9243 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterDyslexo]

So I was just wondering, but are there any current love interests that you wouldn't want to have a s/s romance for, or a heterosexual romance for that matter?

Personally, I feel that Garrus shouldn't be a s/s romance because it doesn't seem to fit how Shepard has such an influence over him, and being of the same-sex makes it even more-so. Not saying that its unreasonable that it could happen (probably by suggestion like Femshep), but its just not for me (although I could easily just ignore it).

I also think that a heterosexual romance with Thane seems pointless. No hate on Thane or femshep, but Thane has a dead wife, and remembers every waking moment with her. Seems impossible to replace that if you were also female, but not so much if you were male. Just my thoughts

[DigitalMonster]

I have two possible ideas for a way to implement same sex romance into the Mass Effect Series.

Idea One:
Recently the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC was released because of a large amount of fans who wanted to see more of Liara in the game. Many people assume that this means there might also be a Virmire Survivor DLC. I think that Bioware/EA should re incorporate Kaidan's character as bisexual. (He was originally intended to be bisexual; link in the first post. I also believe Ashley was intended to be bisexual, but I am not 100% sure on that.) They could easily do so if they decide to do a Virmire Survivor DLC.

Idea Two:
Implement new bisexual characters (one male and one female) in Mass Effect 3. They could possibly bring up the topic of their sexuality (like Ashley brings up the topic of her religion). In Mass Effect when Ashley brings up the topic of believing in God you can say on the left side of the dialogue wheel "Me too" or "Keep it to yourself" and on the right side something along the lines of "That’s okay" or "As long as you aren't a fundamentalist."

Example:
(This is very oversimplified)
"I'm bisexual, does that bother you?" 

On the left side of the dialogue wheel:
"Me too"
or
"Yes I don't agree with being gay"

On the right side of the dialogue wheel:
"I'm very tolerant of gays"
or
"Okay."
or
"Just keep it to yourself"

Let me know what you guys think.

[MisterDyslexo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...
The only way to keep Kaidan and Wrex alive as MShep is to play through both games. A s/s romance with them would require anyone who wants to experience the content to by the other two games (if he/she does not own them) and then invest dozens of hours in a play-through just to be able to even start the romance, and that is expecting an unreasonable amount of effort from the players just to see the content.

I can't speak for everyone obviously, but I'm willing to bet most of the people in this thread would be willing to do exactly that for a m/m Kaidan romance. (Or any m/m romance at all, really...)

I already have four maleshep profiles with Kaiden, two just in case that might happen

[Wittand25]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...
The only way to keep Kaidan and Wrex alive as MShep is to play through both games. A s/s romance with them would require anyone who wants to experience the content to by the other two games (if he/she does not own them) and then invest dozens of hours in a play-through just to be able to even start the romance, and that is expecting an unreasonable amount of effort from the players just to see the content.

I can't speak for everyone obviously, but I'm willing to bet most of the people in this thread would be willing to do exactly that for a m/m Kaidan romance. (Or any m/m romance at all, really...)

Unless Bioware does something the PS3 players wont even have the option to do that. I also had a safegame ready for that to happen, but because of computerproblems I lost all my safegames and I dont really feel like doing another playthrough of both games. The fact is most people who will by ME3 wont have a safegame to import or wont bother importing a safegame. Hanging around here suggest otherwise but  you have to take into account that every poster on this forum is a fan and not just an average player.
So restricting m/m content to only those who have the right safegame is not a wise decision.

[ElitePinecone]

DigitalMonster wrote...
 In Mass Effect when Ashley brings up the topic of believing in God you can say on the left side of the dialogue wheel "Me too" or "Keep it to yourself" and on the right side something along the lines of "That’s okay" or "As long as you aren't a fundamentalist."

Example:
(This is very oversimplified)
"I'm bisexual, does that bother you?" 

On the left side of the dialogue wheel:
"Me too"
or
"Yes I don't agree with being gay"

On the right side of the dialogue wheel:
"I'm very tolerant of gays"
or
"Okay."
or
"Just keep it to yourself"

Let me know what you guys think.

