9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

Why is it everytime I come to this thread it is in the processing of being derailed

[Pacifien]

As tempting as I know it always is, please don't acknowledge trolling in the public forum. Ever. Acknowledgement of the trolling is kind of the intent of trolling, so you're not doing the thread any favors. You are welcome to send a PM to a moderator to take a look at the post and see to its removal. Thank you. Have a great day. You may now return to fighting for the love in a civil manner.

[tonykart34]

[Edit: If you have issues with a moderator action, you can send the moderator a PM or one to the forum administrator, but you can't discuss it on the public forums. Thank you. - Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 21 octobre 2010 - 02:09 .

[ElitePinecone]

Saibh wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Though there really isn't just a mod to enable S/S romances right? I have to do the whole gender switch thing using the save game editor?

To the best of my knowledge--yes. In the first game, both Kaidan and Ashley had fully voiced lines with a same-sex Shepard, so it was simply a matter of enabling them. While there are some lines from Shepard that reference same-sex romances, none of them are complete, and none of them have lines from the actual characters (to my knowledge), most likely because they scrapped the idea of a same sex romance before they hired everyone else but Meer and Hale.

Yes, in Mass Effect both Kaidan and Ashley have fully voiced romances with both male and female Shepard. Shepard's lines for both genders are the same (as best I know) for both squadmates - i.e. maleShep anf femShep will say the same lines to Kaidan. There are some interesting conversations with Liara, however. Here are some links to the romance conversations:

MaleShep/Kaidan:

Part 1
Part 2
Post-Virmire conversation
Part 3
Part 4

Very awesome conversation with Liara

FemaleShep/Ashley (I couldn't find all the romance videos, but it seems to work the same way as Kaidan/MShep):

Final romance scene

It's a little hard to tell at what stage the romances were cut. The fact that romances are only possible if the game believes Shepard is the opposite gender means that (as far as I know) Kaidan and Ashley reply to Shepard as if they are speaking to the opposite gendered version - so their lines are the same as a heterosexual romance, including pronouns. The fact that there are vestigial lines recorded for s/s romances means that at some point in development they were considered.

Note that (somehow) the game records a Kaidan/MShep or Ashley/FemShep romance in the save file, and an import into ME2 successfully carries over this romance (i.e. with the reunion and embrace on Horizon). I haven't seen it tested with the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC (in reference to the conversation about Kaidan/Ashley). There are plenty of videos of this floating around YouTube.

[SimonTheFrog]

Wow... and i thought i've seen everything o.O Shepard speaking openly about being gay is just heartwarming. 

Also funny: when Kaidan is jealous over Liara with a femShep, he's asking whether femShep is a "... ...prefers other women" and Liara giving the Casey Hudson speech about not being a woman (link) 
It's not really on topic, just funny and i havent seen it either yet. 
 

[Babli]

Siansonea II wrote...

Babli wrote...

LRWade wrote...

Just so we're all clear in this point...
Liara, Samara and Morinth aren't women. They are members of an asexual species. It's a major cop-out and doesn't count as a fem/fem romance.

****** = female

Actually, ******=mammal. Oocytes=female. Male humans have '******', or have you never seen a dude with his shirt off? Those nipples? ******. They're just not activated by the endocrine system the same way female humans' breasts are.

OK, let me make myself clear.

Female ******.

Modifié par Babli, 21 octobre 2010 - 04:02 .

[MisterDyslexo]

I don't know if this has been posted before, but I was looking to see if there was any romance dialogue for Miranda by Jennifer Hale (since it was probable that she was originally intended to romanceable by both sexes), and I found this:



And this for Jack:





Couldn't find the whole conversation with mordin, or Shepard talking to Miranda or Jack in the final conversation before the romance scene. It'd probably be good if somebody who can mod could get that posted somehow to the front page

[Jademoon121]

I...I can't believe that the same-sex romanaces were written, recorded, implemented in the game(more or less) but Bioware cut's them off at the last minute! Why?

[Siansonea]

Jademoon121 wrote...

I...I can't believe that the same-sex romanaces were written, recorded, implemented in the game(more or less) but Bioware cut's them off at the last minute! Why?

We will never know the real story. In all likelihood the real reasons aren't "marketing-friendly" enough for public consumption, so we have to read between the lines of the hamfisted BS we hear from the suits at BioWare.

[Saibh]

yorkj86 wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

I...I can't believe that the same-sex romanaces were written, recorded, implemented in the game(more or less) but Bioware cut's them off at the last minute! Why?

At least Jack says she's heterosexual, thus providing a reason for why she's not a s/s LI option. 

Why is it only Jack who has lines for turning down FemShep, though?  Does Tali have such lines for FemShep?

