9243 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterDyslexo]

I understand the "well just because of 'x' doesn't mean they can't be gay/bi" argument has validity, I think it doesn't necessarily work if something about the character is already established. If Bioware said "Carth is straight" with no reason, it could be intentionally exclusionary. If its "Carth is straight. He has a dead wife and a son." that would establish something about his character, which IMO is fine. Juhani was in a prior relationship with another woman, so to me using that logic, it makes sense for her to be an exclusively f/f romance. Kaidan had that girl Rana, and while that was fairly obscure, and it
seems he was originally bisexual, it does establish that he has an
attraction to women, further reinforced by his comments about Liara. Jacob had a relationship with Miranda, so its already established he's attracted to women. He obviously isn't gay then, and really not everyone is bisexual, so they have something to stand on in defense (IMO).
Now there's a double-standard for this though. We KNOW that Jack was in a relationship with another woman (albeit a polyamorous one), and with men, so to me there's absolutely no reason for her not to be bi. It just breaks character. Some characters are never actually established. Among those are Ashley, Garrus, and Tali. Two of those are even another species (see above post)

Then you could say something about behavior of a character. Miranda might be straight, but working on Shepard caused part of her attraction MaleShep. Why not FemShep? Then there's Thane, which you can argue that his solipsism would get in the way of a relationship with FemShep, but not MaleShep (different gender).

This is just my opinion, and some of my take. Pick it apart as you please.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 19 décembre 2010 - 02:16 .

[jlb524]

Even establishing a past hetero relationship doesn't make a character 'straight'. They could be bisexual.

But with Jack, yeah, she was written as having past sexual relationships with women. Plus, she give you that gender neutral line when you ask about it, 'If you are talking about a boyfriend or a girlfriend, then no.'

This would come from someone that has considered relationships with both men and women, and not from a strictly straight woman. In that case, she would say, 'If you are talking about a boyfriend, then no.'

I actually think that Jack was originally intended to be a bisexual option and it was cut last minute, but there are still some leftovers in her dialog remaining that hint at this.

Modifié par jlb524, 19 décembre 2010 - 02:18 .

[jlb524]

Hmmm, you have to admit it's a bit odd, Phantom, that ME has given the player more romance options than DA:O for both sexes, but ME has no m/m option while DA:O added at least one.

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Phantom Actuality wrote...

All of this discussion and speculation as to why the m/m content isn't there, is a total waste of time.   For one thing, regardless of what the reason is, some of us want the content there.  That's not going to change.  Secondly, even if we knew what the reason was, some of us still want the content there, and that's not going to change.  Knowing the reason does not change that.  And third, none of us have direct control of decision making at Bioware.

This general consensus that the reason that m/m content isn't in the game, is because it's a male dominated society, and that the demographic is primarily straight males, has more holes than a block of swiss cheese.  If that's the case, DA shouldn't have m/m content in it, but it does.   And before anyone steps in here and tells me that the two games are targetted to different audiences, you need to put up some numbers.  You need to put up a lot of numbers.  I don't believe the numbers are there to support it. 

You think gay males don't like to play games like ME?  You think gay males don't play shooters?  You think straight males don't like to play RPGs like Dragon Age?  Talk about stereotyping, and frankly, it's offensive.

Also, I've read comments stating that the reason that m/m content isn't in the game, is because Bioware is afraid of controversy from the media, because of the Fox News report about the romance scenes in ME.  You think a news reporter or religious fanatic gives a damn whether or not the title of the game is ME or DA, that he/she is allegedly wanting to drum up controversy over?  Bioware certainly wasn't afraid of the controversy whenever they released DA, was they?

I wasn't speaking as to the actual demographic but the "possible view" from Bioware what the demographic is. Where the money is at.

I am a gay male. I play mass effect, I play dragon age (offended to know end by Zevran mind you.... UGH)

The truth is there honestly is NO WAY to know exactly why content was cut. I just threw out what I have seen flying around other threads.

The biggest one i've seen ist that Shepard is an "iconic" character or some bull which doesn't fly.

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 19 décembre 2010 - 02:29 .

[MisterDyslexo]

jlb524 wrote...

Even establishing a past hetero relationship doesn't make a character 'straight'. They could be bisexual.

Like I tried to point out, it doesn't rule them out for being bisexual, but I think pointing it out is supposed to be significant in establishing that they are straight, gay, or bisexual. The technicality is still there, the logic is sound, but good writers usually don't write-in things that are insignificant.