Perhaps it could be phrased a little more gently - if I remember correctly Shepard's response to Ashley's religious convictions didn't really boil down to "I hate your religion and all it stands for". It's an interesting idea, definitely, but I'm not sure I entirely agree that bisexual romances need to be judged via a conversation option, unless it forms an integral part of the squadmate's character (for example, Liara's awkwardness with Shepard was because she's not human). Instead of voicing disapproval, perhaps a polite but firm rejection would do (see, for example, this link with mShep and Liara: ). 

DigitalMonster wrote...

Idea One:
Recently the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC was released because of a large amount of fans who wanted to see more of Liara in the game. Many people assume that this means there might also be a Virmire Survivor DLC. I think that Bioware/EA should re incorporate Kaidan's character as bisexual. (He was originally intended to be bisexual; link in the first post. I also believe Ashley was intended to be bisexual, but I am not 100% sure on that.) They could easily do so if they decide to do a Virmire Survivor DLC.

I love this idea, and have a feeling it's going to happen at some point in the future - though likely not with s/s romances for those players who missed out. If there was a chance to romance Kaidan/Ashley again with either gender, it would be awesome - but I'm not getting my hopes up. I'd also be really interested to see if modded characters would work with a Virmire Survivor DLC - an imported mShep with a Kaidan romance seemed to work fine with ME2's reunion scene. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 21 septembre 2010 - 06:26 .

[Wittand25]

ElitePinecone wrote...

DigitalMonster wrote...

Perhaps it could be phrased a little more gently - if I remember correctly Shepard's response to Ashley's religious convictions didn't really boil down to "I hate your religion and all it stands for". It's an interesting idea, definitely, but I'm not sure I entirely agree that bisexual romances need to be judged via a conversation option, unless it forms an integral part of the squadmate's character (for example, Liara's awkwardness with Shepard was because she's not human). Instead of voicing disapproval, perhaps a polite but firm rejection would do (see, for example, this link with mShep and Liara: ). 
 

Zevran in DA was well made actually. If you playing a male warden he hints that he does not mind male company and asks if you are ok with that, if you say no to him the romance is ended before it even starts and he never brings it up again, but you can still become best buddies with him and learn about his past.

[Poaches]

I never understood why there needs to be a double standard in potential s/s romance suggestions that require an "eeeeww gays are nasty" response option. Do people really need to reinforce their heterosexuality that badly eh.

[PsyrenY]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

So I was just wondering, but are there any current love interests that you wouldn't want to have a s/s romance for, or a heterosexual romance for that matter?

Personally, I feel that Garrus shouldn't be a s/s romance because it doesn't seem to fit how Shepard has such an influence over him, and being of the same-sex makes it even more-so. Not saying that its unreasonable that it could happen (probably by suggestion like Femshep), but its just not for me (although I could easily just ignore it).

I also think that a heterosexual romance with Thane seems pointless. No hate on Thane or femshep, but Thane has a dead wife, and remembers every waking moment with her. Seems impossible to replace that if you were also female, but not so much if you were male. Just my thoughts

For Thane I agree with you 110%. For Garrus, actually the "influence" makes it MORE likely that something can happen between you. After all, his entire attraction to FemShep is based on respect; that won't be any less for MShep.

Wittand25 wrote...

Unless Bioware does something the PS3 players wont even have the option to do that. I also had a safegame ready for that to happen, but because of computerproblems I lost all my safegames and I dont really feel like doing another playthrough of both games. The fact is most people who will by ME3 wont have a safegame to import or wont bother importing a safegame. Hanging around here suggest otherwise but you have to take into account that every poster on this forum is a fan and not just an average player.
So restricting m/m content to only those who have the right safegame is not a wise decision.

Liara already has that problem (you need ME1 to continue her romance; default Shep did not do it) and she is the only f/f option. Bioware will find a way around it; they want the PS3 crowd to enjoy Lair.

[PsyrenY]

Poaches wrote...

