9243 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Phantom Actuality wrote...

The fact that the only homosexual realtionships may or may have not been displayed as negative portrayels, didn't even dawn on me when I was playing the game.  I'm just not looking at it that way.  I understand what you're saying, but I don't know if the lack of more said postive relationships, really has an impact on an individual, unless that indivual is consciously looking out for it.  I can't say for sure, but I don't think that most people that played the game got a negative impression of homosexuals because Nef was killed by Morinth, and there wasn't any postiive relationships to make up for it.  I can say that it wasn't even a blip on my radar. 

True, most aren't going to consciously register this.  I think all our experiences add up and influence our beliefs about things, sometimes this is subconscious.

The gamer isn't going to sit there and go, 'Oh wow, lesbians are crazy murderers' while playing the mission, but this experience could subconsciously color ones perseption of a lesbian they would meet down the road, or of lesbians they see in other media.

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Bioware has a community for speak about what they would like to see in their games. A same-gendered romance for a Male Shepard happens to be one of those things. This Forum is for discussing anything related to Mass Effect series. And guess what? Same gendered romances is such a topic related to the series. Just because someone may de-rationalize that Asari are not female doesn't exclude the fact that they have all the curves necessary to be viewed as a female by viewers.

[MisterDyslexo]

redbaron76 wrote...
I am just saying that I am sick of reading politiccal opinions on a forum of a great game. Political views should stay of this forums, because there are people like me that do not appriciate politics in the game forums.

The game is very, very political. I could point out specific examples and say what they allude to IRL.

Geth-Quarian = Israel-Palestine conflict
Batarian-Human conflict = Cold War
Rachni Wars = WWI
Korgan Rebellions = WWII, Napoeonic Wars
Cerberus = CIA

Those are just conflicts. Don't get me started on the other things.

If you wanted to avoid politics, you should've just avoided the forums

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 18 décembre 2010 - 01:59 .

[Ryzaki]

And the game itself considers them female.



And Liara's quote says that she's not exactly a "woman" which is correct. She's not a female human. She's a female though.

[ElitePinecone]

redbaron76 wrote...

 So people should stop promoting political agenda in the games.

I suppose all the commentary in Bioware games on relations between species, gender roles, military conduct, religion, forced abductions, corporate power, transhumanism, xenophobia and discrimination should be excluded also? That, too, is obviously political.

Sure, you can just have your shooter game where Shepard fights a race of sentient machines with kick-ass weapons. But that'd be a fairly mundane game. Mass Effect is rightly lauded not just for its main plot, or its gameplay, or its guns, but also its mature writing, willingness to tackle big questions and challenging characters. The presence of politics only enhances the story, it doesn't detract from it. 

[Eromenos]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Eromenos: Don't you think that's a bit harsh? I mean granted Leliana couldn't be refused most of the damn time but Zevran was there if nothing else.

Even if I hated the slimey little cretin.

Sorry, I really don't know what you're getting at about Leiliana.

Gaider has no defense. I hear he was the principle writer for Zevran. Lead writer for the game, too.

The plot excuses I've seen for excluding Alistair and Morrigan from M/M and F/F do not hold water with me. Alistair and his male Warden lover can nominate Anora or Alistair's relatives from his childhood home as his heirs. PIty the kingdom that must have arl and arlessa of Red Cliff(?) as their rulers...

Morrigan can ask her female Warden either to convince Alistair or Lothair(?) to...lie with Morrigan...or to deposit his semen in a bowl. And it can be done with all the heartache and drama used with any male Warden, only minus one option due to biology.

That didn't take long for me to think up. There's always been the option to not give Morrigan what she wants anyway.

[Ryzaki]

Eromenos wrote...

Sorry, I really don't know what you're getting at about Leiliana.

Gaider has no defense. I hear he was the principle writer for Zevran. Lead writer for the game, too.

The plot excuses I've seen for excluding Alistair and Morrigan from M/M and F/F do not hold water with me. Alistair and his male Warden lover can nominate Anora or Alistair's relatives from his childhood home as his heirs. PIty the kingdom that must have arl and arlessa of Red Cliff(?) as their rulers...

Morrigan can ask her female Warden either to convince Alistair or Lothair(?) to...lie with Morrigan...or to deposit his semen in a bowl. And it can be done with all the heartache and drama used with any male Warden, only minus one option due to biology.

