9243 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

sherban1988 wrote...

these are fictional characters. Their species, personality, looks, and yes, sexual prefferences are decided by someone when they are created. If you look on the first page, you'll see that at least some of the characters were intended to be romanceable by both male and female Shep, and then the same-sex part got cut out. That ain't right, in my opinion. I dunno if the devs simply decided they don't want SS romances, if they were afraid of public reaction (though again, looking at DA...) or what.

That Bioware clearly intended to design some characters as bisexual, then withdrew or cut this status (for whatever reasons) is concerning. While some explanations of varying quality have been offered (they had no time/space, Shepard was a 'pre-defined character') it seems to me that there was more behind their exclusion than simply development constraints or vague assertions that Shepard is somehow a different kind of character to others in Bioware's games. 

[jlb524]

To people worried about being 'gay' if a same-sex NPC hits on you: wouldn't that just affirm your straightness more? If some guy or gal hits on you and you say 'oh, hell no!' wouldn't that just add to your hetero-ness?



I RP a lesbian Shepard, and for every guy I turn down, I feel it just affirms my Shepard's lesbian sexuality even more. I just don't see why that would be a problem.

[Privateerkev]

I'm all for people having choices in these games. Put the choices in. If people don't want to make that choice, then they should just avoid that choice.



I personally do not like some of the renegade options/interrupts. But I would never advocate for them to be removed. I see this the same way. I probably wouldn't make those relationship choices if they were offered. Because I just don't feel like exploring that in a video game. Nor do I ever think of any of my characters being bi/gay. But I think the choice should be there for those who do.



And the children who are worried that having gay options in a game will assault their sexuality need to better define their own sexuality. And the people who want bi/gay options need to stop walking on eggshells around these insecure people.

[sherban1988]

Privateerkev wrote...

I personally do not like some of the renegade options/interrupts. But I would never advocate for them to be removed. I see this the same way. I probably wouldn't make those relationship choices if they were offered. Because I just don't feel like exploring that in a video game. Nor do I ever think of any of my characters being bi/gay. But I think the choice should be there for those who do.

Excellent point made about the renegade options.

There are times where Shep can be downright brutal, if you so choose. I can't believe that same sex relationships are as bad as some of the things renegade Shep does. But then of course, it's all about how society depicts these things. There are a bazillion movies about one guy leaving a trail of dead bodies on the way to his goal, so that's perfectly cool, but there are very few movies about same-sex relationships (RELATIONSHIPS!! not sex!) so that's like "Oh.. get that away from me". That's effed up!

Privateerkev wrote...

And the children who are
worried that having gay options in a game will assault their sexuality
need to better define their own sexuality. And the people who want
bi/gay options need to stop walking on eggshells around these insecure
people.

True this. I don't get the problem if the option is there! If it was forced on you, like "you can only finish the game if you are in a same-sex relationship" then I'd get it. But it's just there, in the game. You don't want to play it, don't play it (this is where those check box or color-code text ideas would come in handy).

Modifié par sherban1988, 18 juin 2010 - 02:52 .

[zvbxrpl]

Spornicus wrote...

You can have like 5 husbands as a guy in Fable 2, and that didn't freak people out a lot. But deciding on buying a game based on whether you can gay it up is NOT a good way to make a decision on buying a certain game. And what about Liara/Femshep? Is that not good enough? Are people demanding Garrus get down with a male Shepard? That's still gonna ****** off a lot more people than if Bioware sticks with a straight Shepard. And above all, Bioware is a company. That wants to turn profit.

I don't really think anyone will buy the game or refuse to buy the game based on the presence or lack of same-sex romance.  It's more along the lines of saying, "Hey, this is a good game, but seeing as I don't really like [guys/girls/the opposite-sex LIs that are in the game], I'd kind of like my [MaleShep/FemShep] to be able to enter a relationship with this character.  I think that I woud have more fun with this game I like if that were the case."  And then, since the company that makes the game has done that in other games they make, including a previous one in the franchise, the people saying this scratch their heads and wonder why the company didn't do so this time, and ask people in the company, "Hey, what gives?"

[sarcasm]And as to people for whom Liara/FemShep is not good enough, I can't imagine who that would be.  Certainly not gay men or straight women playing MaleSheps.  Why, that wouldn't be what you would expect at all. [/sarcasm]

[SuperMedbh]

STG wrote...

mattahraw wrote...

Besides which, there was small fox news outrage about ME1 and i don't think it hurt sales. All publicity is good publicity, they say.

