9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Marta Rio]

So reading some of the comments that the Devs have made on the subject, I'm not holding out hope that there will be a "real" same-sex romance option in ME3 (since according to the official story Liara and Kelly aren't "real" ones, apparently). If that's the case, I hope that we'll at least get some acknowledgement that gay people exist in the ME universe, and are normal people with the same foibles as everyone else (maybe they're headed in this direction with Gavorn?)



One thing that could be interesting is that they could reveal that a character who's sexuality was never discussed previously, is in fact, gay. (Zaeed comes to mind as a candidate) Although this would probably cause way too much of an uproar...

[Eromenos]

Wittand25 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Herren and Wade.

I didn't play Awakening so they were pretty much gay in love and (fairly) normal.

I think I read in this here thread that one of them turned out to be a Desire Demon. But I haven't played it either.

It's Herren. http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Herren

Good try, would've been nice. Any others?

That is non canon DLC. In that version somehow Howe also survived until the Archdeamon attacked Denerim and several other things happened that are not possible to happen in game. Not to mention that the teleportation spell the deamon then used is against the rules of the setting, which do not allow teleportation.
So frankly I would dismiss that as a joke similar to the fact that Superman is in Thedas if you have Warden´s Keep installed.
In DA:A Wade and Herren´s relationship is one of the two healthy and happy ones in the whole game. Every other (straight) relationship ends with murder/suicide or adultery.

And even if Zevran/Leliana are less important to the main plot than Alistair/Morrigan think about the situation if the tables were turned and A/M were bi and Z/L straight. Straight Wardens then could get their happy ending with their LIs but, lesbians would be ditched ones their lover get´s what she want´s and gays could choose to either convince their lover to hand his heritage to the daughter of the man who murdered his whole family or be dumbed for duty. Somehow I believe that the same people complaining about it now would also complain about that scenario.

But back to this topic of ME3: Big Ben would be a great option provided we meet him early enough ( after all Legion was in the teaser for ME2), but Hendel MItra from the second book would also be great.  But I am not picky so any human male open for a full romance and not a Kelly like fling would be welcome. And of course the same is true for f/f romance.

That is one reason why it is not permissible for the situation simply to be reversed. Alistair, Morrigan, Leiliana, and Zevran all should've been good to go for M/M, F/F, and M/F.

As for the issue about bloodlines and royalty. F them. Anyone who hardens Alistair has also freed him from being Eamon's creature. No one whined on the issue of pedigree by bloodlines so much as Eamon did. He was savoring his own proximity to the throne. (That being said, perhaps Eamon's household would be a bad choice to include in any line of succession.) There's no need to be enslaved to that model. Just because people are wary of "violating" some harmful tradition does not mean that it can't be toppled. Does Alistair even want kids?

Sounds to me like BioWare couldn't let that image of Herren and Wade stand, so they had to discredit them with the reveal about Herren.

Modifié par Eromenos, 18 décembre 2010 - 01:47 .

[Pacifien]

Take Dragon Age discussion to the Dragon Age forums.

[Alphyn]

Why was Liara even romance-able for a femShep to begin with?

The Codex names the asari as an "all female race", yet Liara herself says that she's "not exactly a woman."



I'm obligated to believe that the asari are, in fact, an all female race, like the Codex says. They're not exactly androgynous, are they? They clearly have the hour-glass figure of a female.

The only two races that also lean towards that the asari are all female, are the quarians and (obviously) humans (did I miss any?); they both retain an hour-glass shape, present in female forms again.



So... is this an exploit? If lesbian relationships are so presently accepted and formed with no qualms about it whatsoever, why aren't gay male relationships the same? They aren't even talked about (unless you mod ME1, I think).



I dunno, guys, am I missing something? I'm pretty tired, so... pardon my dust.

[Dominus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, from what I remember from ME1, they were classified as mono-gendered, they just happen to resemble women. This topic does feel a little like beating a dead husk...

[Alphyn]

DominusVita wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong, from what I remember from ME1, they were classified as mono-gendered, they just happen to resemble women. This topic does feel a little like beating a dead husk...

I guess. Still seems a bit of a cop-out to me. <_<

[Ryzaki]

No the codex clearly tells you they're an all female race.

[Eromenos]

Ryzaki wrote...

No the codex clearly tells you they're an all female race.

Plus, more than anything, they refer to themselves as female. So do all other races who encounter them.

Cantonese does not distinguish "her/him" or "he/she", with the closest English equivalent  probably being "it." BioWare could've gone for "it" to refer to asari but even with hourglass figures and female voice-actors, BioWare took great pains not to offend fanboys who don't want to "get with" an "it." They gots to be gurlz all the way, regardless of token semantics about mono-gender which I believe is not even spoken in ME2.

The downside of BioWare's willfulness is its insult towards the queer community and women in particular.

Modifié par Eromenos, 18 décembre 2010 - 07:50 .

[superfatman]

Jacob doesn't want the ManShep priiize.

[Pacifien]

superfatman wrote...
Jacob doesn't want the ManShep priiize.

FemShep doesn't want the Jacob priiize.