You can't hit on Jack with FemShep in the vanilla game, unless I really missed something--and, actually, Jack is the only character with confirmed female relationships. It may be she was coerced into the relationship that included her, a woman, and a man, and isn't actually bisexual, but she's the only one of Shepard's love interests that has any sort of canon relationships with the same sex.

Besides that, most people don't need to spell out their sexual preferences for them to simply not be interested in men or women. All of them have reasons for not being same sex options--they're not bisexual.

[Ryzaki]

...I don't understand why people think Asari are asexual though...it makes me wonder how many people even know what asexual means? 

[Quething]

Saibh wrote...

You can't hit on Jack with FemShep in the vanilla game, unless I really missed something--and, actually, Jack is the only character with confirmed female relationships. It may be she was coerced into the relationship that included her, a woman, and a man, and isn't actually bisexual, but she's the only one of Shepard's love interests that has any sort of canon relationships with the same sex.

I've always found that little anectdote really interesting. Because, even beyond the causal "a girlfriend or a boyfriend," Jack doesn't talk about the guy. She says she ran with a girl, oh and also her boyfriend. I don't think she even gives the guy's name; she definitely does give the girl's. The way she frames the story, it was the chick who she was with (for whatever sense of the word "with" you want to use), and the guy who was just sort of part of the package (sort of the way Shepard's crew are all just "part of Shepard's crew" to each other, and they only ever interact at all because Shep him/herself is there). It's pretty clear that she wasn't just hooking up with the girl for the boy's sake; if anything, it was the other way around.

Yes, it's a reasonably subtle distinction the way she says it, but subtle cues are what you get with queer characters (and queer people for that matter, at least in most places) - you learn to pick up on them all the same, like learning to tell one car engine from another when to everyone else it's just "generic car noise." For me, that conversation screamed, and I was really confused later when she didn't end up being romancable. (Not that my femShep would have cheated on Ashley anyway, I went to way too much effort with all that hex editing to just throw it all away, I'm just saying, I expected the option.)

yorkj86 wrote...

FemShep can hit on Jack, kind of. Jack says that she "doesn't play for the girl's team", and that, because of that, she wants to keep her interactions with FemShep strictly platonic.  Considering those two things together, it seems as if Jack is heterosexual.

Wait, what? When? Are you talking about the "girl's club" line that everyone gets hung up on? Because that's very different from "don't play for the girls' team." But I don't know of any line by Jack that's any more explicit.

Modifié par Quething, 22 octobre 2010 - 06:04 .

[SimonTheFrog]

yorkj86 wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

I...I can't believe that the same-sex romanaces were written, recorded, implemented in the game(more or less) but Bioware cut's them off at the last minute! Why?

At least Jack says she's heterosexual, thus providing a reason for why she's not a s/s LI option. 

Why is it only Jack who has lines for turning down FemShep, though?  Does Tali have such lines for FemShep?

No. There is nothing like that. Tali talks about how Shepard is the first and only person ever she can imagine linking suits with. Shepard then can either say that Tali doesn't need to prove anything or she can ask whether Tali just blushed under the helmet.
Tali then stutters (in her cute way) and says she that she'd better tinker a bit more at the engine. 

It's like a cliff hanger and no next season.

Anyhow, why that stuff was cut (in both games) has been hotly debated over the last years and we are still waiting for a good answer (and not something like "the artists are free to express themselves" what we got sofar and what was it? Mass Effect is a third-person RPG or something similar convincing).
My bet is they ran out of time to finish all the stuff they had planned and looked for something that could be easily cut and would not upset the majority of players (and press).
So, nothing complex or (really) related to the subject as such, i think.

Still, its incredible if you think about it.

P.S. Jack clearly contradicts herself in this matter. I see the "i ran with the girl once... and her boyfriend" as a clear sign that the can fall for girls and later the line "not in the girls club" doesn't make sense at all. If she meant "not anymore" than this is badly written. 

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:16 .

[ElitePinecone]

yorkj86 wrote...

I don't know.  What's the "girl's club" line?  All I know of is the "girls' team" line.  Maybe I'm recalling the line incorrectly.

As far as I know she says "girls club" not "girls' team" - and only to a female Shepard. 

I interpreted that line as meaning "I don't want to talk and gossip [with you]". It's pretty ambiguous, and it could definitely mean she isn't attracted to women - but I always thought it meant she didn't want to be part of a stereotypical circle of ladies gossiping and chatting (i.e. girls club). Could be completely wrong though. 

[Wittand25]

yorkj86 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

I don't know.  What's the "girl's club" line?  All I know of is the "girls' team" line.  Maybe I'm recalling the line incorrectly.

As far as I know she says "girls club" not "girls' team" - and only to a female Shepard. 