There are two major ways to tell whether or not something had been written by Shakespeare. If:
1. Any prior fact was repeated or reiterated.
2. Something that was insignificant to the plot was written (except for the lines of the comic relief character)

If either of those two happened, it wasn't Shakespeare. Thats sorta how I'm seeing it with Bioware. I'll take Kaidan as an example.
1. We're told about Rana. The girl herself isn't important, but the fact he had an attraction a girl in general is the important fact.
2. They wouldn't have gone into the story about Rana without a reason. It develops him as a character, but the fact that a gender was cited makes it significant.

Again, thats just me.

Edit: Two things.

1. Being afraid of Fox News is like being afraid of the boogeyman.
2. I'm gay (bi actually) and that demographic stereotype does not apply well at all. Play american football, like to shoot and blow stuff up (IRL), and get into a fair amount of fights (only if I'm defending myself of course:innocent:). Trying to typecast somebody is almost as dumb as being afraid of Fox News.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 19 décembre 2010 - 02:41 .

[LoveAsThouWilt]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Even establishing a past hetero relationship doesn't make a character 'straight'. They could be bisexual.

Like I tried to point out, it doesn't rule them out for being bisexual, but I think pointing it out is supposed to be significant in establishing that they are straight, gay, or bisexual. The technicality is still there, the logic is sound, but good writers usually don't write-in things that are insignificant.

There are two major ways to tell whether or not something had been written by Shakespeare. If:
1. Any prior fact was repeated or reiterated.
2. Something that was insignificant to the plot was written (except for the lines of the comic relief character)

If either of those two happened, it wasn't Shakespeare. Thats sorta how I'm seeing it with Bioware. I'll take Kaidan as an example.
1. We're told about Rana. The girl herself isn't important, but the fact he had an attraction a girl in general is the important fact.
2. They wouldn't have gone into the story about Rana without a reason. It develops him as a character, but the fact that a gender was cited makes it significant.

Again, thats just me.

From what i've taken from that story was that he felt an emotional connection to someone in the same situation as he. My Shepard explored all dialogue with him on 4 different playthroughs and it never said that they were intimate or anything of the sort. Hell he was young when this happen. Question is also how young. When I was young I found girls cute, but women are boring to me now and men are.. well lets just leave you to fill in that with your imagination.

That was character building establishing his traumatic past and doesn't mean he is ostensibly straight or anything. And it still remains to me that he was still written originally for both genders to romance.

[kmcd5722]

I haven't posted in this thread until now because I was afraid of getting flamed. But here's my pitch: I have a gay roommate at school, and I assure you, I feel 100% sleeping in my loft, changing clothes, etc. We talk about girls, guys, etc, and I am not bothered by his "different choice" one bit (and personally because I believe its not about choice, but just about how you are made). I support this thread 100% although I doubt anything will ever come it.

[jlb524]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...


From what i've taken from that story was that he felt an emotional connection to someone in the same situation as he. My Shepard explored all dialogue with him on 4 different playthroughs and it never said that they were intimate or anything of the sort. Hell he was young when this happen. Question is also how young. When I was young I found girls cute, but women are boring to me now and men are.. well lets just leave you to fill in that with your imagination.

That was character building establishing his traumatic past and doesn't mean he is ostensibly straight or anything. And it still remains to me that he was still written originally for both genders to romance.

This.  My own youthful sexuality doesn't match my current either.  Though, I was always attracted to women, I hid this and tried to go the 'straight' route and went after guys.  My public sexuality was that of a straight woman until I became comfortable with my same-sex attraction and now I identify as a gay woman.

[ElitePinecone]

kmcd5722 wrote...

I haven't posted in this thread until now because I was afraid of getting flamed. But here's my pitch: I have a gay roommate at school, and I assure you, I feel 100% sleeping in my loft, changing clothes, etc. We talk about girls, guys, etc, and I am not bothered by his "different choice" one bit (and personally because I believe its not about choice, but just about how you are made). I support this thread 100% although I doubt anything will ever come it.

Thank you!

MisterDyslexo wrote...
 I'll take Kaidan as an example.
1. We're told about Rana. The girl herself isn't important, but the fact he had an attraction a girl in general is the important fact.
2. They wouldn't have gone into the story about Rana without a reason. It develops him as a character, but the fact that a gender was cited makes it significant.

If I remember correctly, in the version of the Rana dialogue in which MaleShep is romancing Kaidan (look it up on YouTube) he mentions Rana as a platonic close friend rather than a romantic interest. I don't remember the exact wording, but I got the impression that he saved Rana out of kindness or chivalry rather than any attraction (I could be completely wrong - if I get time later today I'll re-check the videos).

