9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

I interpreted Jack's "girls club" comment to be less about sexuality and more about female friendships/cliques/femininity. Jack clearly rejects conventional female gender role behavior, and clearly has issues with women who embrace such behavior (i.e. Miranda). Jack's attitude, if anything, draws attention to the fact that there is an unresolved issue with women, and it may have something to do with sexuality. She may be bisexual, but even if she's not, there is some deep-seated psychological block when it comes to women. Perhaps her primary 'caregivers' on Pragia were female, causing her relative hostility toward females after her escape.

[PsyrenY]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

At this risk of being heretical I have actually found myself agreeing with Flea.

I dont particularily like the "coloured text" option for flirting and or romance. Id prefer something along the lines of when you Lie. It goes "[Lie]*Insert barefaced lie here*".
The romance could be the same. "[Romance/Flirt]*Insert mildly flirtatious or sexually interested text here*".

I just dont like the colour text idea. Like flea said, it does vaguely feel like segregation. Or deliberately drawing attention to something. Coloured text would be guaranteed to cause another Fox News explosion "omg! you can have sex with men in Mass Effect! HOW DARE THEY!".

If the icons take off in DA2, maybe we can get them in ME3? That would solve the problem neatly.

[Siansonea]

Fleaisbackwoot wrote...

*snipped*

the problem with those "suggestions" is that having colored text would segerate the straights and the gays...it would be a terrible idea to say oh if you want to go gay with this individual then select "pink(for s/s)" to have that special long walk with tali and your fem shep (if thats your thing) or thane and male shep can have that night of passion on his last remaining days of his life or select green to remain uninterested in s/s.  that is a terrible idea...i dont want that for you or me to be FORCED (rather you like it or not or you see this "optional") to make that "option" because i dont see how that wouldnt just seem forced decision.  so segeration through the dialogue dial is a NO-GO...whats your other option/suggestion?

I think all romance dialogue options, same-sex or opposite-sex, should be treated the same. You'll know it's a same-sex romance option when you have the dialogue option with a character of the same gender. Colored text shouldn't be a different color for same-sex than opposite-sex. I like the idea of the bracketed prefix, and I like having multiple flirt options. There shouldn't just be one path to the door.

*snipped*

I have to think about a rebuttal for this...Good point, touché

I'm glad you're thinking about this, but don't be locked into the idea that you have to come up with a rebuttal. Always leave room for the option that you might come around to the idea that you might actually agree with a viewpoint you once rejected. The important thing is to consider all sides of an issue, then come to a decision about what you really think about it.

*snipped*

I would have to say that if bioware changed maleshep to that gay elf in DA:O (a game you use to defend your arguement so passionately) then that change would ruin shep's story but seeing how the story is already developed and the next mass effect game is its conclusion to the story then it would seem to be a bit out of place when those mundane desires should have been explained in the first game when they were establishing the story/characters, I personally do not see how that can be neogetiated.  (I swear if you say that "oh they will change and do anything for profits is non sense because Bioware knows that ME is a blockbuster hit and it would be common sense to not want to hurt your potential sales because you and everyone in this thread will buy the game regardless of if they include or continue to exclude s/s for males as you put it

As others have stated, no dramatic change in Shepard's personality is really called for in this situation. Shepard is still Shepard, even if it's MaleShepard romancing a male character. Shepard won't suddenly put a disco ball in his quarters, or start wearing scarves with his armor. Gay and bisexual people come in lots of shapes and sizes and personality types. There's nothing about what we've seen from Shepard so far that precludes him being interested in male partners. There are real-life gay men in military service all over the world, and these guys probably fit the stereotype of the military man more closely than any other stereotype. That's not to say that a new character with Zevran-like personality traits would be unwelcome, but these traits would not suddenly be adopted by Shepard, or any of the existing characters, just because Shepard selects a same-sex romance option. Does that make sense?