I never understood why there needs to be a double standard in potential s/s romance suggestions that require an "eeeeww gays are nasty" response option. Do people really need to reinforce their heterosexuality that badly eh.

I don't think it should be that strong. ME1's "But I'm female!" followed by the option to accept or reject the advance is probably the most tactful way to handle it.

[ElitePinecone]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Poaches wrote...

I never understood why there needs to be a double standard in potential s/s romance suggestions that require an "eeeeww gays are nasty" response option. Do people really need to reinforce their heterosexuality that badly eh.

I don't think it should be that strong. ME1's "But I'm female!" followed by the option to accept or reject the advance is probably the most tactful way to handle it.

Definitely. Tact is the key - and I think that although it's not my preferred option, it would work, and should be implemented, if needed (for example, if it was seen as the easiest way to introduce s/s romances). In the same vein that all players can now reject (tactfully) romance invitations from squadmates, a similar system should naturally be implemented for any s/s romance options - but I would hesitate to advocate an "ewww!" dialogue option. Hardly tactful or realistic. 

This does bring me back to a related question though: this conundrum would be avoided somewhat if it were the player who instigated romances through [Flirt] or [Romance] dialogue, perhaps with an option to [Ignore Romance] if players have no intention of ever flirting with the character in question. It would solve problems of exposure to teh gay (or teh straight, for some) and give more choice to players rather than having a romance ninja'd or thrust in their face. 

Edit:

We posted at the same time, but I totally agree:

Brodyaha wrote...

I mean, if BW just includes a dialogue option that says, "not interested/no thank you," for LIs who express interest, then that should do.  No need to get mean about it.

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 21 septembre 2010 - 01:20 .

[Quething]

Eh. My Thane-loving femShep doesn't really care about Irikah; it's not like she loves the Liara she used to know any less dearly. And being haunted by his past is pretty much what draws her to Thane in the first place, that he's as chained to his sins and his need to repent as she is (paragade Butcher of Torfan). Admittedly that's a fairly specific situation, and I can't think of any other Shep I've ever played who'd go near drell!Carth romantically, I'm just saying, plausible reasons for a femShep/Thane romance despite the dead wife do exist.

Garrus I agree, I can't see him with maleShep, but I can't actually see him with femShep either, so that one's a wash, it's just as odd to me either way.

Other than that, I can't actually think of a LI who I wouldn't find a reasonable choice for a s/s romance. It helps that so little of the franchise is actually gender-segregated, so femShep is constantly getting lines and intonations of reply that were written with maleShep in mind (and to some extent vice versa). Though really there's no excuse for that awesomely subtexty "Dismissed, Chief"/"Ma'am" exchange in ME1, both of those were gender specific from the start.

[Siansonea]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...
The only way to keep Kaidan and Wrex alive as MShep is to play through both games. A s/s romance with them would require anyone who wants to experience the content to by the other two games (if he/she does not own them) and then invest dozens of hours in a play-through just to be able to even start the romance, and that is expecting an unreasonable amount of effort from the players just to see the content.

I can't speak for everyone obviously, but I'm willing to bet most of the people in this thread would be willing to do exactly that for a m/m Kaidan romance. (Or any m/m romance at all, really...)

I already have four maleshep profiles with Kaiden, two just in case that might happen

All three of my MaleSheps saved Kaidan (they all romanced Liara in ME1, one stayed true in ME2, the others romanced Jack and Miranda). Only one of them would go for Kaidan, though. Coincidenatlly enough that one is my Sentinel. He totally would have gone for Kaidan in the first game, but Liara seemed much more receptive, so he went for it. He bonded with Miranda and they had some laughs in ME2, but it's not everlasting love or anything. Kaidan would be something else entirely though, he could tell there was something there, but for whatever reason things didn't work out that way.

[Siansonea]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

So I was just wondering, but are there any current love interests that you wouldn't want to have a s/s romance for, or a heterosexual romance for that matter?

