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Mage spec but not arcane warrior!


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16 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Seph696

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So im pulling my 2nd mage playthrough atm and im thinking not making him a AW cause its a little Op as i have played  one in my 1st playthrough, and i would prefer a pure mage build this time.

For RP reasons i would prefer not to take BM so that means im stuck with SH which is awesome spec and with shapeshifter which i read is nooooot sooooo good.

It's really that bad? Its a simple question really. What someone could do if he would like to play not as a BM (and possible i would like to avoid AW as well)?

I hope we can work around this. :whistle:

Ty in advance (i know we have a great community :D:D)

#2
Gnoster

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I am currently running a mage (female elf).



my goal is to go the Blood Mage and Arcane Warrior way (mainly because I have never tried that yet), but if I were to roleplay her as a caster mage, I would follow this concept: Elf Keeper



She may have been born in an alienage, she may have been raised in the Circle of Magi under rule of the Chantry and Templar laws, but following her harrowing, she more than ever wishes to go for her "freedom" and join the Dalish elves to revive their sociaty. Thus she starts to practise the more nature based spells.

Spells I would concentrate on the specializations and primal / nature spells (primal is a strong damage school ofc, and the stinging swarm, glyph school is not all tht hard to imagine for elves).

Specializations would be mainly Shapeshifter and Keeper (last is obvious ofcourse and the first fits quite nice in the thought that she is very close to nature). For the last I would go Spirit Healer.



Now you ask if Shapeshifter is worth it. Combined with Arcane warrior I've heard it is very good though I've never tried it myself. However since you have no Blood Magic, I like the thought that you nuke first with primal spells, then shapeshift for the last few mobs alive. both the bear and spider are strong enough without arcane warrior to warrant that appraoch imo (I am not talking about soloing the game here, no idea if that would work).

#3
Elhanan

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If you have Awakenings, simply take Spirit as your only spec and wait for the others. Or you can use the respec to remove any unwanted Talents later.

However, you may wish to reconsider AW; just simply do not use the armors and stick with robes. This will still allow you to wield a melee weapon a la' Gandalf if you wish, and surprise the stuffing out of some foes that think they have you pegged. Combat Magic and Shimmering Shield will still be useful should that inner Druidic rage emerge.

Modifié par Elhanan, 14 juin 2010 - 01:16 .


#4
Gecon

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I would suggest Spirit Healer plus Blood Mage.



You dont need to take any skills if you take a specialization, but Blood Mage gives you a nice boost to your spellpower that I wouldnt want to miss.



Theres a mod around that makes shapeshifting a lot cooler, but I have no link of it.

#5
Seph696

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Well....but what about shapeshifter? It sucks that much i assume then?

#6
ExFalsoQuodlibet

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Shapeshifter really, really sucks.

#7
Rhys Cordelle

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There's no reason why you couldn't take shapeshifter. You can always respec in awakening. Since you're not taking AW or BM then, really, why not? It won't do much (if anything) for you, but hey, it might be interesting for a challenge.

#8
Swoo

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If you are on PC get the improved shapeshifter mod. It makes the spec quite legit, and you actually have to earn the forms via mob kills so by the time you get some of the uber powerful ones any character is pretty much annihilating the game anyways. Vanilla shapeshifter has it's uses though, although it is the weakest mage spec by far.

Combining Shapeshifter with Spirit Healer would be quite odd to play as without letting one of the spec's go to rot. I don't know if it would be bad so please don't take it that way, but you have to build up for melee combat as a SS, whereas Spirit Healer is more the traditional Mage build operating as a Cleric. I would almost say go ahead and pick up Arcane Warrior but just use AW for the ability to wear armor with your magic score, and not to worry about the more melee combat oriented talents.

Edit: And yes I know it says no AW right in the title, but AW is really one of the only specs that meshes well with Shapeshifter.

Modifié par Swoo, 15 juin 2010 - 07:37 .


#9
Weiser_Cain

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Shapeshifter is ok if you can't think of anything else if only for the boost, but my morrigan never transforms and the few times I made her do it I couldn't see how it was better than just hanging back and casting spells. That is, she died.

Spirit Healer is a must for a support wizard as far a I'm concerned.

#10
Jacks Smirking Revenge

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You could just pick specs for the bonuses, and just be a pure mage I guess. Use Miasma to kite, but shapeshifting is done pretty bad if you are on a PC I agree with Swoop try that mod out if you want to try shapeshifting because vanilla shapeshifting is pretty useless.

#11
Seph696

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Well you see i had my first mage playthrought as Aw/Bm and it was easy, no, beyond easy i must say :P.
And ofc i wanted to try a different aproach this time.
Anyway, i know that mod you saying and im tempted, but i might not as im not a fun of that drastic gameplay change mods.

All in all you gave me some nice feedback so i might have to reconsider the RPing of this char and maybe go for either Aw/Sh or Sh/Bm and try to be more "traditional" mage in the meentime.

Any other suggestions are ofc welcome and ty for the info,

Keep it up guys :lol:

#12
Elhanan

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Perhaps start the game as a typical Healer type, and stay on that path of peace as long as you deem it possible. Then rather than take any spec to fill in needed gaps, allow the story to guide you While I know what I would do, perhaps the story will lead you another way.

Enjoy!

#13
DWSmiley

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Seph696 wrote...

Anyway, i know that mod you saying and im tempted, but i might not as im not a fun of that drastic gameplay change mods.