*snipped*

at last we finally agree on something! yay! thank you

Agreement is always possible! Especially if we all actually try to have a rational conversation with each other.

[Tirigon]

Gratulations on Page 100. We´re getting moar and MOAR!!!!!

[MisterDyslexo]

Siansonea II wrote...

As others have stated, no dramatic change in Shepard's personality is really called for in this situation. Shepard is still Shepard, even if it's MaleShepard romancing a male character. Shepard won't suddenly put a disco ball in his quarters, or start wearing scarves with his armor.

Whats wrong with dicso balls?

[Siansonea]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

As others have stated, no dramatic change in Shepard's personality is really called for in this situation. Shepard is still Shepard, even if it's MaleShepard romancing a male character. Shepard won't suddenly put a disco ball in his quarters, or start wearing scarves with his armor.

Whats wrong with dicso balls?

Not a thing. But Straight Shepard would be just as likely to have one as Gay Shepard. Maybe Shepard just likes antiques from the 20th Century.

[PsyrenY]

Siansonea II wrote...

Not a thing. But Straight Shepard would be just as likely to have one as Gay Shepard. Maybe Shepard just likes antiques from the 20th Century.

You could just coat the Prothean Relic orb with glitter like mine did.
 

[ScotGaymer]

I think overall the main thrust of this thread isnt just to ask for s/s romance; its not even to ask for decently done romance.

Its to ask for decently done romance across the board.

ALL ME2 romances sucked. Simply because it was far too easy to fall into them on accident. In one game I found myself romancing both Miranda and Tali when i was intenting/wanting to remain loyal to Ashley. As a paragon male shep.
And for a game thats supposed to be "all about the characters in it" that is an appalling oversight/mistake on Bioware's part.

Also I think even including the Garrus romance was a mistake (hes a turian.its been established in canon that they arent sexually/chemically/biologically compatible with humans.) And as much as I adore Tali (especially grown up ME2 Tali) I tend to lean towards the same thing for her romance too (prior canon established quarians being sexually/biologically/chemically compatible to turians so its safe to assume they arent compatible with humans also).

I wouldnt have been so against those romances if they had been well done; but none of the romances were well done in ME2 really. None.

I dont want s/s romance if it sucks as bad as the ME2 romances. I dont want ANY romance if it continues to suck as bad as the ME2 romances.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 17 septembre 2010 - 11:48 .

[Cuddlezarro]

ALL ME2 romances sucked. Simply because it was far too easy to fall into them on accident.

that was a problem in ME1 as well =/ I try talking to liara next thing I know shes commenting on how me and Ashley seem to have feelings for each other and that there might be a connection between her(liara) and me as well... (despite the fact iv been nothing but a massive jerk to both of them) and Im like WTF NO



still not as Bad as Leliena ninja romancing my cousland 5 times in the same playthrough of DAO even when I reject her every single time(even using the cheat console to turn off any love flags)

[PsyrenY]

Fit, I disagree with you strongly on two points:

Miranda's romance - it's very obvious what triggers it, and my Shep was easily able to stay in the friend zone with her without feeling like I was metagaming. I was able to say things like "The best thing [TIM] did for me was put you on my squad," and mean them, not romantically but out of sheer respect. I felt my conversations with her were very well done.

Garrus - The fact that there are so many biological obstacles to your union makes it more meaningful, not less. I'll admit I was disillusioned with Garrus t the beginning - it seemed all he wanted was sex - but his confession in Shepard's quarters indicates that his lake is far deeper than its glassy surface would indicate.

Furthermore, while I would never engage in it myself, I didn't mind Tali's romance either. She behaves exactly like I'd expect a young girl just reaching womanhood with a bad case of hero worship would behave.

As far as "Surprise, romance!" goes, ME1 was far worse.

What I didn't like was the way the LIs clam up until you do their nail-me quest. I understand they're distracted and all, but getting stuck in the "Are we going to X system yet? How about now?" loop took me right out of the game.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 17 septembre 2010 - 12:01 .