[MisterDyslexo]

Let me explain that this whole "mono-gendered" and "androgynous" is bs thing the best I can...



Case closed.

[Dominus]

Now that is a wallpaper I need....badly.

[JaylaClark]

Well yes.  From a meta standpoint, the asari are clearly all-female, as MisterDyslexo illustrates so clearly.

From an in-universe standpoint, I'd still classify them as female, or female-plus if you will, not just for their form but for their function (being a species that one of them always acts as the birth mother no matter who the second parent is).  Plus, as I was saying even before I first ran into jlb the first time, to a human eye they're female, thus given the physical laws of attraction as I know them (I may be wrong, but this is how my experience has gone) one has to be physically attracted to the female form to find the asari attractive in that way.

So like I said two days ago, I think it was, femShep is storyline-mechanically-bisexual.  For the Mass Effect series, Liara and Kelly count as actual lesbian romances no matter what Sylar Casey Hudson tries to say (and I'm mystified as to how Kelly doesn't count... gameplay-wise she doesn't fit the 'romance scene' criteria, but she's a woman, femShep is a woman, there's really nothing else to say.)

[jlb524]

Alphyn wrote...

Why was Liara even romance-able for a femShep to begin with?

What do you even mean by this?

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Going with this topic, I am wondering, are there any people that wanted Ashley for the FemShep? Me I'm a dude who likes his macho dudes and has an unhealthy obsession with Commander Shepard himself so, I always play as Shepard - The Iconic man. Always. I kind of liked Ashley, but when it came to it I liked Kaidan more. Romancable or not.

[Xilizhra]

jlb524 wrote...

Alphyn wrote...

Why was Liara even romance-able for a femShep to begin with?

What do you even mean by this?

Why was this allowed when male homosexual relationships weren't.

[Siansonea]

Why is anyone asking "why"? Does anyone really think that there's a legitimate answer to be had? Unless a developer comments on what transpired in the writers' room, anything said will be our own speculation, which is pretty pointless, and is always going to be subjective. So, how about we drop the "Why?" questions, drop the Dragon Age discussions, and drop the umpteenth discussion of whether asari or female or not (THEY ARE. PERIOD.).

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Siansonea II wrote...

Why is anyone asking "why"? Does anyone really think that there's a legitimate answer to be had? Unless a developer comments on what transpired in the writers' room, anything said will be our own speculation, which is pretty pointless, and is always going to be subjective. So, how about we drop the "Why?" questions, drop the Dragon Age discussions, and drop the umpteenth discussion of whether asari or female or not (THEY ARE. PERIOD.).

*Bows humbly* Well put.

To the topic at hand of romances within the MASS EFFECT universe
(keep Dragon Age to a minimum unless you want thread locked earlier than normal, as is the fate of all threads of this caliber.)

To clarify what I was asking above. There seem to be a lot of people out of the wood works so to speak about having Kaidan for Male Shepard. I am just curious if there are any people participating in this thread who had the opposite of wants - IE Ashley for Female Shepard.

Xilizhra wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Alphyn wrote...

Why was Liara even romance-able for a femShep to begin with?

What do you even mean by this?

Why was this allowed when male homosexual relationships weren't.

To provide you a half answer, as any answer to your question will be considering how often they have been talked to death on these threads I will provide you with what seems to be the general consensus (at least upon what i've seen in these forums) is this:

Two women in a romance is not as looked down up on society as two men. The demographic is ostensibly, straight males primarily, which tend to not necessarily turn an eye down to two hot women with one another. Two men on the other hand with this being a male dominated society, it is seen as well... wrong. Why? We can ask this to ourselves in circles. The exact REASON why S/S romance was allowed for a Female Shepard and not a Male Shepard will remain an unanswered question for quite awhile I presume, if not always. Stonewalled, sidesteped, cop-out whatever you choose to call it. We are never given a honest credible answer.

Until such a time all we can do is provide Bioware with our opinions in a kindly manner and let them know what we want and that while we may love their games, we still feel let down by them. I do at the very least.

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 19 décembre 2010 - 01:17 .

[jlb524]

Xilizhra wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Alphyn wrote...

Why was Liara even romance-able for a femShep to begin with?

What do you even mean by this?

Why was this allowed when male homosexual relationships weren't.

Well, yeah, that's a load of crap.

[jlb524]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

To clarify what I was asking above. There seem to be a lot of people out of the wood works so to speak about having Kaidan for Male Shepard. I am just curious if there are any people participating in this thread who had the opposite of wants - IE Ashley for Female Shepard.

There are, just like there are others that want Jack/Miranda/Tali for FemShep.  Heck, if Liara wasn't available for FemShep, I would desperately want her to be.

[MisterDyslexo]

I wanted FemShep-Ashley. I wondered about it at first, but never really personally wanted it until my game glitched and I ended up romancing her as Female Shepard. Found it better than MaleShep-Ashley, but then again it could be the fact it wasn't Mark Meer's (sometimes) atrocious voice-acting.

Quite frankly the only plausible reason for her not being a F/F romance is "She's just straight, we wrote her that way", but since there was so much recorded just for her romance (like Kaidan's) it suggests that is bull and they wanted to cut it for another reason <_<

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 19 décembre 2010 - 01:26 .

