations from previous bioware games.

Civil war as a back drop is new?  There was the Rebellion in Star Wars, a couple of "civil wars" in BSG the new series, Babylon 5 had one too, there were civil wars in the Lord of the Rings, the Wheel of Time, honor harrington, and numerous other series.

Dog is inspired by?  I haven't a clue perhaps Mr. Gaider will say.  I'm not sure why they put dog into the game but then again why not?  Dog is in the noble origin because dogs are central to Fereldan for reasons the game tells you, and werewolves are not a part of the Song of Fire and Ice...well not the few books of it I read anyway.  Could not stand the books...everyone I liked in them died pretty much in book 1 and when I start considering the dwarf a sympathetic character I start wondering at my sanity.

The main thing they took from the Song of Fire and Ice books was the concept that bad things can happen to good characters.  Nothing more and they thankfully toned it down...or else none of the party would have lived through the game.  The grey wardens are closer to the spectres than anything else.

Whether or not you're irritated with me, you should go read the books--A Game of Thrones being the first. Not only will you see the similarties but you'll be exposed to some of the best fantasy writing of our times.

I would suggest not bothering to read the books.  I can't motivate myself to read the 2 or 3 I have still sitting on a shelf...and I'm far from certain it is anything worthy of "best fantasy writing of our times."  But since I don't like any of the surviving characters, beyond Jon and his sister, that much it makes the books hard to read.  The bit about pouring gold down the guys throat had me cheering though.

[David Gaider]

Rixxencaxx wrote...
wow...so dragon age story is a ripoff of a Martin's book??? i always thought that it was a ripoff of lord of the rings story

If one wishes to make a superficial analysis you can draw comparisons between almost any major fantasy series. The fact that one can make such comparisons (so long as you omit anything which is inconveniently different) is nothing new-- as you mention, the Lord of the Rings comes up just as often on these forums, as does the Witcher and even the Wheel of Time. One person's "inspired by" may be another person's "ripped off", depending on how much you enjoy the parts that are similar I guess, but either way such superficial analysis is not particularly revealing is it?

P.S
I think that the story created by machinima for warden fall is very interesting.... i hope they will inspire dragon age 2 story

I agree-- I think they did great stuff.

Well, I agree about everything except the "inspire" part. Wouldn't want someone rushing to the forums to accuse us of "ripping off" machinima, now, would we? What would people think?

Modifié par David Gaider, 17 juin 2010 - 06:44 .

[mousestalker]

In the final analysis, everyone in the fiction trade rips off Shakespeare, who stole shamelessly from everyone who came before him. There hasn't been an original plot since the days of Homer.



The question isn't where did the ideas come from, but rather what did the author do with them and how well did he do it?

[simonsteele]

Spell Singer wrote...



I would suggest not bothering to read the books.  I can't motivate myself to read the 2 or 3 I have still sitting on a shelf...and I'm far from certain it is anything worthy of "best fantasy writing of our times."  But since I don't like any of the surviving characters, beyond Jon and his sister, that much it makes the books hard to read.  The bit about pouring gold down the guys throat had me cheering though.

I once thought the same thing. It is hard reading a fantasy series that goes so in the face of what every other fantasy story has done. By the third book there is a pivotal scene that will rip your heart out far more than anything in the first book.

Your dislike of the series is fair enough though if you don't go that far, but to say this game doesn't directly take story elements from the series is foolish, and you haven't read the entire series--many things in books 2 and 3 happen in the game. Such as the fall of house Cousland.

And there are werewolves in the books, they're called Wargs and they're werewolves in the more traditional folklore sense where men and women project their mind into the body of the animal. That's old norse folklore, but that is where the legend of werewolves came from. The Starks are able to project themselves into their direwolves.

Anyway, the stories are similar, and to say all stories have similar ideas is true enough, there are certain stories that are clearly rip offs. As Robert Jordan RIPPED OFF a number of elements from Dune, so did this game rip off a number of elements from a far superior series of fantasy books.

And whether or not it's fantasy or main stream doesn't matter--once a series has sold multi-millions of numbers of books it is no longer obscure. Obscure would be the Witcher series until the video game came out. Or the Vampire Hunter D novels and movies.

[MerinTB]

David Gaider wrote...
Well, I agree about everything except the "inspire" part. Wouldn't want someone rushing to the forums to accuse us of "ripping off" machinima, now, would we? What would people think?

classic.