[Ziggy]

Liara romance in lotsb was really, really good.

[MisterDyslexo]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

ALL ME2 romances sucked. Simply because it was far too easy to fall into them on accident.

that was a problem in ME1 as well =/ I try talking to liara next thing I know shes commenting on how me and Ashley seem to have feelings for each other and that there might be a connection between her(liara) and me as well... (despite the fact iv been nothing but a massive jerk to both of them) and Im like WTF NO
 

Yeah they were pretty much forced on you in ME1. To my knowledge, the only way to avoid it is if you

a) Don't talk to the the entire time
Leave the oppisite-sex team-member on Virmire
c) Romance Liara
d) One, just one single, and easily overlookable, line of dialogue when talking to Kaiden as FemShep (I'm not aware of one for ashley)

Somebody at Bioware needs to realize that we don't want to have to bang them to get to know them better. Granted, that may seem fun for awhile IRL, I'm sure the charm will wear off just as shortly

[Tirigon]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I think overall the main thrust of this thread isnt just to ask for s/s romance; its not even to ask for decently done romance.

Its to ask for decently done romance across the board.

Not intentionally. But ME´s great handling of romances has certainly brought us to this point.

Because, you´re right.
ME2 romances really suck.

[PsyrenY]

Tirigon wrote...

Because, you´re right.
ME2 romances really suck.

Nah. I would like a gay option though.

[MisterDyslexo]

Tirigon wrote...


Because, you´re right.
ME2 romances really suck.

Yep. Especially in retrospect:

Jacob-Loveless booty call

Garrus-Loveless booty call, but becomes something more (the only ME2 romance I actually liked)

Thane- Making out with a dying, walking contradiction of an alien who has a dead wife and remembers every moment with her (nothing like competition with memories of a dead person)

Jack- I wanna get to know you better, see if I can help y- oh you want to cuddle. Okay then...

Tali- Need I say anything?

Miranda- I'll be honest and say I've never romanced her. Haven't even watched it either (I should get to that)

Samara- "In another time, another life"

Morinth-You end up dead. Its almost as bad as Tali's romance.

Kelly- What, thats considered a romance?

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 17 septembre 2010 - 02:15 .

[PsyrenY]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Yep. Especially in retrospect:

Jacob-Loveless booty call

Garrus-Loveless booty call, but becomes something more (the only ME2 romance I actually liked)

Thane- Making out with a dying, walking contradiction of an alien who has a dead wife and remembers every moment with her (nothing like competition with memories of a dead person)

Jack- I wanna get to know you better, see if I can help y- oh you want to cuddle. Okay then...

Tali- Need I say anything?

Miranda- I'll be honest and say I've never romanced her. Haven't even watched it either (I should get to that)

Samara- "In another time, another life"

Morinth-You end up dead. Its almost as bad as Tali's romance.

Kelly- What, thats considered a romance?

Jacob I haven't done (and can't bring myself to do), so no argument here.

Miranda and Garrus are fine - the best romances, I would have said, before Liara. KSM don't count. That leaves Tali, Jack and Thane.

Thane really only makes sense for MShep; pity they disabled the option. No woman could possibly compete (or want to compete) with the perfectly-preserved memories of his dead wife. The best I can say about him is that he is attracted to Shepard because she can handle herself and thus won't be put at risk by his activities; he also seems to get feelings for anyone capable of "waking him up."

Jack: Well, you did help her. And I could actually feel her barriers crumbling as I both refused her advances and refused to be scared away. It was very gratifying.

Tali: That she was smitten I see no problem with. I wouldn't romance her myself, but some guys like that vulnerable and less confident type of girl; more power to them I say.

Liara, I need say nothing about. The best romance I've ever had in an RPG, period, especially for FemShep. In fact, she and Miranda were the only two LIs I could feel were Shep's equal.

