9243 réponses à ce sujet

[BigBody26]

didymos1120 wrote...

BigBody26 wrote...

Think about what you are asking of Bioware. Create a DLC that allows same sex romance or allow an option to choose sexual orientation in the Options menu to make your character gay.

Either of those would require making every character in the game bisexual.

Um, no.  It merely means providing at least one same-sex romance option for each gender.

So you only want to be able to have a same-sex romance with one character?  So let's say Bioware makes one of the existing characters...let's say Jacob....the same-sex option.  Many fans did not like Jacob so they would be disappointed.  If Bioware creates a new character, what happens when the fans do not like that character?  Then you will have people complaining that they wanted to romance character X or character Y, etc.  Either way your request puts Bioware in a lose-lose situation.  It's just not likely.

[didymos1120]

BigBody26 wrote...
So you only want to be able to have a same-sex romance with one character?  So let's say Bioware makes one of the existing characters...let's say Jacob....the same-sex option.  Many fans did not like Jacob so they would be disappointed.  If Bioware creates a new character, what happens when the fans do not like that character?  Then you will have people complaining that they wanted to romance character X or character Y, etc.  Either way your request puts Bioware in a lose-lose situation.  It's just not likely.

My point was that you were asserting that asking for same-sex romances is tantamount to asking that every character must be made available for same-sex romance, and that that is simply not true: there is an obvious minimum, and that minimum is what I pointed out.  Why did I point it out?  Because we've seen exactly that in other Bioware games: Jade Empire, with Sky and Silk Fox, and Dragon Age, with Leliana and Zevran.  

Was everyone who wants to see more same-sex romance options in games completely and utterly pleased with that minimum?  No, of course not.  But they're a damn sight more pleased about it than they are about what was done with ME, where (dubious PR exercises by corporate officers aside) same-sex romance (or, as some devs have insisted, a "fling" in ME2, even though the actual mechanics of it were basically identical to the other relationships) is possible for FemSheps (Liara and Kelly) but not MSheps, and where it's well known that they actually did a lot of the work on same-sex romances before chickening out and disabling them (ME1) or leaving them largely incomplete (ME2).

This line of argument fails for another reason:  NO ONE is ever pleased about everything, even sometimes when it's exactly what they asked for.  Some people hate everything about one ME game and just adore the other.  Some don't like either of them. Such is life.  I mean, you may as well say that Bioware should just stop making new guns in the series since people don't unconditionally love every single firearm they've ever released. 

Or, going back to your Jacob example, maybe they shouldn't have ANY romances since, as you noted, plenty of people thought Jacob sucked as an opposite-sex romance.  And actually, I've seen a number people say there really shouldn't be any romances of any sort whatsoever.  I.e., if you've got eyes and can read this forum, you ought to be acutely aware that Bioware can't win with everybody anyway. 

Just go look at some of the endless whining and fanboy rage in the ME2 PS3 threads for Christ's sake.  You'd think Bioware personally shot some of these people's dogs in the face with an RPG based on their behavior, instead of just porting ME2 to another platform.  Doesn't mean they shouldn't have done the port.

Modifié par didymos1120, 21 décembre 2010 - 04:49 .

[LoveAsThouWilt]

I would love title updates for Mass Effect 1 & 2 and then existing Kaidan in Mass Effect 3... because the dialogue already exists.....I just watched it again. Peeved me off that a character that so FIT my commander shepard was kicked to the curb away from him.

I'd even be for paying for a Directors Cut of the trilogy with the INTENDED Kaidan M/M romance. I'm that pathetic, but hell, they gave me a game where Shepard is suppose to be how we want him to be, but they don't give us the one perfect man they originally intended for him? What... bastards.

I think I shall go pout for awhile in Mass Effect 1 again. lol


EDIT: for you Thane lovers out there: 

Bioware sure does LOVE to plan for the samesex romances.. but not implementing them. Seriously Bioware, what the F dudes/ladies? Maybe they have something up their sleave like my dream Directors Cut someday.... better.

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 21 décembre 2010 - 07:59 .

[jonnyblueballs]

I thought this was about the movie Commando.

