9243 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterDyslexo]

Eromenos wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

You know, a character doesn't really have to be defined by his sexuality. He doesn't have to bring sexual innuendo into every conversation. Doesn't have to throw in feeders to see if another guy is interested. He could simply not be interested in pursuing a romantic relationship until the Reapers are on his very doorstep and he has an epiphany that leads him to grab Big Ben Sniper Guy and kiss him passionately before it's all over.
People complain that Shepard is a wooden plank in the games, but the reason why is because it allows great leeway for someone to roleplay the character, filling in the blanks that are never explicitly covered within the game. If you roleplayed Shepard as having no romantic interest in the first two games, it's perfectly reasonable he would be "suddenly" gay in the third game. That is fair.
If you did roleplay Shepard as some hopeless romantic in need of companionship in the first two games, then maybe his sudden turn of interest from the ladies to the men might seem odd. That is the way you chose to roleplay it. There is no wrong way to roleplay.

Why would it be odd if he or she is a switch-hitter? You're making an excuse to defend ME3 in the likely event that it will continue to exclude M/M while expanding on current and past exploitations of F/F.

I think Pacifien was simply stating that the "Consistency" argument has no solid logic and hoes against the principles of Role-playing in a RPG, and that regardless of how one thinks of another playing in this manner that...

Pacifien wrote...
There is no wrong way to roleplay.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:34 .

[Pacifien]

The Fan wrote...
I agree with Wrexdot. I don't want Shepard's picture to be altered in this way. I think it will get a lot of bad press and make this game a laughing stock for all the anit-gay/lesbian people in the world. Plus i want to talk to members of my team without becoming their butt buddy.

I see you fail to grasp the concept of roleplaying games. Because the option exists doesn't mean you have to take it. And I would avoid comments about becoming someone's butt buddy, as that can be deemed offensive. A moderator might have to get involved then.

[jlb524]

The Fan wrote...

I agree with Wrexdot. I don't want Shepard's picture to be altered in this way. I think it will get a lot of bad press and make this game a laughing stock for all the anit-gay/lesbian people in the world. Plus i want to talk to members of my team without becoming their butt buddy.

Shepard isn't supposed to be a single 'picture' though.  Shepard is to be what each player makes him or her. 

Compare this to Paragon/Renegade.   Shepard isn't either absolutely, but the player can choose to be one or the other.  Mass Effect is supposed to be the player's space adventure of their own making.

Modifié par jlb524, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:41 .

[MisterDyslexo]

The Fan wrote...

I agree with Wrexdot. I don't want Shepard's picture to be altered in this way.

Its role-playing, so there is no canon. The closest thing is Sheploo, which we always see speechless in the game marketing. This would in no way affect Shepard's image, including other reasons such as Shepard could be of a different race of even female. There is no real image, only what you see in your head. Nobody see the same thing.

The Fan wrote...

I think it will get a lot of bad press and make this game a laughing stock for all the anit-gay/lesbian people in the world.

"Any publicity is good publicity"

Regardless of the fact it won't affect the image, this group you speak of isn't necessarily the type of people you want to cater to. Bioware has shown pride in their work and if a few people laugh at them for this, there will be others who will applaud them for it. They'll be the better man (figuratively speaking) for not obeying the whims of others against their own.

The Fan wrote...
Plus i want to talk to members of
my team without becoming their butt buddy.

Role-playing = Non-canon as in choice. It would be your choice to avoid it. Nobody's forcing it on you. I hate the Tali romance, but I understand others like it, so I just avoid it when possible, rather than rally against it. A very simple solution that makes everybody, including myself, happier and less screamed-at when the day draws to a close.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:43 .

[Eromenos]

Pacifien wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
Why would it be odd if he or she is a switch-hitter? You're making an excuse to defend ME3 in the likely event that it will continue to exclude M/M while expanding on current and past exploitations of F/F.

You have taken my post out of context as it was a response to someone who said they would find the concept odd. I believe no such thing.

BioWare went far to dodge any labeling of sexuality in ME1 and ME2 in its bid to try and have everything both ways. Implications: M/F + F/F? Standard, accepted. M/M? Nonexistent, not worth dwelling upon.



Try as I might, I can't make John Shepard's line about being exclusively for the men play out, but that's hardly surprising. Since I did not dabble with the M/F or F/F I'm not sure if the heterosexual equivalents to that statement were allowed to ship in retail. Either way...it doesn't matter even if a Shepard proclaims a liking for only one sex. People do sometimes change. Some do, some don't.

It seemed to me that you were the one who believes a concept of fluid attraction is odd. I interpreted that as justification for the ME universe's rigid dismissal of M/M.

Modifié par Eromenos, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:53 .