[ScotGaymer]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Fit, I disagree with you strongly on two points:

Miranda's romance - it's very obvious what triggers it, and my Shep was easily able to stay in the friend zone with her without feeling like I was metagaming. I was able to say things like "The best thing [TIM] did for me was put you on my squad," and mean them, not romantically but out of sheer respect. I felt my conversations with her were very well done.

Garrus - The fact that there are so many biological obstacles to your union makes it more meaningful, not less. I'll admit I was disillusioned with Garrus t the beginning - it seemed all he wanted was sex - but his confession in Shepard's quarters indicates that his lake is far deeper than its glassy surface would indicate.

Furthermore, while I would never engage in it myself, I didn't mind Tali's romance either. She behaves exactly like I'd expect a young girl just reaching womanhood with a bad case of hero worship would behave.

As far as "Surprise, romance!" goes, ME1 was far worse.

What I didn't like was the way the LIs clam up until you do their nail-me quest. I understand they're distracted and all, but getting stuck in the "Are we going to X system yet? How about now?" loop took me right out of the game.

Actually I dont agree.

I found in ME1 there was a difference between Paragon lines and Romance lines. And you only really fell into them with Ashley, and only really when you werent paying proper attention. You can clearly tell them at any point "im not really interested in sex" and they dont hate you forever like the ME2 characters do.
In ME2 often the Paragon path was the romance path but no other option except to be a bit of a jackass to them in order to avoid a romance; in ME1 the romance dialogue could award either paragon or renegade points, and was often seperate from the "friendly" paths.

And as I said in my earlier post my first play thru as ParagonMaleShep trying to remain loyal to ashley I got ninjamanced by first miranda (had to be a jerk to reject her), then by Jack (who told me to **** OFF every time I said hello to her after I said no to her advances), and I finally got invaded by the Talimance. I gave up at that point and just cheated on Ashley with Tali since the game kept pushing me and pushing me to be a slag.

I am sorry but real life doesnt work like this?

People you work with dont tell you to eff off any time u say hi cos u wouldnt bang them. They dont just assume you wanna bang them cos ur being a nice guy. People dont think the best way to get to know someone is to drop their pants and offer the priiiiizze. Dont get me wrong I like the ME2 characters but I dont like their romances.
My fav NPCs are the ones you CANT romance. Samara, Mordin, Grunt, Kasumi, Zaeed, and Legion.

Wonder why?

EDIT:
The arguement about Jack being bisexual. She is.

She tells you herself in game that she has been with both men and women. That means she is bisexual. I like siansonea II took her "girls club" comment to mean she didnt do the touchy feely girly thing that most women do.

I didnt think she meant that she didnt do girls. Cos she tells you clearly a few times that she does do girls. She just doesnt do FemShep. lol. Which is perfectly fine with me. Now if only she wouldnt do ManShep either...

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 17 septembre 2010 - 11:51 .

[Yana Montana]

Siansonea II wrote...

I interpreted Jack's "girls club" comment to be less about sexuality and more about female friendships/cliques/femininity. Jack clearly rejects conventional female gender role behavior, and clearly has issues with women who embrace such behavior (i.e. Miranda). Jack's attitude, if anything, draws attention to the fact that there is an unresolved issue with women, and it may have something to do with sexuality. She may be bisexual, but even if she's not, there is some deep-seated psychological block when it comes to women. Perhaps her primary 'caregivers' on Pragia were female, causing her relative hostility toward females after her escape.

That's very interesting observation, Sian. I wonder if Jack's attitude towards FemShep would change at all in ME3.

Modifié par Yana Montana, 17 septembre 2010 - 11:50 .

[ElitePinecone]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I found in ME1 there was a difference between Paragon lines and Romance lines. And you only really fell into them with Ashley, and only really when you werent paying proper attention. You can clearly tell them at any point "im not really interested in sex" and they dont hate you forever like the ME2 characters do.
In ME2 often the Paragon path was the romance path but no other option except to be a bit of a jackass to them in order to avoid a romance; in ME1 the romance dialogue could award either paragon or renegade points, and was often seperate from the "friendly" paths.

