9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Top55]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Can't we just make an asari choose whether to go in a boys or girls bathroom and end this debate for good?

This is why. 
www.vgcats.com/comics/

[Valakas]

Ryzaki wrote...


THERE IS NO CANON SHEPARD.

There is a "Default" Shepard. Not a Canon Shepard.

There. is. no. canon. Shepard.

Period.

There's a default Shepard that you see in the advertisments. But he's pratically a placeholder. He is *not* canon.

Gah. Where's that quote when I need it!

Default or canon Shepard, whatever, call it however you like

[Ryzaki]

Valakas wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...


THERE IS NO CANON SHEPARD.

There is a "Default" Shepard. Not a Canon Shepard.

There. is. no. canon. Shepard.

Period.

There's a default Shepard that you see in the advertisments. But he's pratically a placeholder. He is *not* canon.

Gah. Where's that quote when I need it!

Default or canon Shepard, whatever, call it however you like

Well I'm obviously wasting time if you can't tell the difference between a default and something that is canon.

[FataliTensei]

Valakas wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...


THERE IS NO CANON SHEPARD.

There is a "Default" Shepard. Not a Canon Shepard.

There. is. no. canon. Shepard.

Period.

There's a default Shepard that you see in the advertisments. But he's pratically a placeholder. He is *not* canon.

Gah. Where's that quote when I need it!

Default or canon Shepard, whatever, call it however you like

...................I am amazed

[Ares Caesar]

Just chiming in to the original topic

1) I support DEEPER & more DEVELOPED love interests - Its as if loyalty = a free pass into the pants of any character. If it was that easy to score, sign me up for a trip to the future.

2) I support hetero/******/bi sexual choices for love interests - I am not gay, nor would I ever likely even choose a homosexual love interest, but I dont think it shouldnt be an option for those who want it.
***The ONLY reason I would be against it, is if it were to require many more lines of dialog and animations thus limiting the amount of other gameplay/story aspects (which I probably actually care more about than the love interests in general)***

3) I HIGHLY support the color coded dialog choices that indicate flirting and insulting(and similar actions) to make it clear before you choose a path.

So count me as a supporter of the "Fight for the Love"

Modifié par Ares Caesar, 25 septembre 2010 - 11:32 .

[Valakas]

Ryzaki wrote...

Well I'm obviously wasting time if you can't tell the difference between a default and something that is canon.

Woah you people get pissed off way to easy, and i wasn't even trying to troll.

Just take it easy

[elearon1]

Deeper and More Developed - I highly agree. The LofSB DLC was so great in dealing with your relationship with Liara because it did make it seem more real, more developed. Your interactions with Liara say "this is a person I am familiar with" and as such your intimacy scene back at the ship feels more meaningful and realistic than any of the other romances in the game.

[Valakas]

Ryzaki wrote...

Well I'm obviously wasting time if you can't tell the difference between a default and something that is canon. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Woah you people get pissed off way to easy, and i wasn't even trying to troll.

Just take it easy [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Ares Caesar wrote...

1) I support DEEPER & more DEVELOPED love interests - Its as if loyalty = a free pass into the pants of any character. If it was that easy to score, sign me up for a trip to the future.
 

I agree wholehearttedly to this.

It's like the whole romance stuff on ME it's just talking, cheap flirting and sex, which is incredibly lame to say the least.


Just look at romance scenes in other games (FF X, to say an example), i would like to see Shepard and his romance option doing more stuff, eating dinner, talking during misisons, SOMETHING, and i would like to see my romance choice to take a bigger role in the MAIN storyline.

A lot of people are going to hate me after this, but right now romances in ME are mediocre at best.

[Ryzaki]

Valakas wrote...

Woah you people get pissed off way to easy, and i wasn't even trying to troll.

Just take it easy [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

I'm not pissed just laughing at your obliviousness to the fault in your logic.