I feel the same way.  X-president did a guide on building a good shapeshifter without mods here:
http://social.biowar...66/index/739982

#14
Ygolnac

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Shapeshifter is actually useless, the only use is getting the 4th spell and use swarm form in critical situation, but this combo only shines if your other spec is BM: u use your life points to cast spells, thus leaving your mana pool untouched. If hit by enemy you switch to swarm form and all the dmg lovers mana pool and not health.

But honestly there's not a difficult fight to use this strategy.

I have several mages walkthrough, and if i want to be a pure caster, i find more usefull investing points in spells and pick specs only for they stat boost, except some spiritual healer spell that is always usefull.

#15
Last Darkness

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Shapeshifter is useless if your not going to focus on it. Ive seen some really impressive pure shapeshifter melee dps/tank Wardens though but you want a pure dps mage......sorry but Blood mage is still going to be best but you ccould always try Spirit healer+Arcane warrior. There always the option of not taking any spec either.

#16
SOLID_EVEREST

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If shapeshifting was like the Circle Tower (actually fun), then it would easily be the best mage specialization.

#17
TBastian

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The Shapeshifter is a powerful versatility spec.So if you're playing a generalist mage (ie you take spells from all schools) then the added versatility is redundant. Most people who've replied so far have barely even scratched the surface of the specialization.

No, Arcane Warrior doesn't add much to a Shapeshifter. The Shapeshifter's forms ignore almost all offensive mods, so that leaves you with the weapon's base damage. That's about a 7 point increase in damage - that means you just took Arcane Warrior just to boost your Shapeshifter forms' damage by 7 points. No Blood Mage/Shapeshifter doesn't work that way. The Flying Swarm draws an amazing amount of aggro, so it's doubtful that you'll be able to regenerate a significant amount of HP before the form ends. In any case, the Swarm form's cooldown makes any attempt at abusing this pointless. Better to just turn off Blood Magic, use a healing poultice, and turn it back on again.

Wearing heavier armor is discouraged, unless you plan on making a str-based Shapeshifter. That build is unconventional, but in all fairness it works pretty well. To make a good caster Shapeshifter the trick is to select a focused spell selection. I suggest taking all the primal spells, or the Entropy spells. You'll also want to take a few Creation spells and perhaps Dispel Magic. Get the Arcane line - everything in it improves the Shapeshifter (Arcane Armor makes your human form tougher, allowing you to nuke/etc for longer; Staff Mastery improves your ranged attack, the one thing none of the forms cover; and and Spell Mastery gives you more spellpower, which improve both your spells and your forms). Spirit Healer actually works well with Shapeshifter, since shifting back to human form is instant. If need be, shifting back to human/elven form and casting Group Heal can be done in a second. One of the reason people don't find the Shapeshifter useful is because they don't have a focused spell selection. Versatility + versatility is pointless.

The forms' stats are spellpower dependent. So if you wanna pick Shapeshifter, you'll want to focus almost entirely on magic. This makes a primal spells Shapeshifter a very powerful character - anything that doesn't die to its magic gets killed by its forms (even your allies, but that's where Spirit Healer comes in). The forms' damage rely on its stats + the base damage, damage modifier and armor penetration of the weapon your character is currently using. To boost your forms' damage you can simply equip the most basic weapon you can find. Low str two-handed weapons are recommended, since the forms' attack speeds are independent of your own. Using a staff before shifting prevents you from missing, but also prevents you from performing criticals. A staff doesn't add anything to your damage. Few people are aware of how the Shapeshifter forms' damage is calculated, which is another reason why they think it sucks.

Your forms' toughness depend on its stats, specific bonuses and your gear. While the forms improve your survivability, if there was little to improve in the first place then don't expect miracles. This is one other reason why the class receives so much hate.
If your mage focused on +def items or dodge items though then your forms will optimize these, boosting them with its own stats and bonuses - the result, extremely tough/durable forms. Incidentally (or perhaps not), the best +def/+dodge/+spell resistance items are mage/universal gear.

The forms' skills are nonmagical. These ignore spell resistance, and are only affected by damage resistance/immunity. The forms also have many specific resistances and immunities.

Finally, like anything else "overpowered" in this game (yes, a good Shapeshifter is overpowered) there are particular bugs/glitches that can make a Shapeshifter on par with the most ridiculous full mana/stamina (bug) regen + massive sustained Arcane Warriors you can find, via the Overwhelm bug/s.

Bottomline: It's a mage. Like any other mage, it lives up to its name.
I have personally tried a Shapeshifter/Spirit Healer in nightmare and the gameplay went as thus: nuke everything in sight (basically Fireball/CoC/Flame Blast/Shock), use the occasional support spell (Group Heal/Heal/Dispel Magic/Force Field), shift for everything else (Spider to finish off stragglers, Bear to finish off a persistent boss, Swarm in case I attract more aggro than I can handle and my DoT's are taking their sweet time frying the annoying things).
There are a few interesting synergies, of course. Bear's Slam shatters petrified units, Life Ward keeps me safe while I shift, double Overwhelm (Spider and Bear) disables a boss for a good 12 or so seconds while my allies happily whack them, Fireball on partymates then Heal/Group Heal while you proceed to CoC/Shock/Flame Blast downed enemy units, etc.

Modifié par TBastian, 20 juin 2010 - 08:34 .