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[ScooterPie88]

ElitePinecone wrote...

ScooterPie88 wrote...

There was no s/s in KotOR (as far as I can remember it has been several years).

Also how is not a political statement.  It has everything to do with politics and therefore unecessary and unwelcome.

How would it not be a sexual identity crisis.  For 2 games (2 years in universe Shep has never had a preference for anything but the opposite sex) all the sudden he/she decides to swing the other way.  It just doen't make sense.

Juhani was a romance option for both male and female characters (changed to only female characters after a patch, the original bisexuality had been an error).

Your conflation of politics and video games is unwelcome. Insisting that same-sex romance immediately becomes a political statement makes about as much sense as saying that Mass Effect's commentary on xenophobia/racism is a political statement. Or that its focus on violent/non-violent conflict resolution and morality system is an unwelcome intrusion of anti-war/pro-war politics into video games. Or that the inclusion of violent coercion through Renegade options justifies torture. That including rampant AIs brings to mind questions of sentience. That the status of the Spectres is a subtle political argument against unaccountable military interventions. I can go on, and on, and on.

All of the above are part of the video game. All of the above can be interpreted through a political perspective. Mass Effect would be extraordinarily dull without them. Yet they are political statements, or can be seen as such. By your logic, they can't be there, because they're drawing political questions from our current discourse into another medium. This is dangerously narrow-minded. 

 

So because my opinion differs from yours I'm narrow minded?  How juvenile.

[ElitePinecone]

ScooterPie88 wrote...

On second thought you're absolutely right.  Male shep should be able to walk around the Normandy wearing a cocktail dress, lipstick, eyeliner, and pantyhose.  I can just hear Uldina asking if that is the kind of man we want protecting the galaxy and Anderson replying it's the only kind of man that can protect the galaxy. Puleaze.

On customization: there has to be limits.  I may want to slaughter every NPC in every area of the game but I can't because there are limits.  I can't customize my Shep to be the worst murderer the galaxy has ever known but you don't see me making posts asking for it because it is just silly.  Without limits the game and story spiral into chaos.  If you want nearly limitless RPG customization go play Fable but please leave the ME universe in peace. 

Your first comment hardly helps your cause. At best it is grossly tactless and at worst it's simplistic and offensive. Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. 

You're absolutely correct about the customisation question. There are limits, and it's Bioware's job to set them. All this thread is doing is presenting a considered argument. It would be welcome if you were to do the same, instead of resorting to insults. Nobody is forcing this issue down your throat, and you have every right to argue against it. Just do it reasonably, and with at least a modicum of sense. 

[Wittand25]

ScooterPie88 wrote...
On second thought you're absolutely right.  Male shep should be able to walk around the Normandy wearing a cocktail dress, lipstick, eyeliner, and pantyhose.  I can just hear Uldina asking if that is the kind of man we want protecting the galaxy and Anderson replying it's the only kind of man that can protect the galaxy. Puleaze.

Am I really supposed to react to such a weak straw-man ?

On customization: there has to be limits.  I may want to slaughter every NPC in every area of the game but I can't because there are limits.  I can't customize my Shep to be the worst murderer the galaxy has ever known but you don't see me making posts asking for it because it is just silly.  Without limits the game and story spiral into chaos.  If you want nearly limitless RPG customization go play Fable but please leave the ME universe in peace. 

Slightly better straw-man, but still one. If you argue that way all other romances with the exception of one canon and forced romance for MShep should be cut, because they just make the story more complicated. (FShep should be cut completely). An optional romance option is hardly the same as a game mechanic that would require the whole game to be changed and is diametrically opposed to the Bioware style of game making.

[ScooterPie88]

React? I'm simply stating my wish for further customization. To incite was not my intention.  Neither was it to insult. At my high school there was a guy who wore a dress to prom so I know my analyisis is at least partially accurate (he played Mass Effect constantly).  I will refrain from saying something indisputeably "tactless" or "offensive" (if you want to see what I had to say PM me and I might reply there in private but there is no reason to turn this into a public pissing contest.  I'm sorry if I offended you.  But I have every right to make an arguement that my idea be included in the game; same as you.  I find your ideas mildly offensive but again you have every right to post them so keep on doing so.  I'm not going to try to dissuade you or even say your ideas are wrong.  I'm just going to disagree with your principles and offer my counter proposal.  Besides it would make for hilarious Youtube videos. Just picture Miranda scolding Shep or Tali making moves at Shep while he stands there with the creepy face dressed like Buffalo Bill (Silence of the Lambs). I would thoroughly enjoy such content. It would make sending people off to die that much more amusing.  You could even throw a "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again," line.  I for one would laugh my ass off.  Then to further customize you could have Shep (either sex) collect skin from his foes of the opposite sex in order to make a "skin suit."  It would be a great sidequest that could have actual visual rewards.  You could add turian scales, blue asari skin, krogan "plates" it would be very funny and let you customize your Shepard like never before.

