9243 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Pacifien wrote...

Walrusninja wrote...
Mister what do you feel on the idea of Bioware deciding if certain squadmates won't be interested in a same sex relationship?

BioWare has already done this in their other games, and it's realistic for them to continue doing so. So a gay Warden can't get it on with Alistair, but Zevran is fair game. The difference is that the option exists. Which is why I advocate Big Ben Sniper Guy for male Shepard love interest in Mass Effect 3.

Me too...he would be a great option!

[MisterDyslexo]

Walrusninja wrote...
Mister what do you feel on the idea of Bioware deciding if certain squadmates won't be interested in a same sex relationship?

It'd make sense to me. Not everybody IRL is bisexual, so while bisexualizing everybody may be simple, it isn't logical or practical. One could argue there isn't much demand for an exclusively gay romance, however, so the bisexualizing certain characters would be the only solution.

Its strange though because a lot of characters seem like they could be bisexual.
-Jack said she's been intimate with at least one woman before, and says "boyfriend or girlfriend", implying she's interested in both.
-For Tali I'd think that the transpecies thing is a bigger deal than the fact that they're the same gender.
-For Miranda, she a little obsessive over Shepard regardless, so an attraction would be plausible there too.
-Garrus' role-model is Shepard, and this creates two arguments for having a m/m romance with him. One is that he would be more likely to actually being together, since he has more sway. Another is that since they're the same gender, his emphasis on being a more-similar role-model than FemShep would be can be used against the argument.
-For Thane, it in a way can make more sense to be romanceable with MaleShep than femShep (I'll dig up some post and maybe a thread explaining this)

As for Jacob, Kaidan, and Ashley, there really isn't anything indicating that they'd swing that way. Since Ash and Kaid s/s romance was cut, there's nothing thats in their current character to support this idea really. You could say though that it was a simple case of Ash/Kaidan having a "I'm ******/bisexual, lets not make a big deal out of this" thing going on.

In a way, it actually makes sense to bisexualize most of them because it fits their personality.

[Jagged Orchid]

Walrusninja wrote...

It would have to be incredibly carefully handled. Straight dudes don't want to listen to their straight Shephard chat up Jacob to get to the "I'm not gay" line, and vice versa.

I don't think that would be an issue. In the other games, anything there is a s/s romance, the dialog is pretty obvious. Therefore, if your Shepard is not interested, they can turn down said character.

My Shepard is only attracted to women. If a male character (Kaidan for instance) hits on her, she is not required to romance him. She can tell him that she is not interested.

Adding such an option does not hurt anything. It's not going to turn straight characters gay. In fact if someone is not interested in partaking in such an option, they are not required to do so.

[Walrusninja]

Ye it was well done in DA, for sure. I never even realised the Zev dialogue until I started messing around and clicking every option. Someone who was looking for it would've found it no problemo though, so all was great there.



I duno, we'll have to see what type of dude he is. Hope he's in the game though.

[jlb524]

War Houndoom wrote...

Both games almost force down your throat of having to choose a love interest unless you choose your dialogue carefully. I'm a gay man, I don't want my commander shepard to be straight so I have to be extra careful when I'm playing to avoid the female NPC's dialogue and that is very annoying because it sometimes forces me to choose dialogue options that I normally wouldn't choose, such as the renegade option to avoid romance between a female, bioware should address this issue.

Not only that, but you have Gianna Parasini giving all MaleShepards a kiss in ME2.  I'm sure you don't like that, but it still doesn't make your gay Commander Shepard any less gay b/c a woman is showing signs of romantic affection towards him.  This stuff happens all the time in real life.

This is why I don't understand those that wish to play a straight Shepard when they say they don't want a man hitting on them...that won't make them any less straight.  They still have the option to turn him down.

[Pacifien]

War Houndoom wrote...
Both games almost force down your throat of having to choose a love interest unless you choose your dialogue carefully.*snip*

This I agree with and feel it's an issue outside of the entire heterosexual/homosexual relationship debate. Conversations shouldn't really be geared toward whether they're going to end up romantic interests or not. A person who has no interest in romancing Jack should get the same opportunity to get to know her as someone who is romancing her, albeit with a different type of experience. There's definitely an issue here when someone has to come up with a guide on how not to romance someone in ME1 by accident.

[MisterDyslexo]

Pacifien wrote...

Walrusninja wrote...
Mister what do you feel on the idea of Bioware deciding if certain squadmates won't be interested in a same sex relationship?

BioWare has already done this in their other games, and it's realistic for them to continue doing so. So a gay Warden can't get it on with Alistair, but Zevran is fair game. The difference is that the option exists. Which is why I advocate Big Ben Sniper Guy for male Shepard love interest in Mass Effect 3.

To me, it makes sense for Alistair to be straight. He could end up being the king, and as far as I know, two kings on the throne doesn't fly because it doesn't result in procreation. It affects the plot directly, so I'm perfectly fine with that. Same with Morrigan, since you can only do the whole "Old God Baby Soul Ritual" thing if you impregnate her, which other women can't do.

However, romance has never directly affected the plot in Mass Effect, so there's no reason binded by plot to ne straight. "They just are" is the only real reason in the ME series, which while it does make sense, doesn't look very good when they're all exclusively heterosexual.

[Pacifien]

Phantom Actuality wrote...
Not a wide open choice

"We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open."

Yes, but the problem here is that the developers are wrong and I'm right.

[MisterDyslexo]

Pacifien wrote...