I can't come up with a good counter argument to this. Just as long as they don't turn Grunt, Mordin, Legion, or the bounty hunter guy into Elton John all of a sudden. Although i did get a weird feeling talking alone with Jacob and the Turian sometimes. Also, i don't want every character to be bisexual or homosexual because i doubt the majority would be that open even 200 years from now. It just wouldn't feel very realistic. Maybe like have one or two such characters, but keep everyone but Shepard's sexual preference more or less as a constant. Even though Shepard's ability to sway people with diplomacy and threatening is considerable...

A little off topic but since we're talking about sexual minorities: how about a romance option that has gone though some futuristic sex change and is now the hottest chick around? A lot of people would have to check out the game just for the media ruckus.

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

At least we'd get away from the bars with Asari strippers everywhere.

Don't talk tihs about Asari strippers.

[didymos1120]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...
EDIT: for you Thane lovers out there: 

Bioware sure does LOVE to plan for the samesex romances.. but not implementing them. Seriously Bioware, what the F dudes/ladies? Maybe they have something up their sleave like my dream Directors Cut someday.... better.

FemShep has unused romance dialogue for Jack (including the Renegade sex), Miranda, and Tali, though a lot of lines are missing: generally, the lines for the later stages of the romances.  In addition to Thane, MShep also has some lines for the Jacob romance, but it's about as complete as the Thane stuff you linked. The same-sex FemShep stuff is more complete in all three cases, but the same-sex "consummation scene" dialogue for both Sheps is non-existent. There are also replies for both Sheps to Mordin's "sex talk" for each of the same-sex romances (and there's one joke line for MShep in that Mordin convo about Garrus that was obviously never intended to be used.  It's also the only line MShep has with respect to Garrus as a romance. I swear someone put it in solely for people like me who go poking around in the game files).

Modifié par didymos1120, 21 décembre 2010 - 08:36 .

[Cold_Fusion]

I support the same-sex relations, why have femshep romance liara/kelly, and male shep with no one? It's not really fair.

If BW were to include a male love interest for male shep, (and a proper female one for fem shep) Why can't they be exclusively homosexual?(though they don't have to be)
 I mean when ever a gay romance is an option he or she's always a bisexual, and sometimes they take their sexuality too casually or say "it's just a one time thing", which makes me really dislike the character. (come off as *****ish to me)

Though I'd be happy if they just included one same sex option for each gender, that are likable and are fleshed out like all the other romantic interests.

[Dominus]

6 months, 3,480 posts, and no unanimous agreement. Do we really want to be talking about this until Holiday 2011?

[jonnyblueballs]

DominusVita wrote...

6 months, 3,480 posts, and no unanimous agreement. Do we really want to be talking about this until Holiday 2011?

Well, why not?

[Wittand25]

DominusVita wrote...

6 months, 3,480 posts, and no unanimous agreement. Do we really want to be talking about this until Holiday 2011?

Why not ? That is exactly the way Garrus and Tali were made available in ME2. What worked once can work a second time.

[ElitePinecone]

catabuca wrote...

If we take the view that gay and straight relationships are equal, then there is absolutely no difference in allowing Kaidan, for example, be 'suddenly' romanceable by a male Shepard than there is in Tali 'suddenly' being romanceably by a male Shepard. Neither were available in ME1 for a male Shepard to express an interest in (apart from by modding files, in the case of Kaidan - no such thing was achievable for Tali, nor Garrus), and yet in ME2 the writers found a way to open up that path for Tali. So it is a dead-end of an argument to suggest the same would not be possible for Kaidan and male Shepards. The ONLY difference, let's be clear here, is that it would mean Kaidan and the respective male Shep identifying as bi or gay. In terms of character progression this is absolutely no different than Tali recognising her feelings for Shepard ... the difference lies squarely with the player and how they choose to think about it. 

This. It's disheartening (and headdeskingly frustrating) when Shepard's or another character's 'defined sexuality' is brought up as an impediment to more choices in future romances. Sometimes it's a matter of stereotypes (and oddly it's almost always referring to male Shep) but there seems to be a view that presupposes Shepard's heterosexuality. 