Straw-man? I thought we were above name calling here.

I would rather see EVERY romance cut than allow your idea in the game. Besides my idea is so much more cosmetically amsuing. Still can't really think of what to come up with for Femshep. Maybe something like Jack's "hairstyle" with a flannel shirt and cowboy boots (the lumberjack look).  Might need a musctache also.

Modifié par ScooterPie88, 05 novembre 2010 - 01:24 .

[SimonTheFrog]

OK, this debate is uh vivid. Let's slow down a bit.

Basically, ScooterPie88, you're saying you don't want a gay option in the game? Fine. Done.

Let's move on.

[AntiChri5]

Why is this thread always so...........volatile?

[Daewan]

Because some people just can't get over the log in their own eyes while trying to deal with the speck in someone else's.

Also, because overreacting and dredging up retarded stereotypes on the Internet is fun.

[DanaScu]

Don't let the thread get derailed. The problem was reported.

[Pacifien]

Please don't discuss the thread; keep to discussing the topic for which this thread was created. If you strongly disagree with the topic of this thread, be sure to give careful consideration as to whether your words are inflammatory and insulting to the participants of this thread. Statements like "puleaze" are dismissive. Discussing making a "skin suit" wouldn't even fly as the subject of its own dedicated thread, let alone in this one.

[ADLegend21]

so yeah, I want some same sex romance bioware. Honestly the one that'd make the most sense is Miranda. Like Liara in Me1 she takes an interest in shepard regardless of gender since she has to rebuild them anyway so why shouldn't she also develop feelings for femshep? rebuilding the commander was basically the job of a lifetime and she spent two years of her life doing it.

[SimonTheFrog]

Why would those "feelings" result in a LI, though? Especially if you're a project leader in a medical enterprise your relationship to the patient should be really disturbed by all the crap you know about his or her body.
I'd imagine it more as pride, feeling close in an impersonal sort of way (like someone would feel close to a vintage car he kept restoring for a couple a years) and maybe friendship after a long time working together and all the medical history starts to fade a bit.
But romance? I'm not so sure that would work.

On the other hand, both do have stuff in common, being engineered and all. But I guess that's not so unusual in that time and i'm not sure if that's enough to work as a base for a relationship.

That, and both Shep and Miranda should be professional enough to know that the fraternization rules are not made up just to annoy the enlisted. They are there for a reason. I mean it worked in "Chuck" but this is not so realistic, all things considered, now is it?!


P.S. i'm joking by the way. Well kind of. I still think the whole romance part of ME is silly in most cases but i don't care too much and i'd like to have a LI option with Miranda with my femShep!

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 05 novembre 2010 - 05:57 .

[Madame November]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Why would those "feelings" result in a LI, though?

Because everyone falls in love with Shep. Are you claiming my Shep isn't perfect?<3:wizard:<3

[SimonTheFrog]

November Cousland wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Why would those "feelings" result in a LI, though?

Because everyone falls in love with Shep. Are you claiming my Shep isn't perfect?<3:wizard:<3

I know! That's why its so weird not to include s/s romance.

But you know, there are different kinds of love. I love Richard Dawkins for example, but i wouldn't say that it leads to a LI ^^ hm... thinking about it... well, nvm... 

Anyway, where was i? Ah, yeah Miri&Shep ftw

[ADLegend21]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Why would those "feelings" result in a LI, though?

Because to make shep the same person she has to learn about them.When you learna bout someone you end up either damning them for what they did or sympathizing them. something about Miranda could click with something about Shepard and bam attraction. or she could look at the finish product and go "damn i made her hot" whichever makes more sense

[Quething]

Well, that boob job she gave my femShep can't have been completely innocent modification on her part...