I agree, the differences in conversation options between ME and ME2 were rather stark - if an ME2 character was a romance option, there were often few opportunities to have any other conversations except for flirty ones. 

Perhaps this was related to the number of possible squadmembers? There were double the amount of team members in ME2 compared to the first game, perhaps limiting the amount of conversational content that could be physically included (or that the writers could manage to include - if enough dialogue was made then a large portion of the game's content would be conversations... not that I'd disapprove of this). That being said, I did find the lack of friendly conversation options (except with Thane and Samara, which I thought were handled well) somewhat disappointing. 

The fact that ending a romance in ME2 often requires upsetting/disappointing the LI is also mystifying. There were easier ways of letting them down lightly, as ME showed. 

[BrianWilly]

Wow hey...I take a break from this board for a buncha months and in the meantime someone found the Thane M/M dialogue?

Sweetness.  I knew it existed.

If only it were in the game.  I really, really would have liked to see that scene.

edit: Oho!  Thane even has male-specific romance dialogue...he doesn't call a ManShep his siha, but simply "Shepard!" No one can claim the weird "Hale and Meer recorded each other's lines" excuse -- not that that made any sense in the first place -- when Thane is the one who has separate romance dialogue.

Sorry if this is old news, but I'm just finding out about this right now.

Modifié par BrianWilly, 17 septembre 2010 - 02:06 .

[Siansonea]

Yana Montana wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I interpreted Jack's "girls club" comment to be less about sexuality and more about female friendships/cliques/femininity. Jack clearly rejects conventional female gender role behavior, and clearly has issues with women who embrace such behavior (i.e. Miranda). Jack's attitude, if anything, draws attention to the fact that there is an unresolved issue with women, and it may have something to do with sexuality. She may be bisexual, but even if she's not, there is some deep-seated psychological block when it comes to women. Perhaps her primary 'caregivers' on Pragia were female, causing her relative hostility toward females after her escape.

That's very interesting observation, Sian. I wonder if Jack's attitude towards FemShep would change at all in ME3.

I'm interested to see how all the characters will change in ME3. They've got a lot of threads to pick up in the next game, I hope they weave us a good story for each of the people we've come to care about in the first two games.

[HTTP 404]

I may have said this before but Im ok with SS romances.



The thing I am against is taking romances out of proportion and getting side tracked from the game itself. I thought there were far too many romance choices (straight) than there should have been. The romances themselves were shallow as well. I guess less and more in depth (duh) is better for any aspect of Bioware games as long as it makes sense to the story

[BeastMTL]

I still hope they include at least one male ss romance in ME3 since as a gay male, I dont like or want to be involved in hetero relationships in RL or in my imaginary ones.

so my shep in ME1 stayed single. In ME2, single.
Definitely feels like I missed content.

heres hoping for even one in ME3.

[PsyrenY]

BeastMTL wrote...

I still hope they include at least one male ss romance in ME3 since as a gay male, I dont like or want to be involved in hetero relationships in RL or in my imaginary ones.

so my shep in ME1 stayed single. In ME2, single.
Definitely feels like I missed content.

heres hoping for even one in ME3.

Amen, and ditto.

(Hoping it's Thane or Garrus here.)

[earthbornFemShep]

On the basis of fairness, I have no problems with allowing bisexual or gay players to have the option for bisexual or gay relationships. Straight players did have a lot of options in ME2, so giving gays and lesbians at least one option sounds reasonable.



I don't care if Shepard is accidentally hit on or accidentally hits on someone, just as long as we continue to have the options to back out of the relationships or correct the misunderstandings. I don't think it should be DLC (or if it is, it should be free). It doesn't seem fair to charge players for this sort of thing.