That didn't take long for me to think up. There's always been the option to not give Morrigan what she wants anyway.

Yeah but that sort of leads to death.

Though I feel your pain about Ali/Morri not being romanceable while two characters who have no real importance to the plot were s/s options. 

And really I though the plot excuses were pretty weak too but Morrigan is pretty easily manipulated by Flemeth.


about Leliana: she has a bug where you will constantly end up romancing her as a female. It's really annoying because then you're forced to break it off.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 décembre 2010 - 02:14 .

[Siansonea]

redbaron76 wrote...

The only troll is you.

I am not dissing anybody. I am just saying that I am sick of reading politiccal opinions on a forum of a great game. Political views should stay of this forums, because there are people like me that do not appriciate politics in the game forums.

It's a shame that you're being forced to read all this...oh wait, you decided to read all this. Why don't you do something else, like play Mass Effect 2 instead? It's all fine and good that you don't like politics in game forums, but guess what? The entire Internet community doesn't have to stop discussing something just because you don't like it. You're just not that important to us, I'm sorry if that is a disappointment. Silver lining: you can get glad in the same pants you get mad in.

Anyway, back to the political discussion. I don't think anyone here really wants to let BioWare off the hook for making some really poor choices when it comes to the implementation of same-sex content in the Mass Effect games. They haven't gotten it right so far, this thread wouldn't exist if they had. I think what most people are saying is that it's not going to accomplish anything to simply rant at them about how awful they are. They know how we feel, we've called shenanigans on them every time they've attempted 'spin' and every time they've failed to implement adequate content.

We are consumers, period. People who pay money for a game BioWare makes. All we can do is ask them to give us certain types of content, and hope they do it. We can't make them do anything. Those guys will do what they want to do, and we can buy their game or leave it on the shelf. If you really feel strongly about things one way or the other, vote with your wallet.

[Eromenos]

Ryzaki wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Sorry, I really don't know what you're getting at about Leiliana.

Gaider has no defense. I hear he was the principle writer for Zevran. Lead writer for the game, too.

The plot excuses I've seen for excluding Alistair and Morrigan from M/M and F/F do not hold water with me. Alistair and his male Warden lover can nominate Anora or Alistair's relatives from his childhood home as his heirs. PIty the kingdom that must have arl and arlessa of Red Cliff(?) as their rulers...

Morrigan can ask her female Warden either to convince Alistair or Lothair(?) to...lie with Morrigan...or to deposit his semen in a bowl. And it can be done with all the heartache and drama used with any male Warden, only minus one option due to biology.

That didn't take long for me to think up. There's always been the option to not give Morrigan what she wants anyway.

Yeah but that sort of leads to death.

Though I feel your pain about Ali/Morri not being romanceable while two characters who have no real importance to the plot were s/s options. 

And really I though the plot excuses were pretty weak too but Morrigan is pretty easily manipulated by Flemeth.


about Leliana: she has a bug where you will constantly end up romancing her as a female. It's really annoying because then you're forced to break it off.

Yes, it would lead to death. But a female Warden's choices with Morrigan would be exactly like the ones she has already, only with the added heartache beginning just from hearing that bittersweet offer of life from the woman she loves. Sex, cup, or death. None of them easy, all of it ending with Morrigan still leaving her beloved behind.

Thank the gods for TallBearNC's hack allowing PC gamers to have M/M with Alistair and F/F with Morrigan. Too bad it's a longer process with ME1 and ME2. Either way, we shouldn't have to resort to hacking.

Ah, I see about Leiliana.

Modifié par Eromenos, 18 décembre 2010 - 02:28 .

[Siansonea]

What does all this Dragon Age stuff have to do with Mass Effect?

[MisterDyslexo]

Siansonea II wrote...

What does all this Dragon Age stuff have to do with Mass Effect?

Dragon Age actually takes place in the same universe as Mass Effect, just in the past. Just watch, the archdemon will save us from the reapers

[Ryzaki]

Eromenos wrote...
Yes, it would lead to death. But a female Warden's choices with Morrigan would be exactly like the ones she has already, only with the added heartache beginning just from hearing that bittersweet offer of life from the woman she loves. Sex, cup, or death. None of them easy, all of it ending with Morrigan still leaving her beloved behind.