Regarding the species question earlier on this page, I remember reading this quote from Casey Hudson about the development of Mass Effect 2 that was, to put it bluntly, infuriating:

Casey Hudson wrote...
... And one of the big ones was Garrus, people just loved Garrus and there was a love of interest in having a romance with Garrus. So we thought, "Let's try this in Mass Effect 2[/i]." If people want to have a romance with this bird-like guy with an exoskeleton, then okay.

Yep. Bird-like guy with an exoskeleton is okay. 

[LoveAsThouWilt]

kmcd5722 wrote...

I haven't posted in this thread until now because I was afraid of getting flamed. But here's my pitch: I have a gay roommate at school, and I assure you, I feel 100% sleeping in my loft, changing clothes, etc. We talk about girls, guys, etc, and I am not bothered by his "different choice" one bit (and personally because I believe its not about choice, but just about how you are made). I support this thread 100% although I doubt anything will ever come it.

Thanks for the support at the very least. I have a straight male friend whom he and I have similar lines of talks which usually has plenty of gay jokes and innuendos which have us both roaring with laughter.

I also agree, I doubt. Highly that anything will come no matter how large the support is. Even if it is larger than the "up in arms" nay sayers. Which I'm not saying it is.

ElitePinecone wrote...

MisterDyslexo wrote...
 I'll take Kaidan as an example.
1.
We're told about Rana. The girl herself isn't important, but the fact
he had an attraction a girl in general is the important fact.
2. They
wouldn't have gone into the story about Rana without a reason. It
develops him as a character, but the fact that a gender was cited makes
it significant.

If I remember correctly, in the
version of the Rana dialogue in which MaleShep is romancing Kaidan (look
it up on YouTube) he mentions Rana as a platonic close friend rather
than a romantic interest. I don't remember the exact wording, but I got
the impression that he saved Rana out of kindness or chivalry rather
than any attraction (I could be completely wrong - if I get time later
today I'll re-check the videos).

Regarding the species question
earlier on this page, I remember reading this quote from Casey Hudson
about the development of Mass Effect 2 that was, to put it bluntly,
infuriating:

Casey Hudson wrote...
... And one of the
big ones was Garrus, people just loved Garrus and there was a love of
interest in having a romance with Garrus. So we thought, "Let's try this
in Mass Effect 2[/i]." If people want to have a romance with this
bird-like guy with an exoskeleton, then okay.

Yep. Bird-like guy with an exoskeleton is okay. 

I fairly certain it was pretty ambigous even in my 360 playthrough when talking with Kaidan.

And infuriating indeed....... I love BIoware, but I won't lie, I hate Casey. He's sidestepped the question HE did on another interview as well.

Anyone with me and creating out own Geth army? lol

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 19 décembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[MisterDyslexo]

jlb524 wrote...

This.  My own youthful sexuality doesn't match my current either.  Though, I was always attracted to women, I hid this and tried to go the 'straight' route and went after guys.

I understand your point, but then why would Kaidan even bother bringing this up if its what happened with him? He had a real attraction to Rhana, completely genuine, so regardless of any attraction to males, he is definitely interested in females. And I point back to my other post that if they wanted to make the point that he was bi, he would've had dialogue pointing out this part of his sexuality at some point. Of course his s/s dialogue was cut, but the remanants are all still there, so I think that dialogue would've been there as well. This is the main reason I doubt whether or not Kaidan was meant to be bisexual. Everything else points in favour that he was, but the lack of this line is a "fly in the lotion" of the whole idea.

Edit:

ElitePinecone wrote...

If I remember correctly, in the
version of the Rana dialogue in which MaleShep is romancing Kaidan (look
it up on YouTube) he mentions Rana as a platonic close friend rather
than a romantic interest. I don't remember the exact wording, but I got
the impression that he saved Rana out of kindness or chivalry rather
than any attraction (I could be completely wrong - if I get time later
today I'll re-check the videos).

If this is true, then it would change alot. It would change the Rhana thing to probably be more like a big-brother/little-sister complex, and change what I just put in the above. The fact that he doesn't mention any person he's had feeling for in the past opens things wide open as well.  This sorta points towards the fact they would've used this Rhana dialogue for both Male and Female Shepard, or that both lines were used and you somehow had a choice to make Kaidan straight or gay/bi, which sounds very strange, but I could see it being done in a fairly subtle choice of words.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 19 décembre 2010 - 03:56 .