[NKKKK]

Graider clearly has psychological problem with servitude, as it is mentioned in most of his posts in some way.

[Feraele]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

I want another expansion so badly... the warden doesnt need a sequel, they need an expansion.

I agree with Lucy,  a "tie up loose ends" expansion, then on into the future with other new things.    

*keeps fingers crossed*

[Feraele]

GithCheater wrote...

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person" ... Dave Barry

A customer does not have the right to use a company representative as a punching bag, no matter what the perceived offense.

Also, an adversarial attitude does nothing to solve the problem and can often aggravate the problem.

A better way to solve problems (in anger management, assertiveness training, and leadership communication) is not to get caught up in the "blame game":

"Attack the problem, not the person." (anger management)

www.mckinley.illinois.edu/Handouts/anger_management/angermanage.html

"Attack the System, not the Person - A Leadership Communication Concept"

http://www.self-expr...onConcept.shtml

"ASSERTION-attacks the problem, not the other person"

www.mcm.edu/~chandlet/conflict/sld015.htm

Have to agree with you Gith,  too many folks on these forums fall into the trap of ..instead of discussing the topic,  or disagreeing with a point of view, they turn around and attack the person giving the "opposing view" instead.

Which, in any thread..throws the whole thread entirely off-topic.

There are times I agree with Mr Gaider and others, and there are times I do not.    I try to shy away from personal attacks, however,  as that is unproductive, and alot of times ends up being just plain rude.   

If you wouldn't say something to a person's face (because it is rude) then why do it on a forum?     The only person coming off "looking bad", is the attacker...frankly. 

I just want to say as well,  that I always appreciate Mr Gaider's point of view, after all, he wrote the books, and whatnot for this game,  along with a team of other writers.   

So when it comes right down to it,  he DOES have a right to speak here, and he does have a right to indicate his sense of humour from time to time....like the STEN ...no that he responded with.

My Canadian two cents for the day.

[2papercuts]

MerinTB wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Well, I agree about everything except the "inspire" part. Wouldn't want someone rushing to the forums to accuse us of "ripping off" machinima, now, would we? What would people think?

classic.

wait, so who writes it and is it cannon?

[Spell Singer]

simonsteele wrote...

I once thought the same thing. It is hard reading a fantasy series that goes so in the face of what every other fantasy story has done. By the third book there is a pivotal scene that will rip your heart out far more than anything in the first book.

I don't think it flys in the face of every other fantasy story.  I have a book collection in the thousands, without taking anything away from the author I can say I have seen dark gritty fantasy before.  Some of it written quite a long time in the past.  Read some of Cherryh's works for dark and gritty as an example.  I believe I got to the the third book, and frankly my heart was not in the story since I didn't like the vast bulk of the characters.  It is pretty much impossible to read a book or watch a play/movie about people you don't like that much and enjoy it.  My running joke on Hamlet is that act 1, scene 1, line 1: "Horatio hurls Hamlet over the cliff."  would improve the play tremendously, for me at least.

Your dislike of the series is fair enough though if you don't go that far, but to say this game doesn't directly take story elements from the series is foolish, and you haven't read the entire series--many things in books 2 and 3 happen in the game. Such as the fall of house Cousland.

House Cousland does not fall if you are playing the noble origin.  You are house Cousland.  And frankly the whole "last surviving member of a noble house" as a premise is as old as the hills and twice as dusty.  I don't even see a real direct connection betwen what happened to Cousland and what happened to the Starks.  Since this spoiler free I can't really contrast the situation but I can only say that it never occured to me that the situations were in any way comparable.

And there are werewolves in the books, they're called Wargs and they're werewolves in the more traditional folklore sense where men and women project their mind into the body of the animal. That's old norse folklore, but that is where the legend of werewolves came from. The Starks are able to project themselves into their direwolves.

I gather this is the garbage that is going on beyond the wall.  It doesn't; however, have anything to do with werewolves in fereldan nor dog, nor the noble origin.  I would need to reread the werewolf codex entry to see how far from "normal" Lycanthropy the werewolves in fereldan have strayed.  I suspect that you would do better in accusing the bioware writers of being influenced by White Wolf rather than a song of fire and Ice.