[elearon1]

I never got the chance to romance the people I wanted to in the FF games, though. That is part of the issue with ME2 - I was never given the option to romance people *I* fealt *my* Shepard would have been attracted to; instead my options were limited to who the writers fealt I should be attracted to. Which in this case meant no same sex romances.

[Ryzaki]

elearon1 wrote...

I never got the chance to romance the people I wanted to in the FF games, though. That is part of the issue with ME2 - I was never given the option to romance people *I* fealt *my* Shepard would have been attracted to; instead my options were limited to who the writers fealt I should be attracted to. Which in this case meant no same sex romances.

Final Fantasy games? Romance? 

I say that as someone who *likes* most of the FF games. Most of their romances was terrible. The only one I found semi decent was Tidus/Yuna.

[Valakas]

elearon1 wrote...

 romance people *I* fealt *my* Shepard would have been attracted to; 

Ok man, sorry but this is idiotic.

"Your" shepard can't be atracted to anyone; you now why? Because "your" shepard it's a videogame character and what he does, it's prescripted by the developers, YOU are the one atracted to those characters (let's say, Thane), not shepard. And if Bioware already stated that male Shepard it's NOT gay (or does not engage in gay behavior), no matter who are you atracted to, "Your" shepard won't respond.


Now if you really would like to get in Thane's pants no matter what, then i don't see what's wrong with playing as a woman, you still get to romance Thane (the one you like) and the devs don't risk their game being the target of mockery and bad publicity like it happened to Dragon age, which is most likely the main reason the do not include gay romances in ME.

The bad publicity hurts a game more than you think, i recomended Dragon Age several times to friends and they were like:

- Isn't that game the one that lets you sleep with the gay elf dude? I'm not gay man.

- Errrm, yes, but it's optional you are not forced to....

- Naaaaa, i don't think so.

And this hapened like three times, no kidding.

Everybody wins, and you get to play as a woman (i'm not sure about this, but don't most gay men would like to be women?, not sure how a gay person mind works, just checking, correct me if i'm wrong).



And this comment it's not intended to be sexist, homofobic or anything, just to be clear. <_<

Modifié par Valakas, 26 septembre 2010 - 01:19 .

[elearon1]

BS.

My female Shepard has no romantic interest in Thane no matter what my opinions of him - because she doesn't like men. Likewise, my male Shep is not interested in Tali, though she is the not so secret crush of my femshep. (and personally *I* think both Thane and Tali are awesome - it disappoints me that I'll never get to romance either with the characters I've played)  

When I make a new character, I devise a personality for them, along with sexual preference, opinion on aliens, opinions about politics/religion, etc. These are rarely the same between any two characters - as that is what they are, characters.

Perhaps if you have no experience roleplaying in pen and paper games you can't understand the idea of a character having opinions and tastes that differ from your own - but in my 20 years of doing so I have played characters who have differed from me in some very dramatic ways. Some of those have been people I could never have even stood in the same room with, but they were very interesting to rp.

It is much the same as an actor playing a role - while the actor brings a little of himself into each role, the opinions of their characters are rarely their opinions. The people an actor's characters romance need not be attractive to the performer at all; but the *character* is different.

>>I'm not sure about this, but don't most gay men would like to be women?

No, the majority of gay men do not want to be women, they want to be men who are sexually attracted to and attractive to other men. What you are thinking of is transgender, which is a very different occurrence. (there can be some overlap but doesn't have to be - there are numerous occasions of people having sex changes only to date members of what would have been the opposite sex; thus women who become men but still date men, or men who become women but still date women)

Modifié par elearon1, 26 septembre 2010 - 01:35 .

[elearon1]

>>Now if you really would like to get in Thane's pants no matter what, then i don't see what's wrong with playing as a woman, <<



Because that forces me to play a heterosexual character - which demonstrates a complete lack of respect for my own personal preferences. How would you feel if Shepard were gay and the only relationships he was allowed to have in game were with other men? You might well try it (or not), but you'd also be disappointed that your Shepard would never be able to experience the world from a frame of reference you are more comfortable with.