[jlb524]

So what? He's attracted to women. This doesn't mean he's not attracted to men as well.

Look at Sky from Jade Empire. He brings up his past with a woman that he was attracted to enough to marry and have kids, but he was also interested in men.

Modifié par jlb524, 19 décembre 2010 - 03:46 .

[kill_switch_423]

Hm. While I've been a fan of Bioware for a while, I can't say I'm a fan of Casey either. He seems to not know very much about PR, though he loves to spin things a lot he's not very good at it. After seeing one interview about the issue, I was skeptical. I thought, "Hey, doesn't want to answer the question because he's afraid of offending EA, homosexuals, bigots, etc." But after the several I've now researched I think I may retract some of my statements the other night.



Still, I doubt Casey's poor representation =/= BW being anti-homosexual. If DA is any evidence (albeit a very poorly done example), there may be hope for m/m LIs in future BW games, if not ME3 in particular.



As about being attracted to ONE man but not being homosexual, I have very similair views to this theory. Love isn't about someone's gender, just someone. If I had fallen in love with a male, I'd be with him. However, I have never gotten to that point, so i have remained 'straight.' ~shrug~ Sorry for going off-topic there.

[MisterDyslexo]

jlb524 wrote...

So what? He's attracted to women. This doesn't mean he's not attracted to men as well.

The point I'm trying to make with my other two posts. The fact that there is an established relationship affects our perception. While yes, there is a possibility he could be bi, he was given specific dialogue to point us into believing that he was definitely interested in women. Heterosexuality in men is far more common than bisexuality, so I'm trying to say that we're being pushed into believing that he's straight rather than bisexual. While yes, yes are absolutely right, its off of a technicality, which while it can't be disproven, there is stronger evidence pointing elsewhere. The writers would've gone out of the way to make the point.
This standpoint on Kaidan (not the theory itself) could change if there actually is different dialogue about Rhana for the MaleShep-Kaidan romance, then there would be nothing against a bisexual Kaidan. I'm just saying that the way its written is to point us in the direction that he is not gay (because Rhana's a girl), not bisexual (because he doesn't mention men), but straight. Its just a matter of simple writing.

[LoveAsThouWilt]

kill_switch_423 wrote...

Hm. While I've been a fan of Bioware for a while, I can't say I'm a fan of Casey either. He seems to not know very much about PR, though he loves to spin things a lot he's not very good at it. After seeing one interview about the issue, I was skeptical. I thought, "Hey, doesn't want to answer the question because he's afraid of offending EA, homosexuals, bigots, etc." But after the several I've now researched I think I may retract some of my statements the other night.

Still, I doubt Casey's poor representation =/= BW being anti-homosexual. If DA is any evidence (albeit a very poorly done example), there may be hope for m/m LIs in future BW games, if not ME3 in particular.

As about being attracted to ONE man but not being homosexual, I have very similair views to this theory. Love isn't about someone's gender, just someone. If I had fallen in love with a male, I'd be with him. However, I have never gotten to that point, so i have remained 'straight.' ~shrug~ Sorry for going off-topic there.

I agree with you completely. I still love Bioware and I don't see them as Anti-Gay or anything. Its just really frustrating knowing that there was this awesome possibility for a game which the WANT us to be invested emotionally into our characters with (thats the big popularity of series the emotional impact makes it more real each Shepard is suppose to be OUR Commander Shepard. Is suppose to be US as him/her saving the galaxy) and yet the deny something that would have made it all the engaging to me.

[jlb524]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

So what? He's attracted to women. This doesn't mean he's not attracted to men as well.

The point I'm trying to make with my other two posts. The fact that there is an established relationship affects our perception. While yes, there is a possibility he could be bi, he was given specific dialogue to point us into believing that he was definitely interested in women. Heterosexuality in men is far more common than bisexuality, so I'm trying to say that we're being pushed into believing that he's straight rather than bisexual. While yes, yes are absolutely right, its off of a technicality, which while it can't be disproven, there is stronger evidence pointing elsewhere. The writers would've gone out of the way to make the point.
This standpoint on Kaidan (not the theory itself) could change if there actually is different dialogue about Rhana for the MaleShep-Kaidan romance, then there would be nothing against a bisexual Kaidan. I'm just saying that the way its written is to point us in the direction that he is not gay (because Rhana's a girl), not bisexual (because he doesn't mention men), but straight. Its just a matter of simple writing.

