9243 réponses à ce sujet

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Phantom Actuality wrote...

Oh Really?  Well what about that gay Grey Warden fellow?  How does that fit into your equation?  Although your post is not based in fact, it would at least hold more water if Bioware didn't include Gay content in DA, which was released after ME1.  Not to mention the fact that homosexual relationships exist in Bioware games other than DA, that go back several years.

Pretty sure I said... "mass effect" at the beginning of the post... but anywho,

I thought the warden is bi since you can romance anyone you want in the game.... There is no gay content, there are either straight romances or bi romances if I'm not mistaken? Then again, I haven't played Awakening...so maybe there is?

[JaylaClark]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

I also wanna add.... while I'm all for homosexuality as well as heterosexuality in mass effect (and any other game) as I think people should have as many choices as they can in a game so they can pick what suits them the best (there should be at least one strictly gay romance for a male and female, at least one bi romance, and at least one hetero for male and female).... there are a couple reasons why you don't see shepard, well dudeshep, as a gay hero or more gay romances, relationships, w/e in game...

1. B/c bioware knows that they would receive more criticism from reviewers and places like fox and religious groups.... potentially hurting their sales.

and

2. It's gonna stay that way until gays aren't perceived as evil or wrong in our society.... before it can happen in a video game, it's gotta happen IRL.

my two cents.

See ... that's actually backwards from my perspective.  Traditionally movies and TV, at least, have been ahead of the curve in difficult social questions (I don't even need to mention The Lillies of the Fields, The Birdcage and Will and Grace, do I?), and I think that games are mature enough that they should be able to do the same.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

JaylaClark wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

I also wanna add.... while I'm all for homosexuality as well as heterosexuality in mass effect (and any other game) as I think people should have as many choices as they can in a game so they can pick what suits them the best (there should be at least one strictly gay romance for a male and female, at least one bi romance, and at least one hetero for male and female).... there are a couple reasons why you don't see shepard, well dudeshep, as a gay hero or more gay romances, relationships, w/e in game...

1. B/c bioware knows that they would receive more criticism from reviewers and places like fox and religious groups.... potentially hurting their sales.

and

2. It's gonna stay that way until gays aren't perceived as evil or wrong in our society.... before it can happen in a video game, it's gotta happen IRL.

my two cents.

See ... that's actually backwards from my perspective.  Traditionally movies and TV, at least, have been ahead of the curve in difficult social questions (I don't even need to mention The Lillies of the Fields, The Birdcage and Will and Grace, do I?), and I think that games are mature enough that they should be able to do the same.

I think they should be mature enough to do so as well.... but my point was, that's why I think they won't do it... b/c society still thinks "gays are bad mkay".

[jlb524]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

I thought the warden is bi since you can romance anyone you want in the game.... There is no gay content, there are either straight romances or bi romances if I'm not mistaken? Then again, I haven't played Awakening...so maybe there is?

No, the Warden isn't bi b/c you can romance anyone you want.  The Warden's sexuality is of your own making.  Straight, gay, or bi.

The other characters are straight or bi, and how you choose to interact with them defines your PCs sexuality.

[Ryzaki]

Phantom Actuality wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
It's cute though how you think your post is edgy and mature by telling me things I already know.

Ok Nostradamus.

Is that supposed to be significant or are you still trying to be cute? 

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...


Honestly, I don't see why this Big Ben dude is so interesting. He's just some random soldier. =/

and I don't see why people are so worked up over this. It's a game.

The voice.

And double standards irritate me no matter what form they're in.

[Eromenos]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

AshiraShepard wrote...

Okay, so I'm not sleeping.

Morinth preys on Shepard. Regardless of gender.

NOW I'll go to sleep. Or at least leave the god damn site alone. Third times to the wretched charm.

No kidding. But you and I know that a woman who kills the girls she sleeps with becomes instantly branded lesbian forever by a significant portion of the general population. See any similarities to the ignorance toward priests who molest boys? This happens to be the "evil-lesbian" stereotype persisting here.

Okay, you lost me. Nef appeared to be a teenager to me. Those years for most are tumultous and a time of self-discovery. If Nef were perhaps somewhat older, maybe around Shep's age, then it would be different. But I just see it as a timid girl who was unsure about her sexuality getting killed by a vampire. Vampires in fiction are generally "bisexual" because it gives them twice as many options, and their gender never really affects their character or actions. I've never seen anybody refer to Nef as a lesbian because of that. If anything, she was a bigger target because of this (as wel as her artistic ability). Morinth is 400 years old, so I think she could've learned a little something about teenagedom (?) and sexual discovery and used it.