So you're saying that after hearing fox news reports, parents decided that their kids should play the game?

I'm with Mattahraw here.  Mass Effect was marketed at a mature audience.  Videogames aren't just for teens, not anymore.  While the general public might not realize that yet, Bioware certainly does.  Joe Gamer (actually, including casual games, Jane Gamer) is now an adult with a job who can buy fifty dollar titles when he wants to. 

Short of it is that a reactionary mother might not get her child a videogame because it has some PG-13 love scenes in it, but if that same publicity pulls in a twenty five year old gamer, they're better off.

[Arik7]

I support this thread!

[Privateerkev]

sherban1988 wrote...

Privateerkev wrote...

I personally do not like some of the renegade options/interrupts. But I would never advocate for them to be removed. I see this the same way. I probably wouldn't make those relationship choices if they were offered. Because I just don't feel like exploring that in a video game. Nor do I ever think of any of my characters being bi/gay. But I think the choice should be there for those who do.

Excellent point made about the renegade options.

There are times where Shep can be downright brutal, if you so choose. I can't believe that same sex relationships are as bad as some of the things renegade Shep does. But then of course, it's all about how society depicts these things. There are a bazillion movies about one guy leaving a trail of dead bodies on the way to his goal, so that's perfectly cool, but there are very few movies about same-sex relationships (RELATIONSHIPS!! not sex!) so that's like "Oh.. get that away from me". That's effed up!

I do not mean to equate renegade options with same-sex relationship options. To me, what they have in common, is that they would represent choices for my character that I simply would not make. At least not with my "canon" character. I do occasionally try different stuff with other characters to see other parts of the game.

I just wish that those who do not want to choose same-sex options simply did what I do with renegade options. Just avoid them... Stop trying to ruin the game for other people all because those options do not fit with how you view your own character.

[RenownedRyan]

Cartims wrote...

Tis a pity the world's not gay!

Actually it's not...since we couldn't reproduce that way. I kid.

Truthfully I have nothing against homosexuality.  I think it should be an individual's choice, but I also think that ME3 should not have squadmates automatically be that way ala DA:O.  The awkward conversations if you're a heterosexual are too much to bear.  I purpose that the option be there, but it has to be designated at the beginning of the game.  Just like real life, Shepard can choose to be gay.  He won't have it thrust upon him like the warden has.  Just my humble opnion.

[RenownedRyan]

jlb524 wrote...

To people worried about being 'gay' if a same-sex NPC hits on you: wouldn't that just affirm your straightness more? If some guy or gal hits on you and you say 'oh, hell no!' wouldn't that just add to your hetero-ness?

I RP a lesbian Shepard, and for every guy I turn down, I feel it just affirms my Shepard's lesbian sexuality even more. I just don't see why that would be a problem.

Because it's just a place I don't want characters to go.  I don't want Thane hiting on my Shep, because that would change my opnion of Thane (not negatively, just I'd think of him differently).  I don't want guys hitting on me, if I were gay I wouldn't want girls hitting on me.  It's that simple.  It just provides an awkward situation when you have to say "No thank you, I'm straight/gay"  so I don't want that in a video game.  Do I think it should be possible?  Yes.  But it should be determined at the character creation screen, since most players already seem to have that figured out when they create a profile.

[Wittand25]

RenownedRyan wrote...
Because it's just a place I don't want characters to go.  I don't want Thane hiting on my Shep, because that would change my opnion of Thane (not negatively, just I'd think of him differently).  I don't want guys hitting on me, if I were gay I wouldn't want girls hitting on me.  It's that simple.  It just provides an awkward situation when you have to say "No thank you, I'm straight/gay"  so I don't want that in a video game.  Do I think it should be possible?  Yes.  But it should be determined at the character creation screen, since most players already seem to have that figured out when they create a profile.

Most people here do want that it is clearly possible which dialog choiches start a romance (throug colored font or similar) and that every romance has to be initiated by the player.
But ME2 is already the way that it is impossible to talk to the opposite sex LI without getting the offer for romance if you want it or not, I dont see why a possible same sex LI should be any different. And saying "No thanks I am not into you" well you already have to say that  twice in the game, unless you want to try to date two of the LI at the same time.

[Bookman230]

I have another suggestion. Go the route of Jade Empire. Only have the option of initiating a s/s romance after rejecting the hetero LIs.

[The Uncanny]

Bookman230 wrote...

