9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Pwner1323]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

they'll get something about converting children into "raging homosexual, HIV transmitting machine intent on infecting our people" (thats paraphrasing, but I've heard that by them before)

Likely. they'd probably try to get another conservative "I don't know jack of what Im talking about" psychologistt.

She really gave us anspiring psychologists a bad name that day. Im in my first year of psychology btw and I personally don't see the harm in S/S in games. You can choose, just like in real life. You choose you're orientation, why can't people wrap they're heads around it? Kids and teens don't imitate anything of what we see in TV or VG like everyone says. Jeez, WTH!?

[hypothead]

hypothead wrote...

I think it would be cool to have more
options femshep can get with anyone under the sun but where is the man
love at plus tali and femshep would be such a win.

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Lets make a deal lol I'll give you my MShepard's Tali for your FShepard, and you give me your FShepard's Kaidan win win

You have your self a deal, femshep and tali FTW

Modifié par hypothead, 19 décembre 2010 - 07:45 .

[Pwner1323]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Well to me... well me at least. It felt like I sort of kind of got to have my Shepard express his feelings for Kaidan via Kelly the yeomen. She herself voices that gender and species do not matter and after Horizon I got the opportunity to say that "i miss him" about kaidan which yielded M Shep saying "i wish we had more time together." something little but i take what i can get.
 

That's so sweet. Now I really feel bad for you and every other gay ME gamer in this thread.  

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Pwner1323 wrote...


That's so sweet. Now I really feel bad for you and every other gay ME gamer in this thread.  

It was probably androgynous/asexual whatever word fits and not meant "romanticaly" but to me it works all the same. Subtely. There isn't enough when it comes to romance in games. Not everything is wham bam I LIKE YOU lol

NOW since people keep ignoring my attempt to lead a conversation lol I'll start.

I'd like to see in future games where your romance is harder to come by, perhaps Loyalty missions or a sort required and then some to get their attention. And, depending on romance choice, said choice is pulled into the main plot and effects the story depending on who they are and their role.

And your personality with decisions along the way determine how the react to you throughout the game. Someone you romanced, may not stay romanced if you say are too tough on situations or too tough. All relative to the character chosen.

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 19 décembre 2010 - 07:48 .

[MisterDyslexo]

Regarding a future gay character, I haven't read the novels, but from what I can tell there is a major character who is gay. I believe he's some sort of Alliance agent or something, which to me goes along fine for my wish to have an espionage-style RPG Mass Effect game like Splinter Cell and Alpha Protocol. Thats just wishful thinking for two things on my part though. I'd settle for ME3 though.

Edit: I wasn't ignoring you, I just type slow

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 19 décembre 2010 - 07:48 .

[Wittand25]

Eromenos wrote...
When it comes to Jack I find her to be realistic but BioWare's shortcomings for our potential responses were, as I think you agree, failure all the way. I would've clarified to her that she's one of us and that she is right to give in to wanting to belong, but not to hope for romance or sex with me. Not BioWare, though...if it's young, thin, and female, then all guys must want to hit that.

I'll take your word for it about Miranda. I extricate myself from the room with a neutral goodbye as soon as I detect the warning signs. The other choices seem like they might encourage her. BioWare was kind enough to allow me that escape, at least. But it does not excuse their assumption that a male Shepard must always be angling for sex/romance with the females, especially considering that gay men who play male Shepards are not allowed to have any choices of our own.

I sincerely doubt that Miranda and Tali ask us male Shepards if we might be disinterested because we might prefer men. That would be just too much for BioWare's pattern of homophobic appeasement. I know Tali does not ask that. If Miranda does, I might actually have more to talk about with her. Does she? I doubt it.

Unlike Zevran.

Miranda and Tali stopp talking to you once you make it clear that you won´t have sex with them but they are more polite about it than Jack. Zevran never asks if you are into women he only asks if he is your type if you are male, and that makes him better than the other three options who just assume that you are into them if the Warden fits their sexual preferance, I would rather like it if all future romanceable NPCs have a similar conversation before the actual romance starts.

And could you please stopp using the word homophobic on the forum. It is a rather strong word and should be used carefully. It does in no way suit the situation here and throwing it around carelessly does achieve nothing positive and only creates hostility and actually lowers our chances of seeing a change in the franchise. Ask yourself if you were a developer and read your postings here in the forum would you bother to include s/s content if that is the reaction you get for your efforts?

[Eromenos]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

But it does not excuse their assumption that a male Shepard must always be angling for sex/romance with the females, especially considering that gay men who play male Shepards are not allowed to have any choices of our own.