I interpreted that line as meaning "I don't want to talk and gossip [with you]". It's pretty ambiguous, and it could definitely mean she isn't attracted to women - but I always thought it meant she didn't want to be part of a stereotypical circle of ladies gossiping and chatting (i.e. girls club). Could be completely wrong though. 

"Girls' club" is still ambiguous.  It could mean several things.

Anyway, I've heard decent arguments about how Jack being heterosexual avoids a large number of unsavory stereotypes, while simultaneously bringing up a smaller number of stereotypes.

Kelly is still in the game, so avoidance of stereotypes does not seem like a valid reason to cut the Jack/FShep romance (if such a romance was ever planned). But it is not only Jack that has ambiguous dialog some things Jacob and a male Shepard say to each other also make them sound interested in more than a platonic relationship, like the fraternisation dialog or admiring each others body.

[Fancando]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Though there really isn't just a mod to enable S/S romances right? I have to do the whole gender switch thing using the save game editor?

To the best of my knowledge--yes. In the first game, both Kaidan and Ashley had fully voiced lines with a same-sex Shepard, so it was simply a matter of enabling them. While there are some lines from Shepard that reference same-sex romances, none of them are complete, and none of them have lines from the actual characters (to my knowledge), most likely because they scrapped the idea of a same sex romance before they hired everyone else but Meer and Hale.

Yes, in Mass Effect both Kaidan and Ashley have fully voiced romances with both male and female Shepard. Shepard's lines for both genders are the same (as best I know) for both squadmates - i.e. maleShep anf femShep will say the same lines to Kaidan. There are some interesting conversations with Liara, however. Here are some links to the romance conversations:

MaleShep/Kaidan:

Part 1
Part 2
Post-Virmire conversation
Part 3
Part 4

Very awesome conversation with Liara

FemaleShep/Ashley (I couldn't find all the romance videos, but it seems to work the same way as Kaidan/MShep):

Final romance scene

It's a little hard to tell at what stage the romances were cut. The fact that romances are only possible if the game believes Shepard is the opposite gender means that (as far as I know) Kaidan and Ashley reply to Shepard as if they are speaking to the opposite gendered version - so their lines are the same as a heterosexual romance, including pronouns. The fact that there are vestigial lines recorded for s/s romances means that at some point in development they were considered.

Note that (somehow) the game records a Kaidan/MShep or Ashley/FemShep romance in the save file, and an import into ME2 successfully carries over this romance (i.e. with the reunion and embrace on Horizon). I haven't seen it tested with the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC (in reference to the conversation about Kaidan/Ashley). There are plenty of videos of this floating around YouTube.

Interesting, very interesting indeed.
In Shadow Broker, Femshep actually wants an "alternate" family life with Liara after ME2,she hit on Kelly and she reciprocated  and the "girls club" punt by Jack makes it clear that I have in fact a lesbian Femshep in ME2, All that is missing  is the L word.

Modifié par Fancando, 22 octobre 2010 - 07:39 .

[Saibh]

Fancando wrote...

Interesting, very interesting indeed.
In Shadow Broker, Femshep actually wants an "alternate" family life with Liara after ME2,she hit on Kelly and she reciprocated  and the "girls club" punt by Jack makes it clear that I have in fact a lesbian Femshep in ME2, All that is missing  is the L word.

I'm pretty sure FemShep in ME1 can say she's only interested in women, can't she? Or, at least clarify that she's interested in women to Kaidan.

But, yeah. You can make your FemShep completely lesbian, if you want, disregarding skankvoice with Jacob.

yorkj86 wrote...

Based on its shortness and lack-of-development, I'm not entirely sure Kelly dancing was ever meant to mean as much as the romance arcs.

Also, I'm not saying that avoiding stereotypes is a valid reason, only that it does avoid stereotypes, while encountering others.

We'll never get a straight answer on why the s/s romances were cut.

I know this sounds really bitter, but it's probably because they didn't want to make gay romances, and having (even more) lesbian romances would have made the difference really glaring.

Modifié par Saibh, 22 octobre 2010 - 02:50 .

[SimonTheFrog]

Again, i think you're reading too much into it: see, the game is made with male-shep in mind and femshep added as well as possible. (BioWare must have figured that a bigger proportion of the audience is a) male and wants to play a male hero).

Thats why we have Asari, thats why all Asari hit on Shepard (well, not all but amazingly many), thats why Kelly is there etc etc.

In most cases they let femShep have the same content just because its easier to do that way. Exhibit Kelly: she's the same for guys and girls because they didn't have the budget to make a male yeoman version. Not because they supported same sex stuff.

Or Parasini, in this case they just cut a few seconds of dialog to make the lesbian effect go away. But they didn't add anything for femSheps in that same manner.



So, bottomline, no conspiracy against male gays i think, just a male centered game with a female hero thrown in as cheaply as possible and cut same sex content because that part of the community has been deemed too small to bother.