66 réponses à ce sujet

[miltos33]

After the latest developments the 2nd expansion theory sounds quite strong. Awakening was announced by Bioware as the 1st expansion which means that there is probably going to be a 2nd. I would love to see one more expansion released in February next year that is given a bit more time than Awakening.

[CybAnt1]

The more I think about it, I would really like a Feb 2011 expac 2 that wraps everything up about Warden 1.0 and the various story arcs in as neat a bow as possible. (I know they can't please everybody, but they can come as close as they can.)



Then ... DA 2 for Christmastime 2011 or early 2012. With an all new, full-size campaign, and maybe as I've said, a new protagonist, and maybe a new plot driver/set of adversaries.



Oh, and a expanded ruleset with more classes and some other gameplay changes.

[TheMadCat]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Expansion packs don't need the hype of a bigger game - They're instantly a smaller market. If you remember, Awakening was revealed not that long before release, so 6 months for a similar sized expansion would be too long.

In the case of Awakening the base game had been released only two months prior to the annoucement and BioWare I believe had the 3 weeks off prior to the annoucement so yeah, generally you don't announce an expansion a month after the inital release. I can think of quite a few expansions that were announced 6 months or so prior to release so again, it's not like there is a set rule. You announce something when you're comfortable and you feel the timing is best for the product.

There's games being advertised at E3 this year that aren't coming out until the beginning of next year, and if EA were announcing an Early 2011 release for DA2 we'd know by now. There'd be leaks, info floating about, an announcement to build hype and so forth. The lack of information strongly suggests DA2 is not the product hyped by the card. There is just too little information for a full length game due out in 7 months.

Once again, you announce titles when you feel comfortable and it's the best possible timing for the product and other products in your companies line up, not when you're this much time away from target release. I don't understand why you assume there'd be leaks or info if EA/BioWare are tight lipped about it, they're pretty damn good at keeping projects under wraps. I'm not saying the project due for release in early 2011 is one or the other, I just think it's pretty asinine to discount it from being the sequel simply because they're not announcing it at E3.

[Merci357]

The E3 isn't the only gaming show, they could easily announce something bigger at the gamescom later this year, after all that's a major fair as well.

[Brockololly]

Merci357 wrote...

The E3 isn't the only gaming show, they could easily announce something bigger at the gamescom later this year, after all that's a major fair as well.

Yeah, in the rather likely event nothing materializes at E3 now, Gamescom from August 18-22 seems possible. Unless BioWare just announces it on its own some time. But if August comes and goes and we still haven't heard anything? Then I'd think  a delay might be at hand....

[Mythrael]

It may also be that exclusive story EGM is touting for their next issue

[ZMJ10]

after watching a few things about TOR today it seems they are trying to make group roles (healers,tanks,and dps) which makes me a bit mre interested but it doesnt really seem like star wars with those roles. If i can recall ive never seen yoda throw a heal on anakin....

[Brockololly]

Mythrael wrote...

It may also be that exclusive story EGM is touting for their next issue

Another possibility is if you check out the Game Informer article that debunked Gamespot's claim DA2 and ME3 would be at E3, in the comments section Andy McNamara, Game Informer's Editor in Chief, says:

We should put these games on our cover or something

Could be nothing, but many big game reveals show up on Game Informer covers- DAO was on it a while back....

[Loerwyn]

TheMadCat wrote...
In the case of Awakening the base game had been released only two months prior to the annoucement and BioWare I believe had the 3 weeks off prior to the annoucement so yeah, generally you don't announce an expansion a month after the inital release. I can think of quite a few expansions that were announced 6 months or so prior to release so again, it's not like there is a set rule. You announce something when you're comfortable and you feel the timing is best for the product.

Oh, of course, but to get hype you would generally announce it about, well, now for a release in early 2011. Early 2011 fits in perfectly with it being another expansion as it's just shy of a year since Awakening and it's still within 2 years of Dragon Age's release.

TheMadCat wrote...
Once again, you announce titles when you feel comfortable and it's the best possible timing for the product and other products in your companies line up, not when you're this much time away from target release. I don't understand why you assume there'd be leaks or info if EA/BioWare are tight lipped about it, they're pretty damn good at keeping projects under wraps. I'm not saying the project due for release in early 2011 is one or the other, I just think it's pretty asinine to discount it from being the sequel simply because they're not announcing it at E3.

It's not "simply because" - As I've posted throughout this topic and a few others, there is evidence pointing to it not being DA2. We're talking 15 months after Awakening, about 7 months until the date on the card, handheld release, no real information or leaks, a statement from Ray (I believe) on a few websites stating they're working on the DA engine in January which leaves 13 months for a game to be made assuming the engine work was done in January. There's also the rumours of more upcoming DLC and possibly expansions, whether it's via small details people have let slip or otherwise.
Either way, there's more evidence showing it's not DA2 than there is showing it is DA2.