Thank the gods for TallBearNC's hack allowing PC gamers to have M/M with Alistair and F/F with Morrigan. Too bad it's a longer process with ME1 and ME2. Either way, we shouldn't have to resort to hacking.

Ah, I see about Leiliana.

I know. Honestly I would've preferred Morri/Ali be the Bi options (plus imagine the jealousy banter between the two of them! It would've been hysterical!).

True that. Resorting to hacking is uncool.

Edit: BW. If BB isn't a m/m romance I will cry. I will cry big tears and blubber for pages on end. I will wangst for months and you guys will never here the end of it. My tears will be bitter nasty tears as not to feed your thirst!

And if BB is a m/m romance my tears will taste like strawberries.

Go on BW. Pull out all the stops. You know you want to.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 décembre 2010 - 02:54 .

[JaylaClark]

Eromenos wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@Eromenos: Don't you think that's a bit harsh? I mean granted Leliana couldn't be refused most of the damn time but Zevran was there if nothing else.

Even if I hated the slimey little cretin.

Sorry, I really don't know what you're getting at about Leiliana.

Gaider has no defense. I hear he was the principle writer for Zevran. Lead writer for the game, too.

The plot excuses I've seen for excluding Alistair and Morrigan from M/M and F/F do not hold water with me. Alistair and his male Warden lover can nominate Anora or Alistair's relatives from his childhood home as his heirs. PIty the kingdom that must have arl and arlessa of Red Cliff(?) as their rulers...

Morrigan can ask her female Warden either to convince Alistair or Lothair(?) to...lie with Morrigan...or to deposit his semen in a bowl. And it can be done with all the heartache and drama used with any male Warden, only minus one option due to biology.

That didn't take long for me to think up. There's always been the option to not give Morrigan what she wants anyway.

Odd that I would drop in for this specifically, but the italics added by me highlight a sentence I find interesting -- that there needed to be plot excuses to exclude these two from same-sex relationships.

Why can't it be 'they're hetero'?    Seriously though, not to dig into the opinions and facts behind sexual identity, but people that are just straight happen in real life, and I found it entirely realistic that Morrigan just didn't happen to be an option for Alyna Cousland.  Then again I think Leliana would have won anyway:wub:...

[Eromenos]

JaylaClark wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@Eromenos: Don't you think that's a bit harsh? I mean granted Leliana couldn't be refused most of the damn time but Zevran was there if nothing else.

Even if I hated the slimey little cretin.

Sorry, I really don't know what you're getting at about Leiliana.

Gaider has no defense. I hear he was the principle writer for Zevran. Lead writer for the game, too.

The plot excuses I've seen for excluding Alistair and Morrigan from M/M and F/F do not hold water with me. Alistair and his male Warden lover can nominate Anora or Alistair's relatives from his childhood home as his heirs. PIty the kingdom that must have arl and arlessa of Red Cliff(?) as their rulers...

Morrigan can ask her female Warden either to convince Alistair or Lothair(?) to...lie with Morrigan...or to deposit his semen in a bowl. And it can be done with all the heartache and drama used with any male Warden, only minus one option due to biology.

That didn't take long for me to think up. There's always been the option to not give Morrigan what she wants anyway.

Odd that I would drop in for this specifically, but the italics added by me highlight a sentence I find interesting -- that there needed to be plot excuses to exclude these two from same-sex relationships.

Why can't it be 'they're hetero'?    Seriously though, not to dig into the opinions and facts behind sexual identity, but people that are just straight happen in real life, and I found it entirely realistic that Morrigan just didn't happen to be an option for Alyna Cousland.  Then again I think Leliana would have won anyway:wub:...

I was disagreeing with someone else's claim that DAO's plot and roles for Alistair and Morrigan could be reasons to excuse them from any M/M or F/F.

Sure, people can be exclusively straight. BioWare clings to that stance, but I saw no good reasons to keep the two dominant LIs exclusively for M/F while giving the spares the dubious honor of being accessible for M/F, F/F, and M/M.

People aren't allowed to be exclusively gay in ME or DA, not unless they're saddled by tragedy and or crime in their lives. In the case of John Shepard, completely lonely.

Now that I think about it Leiliana's ex-gf was all-gay and befitting the examples I just mentioned. If anyone can find exceptions to the criteria BioWare uses when portraying established same-sex pairings we run into, please let me know. As in, any whose relationships look happy and are allowed to last.