I have another suggestion. Go the route of Jade Empire. Only have the option of initiating a s/s romance after rejecting the hetero LIs.

That sounds fair. I’m perfectly happy to tour the ship telling every single guy on the crew that I’m really not interested so long as it ultimately results in my getting what I want.

[jselene]

@Jade Empire idea:
I take it you're believers in No Bisexuals, then? 

I kid, but... really, it feels like a step back.  JE was released five years ago, when video games were still seen as "kids only," and burying same-sex relationships was basically required to get it through the press and ESRB.  But in 2010?  No.  Just no. 

First off, we all know that this would not apply to women.  There's already Liara, so f/f will appear no matter what.  Thus, unlike in Jade Empire, the het-rejection system will only apply to males.  While it wouldn't apply to me personally, on principle, I am irked.  True, manShep isn't forced into het relationships off the bat like the hero in JE was, but slapping a single "hidden" same-sex romance onto the end of a trilogy with five+ straight ones (which are often sprung upon you by weirdly labeled dialogue) already... About 10 people would actually see it, and, let's be honest: does anybody want an "Oh, hey, I noticed you aren't going out with any of the ladies.  I think I love you now!"  tacked onto the end of the very last game, after all the other ME3 romances have already gone through 50% of their content?  (Don't forget, you have to give Shep time to reject the new women too.)

It just reinforces the double standard.

I'm sorry for the ranting, it's nothing personal towards anyone, but this is my least favorite option.  If Bioware is so scared of exposing 13 year old boys to the ghey, I'd rather they just make Kaidan the LI, and give new, non-imported Sheps the option to choose who got Virmired through dialogue, or somesuch.  Also: colored romance dialogue.  It benefits everyone! 

[Bookman230]

I see, good points. But Sky(the gay option) didn't initiate anything. He expressed his confusion at how your character rejected the two hot ladies in your group who were fawning over you(which is a question any guy would ask if he thought you to be a heterosexual). then you can tell him it's because you can't be distracted from the mission and stuff like that or because you want him. YOU have to initiate whether you want it to happen. But yeah, seeing as lesbian romances don't go through that, I suppose it is a double standard.

[elearon1]

>>Just like real life, Shepard can choose to be gay. He won't have it thrust upon him like the warden has.

Not quite sure what you're saying here - I don't think the Warden ever has "being gay" thrust upon him ... er, that is ... you get my drift. Your Warden likely is gay, bi, or straight from the get go and no amount of suggestive teasing from Zev or obsessive stalking from Leliana should force you to change that ... but these *characters* are both bisexual and not shy to let you know they're interested ... better than them being ashamed of it or behaving like it is a crime and trying to hide it. In any event, you can always say "no" when they show interest and go on to pursue a heterosexual relationship ... or none at all if that is your preference. I think Alistair is annoying and I hate Dog, but I'm not suggesting either one of them be changed to suit my personal tastes.

Modifié par elearon1, 20 juin 2010 - 01:37 .

[LiquidGrape]

[Purge]

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 18 juillet 2010 - 12:43 .

[ElitePinecone]

RenownedRyan wrote...

Because it's just a place I don't want characters to go.  I don't want Thane hiting on my Shep, because that would change my opnion of Thane (not negatively, just I'd think of him differently).  I don't want guys hitting on me, if I were gay I wouldn't want girls hitting on me.  It's that simple.  It just provides an awkward situation when you have to say "No thank you, I'm straight/gay"  so I don't want that in a video game.  Do I think it should be possible?  Yes.  But it should be determined at the character creation screen, since most players already seem to have that figured out when they create a profile.

This isn't a personal attack, but your post represents an enormous and unfair double standard. You would feel awkward if squadmates from the same sex hit on you - fine. But gay or lesbian players would also feel - and have felt - awkward about opposite-gender squadmates hitting on us too. For two games we've had to wade through at least 5 romance options of the opposite gender throwing themselves at us. For the most part, I think, we deal with it. There's been no squeals of discomfort when Ashley has hit on our male Shepards, or Jacob on our female Shepards. 

Should your personal discomfort with getting hit on by a character of the opposite gender automatically override the importance of providing options to the sizable number of players who feel awkward as it is getting hit on by heterosexual characters? Suppose, hypothetically, that for the sake of the argument all the romance options were homosexual. You'd be outraged - quite rightly - and you'd expect them to include heterosexual options so your Shepard could follow your own preferences. 

Again, not a personal attack, but do you appreciate the double standards? 

