9243 réponses à ce sujet

[elearon1]

>>Trouble is, unlike Miranda, with Kelly, you get one shot and it's over. If you're mean to her the first time out, it's impossible to ever have Shep come around and get flirty with her. She's about the only character, period, LI or otherwise, of whom this is true in either game, and given her forgiving and compassionate nature, she's the character for whom it makes the absolute least sense.<<



Kelly is a psychologist - in my vast experience psychologists are some of the most emotionally unstable people you'll meet. That's a joke ... but it is also true.



In fact, psychologically speaking I'd say Kelly has relationship issues and may be somewhat of a borderline personality. Part of the reason she is so "expiramental" is she cannot hold down a real relationship and attempts to do so end badly, as she takes even passing rejection as a personal affront. She turns to aliens because human relationships have not worked out for her - I would not be surprised to learn she had been sexually abused as a child, or raped at some point during her earlier life. She is relating sexual gratification - which she doesn't probably actually get from her encounters - to emotional approval. Sexual experimentation with aliens is also "safe" in a twisted sort of way, as there is less chance of encounters leading to expectations of a relationship from either party.



Of course, that may be attributing more depth to what is merely meant to be a fun, throw away flirtation and consolation romance prize, but it is fun to speculate.

[ScotGaymer]

Ares Caesar wrote...

I do agree too much ends as soon as a love interest is chosen. Its as if you dont choose them, they dont even want to be friends...

Its why I'm writing an article to support INDIVIDUAL paragon/renegade scores/perspectives for each squadmate. The fact that A) global scores affect EVERYONE is ridiculous and You are forced into being entirely nice or mean to everyone, and even if you've been entirely nice to someone they will only appreciate it up until you've made your decision on love interests, after that they have better things to do apparently than be friends.

You dont need to have individual paragon/renegade scores for each NPC; it would be easy to have a nice, neutral, and jerk counter that is added to every time you are nice/neutral/or a jerk.
For example if you are consistently nice to Jack and then you turn her down she will do a Morrigan ("ive never had a real friend before. i think you are my first real friend.") on you; if your jerk counter scores the highest then you should get the "f*ck off!" response, perhaps even get that for the neutral counter being high for Jack as well.
Where Jack would fall out with you if u had been a jerk or apathetic/neutral Tali/Garrus wouldnt, but might be noticably cooler.

It would allow the game to check at various key points in the friendship path (id like a viable friendship path!) and the romance path just how nice or jerkish you had been in order to choose which response the NPC is going to go with. And some characters might react well to you being nice or being a jerk. For example Grunt would approve of you smacking him or one of the others down if they challenged you; he appreciates you being a bit renegade. Whereas Samara would be utterly revolted by it.

[Nordic Einar]

Yeah, how about we avoid making broad generalized statements based on career/academic fields of study, eh?



Because like almost all generalized statements, they're not even remotely supported by empirical evidence.

[Cootie]

Nordic Einar wrote...

Yeah, how about we avoid making broad generalized statements based on career/academic fields of study, eh?

Because like almost all generalized statements, they're not even remotely supported by empirical evidence.

You're so generalising generalised statements.
*nods*

Anyway, back on topic, I'd like to say that I tend to not say very much that often in this thread as of late. But that's all because I feel like I have nothing to add, mostly. You've done some great analytical things and given good feedback and come up with great ideas, so all I can do is really nod and agree.
Kudos to you lot. I really hope someone at Bioware is reading this and contemplating it as I am.

[elearon1]

Nordic Einar wrote...

Yeah, how about we avoid making broad generalized statements based on career/academic fields of study, eh?

Because like almost all generalized statements, they're not even remotely supported by empirical evidence.

That's all you found to comment on?  Why bother?  

And yes, which is why I said "that's a joke" ... and I can speak from experience, being in the field myself.  Obviously no statement is all inclusive and generalized statements on a subject like that are not meant to be taken that way. 

[Tirigon]

elearon1 wrote...

Nordic Einar wrote...

Yeah, how about we avoid making broad generalized statements based on career/academic fields of study, eh?

Because like almost all generalized statements, they're not even remotely supported by empirical evidence.

That's all you found to comment on?  Why bother?  

And yes, which is why I said "that's a joke" ... and I can speak from experience, being in the field myself.  Obviously no statement is all inclusive and generalized statements on a subject like that are not meant to be taken that way. 

It is no wonder psychologists are strange, and not in the positive meaning.

If you´re messing with other people´s mind as your job your personality must be kinda screwed, or you wouldn´t do it.

[Tirigon]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I hate to say it but its cos the ME2 romances are appallingly badly written.