I have played both hetero and homosexual *characters* of both sexes in game, but always when I play a homosexual I am reminded that character is not supported, and thus marginalized in the story.



And just to address your other issue again - I have never romanced Tali or Thane in my heterosexual playthroughs because it would have seemed wrong when the Sheps I was most attached to were not able to do so. (got attached to my first Shep of each sex, while those that followed were fun but I won't likely bother transferring their saves into ME3)

[ElitePinecone]

Valakas wrote...
Everybody wins, and you get to play as a woman (i'm not sure about this, but don't most gay men would like to be women?, not sure how a gay person mind works, just checking, correct me if i'm wrong).



And this comment it's not intended to be sexist, homofobic or anything, just to be clear. <_<

You're confusing Gender identity disorder with homosexuality. They are extremely different things.

So no, we can't romance Thane as a femShep and call it a gay romance.

Your anecdotes about gay romances in Dragon Age hurting sales don't necessarily match up with reality. As one of the Dragon Age developers remarked (unfortunately I can't find the quote), you'd be surprised just how many people pursued the male Warden/Zevran romance. People are generally less prejudiced than you give them credit for.

I can't claim to know Bioware's position on same-sex romances in Mass Effect - firstly, because I'm not psychic, and secondly because they steadfastly refuse to confirm or deny any reasons for including or excluding them. With respect, that's what this thread is for. We have no delusions or false hopes, except to suggest that this thread being here raises the profile of our request and provides a forum to discuss the problems and questions civilly.

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 26 septembre 2010 - 02:54 .

[MisterDyslexo]

[quote]Valakas wrote...

The bad publicity hurts a game more than you think, i recomended Dragon Age several times to friends and they were like:

- Isn't that game the one that lets you sleep with the gay elf dude? I'm not gay man.

- Errrm, yes, but it's optional you are not forced to....

- Naaaaa, i don't think so.

And this hapened like three times, no kidding.
[/quote]

First of all, if that was enough to keep them fromo buying the game, they probably wouldn't have gotten it in the first place, or gone "this isn't for me" in the first ten minutes (no offense to you or them, but thats seems to be how it is with games involving choice). Second, there's the saying "Any publicity is good publicity". Thats honestly how a lot of people hear about games. That Fox News segment has helped Mass Effect sales in the long run (not to mention the fact that lots of those people would've gotten ME2).


[/quote]Valakas wrote...
Everybody wins, and you get to play as a woman (i'm not sure about this, but don't most gay men would like to be women?, not sure how a gay person mind works, just checking, correct me if i'm wrong).

And this comment it's not intended to be sexist, homofobic or anything, just to be clear. <_<
[/quote]

Personally I don't mind playing FemShep (its role-playing, so you have to make a role), but I'm sure that there are plenty of people out there thats it ruins it for. And as it was said before, no most gay men do not want to be like women. That is something else entirely. Just so we're clear. Hopefully you're good on that now

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 26 septembre 2010 - 03:37 .

[Ares Caesar]

Again, personally I support the ability to pursue same sex relationships in Mass Effect (despite the fact I'd probably only do chick on chick love, yes as the guy fantasy, which I also realize usually in real life 2 chicks means just that... 2 chicks, not 2 chicks+you, heh)



However, I think a possible issue for NOT having them is that the already established story does not seem to be accepting of same sex relationships for many cultures (given that they did address it with Asari-not that they should count as its all 1 sex-), now to be fair it also wasnt necessarily heavily addressed either, so its not as if they've shot down the idea totally.



I guess my point is, just as Bioware constantly likes to remind us of racism being an issue even many years in the future between different species(which I think is actually likely and realistic in expectation), perhaps the lack of same sex love interest is also a reference to the bias cultures have towards it as well?