Anyone?

Modifié par Eromenos, 18 décembre 2010 - 05:16 .

[Ryzaki]

Herren and Wade.



I didn't play Awakening so they were pretty much gay in love and (fairly) normal.

[Eromenos]

Ryzaki wrote...

Herren and Wade.

I didn't play Awakening so they were pretty much gay in love and (fairly) normal.

I think I read in this here thread that one of them turned out to be a Desire Demon. But I haven't played it either.

It's Herren. http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Herren

Good try, would've been nice. Any others?

Modifié par Eromenos, 18 décembre 2010 - 05:24 .

[Ryzaki]

Eromenos wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Herren and Wade.

I didn't play Awakening so they were pretty much gay in love and (fairly) normal.

I think I read in this here thread that one of them turned out to be a Desire Demon. But I haven't played it either.

It's Herren. http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Herren

Good try, would've been nice. Any others?

Wait what? 

Why would Herren be a desire demon?

/sighs

And this is why you don'tplace stupid smash them alls as DLC.

Um...I guess the PC/Zev but you don't count the PCs relationships do you?

Gah. I can't think of one. There was the guy you flirted with at the beginning of the HN origin but he was bi and he ends up dead in the assualt on the castle...

[Eromenos]

Ryzaki wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Herren and Wade.

I didn't play Awakening so they were pretty much gay in love and (fairly) normal.

I think I read in this here thread that one of them turned out to be a Desire Demon. But I haven't played it either.

It's Herren. http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Herren

Good try, would've been nice. Any others?

Wait what? 

Why would Herren be a desire demon?

/sighs

And this is why you don'tplace stupid smash them alls as DLC.

Um...I guess the PC/Zev but you don't count the PCs relationships do you?

Gah. I can't think of one. There was the guy you flirted with at the beginning of the HN origin but he was bi and he ends up dead in the assualt on the castle...

I liked him too.

I'm looking for any positive same-sex relationships existing between NPCs we encounter. Trust me, I'm always probing for them but I can't find even one that fits this criteria among BioWare's games.

Modifié par Eromenos, 18 décembre 2010 - 06:05 .

[Alphyn]

Even though I most likely wouldn't participate in a same-sex relationship in the game, (dispite having some IRL) I don't see why it shouldn't be in the game anyway. Besides, I might change my mind and decide that I need more Garrus hugs in my life.

At the end of the day, no one is forcing anyone to have a same-sex relationship. If you don't want to have one, then don't engage in one. It's not your judgment to say that same-sex relationships are wrong, because it's none of your business anyway. I'll live my life how I please, not how you think I should.

If being gay/bi is unnatural, then I am a natural in being unnatural.

Modifié par Alphyn, 18 décembre 2010 - 06:31 .

[shumworld]

Ryzaki wrote...

We're awfully scathing to BW at times aren't we?
You guys at BW know it's only because we  <3you guys and your games. If we didn't care we wouldn't get this worked up about it.

So :wub:hugs and kisses to everyone at BW and I hope you guys do choose to include M/M and F/F in ME3.

Since apparently Kelly doesn't exist and Liara isn't female.


I'm mean because I care.

Agreed.

In anycase, when BW makes their next big hit that has us play a protaganist that is customizable. Maybe they can give us a sexual prefference option.

Modifié par shumworld, 18 décembre 2010 - 06:37 .

[JaylaClark]

Eromenos wrote...

I'm looking for any positive same-sex relationships existing between NPCs we encounter. Trust me, I'm always probing for them but I can't find even one that fits this criteria among BioWare's games.

It's an accomplishment to find anyone in any game, though, isn't it?  Which explains my joy at hearing Veronica Santangelo in Fallout New Vegas talk about a relationship that didn't work out, and I noticed you can't approve or disapprove, even with the CCF perk... I get the feeling Obsidian was making a bit of a statement there, again like DS9's 'Rejoined', saying 'this is not an issue overall in this world.  Deal with it".  Well except for the Brotherhood's stance, which is ... gasp ... justified, or at least given a logical justification that I didn't exactly agree with.