Personally, I feel that Garrus shouldn't be a s/s romance because it doesn't seem to fit how Shepard has such an influence over him, and being of the same-sex makes it even more-so. Not saying that its unreasonable that it could happen (probably by suggestion like Femshep), but its just not for me (although I could easily just ignore it).

I also think that a heterosexual romance with Thane seems pointless. No hate on Thane or femshep, but Thane has a dead wife, and remembers every waking moment with her. Seems impossible to replace that if you were also female, but not so much if you were male. Just my thoughts

I personally don't really care for non-asari alien romances. Especially turians and quarians, what with their toxic organic chemistry. It just beggars belief that their pheremones would be at all compatible with humans, I imagine one whiff of a turian or quarian, and the human monkey brain would simply say "Nope, don't wanna hit dat". You could still be very good friends with a turian or quarian, but getting frisky seems like a stretch to me. To some extent I feel the same way about drell, but at least they don't have that dextro-amino-acid incompatibility issue.

Asari are unique in that they are naturally xenophilic, so it stands to reason that their pheremones would not turn off a human, and indeed might appeal to humans who aren't normally attracted to females. I could see previously hetersexual women and homosexual men being attracted to asari, not just people who like human females already. The virtually asexual salarians even find asari compelling.

Personally, I think same sex human romances are preferable to alien romances, since alien romances have some inherent "technicalities" that can be exploited by pundits for both sides of the issue to skirt the issue of homosexuality altogether (the "asari aren't female, so FemShep isn't a lebanese" trope). Humans are more attractive to me than any of the aliens anyway, I guess I'm homospeciesist.

[Poaches]

I think between pheromones or outright mind control is still up for debate as far as asaris' are concerned; I believe Mordin actually makes note of this. Evidence tends to lean towards mind control in my opinion.



But I tend to agree that turians and quarians are really off in a lot of ways. Both have a tendency to cause "allergic reaction and/or death" in humans. Tali even moreso, but apparently has plot vaccine that handwaves/retcons the whole quarian sealed suit thing out of existence.

[Quething]

Well, honestly, the sealed suit thing is a retcon itself. There was nothing in ME1 to suggest that quarian envirosuits were any different from volus envirosuits, or that the suits had anything to do with immune systems at all, or were worn in quarian-tailored environments. Tali even mentions never having seen her father smile, which no longer makes sense in ME2 when she says she's never seen his face because he wouldn't take the sick leave. So I have no issue with the Tali/Shepard romance sidestepping the Flanderized severity of quarian immune deficiency.

I can't even remember who my maleShep saved, it's been so long since I've played him. He's the type to have gone for Kaiden if he could have, though. And I would, honestly, be okay with Kaiden being the only male s/s romance even though he's dead by default in ME2 (likewise Ash as the only not-hiding-behind-monogendered-bullspit f/f romance); it would be less than perfectly inclusive, yes, but a) these are at least characters that have established character and who we know will be treated well, and Gibbed works on all platforms, so you'd only actually be forcing people to play two games. Though if BioWare is smart, they'll release a small savegame app of their own for ME3 and make the point entirely moot.

Modifié par Quething, 21 septembre 2010 - 10:05 .

[DigitalMonster]

ElitePinecone wrote...




Perhaps it could be phrased a little more gently - if I remember correctly Shepard's response to Ashley's religious convictions didn't really boil down to "I hate your religion and all it stands for". It's an interesting idea, definitely, but I'm not sure I entirely agree that bisexual romances need to be judged via a conversation option, unless it forms an integral part of the squadmate's character (for example, Liara's awkwardness with Shepard was because she's not human). Instead of voicing disapproval, perhaps a polite but firm rejection would do (see, for example, this link with mShep and Liara: ). 

I definately agree, I was just trying to oversimplify the response. But I totally agree with you that it shouldn't say "oh I hate you because of that" or anything but should be done more gently. I also think it would be a possible idea to instead just say something similar to what you say to Liara as you mentioned. Shepard could say something along the lines of "Sorry Im not interested in you." I honestly wish there was an option to say that to all of the potential romances who you do not want to romance and instead can have the option of just being friends with them.