I get your point, but I don't think it matters.  I didn't in JE with Sky.

[ElitePinecone]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

If this is true, then it would change alot. It would change the Rhana thing to probably be more like a big-brother/little-sister complex, and change what I just put in the above. The fact that he doesn't mention any person he's had feeling for in the past opens things wide open as well.  This sorta points towards the fact they would've used this Rhana dialogue for both Male and Female Shepard, or that both lines were used and you somehow had a choice to make Kaidan straight or gay/bi, which sounds very strange, but I could see it being done in a fairly subtle choice of words.

The videos I mentoined are located here and here. In the first one, Kaidan doesn't mention Rana (I'm unsure if the conversation about what the kids did at Brain camp is under 'Investigate', or if it's just not present in the mShep/Kaidan romance).

In the second video, when Shepard asks what happened with Vernus, Kaidan replies "he hurt a girl" instead of "he hurt Rana". This is very notable, because he mentions Rana in conversations with both femShep (as a romance) and mShep (in the unmodded game where it's just a conversation). As far as I know, 'Rana' isn't mentioned at all in the Kaidan/mShep romance arc.

It definitely gives me the impression that his past relationship with Rana wasn't meant to feature in the same-sex romance option that was cut from the game - hence why she's just "a girl", and not mentioned by name.

Edit: It also makes sense that they'd try and keep the dialogue changes to a minimum; only one sentence is replaced ("He hurt a girl" instead of "He hurt Rana") but it achieves the effect of removing Kaidan's past straight relationships.

Also, Rana isn't mentioned in the post-Vernus dialogue. In the fem-Shep/Kaidan romance or MShep/Kaidan normal conversation, he mentions that Rana was scared of him and that they lost contact after a while. There's nothing like this in the mShep/Kaidan romance conversation. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 19 décembre 2010 - 04:27 .

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Here we go I had to dig around for this:

"in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open"

from: http://gaygamer.net/...cusses_gay.html

yeah... hence my fury at Bioware.

and the IGN article they got it from: http://xbox360.ign.c.../1066954p2.html

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 19 décembre 2010 - 04:38 .

[Eromenos]

Phantom Actuality wrote...

All of this discussion and speculation as to why the m/m content isn't there, is a total waste of time.   For one thing, regardless of what the reason is, some of us want the content there.  That's not going to change.  Secondly, even if we knew what the reason was, some of us still want the content there, and that's not going to change.  Knowing the reason does not change that.  And third, none of us have direct control of decision making at Bioware.

This general consensus that the reason that m/m content isn't in the game, is because it's a male dominated society, and that the demographic is primarily straight males, has more holes than a block of swiss cheese.  If that's the case, DA shouldn't have m/m content in it, but it does.   And before anyone steps in here and tells me that the two games are targetted to different audiences, you need to put up some numbers.  You need to put up a lot of numbers.  I don't believe the numbers are there to support it. 

DA's M/M was not flattering and it was not respectful.

1. It was relegated to the non-human, which kept the golden-boy quarterback human squadmate free of the icky M/M.

2. Zevran is the last to join, and the easiest to murder. Players can go through DAO and not realize he could've been part of the crew. Thus BioWare "shielded" people who are afraid of having teh ghey forced onto them.

3. Zevran's initial flirting with male Wardens comes with a disclaimer- "Are you offended because we're both males?" Yet another handshake with homophobia.

You think gay males don't like to play games like ME?  You think gay males don't play shooters?  You think straight males don't like to play RPGs like Dragon Age?  Talk about stereotyping, and frankly, it's offensive.

Also, I've read comments stating that the reason that m/m content isn't in the game, is because Bioware is afraid of controversy from the media, because of the Fox News report about the romance scenes in ME.  You think a news reporter or religious fanatic gives a damn whether or not the title of the game is ME or DA, that he/she is allegedly wanting to drum up controversy over?  Bioware certainly wasn't afraid of the controversy whenever they released DA, was they?

No kidding, of course they know that we're here. But any of their content which people believe is specifically addressed to us is in a fact a lie. If there were such content, we'd have all the same choices given to straight gamers. But for every one of BioWare's npcs or squadmates who are open to M/M or F/F with the player, each of them is also compelled to be open towards M/F. There've been no exceptions. Yet a majority of the abundant characters who take M/F are exclusively unavailable for M/M or F/F. Main course vs crumbs. Pointing to Zevran as an example of same-sex acceptance is like saying Oprah alone represents improved race depictions on TV. Such ideas are no more than wishful thinking at best, but more often just lies being cooked up.