[Oronduil]

Behindyounow wrote...

I agree with you completely. Who cares about TOR? .

At a guess, I'd say all the thousands upon thousands of people who crashed the TOR beta signup server.

[Behindyounow]

Meh. They've killed the franchise with that MMO. They should've just made KOTOR 3.

[Brockololly]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...
Either way, there's more evidence showing it's not DA2 than there is showing it is DA2.

I posted this a while back in the Morrigan thread, but here is my case for 2/1/2011 being DA2, make of it what you will=]

• Look at the gap between Baldur's Gate 1 and Baldur's Gate 2; BG1 came out November 1998. Baldur's Gate 2 came out September 2000. About 2 years. Mass Effect 1 came out November 2007. Mass Effect 2 came out January 2010, again roughly 2 years. 

• Oh,but Brockololly there is no way BioWare could release DA2 in February 2011, Origins only came out November 2009! Well, sure thats when it released to the public but chances are it was done way earlier.

• Originally, DAO was PC only and was all set to be released in March 2009. Dark forces intervened and Origins was pushed back to a late October (later delayed again to early November) release date to coincide with the release of the console ports. But the fact is that the vast vast majority of Origins was all wrapped up and done by March 2009. Sure they did more QA and probably added some Chanters Board quests and worked on Shale, but Origins was for all intents and purposes, content locked by March 2009.

• To boot, we know from dev interviews, they worked on Awakening for little over one year. So imagine that the ex-pack team started work on Awakening early 2009 or so. Imagine then as well that if a vastly smaller team with vastly smaller budget could puttogether Awakening in a year, imagine what a full team with full budget could do for DA2 in roughly 2 years?

• Oh, but Brockololly, BioWare wasn't working on DA2 from March to November 2009! They were hard at workporting over Origins to the consoles! Well, sure some BioWarians were working on the ports, but the vast majority of workon the DAO console ports was handled by Edge of Reality . 

• So, that leaves us with probably most of the Origins team twiddling their thumbs until November to work on DA2, right? Surely some resources split off to help ME2 finish up or TOR, but you've also got to imagine that a lot of work started up on DA2. If DA2 production started in earnest by April or May 2009, a February 2011 release date isn't unlikely.

• Almost all BioWare sequels use the same engine too. Ignoring that Zeschuk confirms that they are working on DA2, he says in this interview it will be "super hot," which should be possible since they've got the technological foundation laid already to make it hotter in a 2 year time frame. They'll know now how to master the engine and make the content faster and better than what we had in Origins. Look at either ME2 or BG2- both games looked better than their predecessors and used upgraded versions of their engines. All the while,both games were also bigger and better than their predecessors too. 

• BioWare has got the story and lore foundation laid as well. Some might think that DAO was in production since 2004 or whatever, but they likely had a skeleton crew working on the lore for a couple years all the while working on the engine and technology before jumping in and making the game proper. 

• From a post on the old ME forums from September 2009 we know that at that point in time, writers from ME2 were being moved to DA2 or TOR. 

• EA has announced from their last 2 quarterly fiscal reports that a "Dragon Age Title TBA" is scheduled for release in fiscal Q4 2011, which is January 1- March 31, 2011. The title is scheduled to ship for 360, PS3, PC and "handhelds/mobile." Don't know about you, but I have never seen a handheld/mobile version of an expansion pack.

• It also just so happens that Awakening came packaged with a mysterious card with a bloody dragon on it with the date 2/1/2011. Hmmmm... that date lands smack dab right in fiscal Q4! Coincidence?

• And if we go to this episodeof GTTV we have a nice interview with the BioWare doctors where they are explicitlyasked about the next Dragon Age title- skip ahead tothe 17:08 mark:

[*]Geoff Keighly: So I think when people saw that announcement, about a new Dragon Age next year, everyone seems like oh thats Dragon Age 2. Are you guys going to look at a full sequel that quickly on a game or is it more sort of really expanding games out in different dimensions?
[*]
Muzyka: You know I think we said it was going to be a stand alone product, the one thats coming out later. Uh and yeah, we have more- we actually have a couple of things in development beyond that too. So there's the expansion and then there is the other one that was announced, without any details yet and then there's another one beyond that too. So we have a long range plan thats already in development for Dragon Age.

• So Muzyka mentioned the DA title coming next year is a stand alone product. That would seem to rule out an ex-pack. Could be a spin off game or sorts, I suppose too. And from that interview they're clearly working on a lot of stuff all at once. Hell, maybe they're already working on an ex-pack for DA2!