Anyway, the stories are similar, and to say all stories have similar ideas is true enough, there are certain stories that are clearly rip offs. As Robert Jordan RIPPED OFF a number of elements from Dune, so did this game rip off a number of elements from a far superior series of fantasy books.

Plagerism is a serious crime.  You only need to look at the trials covering Harry Potter or the Dan Brown books to see this.  At some level all stories are similiar, that is why in english class you studied literature to learn things like how in general plots work, what are typical plot types, etc. 

It is like someone said that all stories are a rip off of Homer who isn't even the originator of the Illiad and oddessey.  This view is a gross over simplification of course and anyone who says it can safely be assumed to be aware of this.  I would never suggest Jordan ripped off Herbert except in the sense that in both cases too many books were written.  My suggestion for you would be to go to the website TVtropes and take a look at how many times things come up in wildly different contexts.  Mind you don't do this when you don't have hours to kill because the looking up of things becomes addicitive. 

Basically Mr. Gaider's comment that you can always find a similarity assuming you ignore the contridictions is true.  But the work you are comparing it to, can also be said to be similar to another work (generally older) under the same condition of ignoring any contridictions.  Compare and contrast A Song of Fire and Ice to say The Time of the Dark, Under a Green Sun, Conan the Barbarian, The Gate of Irvel, Theives World, John Carter of Mars, etc etc etc.  Then ask how much any of it resembles the Lensman series or Triplanetary or Podcayn of Mars or the Foundation books.  Toss in some cyberpunk or metal fantasy for a bit of grit...  Frostflower and Thorn might even need to be invoked.  

Dark and gritty realistic low magic fantasy wasn't created by George R. Martin.  He is just one of a long line of authors to write about a world like that.  And I won't even say he is a bad author...the fact I despise virtually every character in the books that survived book 1 is a sure fire indication he is a good author.  And I can't think of any technical issues in his books that stand out as show stoppers for me....no blatent plot holes you could slide a greatsword (zwiehander...two handed sword...longsword...whatever you want to call it) through sideways with room to swing a cat as well.

The writers in Dragon Age have been acused of not only copying other people but also themselves (in the sense of other bioware authors/game plots and characters).  Seems they get no credit for any degree of originality...even in a game with origin in the title.

And whether or not it's fantasy or main stream doesn't matter--once a series has sold multi-millions of numbers of books it is no longer obscure. Obscure would be the Witcher series until the video game came out. Or the Vampire Hunter D novels and movies.

I am afraid it is obscure.  "New York Times Best Selling" doesn't mean very much.  I would imagine Vampire Hunter D is probably as well known in the general public as would be WoT or ASoFaI.  The witcher was obscure because it was not available in english until recently.  It was "very" popular in Poland.  Much like the Schwarze Auge is a very popular german RPG that most people outside of german have never heard of.  But in all of these cases the popularity in the general public is negligable.

[NKKKK]

I don't care much for how similar stories are these days.

"All has been said"

I do however care for the direction Bioware is going, and this has nothing to do with the devs being "on our beck and call"

Modifié par NKKKK, 18 juin 2010 - 04:11 .

[atheelogos]

jesuno wrote...

I also enjoyed Awakenings, and will probably enjoy it more when everything is patched

Agreed.

[atheelogos]

David Gaider wrote...

Rixxencaxx wrote...
wow...so dragon age story is a ripoff of a Martin's book??? i always thought that it was a ripoff of lord of the rings story

If one wishes to make a superficial analysis you can draw comparisons between almost any major fantasy series. The fact that one can make such comparisons (so long as you omit anything which is inconveniently different) is nothing new-- as you mention, the Lord of the Rings comes up just as often on these forums, as does the Witcher and even the Wheel of Time. One person's "inspired by" may be another person's "ripped off", depending on how much you enjoy the parts that are similar I guess, but either way such superficial analysis is not particularly revealing is it?

P.S
I think that the story created by machinima for warden fall is very interesting.... i hope they will inspire dragon age 2 story

I agree-- I think they did great stuff.

Well, I agree about everything except the "inspire" part. Wouldn't want someone rushing to the forums to accuse us of "ripping off" machinima, now, would we? What would people think?

Hey David have you guys looked into hiring Zach Hanks?

[atheelogos]

For those who don't know who that is here
www.youtube.com/watch