I'm not saying that Garrus or Thane would be totally against the idea of hooking up with dude shep (heck they're just fictional characters), but honestly they both mention relationships with females of their species, so I dont see it as realistic that they are suddenly bi-sexual. Given that Tali is from a species that has lost a LARGE portion of its population, they seem very focused and likely to place high emphasis on hetero relationships due to need for procreation... this also applies to Krogans (though inability to breed=perhaps more likely that some might be gay?)



Let me make it clear, I'm not saying these cultural biases SHOULD exist or even do, I'm just saying it seems probable that they would based on the story so far.



As much as I want my hot chick sheps to be able to hook up with Miranda, Jack, or Tali, none of them really come across as characters even open to the idea.



Again I STILL SUPPORT THE IDEA, just trying to play devils advocate to explain the reasoning why it may never be included (or at least currently is not).



Its just a game and you should be able to play it mostly however you want ('cause I dont have to play that way if I dont want to), but being that it IS just a game, trying to hope all your personal life preferences/desires will also be equally represented within is unrealistic.



I still was disappointed however to find my hardcore renegade fem shep couldnt hook up with Jack.

[ElitePinecone]

Glad that you support the idea in principle. I'll briefly try to counter some of the misconceptions that I (respectfully) think are in your post.

In regards to alien cultures not being accepting of same-sex relationships (with the exception of the asari, obviously), it's very difficult to argue this point either way when we don't have very much information. It is made even more difficult by the projection of human gender roles/norms onto alien cultures.

Consider, for example, Garrus' or Thane's prior relationships with females of their species. How do we know that turian or drell females are anything like human concepts of the term, in either anatomy or psychology? For all we know their 'females' could act/look like human females, human males or something so alien that we can't make any analogies. 'Female' only refers to their ability to reproduce - not any sort of external or internal characteristics.

If drell/turian females are very different to human females, then we can hardly expect Thane's/Garrus' attraction to femShep to be physical - especially since they could never reproduce. The same goes with Tali - how do we know her attraction to Shepard is anything but emotional? For that matter, why should she cling to quarian social norms about breeding when Tali can never have children with Shepard anyway?

The main point I'm making is that any discussion about romances with alien cultures rests on a number of assumptions, all of which we know nothing about. Trying to fit human concepts of gender, sexuality and psychology onto alien species is impossible with barely any knowledge of their overall trends, let alone the individuals themselves. Garrus/Thane/Tali/Liara/Samara would need to be rather open-minded to embark on a relationship with Shepard, and vice-versa.

Finally, as an example of an (apparent) same-sex romance already in the game, refer to the recent LotSB pack, in which Captain Gavorn on Omega appears to cavort with a human male (in the midst of shooting vorcha and being generally badass).

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 26 septembre 2010 - 09:45 .

[zvbxrpl]

Valakas wrote...

The bad publicity hurts a game more than you think, i recomended Dragon Age several times to friends and they were like:

- Isn't that game the one that lets you sleep with the gay elf dude? I'm not gay man.

- Errrm, yes, but it's optional you are not forced to....

- Naaaaa, i don't think so.

And this hapened like three times, no kidding.

See, Dragon Age sold really well and was heralded as Bioware's return to classic RPG making.  So all this proves is that your friends are being idiots for missing out on a good game because they don't want to do something that is completely optional ingame.

EDIT: De-harshed a little.

Modifié par zvbxrpl, 26 septembre 2010 - 03:00 .

[Ares Caesar]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Glad that you support the idea in principle. I'll briefly try to counter some of the misconceptions that I (respectfully) think are in your post.

In regards to alien cultures not being accepting of same-sex relationships (with the exception of the asari, obviously), it's very difficult to argue this point either way when we don't have very much information. It is made even more difficult by the projection of human gender roles/norms onto alien cultures.

Consider, for example, Garrus' or Thane's prior relationships with females of their species. How do we know that turian or drell females are anything like human concepts of the term, in either anatomy or psychology? For all we know their 'females' could act/look like human females, human males or something so alien that we can't make any analogies. 'Female' only refers to their ability to reproduce - not any sort of external or internal characteristics.