To return to topic... I really am wracking my brain trying to find a positive same-sex relationship in all of gaming, and so far I've come up dry... aside from, potentially, Fable 2 (where the good outcome of a quest is to set a man up with another man, just like he wants to be).  I'm sure the problem is just that to the mostly straight male and straight female writers of these games, it doesn't occur to them that they're opening themselves up to situations like Nef saying 'what's wrong with me?' just having such unfortunate implications.  (Before anyone asks how that could possibly not have said unfortunate implications... speaking for myself I kind of did ask myself that question early in college.  Lucky me I had a nice contingent of friends, relatives, and random passers-by to answer 'nothing at all'.  This could well have been what they were going for, but in the overall context, I think they missed.)

[Wittand25]

Eromenos wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Herren and Wade.

I didn't play Awakening so they were pretty much gay in love and (fairly) normal.

I think I read in this here thread that one of them turned out to be a Desire Demon. But I haven't played it either.

It's Herren. http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Herren

Good try, would've been nice. Any others?

That is non canon DLC. In that version somehow Howe also survived until the Archdeamon attacked Denerim and several other things happened that are not possible to happen in game. Not to mention that the teleportation spell the deamon then used is against the rules of the setting, which do not allow teleportation.
So frankly I would dismiss that as a joke similar to the fact that Superman is in Thedas if you have Warden´s Keep installed.
In DA:A Wade and Herren´s relationship is one of the two healthy and happy ones in the whole game. Every other (straight) relationship ends with murder/suicide or adultery.

And even if Zevran/Leliana are less important to the main plot than Alistair/Morrigan think about the situation if the tables were turned and A/M were bi and Z/L straight. Straight Wardens then could get their happy ending with their LIs but, lesbians would be ditched ones their lover get´s what she want´s and gays could choose to either convince their lover to hand his heritage to the daughter of the man who murdered his whole family or be dumbed for duty. Somehow I believe that the same people complaining about it now would also complain about that scenario.

But back to this topic of ME3: Big Ben would be a great option provided we meet him early enough ( after all Legion was in the teaser for ME2), but Hendel MItra from the second book would also be great.  But I am not picky so any human male open for a full romance and not a Kelly like fling would be welcome. And of course the same is true for f/f romance.

Modifié par Wittand25, 18 décembre 2010 - 07:10 .

[DrBobcat]

I will admit that I've never analyzed Morinth and Nef's relationship as thoroughly as some of the others here (namely Jlb and Eromenos). Seeing as it was one of the very few depictions of same-sex romance in the game, it definitely caught my eye. I remember leaning back in my chair, pointing at the screen in surprise, and saying, "Huh. I wasn't expecting that." In fact, as the story progressed, I could not shake away the grin on my face. I kept thinking, "That's really cool. They finally 'went there.'" As pathetic as it might sound now, it actually restored some of my faith in Bioware. It was nowhere near the earthquake I had hoped for, but it was at least a step forward (or so I thought).

The frustration came much later, after I had already completed the game twice. In the back of my mind, the question kept arising: why is there no same-sex romance option for Shepard? Mild irritation gave way to outright disgust when BW finally commented on the matter. "What in the hell do you mean Asari aren't female?" I remember asking. "Did sex with Kelly occur in some sort of alternate universe or something?" I knew that they were just trying to cover their asses and this only made me more upset. The same company that had made a name for itself as a leader in interactive storytelling was suddenly trying to pull a fast one on us? Nuh-uh. Unacceptable.

I wouldn't be so disappointed if they would at least let us know that they're listening. They must be aware of how important this issue is to us. It's been discussed at length, in numerous threads, over the course of many months. We haven't been making any demands. No one has organized a boycott or smear campaign. We've tried to remain civil and productive every step of the way. I just want to hear something from them...

- - - - - -

As far as candidates go, there's a lot to choose from. Big Ben is a start (assuming he is an actual character in the game). Personally, I'd love to see an alien SS option. I'm a sap for symbolism and I think there'd be plenty of it in that kind of relationship (again, that's just my opinion). The main problem I've been having, however, is thinking of a character that could realistically fit the bill. For all we know, anyone currently serving on the Normandy (human or otherwise) could be bisexual. Hell, maybe one or two of them genuinely prefers someone of the same sex. Maybe Garrus is even more open-minded than we first thought? Maybe Miranda left Jacob for an entirely different reason?

It's unfortunate that we can't just ask them . That'd make things so much easier...

Modifié par DrBobcat, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:20 .

[ElitePinecone]

DrBobcat wrote...