I sincerely doubt that Miranda and Tali ask us male Shepards if we might be disinterested because we might prefer men. That would be just too much for BioWare's pattern of homophobic appeasement. I know Tali does not ask that. If Miranda does, I might actually have more to talk about with her. Does she? I doubt it.

Unlike Zevran.

Well to me... well me at least. It felt like I sort of kind of got to have my Shepard express his feelings for Kaidan via Kelly the yeomen. She herself voices that gender and species do not matter and after Horizon I got the opportunity to say that "i miss him" about kaidan which yielded M Shep saying "i wish we had more time together." something little but i take what i can get.
 
EDIT: Now tell me what you would LIKE to see. Describe a character, setting for sorts, etc.

I agree with you on Shepard reminiscing about Kaidan. Unfortunately for me, I also had to deal with...uh...the aforementioned mistaken attractions from wimmin of the ship, plus Gianna, Shiala, and even Aria trying to pimp her girls to me, all because I was nice to them.

What I want- Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale in ME3 recording M/M and F/F lines to be used with Kaidan and Ashley, so that if or when Gibbed makes a ME3 editor we'll be able to edit in what BioWare isn't going to allow into retail.

Here, let me try again...Kaidan and Ashley being able to fall in love with same-sex protagonist in ME3, whether it's Shepard or the new one. But not at the same time!

Not just Kaidan and Ashley. Whoever are the new leading male and female squadmates as well.

Modifié par Eromenos, 19 décembre 2010 - 08:02 .

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Wittand25 wrote...

Yes Miranda and Tali both stop once you say no (which my single shepard did) Jack was... difficult but when isnt she its her personality.

And yes - no more use of the word "homophobic" its too strong a definitive word to use without multitude of facts to back it up and going back to a DA-Zev related disussion is asking for a lockdown. So.. 

Moving along.

Your idea would be a romance asking up front if they are your type correct? If so I am for that if its subtle enough.

EDIT: Eromenus - I didn't have a problem with kisses from Thessia or Gaiana or whatever her name. It felt natural for THEM to want Shepard. He didn't respond back in kind he just smiled, as would I if killed by an beautiful woman, even if it is men that I like.

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 19 décembre 2010 - 08:01 .

[Eromenos]

Wittand25 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
When it comes to Jack I find her to be realistic but BioWare's shortcomings for our potential responses were, as I think you agree, failure all the way. I would've clarified to her that she's one of us and that she is right to give in to wanting to belong, but not to hope for romance or sex with me. Not BioWare, though...if it's young, thin, and female, then all guys must want to hit that.

I'll take your word for it about Miranda. I extricate myself from the room with a neutral goodbye as soon as I detect the warning signs. The other choices seem like they might encourage her. BioWare was kind enough to allow me that escape, at least. But it does not excuse their assumption that a male Shepard must always be angling for sex/romance with the females, especially considering that gay men who play male Shepards are not allowed to have any choices of our own.

I sincerely doubt that Miranda and Tali ask us male Shepards if we might be disinterested because we might prefer men. That would be just too much for BioWare's pattern of homophobic appeasement. I know Tali does not ask that. If Miranda does, I might actually have more to talk about with her. Does she? I doubt it.

Unlike Zevran.

Miranda and Tali stopp talking to you once you make it clear that you won´t have sex with them but they are more polite about it than Jack. Zevran never asks if you are into women he only asks if he is your type if you are male, and that makes him better than the other three options who just assume that you are into them if the Warden fits their sexual preferance, I would rather like it if all future romanceable NPCs have a similar conversation before the actual romance starts.

And could you please stopp using the word homophobic on the forum. It is a rather strong word and should be used carefully. It does in no way suit the situation here and throwing it around carelessly does achieve nothing positive and only creates hostility and actually lowers our chances of seeing a change in the franchise. Ask yourself if you were a developer and read your postings here in the forum would you bother to include s/s content if that is the reaction you get for your efforts?

I'm familiar with both Miranda and Tali's newfound reticence. Jack doesn't let it go each time we approach her.

Zevran asks if it's a problem that he's flirting with a male Warden. Not the flirting part. The male part. Now, why ever would that one be a problem, but not the other?

If it's not homophobia to you, then what do you call BioWare's reluctance to portray queer people positively? Or their reluctance to address us openly? What is queer acceptance in your view, and what is homophobia in your view?