[Bookman230]

ElitePinecone wrote...

RenownedRyan wrote...

Because it's just a place I don't want characters to go.  I don't want Thane hiting on my Shep, because that would change my opnion of Thane (not negatively, just I'd think of him differently).  I don't want guys hitting on me, if I were gay I wouldn't want girls hitting on me.  It's that simple.  It just provides an awkward situation when you have to say "No thank you, I'm straight/gay"  so I don't want that in a video game.  Do I think it should be possible?  Yes.  But it should be determined at the character creation screen, since most players already seem to have that figured out when they create a profile.

This isn't a personal attack, but your post represents an enormous and unfair double standard. You would feel awkward if squadmates from the same sex hit on you - fine. But gay or lesbian players would also feel - and have felt - awkward about opposite-gender squadmates hitting on us too. For two games we've had to wade through at least 5 romance options of the opposite gender throwing themselves at us. For the most part, I think, we deal with it. There's been no squeals of discomfort when Ashley has hit on our male Shepards, or Jacob on our female Shepards. 

Should your personal discomfort with getting hit on by a character of the opposite gender automatically override the importance of providing options to the sizable number of players who feel awkward as it is getting hit on by heterosexual characters? Suppose, hypothetically, that for the sake of the argument all the romance options were homosexual. You'd be outraged - quite rightly - and you'd expect them to include heterosexual options so your Shepard could follow your own preferences. 

Again, not a personal attack, but do you appreciate the double standards? 

To be fair, he's not agianst the idea. He supports the idea with a suggestion we ourselves suggested and would like. Choosing Shep's sexuality. That way, if you're gay/lesbian you won't have (fe)males hitting on your Shepard and vice versa.

[SuperMedbh]

Looking at social trends, the notion that no one would be openly gay among the 20 or so NPCs with any significant "on stage" time is fairly hard to swallow. But then again, SF is rarely about the future, at least in terms of culture. Remember those all male starship crews in pre-80s novels/movies?

[Boombox]

I fully support this! I'd prefer a couple of bi characters included like Dragon Age.



I agree that they need to do a flirt option (not as a paragon option, a new one altogether) so you can't accidently romance a character unless you start flirting with them first.

[Cootie]

Question about the coloured text when it comes to flirting options. Does this mean that every time we want to just talk to Jacob as FemSheps, there'd be a coloured font?

[DanaScu]

Cootie wrote...

Question about the coloured text when it comes to flirting options. Does this mean that every time we want to just talk to Jacob as FemSheps, there'd be a coloured font?

It would help. It might even make me rethink never talking to Jacob which is the current state of things. Besides the conversation about upgrading the Normandy2, and the minimum necessary to get his loyalty mission [at least during the mission he sticks to business only] I never use him in my squad and never talk to him on the ship. Conversation with Jacob made me miss the "old fashioned" text only that actually "said" what was printed, and not a general "I want to say something good/neutral/mean" option.

[ElitePinecone]

Cootie wrote...

Question about the coloured text when it comes to flirting options. Does this mean that every time we want to just talk to Jacob as FemSheps, there'd be a coloured font?

Presumably yes. As well as alerting people to possible romantic minefields, it would be useful if you absolutely despise a character and only want to talk about practical things like upgrades or loyalty missions

Of all the methods discussed (here and in previous threads) of implementing same-sex romances, coloured font for romantic dialogue seems to me to be the easiest, most practical and most effective. It would require infinitely less work than setting up a new game menu screen where the player sets their orientation (think of all the coding for alternate dialogue and the like this would require), and is effective for both s/s romances and people who just don't want to talk to certain characters.  

[FataliTensei]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Cootie wrote...

Question about the coloured text when it comes to flirting options. Does this mean that every time we want to just talk to Jacob as FemSheps, there'd be a coloured font?

Presumably yes. As well as alerting people to possible romantic minefields, it would be useful if you absolutely despise a character and only want to talk about practical things like upgrades or loyalty missions

Of all the methods discussed (here and in previous threads) of implementing same-sex romances, coloured font for romantic dialogue seems to me to be the easiest, most practical and most effective. It would require infinitely less work than setting up a new game menu screen where the player sets their orientation (think of all the coding for alternate dialogue and the like this would require), and is effective for both s/s romances and people who just don't want to talk to certain characters.  

Colored text seems the most easy and practical for sure, selecting your orientation and then having epople react to you differently would be kinda neat, but frankly that would take more time and money and since we just want an S/S option I think colored text is the way to go.