If drell/turian females are very different to human females, then we can hardly expect Thane's/Garrus' attraction to femShep to be physical - especially since they could never reproduce. The same goes with Tali - how do we know her attraction to Shepard is anything but emotional? For that matter, why should she cling to quarian social norms about breeding when Tali can never have children with Shepard anyway?

The main point I'm making is that any discussion about romances with alien cultures rests on a number of assumptions, all of which we know nothing about. Trying to fit human concepts of gender, sexuality and psychology onto alien species is impossible with barely any knowledge of their overall trends, let alone the individuals themselves. Garrus/Thane/Tali/Liara/Samara would need to be rather open-minded to embark on a relationship with Shepard, and vice-versa.

Finally, as an example of an (apparent) same-sex romance already in the game, refer to the recent LotSB pack, in which Captain Gavorn on Omega appears to cavort with a human male (in the midst of shooting vorcha and being generally badass).

Thats a pretty good point, in that Alien species may not have the same conceptions of "gender"(and I use that term lightly since its not as if its always male/female) in regards to reproduction and sexual orientation the way humanity does. 

In fact I would say that is THE single greatest argument I've heard supporting the idea (in terms of game legitimacy, not external human preferences).

Very good point, and definitely more reason I'll continue to support the idea. Pretty rare you hear a good opinion on a forum that actually sways your own. :happy:

Can I also say I'd actually like to have "bromances"??? If I could have bromance with Grunt or Wrex I totally would have. I mean I guess its not as if they dont have nice things to say about you in the game if you're picking responses you like, but I'd actually like a little bit more ability to establish "friendships" not just loyalties.

Again, I assume we're probably supposed to assume that we're friends with these people if we have their loyalties and choose the right conversation options, but any guy who's ever had a "bromance" will totally know what I'm talkin' 'bout. And considering Shepard has been through hell with some of these guys, I'd like to at least see a bit more friendly conversation on the ship.

I'd still say same sex choices probably should get priority, but I'd totally bromance Grunt and Wrex.

[Tirigon]

Top55 wrote...

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Can't we just make an asari choose whether to go in a boys or girls bathroom and end this debate for good?

This is why. 
www.vgcats.com/comics/

Lol epic.

[SimonTheFrog]

Sorry if this question is silly, but i havent been around alot and i don't want to read too much in case of spoilers.

Anyway, does the latest DLC continue the romance between Liara and a female Shepard?



I'm asking because I stopped playing/buying ME until they put in something like gay romance. So, it would be interesting for me to know if this DLC at least continues what comes closest to that.



Thanks.. and thanks for keeping up the thread. I appreciate this a lot.

[Cootie]

yorkj86 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

Garrus/Thane/Tali/Liara/Samara would need to be rather open-minded to embark on a relationship with Shepard, and vice-versa.

As far as we can tell, for Ardat-Yakshi-related reasons, asari no longer attach a stigma to an asari being in a relationship with a non-asari.  They've even developed the "long-view" philosophy in response to this.

Anyway, I personally don't think asari are as opposed to asari-asari relationships/pairings as the game will have us think. 

Although I do think we can draw parallels between Asari-Asari relationships and gay/bisexual relationships in modern Earth's society, considering the amount of taboo and stigma.

SUPER-FAST EDIT BOOYAH!

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Sorry if this question is silly, but i havent been around alot and i don't want to read too much in case of spoilers.
Anyway, does the latest DLC continue the romance between Liara and a female Shepard?

I'm
asking because I stopped playing/buying ME until they put in something
like gay romance. So, it would be interesting for me to know if this
DLC at least continues what comes closest to that.

Thanks.. and thanks for keeping up the thread. I appreciate this a lot.

Yes, yes, it does continue the relationship between FemShep and Liara if you chose to romance her in ME-1. It's a very realistic (in ME-terms) and it doesn't feel all too tacky. It's probably the best developed romance in the game right now, thanks to that DLC.

Modifié par Cootie, 26 septembre 2010 - 11:11 .