[MisterDyslexo]

The DADT repeal failed, which sucks, but at least now I can find some solace in seeing the eventual person on this thread who says "Well they haven't gotten rid of it now, so whats to say they get rid of it then?" as their argument. Brings on the trolls

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 22 septembre 2010 - 12:26 .

[ElitePinecone]

Quething wrote...
I can't even remember who my maleShep saved, it's been so long since I've played him. He's the type to have gone for Kaiden if he could have, though. And I would, honestly, be okay with Kaiden being the only male s/s romance even though he's dead by default in ME2 (likewise Ash as the only not-hiding-behind-monogendered-bullspit f/f romance); it would be less than perfectly inclusive, yes, but a) these are at least characters that have established character and who we know will be treated well, and Gibbed works on all platforms, so you'd only actually be forcing people to play two games. Though if BioWare is smart, they'll release a small savegame app of their own for ME3 and make the point entirely moot.

By Gibbed you mean the save editor? I wasn't aware it could be used on Xbox versions...?

I agree that Bioware should release a savegame app for ME3 - given the number of new players that they're going to want to attract, they'd almost need to. The only possible difficulty with that is that if, as expected, over 1000 decisions or 'flags' are imported into ME3, it would need to be a pretty comprehensive save editor... and rather tedious to wade through minor plot or quest decisions just to have an ME3 outcome. If we're talking just 'major' decisions and romance options, then I'm all for it. Ultimate preference though is for an opportunity to re-romance the Virmire survivor with a Shep of the same gender, which could then be carried into ME3 - but I'm hardly optimistic. 

[JockBuster]

Quething wrote...
snip
I can't even remember who my maleShep saved, it's been so long since I've played him. He's the type to have gone for Kaiden if he could have, though. And I would, honestly, be okay with Kaiden being the only male s/s romance even though he's dead by default in ME2 (likewise Ash as the only not-hiding-behind-monogendered-bullspit f/f romance); it would be less than perfectly inclusive, yes, but a) these are at least characters that have established character and who we know will be treated well, and Gibbed works on all platforms, so you'd only actually be forcing people to play two games. Though if BioWare is smart, they'll release a small savegame app of their own for ME3 and make the point entirely moot.

I ALWAYS save Kaidan  @ the bomb as a MaleShep (even when I romance Liara, no pic in ME2) or (female impersonator) FemShep (always loyal, no cheating in ME2); just to see where all this goes in ME3.
I've said it before ALL the data points are available to BW devs to implement a s/s option in ME3:
1) ME1, MaleShep (FemShep) saves Kaidan (Ashley) and does NOT romance Liara.
2) ME2, MaleShep/FemShep stays loyal to ME1, ie stays celibate and romances no one.
The ONE thing this does not cover is ME1 MaleShep can NOT RENEGADE Kaidan, which gives him a whole NEW forceful personality, which is most unfortunate since the devs tied the Renegade to FemShep romance pompadour achievement.
Only those interested in a human s/s romance would pick these options, ie str8s, h*phobes etc would (normally) NOT choose them, bis swing both ways so not an issue. Those interested in a human romance would be MaleShep & Ashley or Liara, or a FemShep Kaidan or Liara. No changes, colors etc would be required to the dialogue wheel because the option would already BE s/s human or NOT. IF 1 AND 2 are met then human s/s, if only ONE is met then human s/s is NOT an option in ME3, and yes this means that MaleShep can ONLY have a s/s with Kaidan and FemShep with Ashley, but that is a whole lot easier than multiple choices and all the baggage, flames (I want X but not Y) etc that would go along with it.
Male Shepard:
He's a young, virile MARINE and FULL of Testosterone (he does have THE biggest PAIR in the galaxy). And if he gets horny, he is going to seek relief where ever, with whoever (male/female/alien) he can to satisfy his urges. The issue in ME 1 & 2 is that; there is no HUMAN s/s option, only hetero human or with an alien. No one is saying that Shepard is gay nor a lesbian.
What if Shepard is Bi, so what? Issue solved, it is an OPTION, if you take it fine, if you DON'T fine, that is YOUR option, but DON'T deny others the option to not even HAVE that option. That is very different than being denied the option to choose. It's a GAME, how you apply it to your personal 'real life' is your business NOT mine nor anyone else's.
I don't try to force my choices on others, do NOT try to force your choices on me, "You won't like what happens!"