Its easy to fall into them and far too easy to accidentally **** them up lol.  I mean honestly. My Paragon!Sentinel MaleShep had to knock her back - he did it very nicely. Telling her he wanted a friendship. And next time he goes down to see her whats she say?

"F*CK OFF!"

Okay with Jack it sorta makes sense since shes meant to be a total nutter though I dont particularily like how she goes all hostile **** if you been nice to her - I mean earlier she seems to appreciate you just being nice for the sake of being nice, I mean if u'd been a jerk I coulda understood better but when you arent the reasoning skates on thin ice. However ALL the romances are like that. The minute you say "no sorry not interested" they ALL go all hostile **** on you which makes even less sense for Miranda/Jacob never mind Tali/Garrus with whom you have a long standing friendship previously.

Garrus stays nice if you refuse. He actually seems to like it.

[ElitePinecone]

Cootie wrote...

Anyway, back on topic, I'd like to say that I tend to not say very much that often in this thread as of late. But that's all because I feel like I have nothing to add, mostly. You've done some great analytical things and given good feedback and come up with great ideas, so all I can do is really nod and agree.
Kudos to you lot. I really hope someone at Bioware is reading this and contemplating it as I am.

Been away for a few days, but have to say I agree with this entirely. Whatever the outcome, if any, that this thread has at the very least we've had some great discussions and debated literally dozens of questions very civilly. The quality of dialogue has been very high, for the most part - rare for the tangled and conflicted world of the internets. 

With this in mind, I'm wondering what sort of romances (s/s or otherwise) people would like to see in future non-Shepard Mass Effect games. Hypothetically assuming for a moment that there were no concerns about budgets or sales, in the universe/IP of Mass Effect what are some ideal characters or even scenarios for future titles? Mass Effect 3 is slated to be the end of Shepard's particular story, but I'm sure there are more titles to be milked (lovingly squeezed?) out of such a rich universe. 

[Fancando]

I find nothing wrong with every possible human sexual persuasion existing in ME. It is an RPG and the player has the right to choose whatever fictional love life they want.
And paramores like Kelly should stay and ME 3 could have  more options like so that Shepard can make the choice to not have a steady relationship but one night stands instead.

Modifié par Fancando, 01 octobre 2010 - 01:55 .

[Elite Midget]

You ever wonder why they pulled the lesbian option away from Ashley? It's been hinted that she was supposed to be a male/female love interest. Do you think Liara is the reason they pulled it or that they were worried about the backlash?

Modifié par Elite Midget, 03 octobre 2010 - 06:56 .

[Saibh]

Elite Midget wrote...

You ever wonder why they pulled the lesbian option away from Ashley? It's been hinted that she was supposed to be a male/female love interest. Do you think Liara is the reason they pulled it or that they were worried about the backlash?

Both Kaidan and Ashley were bisexual, at one point. There is dialogue fully recorded between a maleShep and femShep respectively referencing this. Ultimately, it was probably pulled because they didn't want to include a controversial gay romance, and two lesbian relationships and no male one would be very conspicuous. There's also no conceivable reason for an asari who is interested in ManShep not to be interested in FemShep.

We have dialogue referencing Thane as a bisexual option and Miranda as a bisexual option as well. I'm pretty sure Tali might have been an option, too. Of course, it's difficult to tell if they were actually planning on implementing it, or if they simply covering their bases if they decided to later, since with the Thane and Miranda examples, I've only ever heard Shepard reference them as same-sex romances in game, not the characters themselves.

Anyone feel free to correct me, though.

Modifié par Saibh, 03 octobre 2010 - 07:08 .

[uzivatel]

Saibh wrote...

Both Kaidan and Ashley were bisexual, at one point. There is dialogue fully recorded between a maleShep and femShep respectively referencing this. Ultimately, it was probably pulled because they didn't want to include a controversial gay romance, and two lesbian relationships and no male one would be very conspicuous.

In retrospect it may have been good decision - everyone being bi would be bit stupid.

We have dialogue referencing Thane as a bisexual option and Miranda as a bisexual option as well. I'm pretty sure Tali might have been an option, too. Of course, it's difficult to tell if they were actually planning on implementing it, or if they simply covering their bases if they decided to later, since with the Thane and Miranda examples, I've only ever heard Shepard reference them as same-sex romances in game, not the characters themselves.
Anyone feel free to correct me, though. 

As much as my female Shepard would enjoy it, Miranda is not an option thanks to her background.

[elearon1]

>>Miranda is not an option thanks to her background.<<



What did I miss in her background that makes her a noncondidate for a same sex romance?

[Ryzaki]

elearon1 wrote...

>>Miranda is not an option thanks to her background.

What did I miss in her background that makes her a noncondidate for a same sex romance?