• And then of course people say, "Oh but BioWare promised 2 years of DLC!" Hmmm... the DLC claims I've seen from devs in interviews often mentioned1.5 to 2 years of DLC, like this interview with Zeschuk or this one with producer Mark Darrah . In both cases, they mention a DLC plan that goes for "basically two years" or "maybe a year and a half or two years." Seems flexible to me. Most of the interviews regarding DLC support were also from a while ago, so things can change. And remember, BioWare also said they'd give Mass Effect robust DLC and yeah, we know how that went. And if all we get is more Feastday Gifts or Darkspawn Chronicles, do you really want more of that? Really?

So yeah, thats my case for 2/1/2011 being DA2- maybe it won't be DA2, but rather some sort of spin off. Could always be delayed too. Only BioWare knows for certain.
Edit: Tried to make it more readable

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juin 2010 - 03:58 .

[TheMadCat]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

It's not "simply because" - As I've posted throughout this topic and a few others, there is evidence pointing to it not being DA2. We're talking 15 months after Awakening, about 7 months until the date on the card, handheld release, no real information or leaks, a statement from Ray (I believe) on a few websites stating they're working on the DA engine in January which leaves 13 months for a game to be made assuming the engine work was done in January. There's also the rumours of more upcoming DLC and possibly expansions, whether it's via small details people have let slip or otherwise.
Either way, there's more evidence showing it's not DA2 than there is showing it is DA2.

None of that is really evidence through, it's all speculation which isn't worth an ounce of anything. You're assuming this and assuming that which is exactly what I'm doing. BioWare has 500-600 employees last I checked, they can easily crank out a new title in 15 months, which you don't even know if it's correct as they could have been working on it long before the original title was released. And that's plenty of time to sharpen up the graphics, the length between release of STALKER Shadows of Cherynobl and STALKER Clear Sky was 17 months and it had a massive engine overhaul, implementing DX10 and completely reworking ths lighting and shadows. Games have done it many times in the past within a 20 month span, no reason to assume it can't be done again.

EA is well known for churning out sequels hard and fast, they have the financial backing and BioWare has the manpower to go into mass production mode. They have been faltering in profit and revenue the past few years which means they're going to rely on their sure things more and more. Again I'm not saying it's one or the other, but there is just as much "evidence" saying it is a sequel as there is saying it's not.

[Brockololly]

TheMadCat wrote...

EA is well known for churning out sequels hard and fast, they have the financial backing and BioWare has the manpower to go into mass production mode. They have been faltering in profit and revenue the past few years which means they're going to rely on their sure things more and more. Again I'm not saying it's one or the other, but there is just as much "evidence" saying it is a sequel as there is saying it's not.

Yeah, BioWare has the backing of EA and the manpower to churn something out quick if they need to. Thats not to say it will be as long as Origins or it won't be a bug ridden mess, but if we're solely going on time, they could do it by February 2011. And its not like EA will give them  5 years to make a sequel- they're already taking one huge investment in TOR, I don't think EA wants to wait forever for a sequel to DA, especially now that BioWare has the engine and lore established. All they need to do now is create content.

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juin 2010 - 04:03 .

[ZMJ10]

Let us not forget about The ME contract with MS they are probally going to finish that first to get it out the way im betting they have a small amount of pressure from MS to push the last of the trilogy.

[Loerwyn]

Brockololly wrote...
Look at the gap between Baldur's Gate 1 and Baldur's Gate 2; BG1 came out November 1998. Baldur's Gate 2 came out September 2000. About 2 years. Mass Effect 1 came out November 2007. Mass Effect 2 came out January 2010, again roughly 2 years.

22 months and then 26 months. DA to DA2 would be 15 months. Muuuuuuuuuuuuch shorter.

Brockololly wrote...
Oh,but Brockololly there is no way BioWare could release DA2 in February 2011, Origins only came out November 2009! Well, sure thats when it released to the public but chances are it was done way earlier.

Originally, DAO was PC only and was all set to be released in March 2009. Dark forces intervened and Origins was pushed back to a late October (later delayed again to early November) release date to coincide with the release of the console ports. But the fact is that the vast vast majority of Origins was all wrapped up and done by March 2009. Sure they did more QA and probably added some Chanters Board quests and worked on Shale, but Origins was for all intents and purposes, content locked by March 2009.

To boot, we know from dev interviews, they worked on Awakening for little over one year. So imagine that the ex-pack team started work on Awakening early 2009 or so. Imagine then as well that if a vastly smaller team with vastly smaller budget could puttogether Awakening in a year, imagine what a full team with full budget could do for DA2 in roughly 2 years?

Oh, but Brockololly, BioWare wasn't working on DA2 from March to November 2009! They were hard at workporting over Origins to the consoles! Well, sure some BioWarians were working on the ports, but the vast majority of workon the DAO console ports was handled by Edge of Reality .