Modifié par JockBuster, 22 septembre 2010 - 03:19 .

[Siansonea]

I wonder how many s/s supporters are Kaidan and Liara fans? I sure am. They were my go-to squad in the first game. The final fight with Sovereign/Saren was always a cakewalk, because it would be Lift/Shootshootshoot/Lift/Shootshootshoot/Lift/Shootshootshoot and no more Sovvy. He can't leap around and he can't shoot back, it's hilarious. And when I play as an adept it's even more of a fish-in-a-barrel scenario. Of course, their combat utility aside, Kaidan and Liara are just the personalities I like the best in the first game, they're both approachable, reasonable, and have a sort of kindness about them that is not present with the others. Ashley is brittle and has a chip on her shoulder, Garrus is rather taciturn, and just yammers away about how stifling C-Sec is, Tali is a walking encyclopedia of All Things Geth, and Wrex should have "badassss" painted on his crest. Liara and Kaidan just chat with Shep about this and that. No drama, no agenda, just open minds and calm, soothing words. I really missed that in ME2, though Samara, Thane, and Mordin were my favorites to talk to, especially Samara.



I'd be interested in knowing how many MaleShep-saves-Kaidan and FemShep-saves-Ashley imports were counted in BioWare's game telemetry gathering. I wonder if BioWare realizes that these characters really do have a strong following. I would throw out half the ME2 crew just to have them and Liara back.

[FataliTensei]

Siansonea II wrote...

 I wonder if BioWare realizes that these characters really do have a strong following. I would throw out half the ME2 crew just to have them and Liara back.

Me too, I'd get rid of everyone except Samara, Mordin, Leigon and Kasumi to get them back.

[Siansonea]

FataliTensei wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

 I wonder if BioWare realizes that these characters really do have a strong following. I would throw out half the ME2 crew just to have them and Liara back.

Me too, I'd get rid of everyone except Samara, Mordin, Leigon and Kasumi to get them back.

I'd prolly keep Thane, Garrus and Miranda as well, and I'd probably sacrifice Kasumi. Mainly because she has so little dialogue outside of her loyalty mission. But Tali, Grunt, Jack, Jacob, and Zaeed aren't nearly as compelling to me as my fave ME1 peeps.

[JockBuster]

Siansonea II wrote...
snip
I'd be interested in knowing how many MaleShep-saves-Kaidan and FemShep-saves-Ashley imports were counted in BioWare's game telemetry gathering. I wonder if BioWare realizes that these characters really do have a strong following.  ...

BW only collected data from ME2, I am not aware of them collecting data from ME1; that technology was developed later plus MS had the rights to ME1. But it would be interesting to know. BW would have info from ME2 for anyone who imported a ME1 save game, VS and romance. NG default is opposite sex, Fem gets Kaidan & Male gets Ashley and nobody gets Liara, that is why a lot of first time players get mad & confused about Horizon, no background. LofSB would only serve to confuse them more about Liara's role. We'll have to wait and see how all this plays out in ME3. I'm sure that'll be interesting to say the least.

[Matthewrs7]

I just bought ME2 for my PC. Garrus is my favorite chatacter and I was really hoping to have my male Sheppard have a relationship with him. But when I found out that ME2 still doesnt allow it, it was a dissappointment to me,

Sure the game is still amazing. But I am surprised to see how many people are also wanting same sex options.

Many people are saying things like "ohh here we go again..." about the whole deal but that is kind of annoying because fans of games always say what they think should be in a game and developers commonlt claim to listen to the fans.

So...if so many fans are wanting this, why hasn't Bioware stood up to accomidate the section of the fans that is large.