The branding I spoke of is used by the public against Morinth, not on Nef.

Nef was indeed at that stage of life as you described. But do you also remember her description of how else she felt about Morinth? The girl was high on Morinth, and not just out of teenage love. Samara likes to remind us of the symptoms Morinth creates in her victims and I'm sure she remarked that Nef's behavior was the result of Morinth's influence.

Either way, I do not forgive the aura of menace and sinister intent that's associated with Morinth from the start. Her mother labels her a monster to be imprisoned or destroyed, and I agree to an extent, but BioWare is deplorable to draw upon homophobia as an inspired parallel to the misfortunes of "inbreeding." Someone mentioned earlier, we're given zero counterbalance.

[Ryzaki]

How would it not make any sense? The ME series is bias against the inclusion of M/M options while DA isn't.



What exactly about that is hard to understand?

[JaylaClark]

jlb524 wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

I thought the warden is bi since you can romance anyone you want in the game.... There is no gay content, there are either straight romances or bi romances if I'm not mistaken? Then again, I haven't played Awakening...so maybe there is?

No, the Warden isn't bi b/c you can romance anyone you want.  The Warden's sexuality is of your own making.  Straight, gay, or bi.

The other characters are straight or bi, and how you choose to interact with them defines your PCs sexuality.

That's a valid point... while you can't make your character exclusively gay in game mechanics terms (though you can in a functional way regarding your interactions with the other love interests)... Leliana has the question where you can flirtingly say you're interested in her, say you don't mind she sleeps with women, or (I guess) express heteronormative disgust.  I presume male Wardens get the same option with Zev.

Whereas in Mass Effect... you really can't declare femShep to be anything.  I think that according to the story mechanics she's bisexual, but she's never given the option to declare her opinion like she does with religious beliefs and Ashley.  Still, you can roleplay her as being a faithful-to-Liara lesbian ... or an unfaithful lesbian, if one would so choose... though I have no idea why they would.  (I'm horribly biased, though .)

[Eromenos]

kill_switch_423 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Gotcha. My point is that ME1 and ME2 have no gay characters, despite Morinth's personality and activities which would brand her as an evil lesbian in our own broader society. So she's made into a gay villain. We also see gay victims. But where are the gay heroes? The gay normals? Absent, because BioWare is content to rely on villainy and victimhood to categorize the queer community's presence in ME.

This.

While I can understand your view on this, I don't think BW is 'relying' on villainy and victimhood to categorize anybody.  I just think it's all been blown a little out of proportion, and that some are looking past the good in the game to focus on the bad.  Personally, I still think going from only straight options to at least a few bisexual options is at least a half step in the right direction.  After all, Bisexuality is the halfway point between Heterosexual and homosexual, correct?  I just can't recall any other games covering the subject at all as a viable option for characters.  I agree that some of the content of the game can be seen in the way you've described, however I don't think the majority will get the same impression.

@ryn:  I apologize that you thought I was calling those of you supporting the argument ignorant.  I meant that the thing you are afraid of, the people who decide that homosexuality is bad based off of the game, are ignorant.

Ah...about looking for trouble...some of us have no choice but to see it and call it. There is so little representation for us that I'm always analyzing and poking holes into the frameworks which actively or inactively exclude us. I've been familiar with BioWare's history long enough to know that their prolonged silence and evasion on this matter is an active exclusion against queer gamers. <_<

[jlb524]

JaylaClark wrote...

Whereas in Mass Effect... you really can't declare femShep to be anything.  I think that according to the story mechanics she's bisexual, but she's never given the option to declare her opinion like she does with religious beliefs and Ashley.  Still, you can roleplay her as being a faithful-to-Liara lesbian ... or an unfaithful lesbian, if one would so choose... though I have no idea why they would.  (I'm horribly biased, though .)

I don't know why they would either 

But, I see your point...you can never declare you sexuality in word, just in action.

[Ryzaki]

...So saying one franchise of a game is bias and insulting but another isn't is a contradiction?

Let me define what a contradiction is for you:

Contradiction: ▶ noun a combination of statements, ideas, or features of a situation that are opposed to one another: the proposed new system suffers from a set of internal contradictions.
• a person, thing, or situation in which inconsistent elements are present: the paradox of using force to overcome force is a real contradiction.