Certainly that's the model for ME2. And ME1. And JE. And KOTOR. Whatever same-sex encounters or relationships exist in BioWare games are always saddled with accessibility for heterosexual encounters, or dogged by crime and tragedy. Never once has there been a BioWare example wherein the partners are allowed petty privilege of simply being together. BioWare reserves all of that for the hetero-pairings.

Modifié par Eromenos, 19 décembre 2010 - 04:50 .

[Pwner1323]

Everytime I see this thread popping up I ask myself why BW has remained so silent regarding this matter.



Very peculiar.......

[kill_switch_423]

Eromenos wrote...

Phantom Actuality wrote...

All of this discussion and speculation as to why the m/m content isn't there, is a total waste of time.   For one thing, regardless of what the reason is, some of us want the content there.  That's not going to change.  Secondly, even if we knew what the reason was, some of us still want the content there, and that's not going to change.  Knowing the reason does not change that.  And third, none of us have direct control of decision making at Bioware.

This general consensus that the reason that m/m content isn't in the game, is because it's a male dominated society, and that the demographic is primarily straight males, has more holes than a block of swiss cheese.  If that's the case, DA shouldn't have m/m content in it, but it does.   And before anyone steps in here and tells me that the two games are targetted to different audiences, you need to put up some numbers.  You need to put up a lot of numbers.  I don't believe the numbers are there to support it. 

DA's M/M was not flattering and it was not respectful.

1. It was relegated to the non-human, which kept the golden-boy quarterback human squadmate free of the icky M/M.

2. Zevran is the last to join, and the easiest to murder. Players can go through DAO and not realize he could've been part of the crew. Thus BioWare "shielded" people who are afraid of having teh ghey forced onto them.

3. Zevran's initial flirting with male Wardens comes with a disclaimer- "Are you offended because we're both males?" Yet another handshake with homophobia.

You think gay males don't like to play games like ME?  You think gay males don't play shooters?  You think straight males don't like to play RPGs like Dragon Age?  Talk about stereotyping, and frankly, it's offensive.

Also, I've read comments stating that the reason that m/m content isn't in the game, is because Bioware is afraid of controversy from the media, because of the Fox News report about the romance scenes in ME.  You think a news reporter or religious fanatic gives a damn whether or not the title of the game is ME or DA, that he/she is allegedly wanting to drum up controversy over?  Bioware certainly wasn't afraid of the controversy whenever they released DA, was they?

No kidding, of course they know that we're here. But any of their content which people believe is specifically addressed to us is in a fact a lie. If there were any such content, we'd have all the same choices given to straight gamers. But for every one of BioWare's npcs or squadmates who are amenable to M/M or F/F with the player, each of them is compelled to be amenable to M/F as well. No exceptions. Yet so many characters who take M/F are unavailable for M/M or F/F. Main course vs crumbs. Pointing to Zevran as an example of same-sex acceptance is like saying Oprah alone represents improved race depictions on TV. Such ideas are no more than wishful thinking at best, but more often just lies being cooked up.

Certainly that's the model for ME2. And ME1. And JE. And KOTOR. Whatever same-sex encounters or relationships exist in BioWare games are always saddled with accessibility for heterosexual encounters, or dogged by crime and tragedy. Never once has there been one wherein partners are allowed petty privilege of simply being together. BioWare reserves all of that for the hetero-pairings.

I understand the frustration, but I have to interject... what's wrong with being sensitive to people who are uncomfortable with homosexuality?  Not everyone who is uncomfortable with the idea is a bad person.  If you can't be sensitive to those with deeply held aversions to homosexuality, how can you expect the same respect?  Just sayin'.  Keep fighting the good fight.


Edit: I feel the need to point out, as this is the internet, that I am NOT in any way defending the people who legitimately hate or proactively discriminate against homosexuality.  Only for those people who find themselves uncomfortable with the subject, but have no problem with how others live their lives.  I know people like this, and they are good people.  Hell, one of our mutual friends is homosexual and they have no problem hanging out with them.

Modifié par kill_switch_423, 19 décembre 2010 - 04:53 .

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Pwner1323 wrote...

Everytime I see this thread popping up I ask myself why BW has remained so silent regarding this matter.

Very peculiar.......

Indeed. Tight lipped and ignorant.  Every time I reiterate that I love Bioware but am irritated by them it feels less sincere at this point.


*runs off to make my own damn game with what I want since they wont even ACKNOWLEDGE this fanbase*