[DanaScu]

ADLegend21 wrote...

so yeah, I want some same sex romance bioware. Honestly the one that'd make the most sense is Miranda. Like Liara in Me1 she takes an interest in shepard regardless of gender since she has to rebuild them anyway so why shouldn't she also develop feelings for femshep? rebuilding the commander was basically the job of a lifetime and she spent two years of her life doing it.

Might explain Miranda falling for Shepard; the question would be whether or not Shepard would return the feelings. Don't forget, Shepard coming back wasn't Shepard's idea. Having Cerberus bringing her back after all the not so successful Cerberus experiments Shepard shut down might color her feelings just a bit. Add in the first conversation you can have with Miranda, where she shows a lot of apparent jealousy of Shepard, and her comment about how, if she had been in charge, she would have assured Shepard would be obedient by using a behavior chip in her brain might not be the best foundation to set a relationship on, imo.

[Maelora]

I just don't see Miranda as anything other than straight. She's pretty much the picture of the unlikeable high-school Queen-Bee type.



What's really annoying is the way they cut off the Tali relationship for FemShep. I mean, she admits she wants to 'share suits' with you, then... nothing? Why cut this one off for female characters? It would have worked fine with no voice acting changes.



Jack's situation is annoying too. She openly admits she's bisexual. I could accept this, if you could develop a strong platonic friendship with her, but nooo, this is Bioware, where platonic friendships don't exist. You're either sleeping with somebody, or they're a distant acquaintence.



The problem is that Jack is broken, and only ManShep can fix her, by sleeping with her. Where's the tears and girly friendship for FemShep? She's the only ME companion with actual development, and that development is forbidden to female characters.



And if wishes were ponies, I want ManShep x Jacob too

[ScooterPie88]

[Edit: Advocating piracy of games on a gaming forum is wrong. It does, however, ensure one gets banned. -- Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:40 .

[SimonTheFrog]

@ scooterpie: Thanks for telling us once again. But i AM a bit curious why giving this option to players that would like to have it is a terrible idea? It's not as if you (and your 2 brothers) would have to pursue it.
It's like adding femShep or black skin colour option. Don't feel like picking it, don't pick it!

What's the difference to you if others do?

Not giving the players options to play the game how they want it now THAT is a terrible idea.

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 06 novembre 2010 - 08:12 .

[ScooterPie88]

You mean like me not being able to do what I said in a previous post. What makes what you want to do any more valid that what I want to do?

[SimonTheFrog]

yorkj86 wrote...

Maelora wrote...

... snip ...

Jack's sexuality is ambiguous, and inconclusive.  Provided with that, and the fact that she turns down FemShep, it would seem that she's straight, or not attracted to FemShep (which is not possible, as everyone whose sexuality coordinates with Shepard's, and who isn't Samara, falls for Shepard), or a bisexual heteroromantic.  The last possibility, though, is unlikely, because Jack doesn't take FemShep up on the casual sex option, either (I think?).

Lastly, tough women can't be heterosexual?

When asked about her personal past Jack say something like: "I went out with this girl Elnara (or something)... and her boyfriend." 
So, we know she is open to same sex stuff. 
Later she tells femShep that she appreciates femShep coming down and talking to her but: "I'm not into the girl's club". Which clearly states that she does not want ANY lesbian relationship at all.
That's how it is. 

Of course tough women can be heterosexual. Very clever question 
But apparently non can be gay?! Also, what this strict alignment all about? Making one exception for Shepard doesn't necessarily change your whole sexual identity  Shep is the hero(in), that's all that is needed to fall in love and have a LI!

[SimonTheFrog]

ScooterPie88 wrote...

You mean like me not being able to do what I said in a previous post. What makes what you want to do any more valid that what I want to do?

Because the one thing this thread is about is a very common human trait (also acknowledged by other BioWare game) whereas what you mentioned earlier is a very VERY unusual phantasy and NSFW either. It is less valid because it's exceptionally cruel and not supported by a reasonable amount of fans (if any besides YOU).

Edit... btw i noticed you dodged the question. Suspicious... didn't get any real answers, huh?!

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 06 novembre 2010 - 08:29 .

[Wittand25]

I never took Jacks statement as not meaning that she is not interested in joining the sexual "girlclub" but that she is talking about the social "girlsclub" of being BFF with Shepard.
I found it strange that Jack actually has a ending in her dialog with FShep the others usually just leave you hanging and stop talking with Shepard without a special ending dialog.

Modifié par Wittand25, 06 novembre 2010 - 08:36 .