[MisterDyslexo]

Eromenos wrote...
Either way...it doesn't matter even if a Shepard proclaims a liking for only one sex. People do sometimes change. Some do, some don't.

Funny story. FemShep can tell Liara "I'm only interested in men." and in the next game hit on Samara, and "have dinner" with Kelly. So much for "Consistency"

[shumworld]

I don't see anything wrong with there being a Male-LI option for Male-Shepard. I'll just do what I did in DA:O with Zevran.

Zevran asked me if it's okay for him to find me attractive. I said it's okay for you to find me attractive, but realize I'm not that kind of guy. Zevran says okay and he never brought that subject up again, we still became good friends since we're both elves.

In ME3, if any of my male crew mates were to ask me if it's possible to pursue a relationship with my male-Shepard I'll say no I'm not that kind of guy. There problem solved the M/M romance option is still available for other players while I remain role playing a hetero Shepard.

Seriously folks, Shepard can be a man or a woman, renegade or paragon, they can be any ethnicity, both genders can be straight, girls can be bisexual or lesbian, I see nothing wrong with the male version of Shepard being gay.

Modifié par shumworld, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:57 .

[Eromenos]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
Either way...it doesn't matter even if a Shepard proclaims a liking for only one sex. People do sometimes change. Some do, some don't.

Funny story. FemShep can tell Liara "I'm only interested in men." and in the next game hit on Samara, and "have dinner" with Kelly. So much for "Consistency"

Yep. Funny how ME1 and ME2 won't allow sexual ambiguity for the males. ME3 feels like yet another chance to fail.

[colossus50000]

I Disagree with this thread being started again.

[Pacifien]

Eromenos wrote...
It seemed to me that you were the one who believes a concept of fluid attraction is odd. I interpreted that as justification for the ME universe's rigid dismissal of M/M.

What? No seriously, what?

[jlb524]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
Either way...it doesn't matter even if a Shepard proclaims a liking for only one sex. People do sometimes change. Some do, some don't.

Funny story. FemShep can tell Liara "I'm only interested in men." and in the next game hit on Samara, and "have dinner" with Kelly. So much for "Consistency"

So true.

[Pacifien]

Let's not talk about whether you agree or disagree with the thread's existence and stick to discussing the subject of the thread in a civil manner. If you feel a thread is inappropriate for the public forums, you are welcome to send a PM to the forum administrator Chris Priestly to express your concerns. Thank you.

[MisterDyslexo]

@Shumworld

A lot of the opposition just comes from the fear that "I'll be hot-on by another dude". Its certainly not too unreasonable a thing to feel unconrtable by this happening. There's been extremely vocal backlash from things like this in the past, a prime example being Fargoth from The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind. He would say just one line from a few randomized ones when you walked by showing that he has some interest in you. People, flipped, out. I've never seen anything like it. Tbh, I have a moment like this with Tali in ME2. I'll just quote myself from earlier:

MisterDyslexo wrote...

I avoid Tali like the plague. She
reminds me a lot of my sister, and I realize that she could be seen as a
stereotypical homicidal Palestinian (not myself judging her). So when
she's hitting on me, the back of my mind pictures my sister in a bloody
burka waving a Kalashnikov wishing death upon an entire nation. Thats definitely not something I want to
romance.

Its enough for me to avoid it, but other people seem to want it. So the simple answer is just have Shepard engage all the romance dialogue. Bioware's done a good job of that so far. Its completely avoidable with Miranda as MaleShep, and Jack only inquires if you're interested in her, rather than starting it. Garrus' is completely self initiated-you need to hit three lines of dialogue for it to begin. Thane's I honestly don't know, and Jacob's can sneak up on you, but like I said is avoidable. It wasn't quite this way in the first one, where you usually got forced into saying something that made you feel like an ****, or kill them instead 
They just need to keep it like ME2 and everything should be fine in ME3. It seems most people who realize this are just those "Well I don't want you to have 'x' because I have 'y' ", and to me a good analogy is the console war between Xbox 360 and PS3-****ting on each others preffered gaming device because they're bitter and insecure. Not only is this illigoical, but bitter as hell and something that no developer of any kind of product that has any pride in itself should cater to.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 17 décembre 2010 - 03:18 .

[Nightodie]

I personally think that in 175 years this will not be an issue. I think love is love, and who doesn't want to be loved.



Shouldn't we have a choice of who to romance? Be it male, female, human or alien... I think it's fun to experiment, and having free choice would make it more fun and more replayable.

[Walrusninja]

I get why people want all options open, but I think it'd maybe be hard to integrate nicely.
If every single squadmate went through a "hey, is that a gun in your holster..." dialogue, then you'd have a 100% bi crew which would be .... really odd:? It would seem really clunky,

Some people are just straight, others are just gay or whatever. If they did integrate it, there should be a "nah Shephard I'm not into that" for npcs too. Realistic. I'm all for Bioware deciding what the squadmates sexuality's are, they make the characters, they can do what they want. Shephard could be an open book for players though.