[Pwner1323]

How to fix:



*Meet Ben in ME3*



*Invite him to Squad*



*Talk to him in Normandy*



*get to know him*



*They confess to each other they are gay*



*Happily ever after*



Something just ocurred to me though. In ME2 you can romance someone but still end up with someone else. There cannot be a "Im Commander Shepard and im gay" dialog since he can then go and smooch Kelly or some other female. This can be fixed with a bisexual statement but what if the player wants to be ONLY gay? It can lock all other advances with other females but still....

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Eromenos - That term does not fit the situation. He is asking because well some people may not want hit on by him. A straight warden or gay warden. Its no decloration of homosexuality is evil bla bla bla. And once again: stop derailing the thread please. Make a topic in Dragon Age forum or private message said person civily. This thread is related to Mass Effect since its in that section. To be honest we need a "general - general" thread to avoid this type of thing but until such, please show restraint so no lockdown of thread.

You havent told me yourself what you WOULD want in the future.

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 19 décembre 2010 - 08:07 .

[Pwner1323]

What about kaidan? Does a true gay gamer think he is a "closet case"? I've been killing myself for an answear for a very long time.

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Pwner1323 wrote...

What about kaidan? Does a true gay gamer think he is a "closet case"? I've been killing myself for an answear for a very long time.

I don't think its very closet if you play as M Shep. You feel romantic tension lol Just never amounts to anything. Fratnernization, etc whatever is my excuse why it isn't shown lol

Personally I don't like the "closet" term or coming out term. Im ME no different in that I like dudes. Some people I know know that I do, some people dont. They find out however they do I dont go screaming I LIKE MEN like its a staple of who I am because its not. Its one aspect of me. One of many.


Eromenos: ignoring the issue and dodging it is not homophobia. One cannot put a label on it just because they won't outright answer. Irritating as it may be, they haven't slapped labels on this fanbase, so I would restrain from name calling. Get back on topic.

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 19 décembre 2010 - 08:17 .

[MisterDyslexo]

Pwner1323 wrote...
There cannot be a "Im Commander Shepard and im gay" dialog since he can then go and smooch Kelly or some other female. This can be fixed with a bisexual statement but what if the player wants to be ONLY gay? It can lock all other advances with other females but still....

Oh but there is. FemShep in ME1 to Liara "I'm on interested in men,"
Same FemShep in ME2 "Let's have dinner Kelly"

The only way to be gay/straight/bi is to simply watch out for your convo choices. I'm sure that you guys think some sort of option early in the game would fix that, but if that happened people would say that having that was homophobic and saying that we can't choose our own decisions. The best way is that you gotta keep an eye on everything you say. Thats part of the beauty about Mass Effect's role-playing though, because you've never been locked in as anything. You could be paragon one moment, renegade the next. Xenophobe one second, xenophiliac the next.

[Pwner1323]

Gotcha. In that case it could work, but they may also use it as an excuse NOT to do it.



BUMMER

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Okay im going to bed now so everyone else be civil and stay on topic. Being rude gets no one anywhere.

[Pwner1323]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Pwner1323 wrote...

What about kaidan? Does a true gay gamer think he is a "closet case"? I've been killing myself for an answear for a very long time.

I don't think its very closet if you play as M Shep. You feel romantic tension lol Just never amounts to anything. Fratnernization, etc whatever is my excuse why it isn't shown lol

Im not gay but It always felt different talking to him then those bro conversations with Wrex in the hangar.

Shepard....

Wrex......

Wrex....

Shepard.......

I sometimes feel attracted to men but I account it to my increased women thinking power and what you say about "sexual tension". Plus, I can't say no to the boobies!!!!!!  



Is "closet case" frowned upon the gay community? Just asking.

[Pwner1323]

Phantom Actuality wrote...

Pwner1323 wrote...

FOX jumped down BW's throat about sexual scenes in ME1. BW is scared it will happen again if they include S/S in ME.

That's my take on the subject anyway.....

Hmm, let me get this straight.

So Bioware has had gay content in several of their games leading up to ME1.  Right?  They didn't put the gay content in ME1.  Why didn't they put the gay content in ME1?  I missed that reason.

Then there was a report from Fox News about sexual content in ME1, after ME1's release.  Then Bioware put the gay content in DA.  Fox didn't "jump down their throat"? 

Then Bioware did not put the gay content in ME2, just as they did not put it in ME1, because they were scared  Fox would "jump down their throat"?

Yeah...sure.  I'm not sure which is worse, that reasoning, or wacko conspiracy theroists.  Unless of course I'm missing something here.

Yeah, but it was ME that FOX attacked, not DA. It was probably the aliens.....