Phantom Actuality wrote...
Not a wide open choice

"We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open."

Yes, but the problem here is that the developers are wrong and I'm right.

I found a new addition to my sig

Btw, if anything I say confuses you, feel free to ask what I mean by "dot-dot-dot". I understand I'm not the most coherent writer, and I'm trying my best to amend that.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 17 décembre 2010 - 03:56 .

[Walrusninja]

I'm cool with whatever Bioware decide to do as long as they don't tamper with previously set characters. That bit's done, those characters are quite defined already be it for better or worse for them as a character, they are what they are. Unless there's some "underlying relationship all along" story or something. But it needs to make sense if you'e going to alter the beloved characters. For example, Wrex, the brutal no nonsense killing machine hitting on me when I met him again, coming from a warring society of ferocious manhood, breeding pride and all that jazz, would be totally "what?!".

I'd rather they simply pick up the problem with ME3 and address it appropriately there.

Thanks for the reply Mister, appreciate it. Food for thought.

Modifié par Walrusninja, 17 décembre 2010 - 03:56 .

[Pacifien]

Walrusninja wrote...
For example, Wrex, the brutal no nonsense killing machine hitting on me when I met him again, coming from a warring society of ferocious manhood, breeding pride and all that jazz, would be totally "what?!".

"Wrex."
"Shepard."
"You know, there are other options besides female krogan."
"I don't swing that way, Shepard."

Modifié par Pacifien, 17 décembre 2010 - 03:59 .

[jlb524]

Phantom Actuality wrote...

Not a wide open choice

"We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open."

There's so much wrong here.  First off, during ME2, they marketed the game as allowing one to live their own space adventure via the cool game that is ME2.  That doesn't seem so pre-defined to me.    Also, there's a contraction.  If Shepard is 'pre-defined' to be straight, then why can the Female version be played as gay or bi?  For this to hold, either the female version needs to be cut from the game (and it's all about uber straight ManShep) or the female version cannot have any same-sex opportunities.  We know that both are untrue, as the female version of 'Shepard' is a part of the game and she can have two same-sex relationships (Liara and Kelly) as well as show an interest in Samara. 

Modifié par jlb524, 17 décembre 2010 - 04:01 .

[Walrusninja]

When is that line? If it is in, I missed it, and it doesn't seem terribly "realistic"

[Pacifien]

Walrusninja wrote...
When is that line? If it is in, I missed it, and it doesn't seem terribly "realistic":?

It's a line a friend of mine made up about a half hour ago.

[War Houndoom]

Pacifien wrote...

War Houndoom wrote...
Both games almost force down your throat of having to choose a love interest unless you choose your dialogue carefully.*snip*

This I agree with and feel it's an issue outside of the entire heterosexual/homosexual relationship debate. Conversations shouldn't really be geared toward whether they're going to end up romantic interests or not. A person who has no interest in romancing Jack should get the same opportunity to get to know her as someone who is romancing her, albeit with a different type of experience. There's definitely an issue here when someone has to come up with a guide on how not to romance someone in ME1 by accident.

But the problem isn't just located in ME-1, also in ME-2 so we need someone to write two guides, one for both games. Also maybe a guide on how to set up Shepard having a same-sex relationship for ME-3 because some dialogue with Kaiden is preety questionable.

[jlb524]

I do find it odd that ME2 is telling us that most species are open to inter-species dating (not just the asari) but their attraction still must follow the heterosexual norm. This baffles me.

[MisterDyslexo]

Walrusninja wrote...

Thanks for the reply Mister, appreciate it. Food for thought.

There used to be a thread in which it discussed Thane's love with Shepard and how his solipsism of his former wife would affect it, but it appears to have been deleted. Instead, I'll just repost something I wrote not too long ago, and if you need more explaining as to why Thane could be gay/bi, I'll happily do so.

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Marta Rio wrote...


Why
does Thane make more sense as a LI for Maleshep?  As far as I can tell
nothing in ME2 indicates that he enjoys the human male form. 

No,
but remember male is a different gender than female, as in the sex of
his dead wife, of which he remembers every last second. In Thane's mind
with DemShip, he's always seeing his wife, since they're both female.
She would be filling the void of his dead wife, and not beng her own
figure. At least one could argue that. Speingboarding off of that, he
would perceive MaleShep differently, so he wouldn't be replacing a hole
in his heart with a similar image, but rather opening to him. Thats how I
see it anyways. Its been observed IRL, so that definitely supports the
theory.

Then again I never manced him, but rather just saw every possible  interaction unfold.

[MisterDyslexo]

jlb524 wrote...

I do find it odd that ME2 is telling us that most species are open to inter-species dating (not just the asari) but their attraction still must follow the heterosexual norm. This baffles me.

One of the reasons I stated that it would make sense that Tali could be 'manced by FemShep.

I don't get their logic either, for the record.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 17 décembre 2010 - 04:10 .

[Walrusninja]

Ah:p



It's not that I'm agaisnt the concept in any way of a species like the Krogan having very different sexual views than ours. As Lovey rightly said, they aren't human.



The thing is, they breed to have sons or if they're really lucky a daughter, to preserve their people. I don't remember anything at all about actual relationships. Breeding was important and a point of pride, it wasn't a romantic thing so much. It was the sort of 1+1 = future, approach. There was not really any personal thought or desire shown, it was duty and their way of life. They only bred for practical and essential reasons. If it wasn't needed they probably would've continued murdering things.