I guess the whole "Perfect Woman" bit? Though one would think that would make her more likely to be bi.

Hm...

Also m/m with Joker in ME3 would be <3

Yes. I know I flop on the issue a lot. But I'm pro Joker s/s romance now.

[uzivatel]

elearon1 wrote...

>>Miranda is not an option thanks to her background.

What did I miss in her background that makes her a noncondidate for a same sex romance?

She was created and creating her bisexual would be IMO inconvenient considering her purpose.

Modifié par uzivatel, 04 octobre 2010 - 11:09 .

[Wittand25]

uzivatel wrote...

elearon1 wrote...

>>Miranda is not an option thanks to her background.

What did I miss in her background that makes her a noncondidate for a same sex romance?

She was created and creating her bisexual would be IMO inconvenient considering her purpose.

So was giving her any sort of sex drive, or even making her a she. Miranda´s family history does not make a whole lot of sense or requires an even sicker explanation than you get in game, but discussions about that belong to other threads.

[uzivatel]

Wittand25 wrote...

So was giving her any sort of sex drive, or even making her a she. Miranda´s family history does not make a whole lot of sense or requires an even sicker explanation than you get in game, but discussions about that belong to other threads.

I did not give it much thought, but I always understood that one of her key features was to have children. While that could be obviously achieved using some non-sexual means, it would mean risk to whatever purpose she had.

Modifié par uzivatel, 04 octobre 2010 - 03:01 .

[elearon1]

The problem is, there isn't really a gene for bisexuality. There is some evidence that there may be a gene which influences the possibility of homosexual behavior - but, and this is important, modern psychology tells us that behavior is created by a mixture of genetic, social, and psychological factors. While a gene can make you more prone to a certain behavior, other elements determine whether or not that potential comes realized.



Besides which, Miranda always struck me as the type who was used to using any tool at hand to get what she wanted - so if she thought seducing a woman would allow her to achieve the end game she was looking for, I fully expect she'd do it. I do doubt, however, male or female she would maintain any long term relationships.

[Burritos]

you people make bisexuals sound like liars. lol

i know plenty of bisexuals

[elearon1]

Not sure what your point is there? Or if you're referring to my statement.

Bisexuals most certainly do exist, but that does not mean they are genetically predisposed toward bisexuality, rather the behavior is either a choice or a combination of social and psychological/developmental factors. (it can be either or)

My point was that Miranda being "genetically perfect" would not prevent her from being bisexual.

Modifié par elearon1, 05 octobre 2010 - 02:44 .

[BrianWilly]

uzivatel wrote...

I did not give it much thought, but I always understood that one of her key features was to have children. While that could be obviously achieved using some non-sexual means, it would mean risk to whatever purpose she had.

Aaahh...on that subject, look through the Miranda's dossiers in Lair of the Shadow Broker if you haven't yet.  Without spoiling anything, I'll just say that having children was probably not high up on her list of "key features."

[Elite Midget]

I personally see nothing wrong if all the characters were romanceable by both genders just as long as it was handled well. Though the Hypocritical Religious fantics would have af eel day on this. Most likely by spreading lies and solicting funds from their ignorant followers that never question them. But I digress...



Anyways, I would personally like the option to romance Joker and maybe TIM in ME3.



A Renegade Female Shepard is just asking to get some alone time with TIM.

[MisterDyslexo]

I see no problem with bisexual-izing characters, although it should be only so if it makes logical sense to do so. Take DAO for instance. Alistair could only be romanced by a female. Did it have relevance to the plot? Yes. How about the same question, but with Morrigan. Did her being straight have relevance to the plot? Yes, it did. That said, if it would matter or have relevance in the Mass Effect universe for a character to only be an opposite or same-sex romance, I'd have no problem with it being that way. Currently, though, it doesn't really seem that the gender of Shepard matters all that much in the mass effect universe. You do the same stuff and the only real thing that is affected are minor interactions with NPCs (take Harkin in ME1 for instance), so bisexual-izing doesn't seem to absurd when it comes to plot. Or at least it seems that way to me, and don't take my word for it, as I'm not all too intelligent.

[Elite Midget]

Don't sell yourself short. You were smart enough to find this forum so you're most lkikely smarter than a lot of the other ME fans out there that can't or don't even try. =p

[Fancando]

Elite Midget wrote...

You ever wonder why they pulled the lesbian option away from Ashley? It's been hinted that she was supposed to be a male/female love interest. Do you think Liara is the reason they pulled it or that they were worried about the backlash?

The Asari are a one gender  female species that make Femshep gay without Femshep being gay in human terms, they are the politically correct way to have a lesbian in the game, a way to circumvent the censors by saying that aliens don't count as "gay" characters.