It would have to be incredibly carefully handled. Straight dudes don't want to listen to their straight Shephard chat up Jacob to get to the "I'm not gay" line, and vice versa.

Modifié par Walrusninja, 17 décembre 2010 - 03:26 .

[Pacifien]

Walrusninja wrote...
Straight dudes don't want to listen to their straight Shephard chat up jacob to get to the "I'm not gay" line, and vice versa.

Whereas straight ladies only wish their Shepard could have told Jacob they were gay.

[MisterDyslexo]

Walrusninja wrote...
It would have to be incredibly carefully handled. Straight dudes don't want to listen to their straight Shephard chat up jacob to get to the "I'm not gay" line, and vice versa.

Tons of simple solutions for this. Romance-dialogue indicated by symbols or colour (check first page) would be very easy to do, and it would benefit all romances-straight or gay. And the other half of the problem is solved in that as well-not having them hit on you, and initiating it all yourself. If you get into a romance of any kind that you don't want to be in it'd only be yourself to blame for that.

Edit: Poll on colour-dialogue is here
http://social.biowar...11/polls/11746/

Pacifien wrote...

Walrusninja wrote...
Straight
dudes don't want to listen to their straight Shephard chat up jacob to
get to the "I'm not gay" line, and vice versa.

Whereas straight ladies only wish their Shepard could have told Jacob they were gay.

I wished Bioware kept in the gay option so I could go up to him and say "Congrats Jacob, you turned me straight."
Nobody likes Jacob:devil:

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 17 décembre 2010 - 03:32 .

[jlb524]

Walrusninja wrote...

I get why people want all options open, but I think it'd maybe be hard to integrate nicely.
If every single squadmate went through a "hey, is that a gun in your holster..." dialogue, then you'd have a 100% bi crew which would be .... really odd:? It would seem really clunky,

I don't think the purpose of this thread is to make everyone bi.  But, it would be nice to have one m/m option somewhere.

Walrusninja wrote...
It would have to be incredibly carefully handled. Straight dudes don't want to listen to their straight Shephard chat up Jacob to get to the "I'm not gay" line, and vice versa.

They just have to deal with it.  I RP my FemSheps lesbian, but I have to deal with the possibility of getting into a romance with three male squadmates in ME2...romances I don't want.  I just turn them down...simple.   The fact that these guys are interested in my Shepard doesn't make her any less gay or interested in any less interested women or any more interested in men.   I know she's gay, and she acts appropriately when propositioned by the opposite sex.

Modifié par jlb524, 17 décembre 2010 - 03:31 .

[Walrusninja]

Ye, well to be completely honest, I adore your games Bioware, but the ME2 romances were a bit .............. tunneled. You had to like chat people up every time to get to the "dude I hate you" line.

Modifié par Walrusninja, 17 décembre 2010 - 03:32 .

[Walrusninja]

jlb - problems in ME2 should not be doubled and put in 3, instead they need a whole new approach maybe.



Mister what do you feel on the idea of Bioware deciding if certain squadmates won't be interested in a same sex relationship?

[Pacifien]

Walrusninja wrote...
Mister what do you feel on the idea of Bioware deciding if certain squadmates won't be interested in a same sex relationship?

BioWare has already done this in their other games, and it's realistic for them to continue doing so. So a gay Warden can't get it on with Alistair, but Zevran is fair game. The difference is that the option exists. Which is why I advocate Big Ben Sniper Guy for male Shepard love interest in Mass Effect 3.

[jlb524]

Walrusninja wrote...

jlb - problems in ME2 should not be doubled and put in 3, instead they need a whole new approach maybe.

Huh?

Walrusninja wrote...
Mister what do you feel on the idea of Bioware deciding if certain squadmates won't be interested in a same sex relationship?

Am I 'mister'?  

Well, BW already did decide that certain squadmates aren't interested in same sex romances.  It's possible for them to include a new squad mate that is, though, or have Joker be gay and the male PC can have a romance with him similar to Kelly's in ME2. 

Plus, I don't feel it's necessarily 'bad' if one past hetero only LI is now open to same sex relationships in ME3.  There are many plausible explanations for this to occur.  

But, basically, are you asking if I have problems with hetero-only LIs because I don't.

[War Houndoom]

Both games almost force down your throat of having to choose a love interest unless you choose your dialogue carefully. I'm a gay man, I don't want my commander shepard to be straight so I have to be extra careful when I'm playing to avoid the female NPC's dialogue and that is very annoying because it sometimes forces me to choose dialogue options that I normally wouldn't choose, such as the renegade option to avoid romance between a female, bioware should address this issue.