Putting these together. And Awakening was bug filled cesspit of a release, what's your point? That was 12-15hrs of content as opposed to the at least 27hrs of Dragon Age content. It would require at least 2 years of development time if you're going for an hour-to-years-developed ratio.

Brockololly wrote...
So, that leaves us with probably most of the Origins team twiddling their thumbs until November to work on DA2, right? Surely some resources split off to help ME2 finish up or TOR, but you've also got to imagine that a lot of work started up on DA2. If DA2 production started in earnest by April or May 2009, a February 2011 release date isn't unlikely.

Perhaps, but how can they do "physical" work on DA2 if....

Brockololly wrote...
Almost all BioWare sequels use the same engine too. Ignoring that Zeschuk confirms that they are working on DA2, he says in this interview it will be "super hot," which should be possible since they've got the technological foundation laid already to make it hotter in a 2 year time frame. They'll know now how to master the engine and make the content faster and better than what we had in Origins. Look at either ME2 or BG2- both games looked better than their predecessors and used upgraded versions of their engines. All the while,both games were also bigger and better than their predecessors too.

This. In Jan '10, they were working on. Note the use of present tense. That indicates the engine wasn't finished, and yet only 13 months remain until the card date at that point. 13 months to get everything designed, built, tested, fixed, retrested, fixed? Doubtful.

Brockololly wrote...
BioWare has got the story and lore foundation laid as well. Some might think that DAO was in production since 2004 or whatever, but they likely had a skeleton crew working on the lore for a couple years all the while working on the engine and technology before jumping in and making the game proper. 

From a post on the old ME forums from September 2009 we know that at that point in time, writers from ME2 were being moved to DA2 or TOR.

TOR is likely going to be a much bigger game than DA2 so it needs the writers. Most of the ME3 (and ME2) groundwork would have been done in the days of ME1, so all that would really need doing is quest "lore", tweaking, cross-referencing, background checking and so forth.

Brockololly wrote...
EA has announced from their last 2 quarterly fiscal reports that a "Dragon Age Title TBA" is scheduled for release in fiscal Q4 2011, which is January 1- March 31, 2011. The title is scheduled to ship for 360, PS3, PC and "handhelds/mobile." Don't know about you, but I have never seen a handheld/mobile version of an expansion pack.

Me neither, but then again there's been no distinction made. Is it a seperate product for the handhelds? Is it of the same series?

Brockololly wrote...
It also just so happens that Awakening came packaged with a mysterious card with a bloody dragon on it with the date 2/1/2011. Hmmmm... that date lands smack dab right in fiscal Q4! Coincidence?

The press release for the anime is also dated as a 2011 release, so that is just as possible.

Brockololly wrote...
And if we go to this episodeof GTTV we have a nice interview with the BioWare doctors where they are explicitlyasked about the next Dragon Age title- skip ahead tothe 17:08 mark

Doesn't have to be DA2 to be a standalone product. Mass Effect: Galaxy is a standalone product but that wasn't Mass Effect 2. A better example would be Katauri Interactive's King's Bounty series. Armored Princess is a stand alone product but it's not King's Bounty 2.

Brockololly wrote...
[*]And then of course people say, "Oh but BioWare promised 2 years of DLC!" Hmmm... the DLC claims I've seen from devs in interviews often mentioned1.5 to 2 years of DLC, like this interview with Zeschuk or this one with producer Mark Darrah . In both cases, they mention a DLC plan that goes for "basically two years" or "maybe a year and a half or two years." Seems flexible to me. Most of the interviews regarding DLC support were also from a while ago, so things can change. And remember, BioWare also said they'd give Mass Effect robust DLC and yeah, we know how that went. And if all we get is more Feastday Gifts or Darkspawn Chronicles, do you really want more of that? Really?

1.5-2 years is 18-24 months. The time difference between DA and the "card" is 15 months. And can you honestly see BioWare supporting Dragon Age with DLC beyond the release of Dragon Age 2? Unlikely , isn't it?

As I've said, it could be Dragon Age 2. But it seems way too soon, goes against a few things they've hinted at, doesn't make any real sense and there's just nothing such as leaks or hints to suggest it is the early 2011 release. If there's nothing by Gamescom, then I will say with 99% certainty that it's not Dragon Age 2. There's been nothing at E3, so my current level of certainty is at about 97.5%

[Feraele]

CybAnt1 wrote...

The more I think about it, I would really like a Feb 2011 expac 2 that wraps everything up about Warden 1.0 and the various story arcs in as neat a bow as possible. (I know they can't please everybody, but they can come as close as they can.)

Then ... DA 2 for Christmastime 2011 or early 2012. With an all new, full-size campaign, and maybe as I've said, a new protagonist, and maybe a new plot driver/set of adversaries.

Oh, and a expanded ruleset with more classes and some other gameplay changes.

This is exactly how I view the Origins ending as well.  Hopefully this is what Bioware is planning.