[jlb524]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

I wanted FemShep-Ashley. I wondered about it at first, but never really personally wanted it until my game glitched and I ended up romancing her as Female Shepard. Found it better than MaleShep-Ashley, but then again it could be the fact it wasn't Mark Meer's (sometimes) atrocious voice-acting.

That's a nice glitch

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Quite frankly the only plausible reason for her not being a F/F romance is "She's just straight, we wrote her that way", but since there was so much recorded just for her romance (like Kaidan's) it suggests that is bull and they wanted to cut it for another reason <_<

I think regardless, some people will always want a certain LI available for s/s romance.  Which kind of shows that these characters are never written as so necessarily 'straight' that people couldn't fathom a possible s/s romance with them just not working.

Same with MaleShep, there are those that want Kaidan while others want Garrus/Jacob/Thane.

[MisterDyslexo]

jlb524 wrote...

I think regardless, some people will always want a certain LI available for s/s romance.  Which kind of shows that these characters are never written as so necessarily 'straight' that people couldn't fathom a possible s/s romance with them just not working.

I have to agree with this. I mean we can look at past characters and pin why some are specifically straight. The dead wife trope is an example, as its pre-established. You could make arguments for plot mattering for some being exclusively straight. However, there has been no real plot twist by romancing any of the characters in Mass Effect. If Ashley ended up pregnant, then yes it would've had to have been MaleShep exclusively, but nothing at all like that has happened. I don't see it happening in the future. You could say that certain characters subconsciously would react differently to same-sex romance (Garrus and Thane in particular), but thats just character development, rather than plot change.

And, of course, there's the whole "I can bang a space chicken but not another dude?" thing, as well as "Wait wait wait, having the same gender is actually a bigger issue than being of a completely different species? Really??" arguments.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 19 décembre 2010 - 01:49 .

[jlb524]

The pregnancy thing isn't even a good argument against it either, as the FemShep vs. MaleShep versions of the romance can be different...one ends in pregnancy while the other does not. Pregnancy is rarely a plot point.

Having a dead wife doesn't preclude one can be attracted to the same sex either.

Modifié par jlb524, 19 décembre 2010 - 01:52 .

[LoveAsThouWilt]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I think regardless, some people will always want a certain LI available for s/s romance.  Which kind of shows that these characters are never written as so necessarily 'straight' that people couldn't fathom a possible s/s romance with them just not working.

I have to agree with this. I mean we can look at past characters and pin why some are specifically straight. The dead wife trope is an example, as its pre-established. You could make arguments for plot mattering for some being exclusively straight. However, there has been no real plot twist by romancing any of the characters in Mass Effect. If Ashley ended up pregnant, then yes it would've had to have been MaleShep exclusively, but nothing at all like that has happened. I don't see it happening in the future. You could say that certain characters subconsciously would react differently to same-sex romance (Garrus and Thane in particular), but thats just character development, rather than plot change.

And, of course, there's the whole "I can bang a space chicken but not another dude?" thing, as well as "Wait wait wait, having the same gender is actually a bigger issue than being of a completely different species? Really??" arguments.

Nice to see someone point out that Species thing.

If they seriously want us to believe homosexuality doesn't exist in this Universe (as it seems in the games NOT TO at least not in any real positive light). Then if SPECIES relationships have not been discussed in detailed as abhorent via characters in Mass Effect they flat out have no excuse for same gender. None. Realistically - suspension of disbelief has just imploded upon this.

I mean we have an asari like on Illium whom has pureblood daughters and is actually MOCKED AT culturally for having had pure blooded children. The exact opposite we'd expect to see when it comes to alien reactions are from the asari. Instead of "no romance with different species" its have "no romance within species". The exact other end of the coin. Its like.... wait. Species is no issues? Gender shouldn't be either then. SOMEONE WROTE KELLY INTO THE GAME TO SAY AS MUCH HERSELF. Why don't you listent o your own characters Bioware? GAH! Very hypocritical.

jlb524 wrote...

The pregnancy thing isn't even a good
argument against it either, as the FemShep vs. MaleShep versions of the
romance can be different...one ends in pregnancy while the other does
not. Pregnancy is rarely a plot point.

Having a dead wife doesn't preclude one can be attracted to the same sex either.

Agreed on both accounts. I mean seriously. The defence that Garrus, Kaidan, Thane, etc, are too "manly' to be homosexual romance potentials is offensive because, dudes liking dudes does not automatically mean one must be a prancing flamboyant annoyance..... Which is what the gaming industry seems to assume.

And the point I always fall back on KAIDAN was written for both. Without a credible reason its inexcusable. Why do we get sidestepped? Because they can't come out and say that their publisher/someone high in industry said "SICK GROSS GET THAT OUT NOW!" or "GET RID OF IT OR WE"LL NEVER SELL A COPY".......

Not to mention as we've seen in some films and movies even, there are instances of people whom aren't necessarily attracted to the same gender, but are attracted to one specific PERSON of the same gender because of who they are. Where its not "all men" or "all women" just "this MAN" or "this WOMAN"

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 19 décembre 2010 - 02:09 .