As far as candidates go, there's a lot to choose from. Big Ben is a start (assuming he is an actual character in the game). Personally, I'd love to see an alien SS option. I'm a sap for symbolism and I think there'd be plenty of it in that kind of relationship (again, that's just my opinion). The main problem I've been having, however, is thinking of a character that could realistically fit the bill. For all we know, anyone currently serving on the Normandy (human or otherwise) could be bisexual. Hell, maybe one or two of them genuinely prefers someone of the same sex. Maybe Garrus is even more open-minded than we first thought? Maybe Miranda left Jacob for an entirely different reason?

It's unfortunate that we can't just ask them . That'd make things so much easier...

It's hard to guess what sorts of squadmates/romance interests/opportunities will be available in ME3, but at the very least I'd expect some new (potential) squadmembers to deal with the issues caused by the bewildering amount of combinations of possible surviving ME/ME2 characters. It's hard to see existing ME2 squadmates (especially) playing a huge role, if only because they could be absent in many players' save-game imports into the third game. 

This leaves the slate fairly clean in terms of possible characters - although it would be awesome to see some familiar faces (ones who are 'certainly' still alive) in the ME3 squad. I'm still holding out hope for Kaidan! 

I agree that in terms of symbolism an alien romance would be interesting, although arguably a romance with an alien of any 'gender' (or no gender) is equally symbolic (or it would be, if the aliens in Mass Effect didn't conform so bizarrely to human gender roles) - but that's getting into another topic entirely.

[Eromenos]

JaylaClark wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

I'm looking for any positive same-sex relationships existing between NPCs we encounter. Trust me, I'm always probing for them but I can't find even one that fits this criteria among BioWare's games.

It's an accomplishment to find anyone in any game, though, isn't it?  Which explains my joy at hearing Veronica Santangelo in Fallout New Vegas talk about a relationship that didn't work out, and I noticed you can't approve or disapprove, even with the CCF perk... I get the feeling Obsidian was making a bit of a statement there, again like DS9's 'Rejoined', saying 'this is not an issue overall in this world.  Deal with it".  Well except for the Brotherhood's stance, which is ... gasp ... justified, or at least given a logical justification that I didn't exactly agree with.

To return to topic... I really am wracking my brain trying to find a positive same-sex relationship in all of gaming, and so far I've come up dry... aside from, potentially, Fable 2 (where the good outcome of a quest is to set a man up with another man, just like he wants to be).  I'm sure the problem is just that to the mostly straight male and straight female writers of these games, it doesn't occur to them that they're opening themselves up to situations like Nef saying 'what's wrong with me?' just having such unfortunate implications.  (Before anyone asks how that could possibly not have said unfortunate implications... speaking for myself I kind of did ask myself that question early in college.  Lucky me I had a nice contingent of friends, relatives, and random passers-by to answer 'nothing at all'.  This could well have been what they were going for, but in the overall context, I think they missed.)

GTA, Fable, and The Sims are the only franchises I can think of right now which have been inclusive and respectful.

BioWare pretends that its games are too. I wager these writers know what they're doing with this situation. The fact that the employees choose to keep mum about this to the public does not mean that they don't read hot-topics like this one, something that has grown since KOTOR. They know. They just don't care.

Myzuka and Hudson weren't caught flat-footed by interviews which asked them about the exclusion of human M/M and F/F. Their separate responses were identical in that they carefully tailored not to address and not to name the queer community head-on, leaving us the unpleasant and unsurprising task of decoding their messages that say, "a human gay/bi military commander can't be the savior of this galaxy." So following, their marching orders to the staff aren't going to allow room for queer-friendly portraits in their game-world's general populations.

None.

Marjolaine/Leiliana = Villain/Victim

Erinya + Wife + Daughters = Victims

Benezia/Wife = mate was absent for Liara, undisclosed pain for Benezia

Matriarch Bartender/Wife = relationship failed

Morinth/Nef = Villain/Victim

Empress Sun Lai(?)/Female Muse = Early death on the part of the empress(codex in JE...yes, I dug into the obscure for anything, and still got nothing)

Juhani/Belaya = Victims

Herren/Wade = Villain/Victim (non-canon and jokes on top of it, judging by the news provided in the post which followed yours)

Are any of those very few meant to be flattering? Or are they just offensively toying?

Modifié par Eromenos, 18 décembre 2010 - 01:20 .