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Is "closet case" frowned upon the gay community? Just asking.

wouldn't know that answer myself. I dont know any gay dudes in person myself.

Phantom - great point but besides that there is little else we know to give a reason to why they backed off on Mass Effect with what they originally had planned. So its anyones guess until Bioware ever says why. Personally I highly doubt its fox. Just seems sill a reason.

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 19 décembre 2010 - 08:34 .

[MisterDyslexo]

Fox attacked Mass Effect and not Dragon Age for two main reasons:

1. They had already attacked ME1 prior to DA:O's release

2. Dragon Age doesn't quite draw in all the Halo fragkids. Kids tend to find the space setting much much more attractive than the medieval age, especially since they have guns so clearly having guns in a game makes it a combat focused shooter *facepalms at people who don't understand R,P,G*

[Pwner1323]

RPGs FTW!



Anyway, Im also hitting the pillow. Keep up the fight brothers. Im certain ME3 will give ya some Ben-ass-spanking. lol

[Eromenos]

Phantom Actuality wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
*shrug* I'm not one for gore. I'm not a fan of blood, so the most I can do is toggle off some options in the menu. But I see what you're getting at. Diverting to an issue that you feel you hold the high ground on.

I can play. BioWare games happen to be 3-D RPGs, and so I expect there to be violence. What degree of violence is permissible? Anything that fits with the narrative. Oh, I happen to favor casters. If Zevran pulls a flourishing decapitation on somebody, it's usually his own doing. I hate having to micromanage since that cuts into the epicness.

Wait, are you saying you're the peace advocate? I take it you mean it could be seen as wrong to purchase games which glorify violent behavior, in the same way that they also happen to glorify homophobia? Here's what you missed- everybody in the teams can commit violence. Not everybody in the team is allowed to love.

You want more gay content in the game, then you'll get no argument from me.

For me, this isn't a matter of attaining higher ground with you.  The two are interwoven with one another.  They both can leave impressions on the player. 

Something else to consider here.  Who decides what's positive and what's negative?  You want to cram your version of what you personally see as postive, and ignore the fact that it's totally subjective?  I see you as an opponent to free speech.

I think that complaining about the fact that Zevran can be killed so early in the game, and this serving as negative reinforcement to impressionable minds, while turning your head to the intense violence of the game as acceptable, is self serving and hypocritical.  You want to censor the part of the game that you personally have a vested interest in, and the hell with everything else.  I don't believe in that.

Lack of love, which is intangible, does not pardon violence.  One act, or lack there of, does not excuse another.  Let's not deflect from the core of this discussion.    You can dress a pig up all you want, but it's still a pig.  This was never a question of love on my part, it was a question of what you consider as a postive reinforcement to others, by adding and subtracting content, which you deem as postive and negative.  Something that I consider as dictatorial, censorship, and against free speech.

As I said before, I don't have a problem with Bioware adding gay content to the game.  Doesn't bother me whatsoever.

Since you're focusing on merits of subjectivity for positive/negative portraits, you cannot afford to excuse BioWare's culpability. They abuse the goodwill credited to their own establishment status when they projects= images of the queer community that do nothing but "keep us in our place" as victims, toys, and villains.

An opponent to free speech? Help find the points where I may have demanded boycotts or called a petition. Such ideas do not come from me. But I think what you're trying to spell out is that I must be bullying them. Surprise. If they don't like it...they can come in here. And risk exposure. Oops.

I don't believe your claims that you support added gay content. You say and believe that you do, but putting your trust into a system of plausible deniability is simply lending privilege and credit to the corporate entity that profits through exploitation of a community whose representations in media, politics, and society are outnumbered to the point where its depictions can be warped at will on the excuse that the system in play is good for everyone.

Contending something like that is reserved for people who have the comfort of distance from being implicated as a direct combatant in proximity to the contest. Yet you interject yourself into this argument because you are familiar with exertions of power, and your concern is one of self-interest despite your claim that you're shielding a standard for cooperation. You envision any capitulation on BioWare's part to my allegations as their opening the door for my kind to..."take over" and gain an "undue" influence over the structuring of their narratives.

For you to argue adamantly in favor of BioWare's authorship you would have to place any perspective on their homophobia secondary to "rights of the majority" which you translate as being free from responsibility for any teachings about bad gays to widespread consumers. I cannot believe the disclaimer that you support added gay content. It does not fit in with your support behind those who have demonstrated repeatedly unwillingness to open an extended dialogue.

Modifié par Eromenos, 19 décembre 2010 - 08:45 .