• the statement of a position opposite to one already made: the second sentence appears to be in flat contradiction of the first | the experiment provides a contradiction of the hypothesis.

▶ phrases

contradiction in terms a statement or group of words associating objects or ideas that are incompatible: “true fiction” is a contradiction in terms.

ORIGIN: late Middle English: via Old French from Latin contradictio(n-), from the verb contradicere (see contradict).

Let me give you an example:

"The man is a coward, but he is brave." 

That is a contradiction.

"The man's friend is a coward, but he is brave." 

That is not a contadiction.

Mass Effect has bad examples of homosexual relationships.

Not a contradiction.

Mass Effect has bad examples of homosexual relationships, while Dragon Age's are better.

Not a contradiction.

Guess what I was saying? <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 décembre 2010 - 08:46 .

[jlb524]

Phantom Actuality wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

How would it not make any sense? The ME series is bias against the inclusion of M/M options while DA isn't.

What exactly about that is hard to understand?

Don't you see the contradiction?

Como?

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

Whereas in Mass Effect... you really can't declare femShep to be anything.  I think that according to the story mechanics she's bisexual, but she's never given the option to declare her opinion like she does with religious beliefs and Ashley.  Still, you can roleplay her as being a faithful-to-Liara lesbian ... or an unfaithful lesbian, if one would so choose... though I have no idea why they would.  (I'm horribly biased, though .)

I don't know why they would either 

But, I see your point...you can never declare you sexuality in word, just in action.

And you can declare your sexuality in Dragon Age (to an extent) you have more opportunities for actions as well.

Which is pretty much why I laud DA as the superior game.

[Ryzaki]

And that's not what I said so your arguement is invalid. I always brought up the examples in Mass Effect.I said the ME series was backpeddling and cowardly. I didn't say such about Dragon Age. 

Asari? You know those "things" exclusive to Mass Effect? Yeah. You didn't hear me bring up Dragon Age in a discussion about Mass Effect on a Mass Effect Forum.

Now I did say BW instead of the ME team but since we were on the ME boards I didn't feel I had to clarify.

You might want to get who you're speaking to straight.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 décembre 2010 - 08:49 .

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

And you can declare your sexuality in Dragon Age (to an extent) you have more opportunities for actions as well.

Which is pretty much why I laud DA as the superior game.

Yes, yes, I agree.

[JaylaClark]

jlb524 wrote...

Phantom Actuality wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

How would it not make any sense? The ME series is bias against the inclusion of M/M options while DA isn't.

What exactly about that is hard to understand?

Don't you see the contradiction?

Como?

Oh, I see.  Phantom Actuality is presuming we all have an issue with BioWare's supposed bias against gays.  There's been a line or two earlier in the thread suggesting one or two people have issues with Dragon Age's portrayal, but I'm not sure if anyone still in the conversation is.

Of course, it's the Mass Effect General Discussion forum ...

[jlb524]

@Phantom Actuality



You keep on repeating a post not made by Ryzaki but attribute it to them...why?

[jlb524]

JaylaClark wrote...


Oh, I see.  Phantom Actuality is presuming we all have an issue with BioWare's supposed bias against gays.  There's been a line or two earlier in the thread suggesting one or two people have issues with Dragon Age's portrayal, but I'm not sure if anyone still in the conversation is.

Of course, it's the Mass Effect General Discussion forum ...

I don't have an issue with BioWares' bias against gays.  I have an issue with our society's bias against gays, which get reflected in all media (BioWare included).  It's not entirely their fault, really.

[Ryzaki]

/blinks

What on earth are you talking about? Why are you quoting something I didn't say?

It's not even like the poster and I have similar avatars.

I posted the contradiction because for some reason you seem to think I'm contradicting myself by saying ME was exploitative while DA wasn't.

You know the whole "quoting you to state the obvious" nonsense.

Unless you don't think I was contradicting myself which means this is some weird misunderstanding.

And I never quoted that post.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 décembre 2010 - 08:58 .

[ElitePinecone]

Just a friendly reminder to try and stick to the topic of this thread - ways and means to potentially implement s/s romances in future Mass Effect games, including Mass Effect 3. ******-for-tat personal arguments and discussions of Bioware's motivations are off-topic, and potentially unhelpful if they detract from the point of this thread or lead to it being locked.

Having read through 9 pages, I only just found this:

Pacifen wrote...
Yes, but the problem here is that the developers are wrong and I'm right.

/Edited for really weirdly long gap. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 17 décembre 2010 - 09:31 .