Truth be told, though I'd be overjoyed with an option to romance Kaidan in ME3 (or even an upcoming ME2 DLC pack, if it's about the Virmire survivor), I think it's more likely that any s/s romances (assuming they're added, obviously) would be with (a) new character(s).  Would love to be proven wrong though 

[KMYash]

 New to the forum, too many pages to read in a decent amount of time so I read the first few and the last few. I have seem a lot of great arguments and would like to add my two cents WALL OF TEXT of thoughts and desires for more love in ME3

1. As much as I would LOVE some M!Shep/Kaidan I think that the best option for M!Shep may be an alien one. Unless I'm missing something, the romantic/sexual cultures of most aliens have not been really revealed. Not that I want a krogan S/SLI but from what I understand there is a significant difference in the number of females and males. Now one argument I'm expecting is the good old fashion procreation argument. If a species has multiple sexes then they must need them. Well if you look at real life Earth's history and go back enough in European history, there was a time where men saw women as baby making machines and evil. They believed that they needed to procreate with women but believed that romantic/affectionate relationships should be with other men. This isn't trying to go into RL gay history yada yada but I thought it is a good example of how cultural ideas can go around biological ones without destroying the future due to birth rates crashing.

2. I think a lot of people are afraid of ruining the basic idea of Shepard. I worry a bit too because, in various media, characters that "turn" gay are either (in case of males) softened in personality/looks or (in case of females) hardened. I would love to see a man's man Shepard who is gay. He doesn't need to wear a tutu and use a fairy wand instead of a gun to be gay. In the case of fem!Shep, she is already hard in a way but she doesn't need to go to the country plaid shirts and mullets of over stereotyped media lesbians nor does she have to become a lipstick lesbian. I haven't played much with the Liara storyline but I think they did fine in keeping Shep in character while giving her a homosexual romance. I have enough faith in Bioware to think they could do that for MShep as well.

3. As many people have mentioned. Not everyone needs to be gay/bisexual/etc to have this certain fan base happy. I'm sure, somewhere out there, there is a M!Shep/Zaeed fan. Now I think we can all agree that Zaeed probably has some Playboy magazines hidden behind the trash compactor and is not about to have some alone time with M!Shep. I don't think anyone is demanding that his character be changed to fit that. But with most media you need to suspend disbelief and all that stuff. People can believe that Tali never acted on her crush in the first game but as a more mature character she does in ME2. Same said with Garrus. Now I'm sure you can do that for Kaidan and MShep. Maybe in ME1 he didn't love/crush/whatever on MShep. Maybe he idolized/admired him as a soldier and that evolved. Making a previous character more open sexuality wise doesn't have to kill the character as they were.

that is enough for my wall of text, no desire to kill anyone with the block XD

[catabuca]

didymos1120 wrote...


The only reason people insist these characters must be straight is the (likely mostly cultural) tendency to assume "Het until proven otherwise".  Granted, the odds in real life often favor that assumption, but it's still just a rule of thumb.  That or they know damn well that there's nothing implausible about making them same-sex options, but they doggedly insist otherwise because, frankly, they're homophobic and/or kind of disturbingly territorial about their imaginary ME girlfriend/boyfriend.

I couldn't agree more strongly

[ElitePinecone]

catabuca wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...


The only reason people insist these characters must be straight is the (likely mostly cultural) tendency to assume "Het until proven otherwise".  Granted, the odds in real life often favor that assumption, but it's still just a rule of thumb.  That or they know damn well that there's nothing implausible about making them same-sex options, but they doggedly insist otherwise because, frankly, they're homophobic and/or kind of disturbingly territorial about their imaginary ME girlfriend/boyfriend.

I couldn't agree more strongly

I must've missed this post, because it sums up just about everything I was trying to say. There's nothing implausible about same-sex-attracted characters, and the assumption that everyone is straight until proven otherwise is an unwise one to make.  

[didymos1120]

DominusVita wrote...

6 months, 3,480 posts, and no unanimous agreement. Do we really want to be talking about this until Holiday 2011?

You realize this applies to basically every single topic ever, ME-related or not.  The answer is clear: humans should never have started in with this "language" nonsense.  It's nothin' but trouble.

[Eromenos]

BigBody26 wrote...

Think about what you are asking of Bioware. Create a DLC that allows same sex romance or allow an option to choose sexual orientation in the Options menu to make your character gay.

Either of those would require making every character in the game bisexual. If there was a Sexual Orientation option in the Options menu then you are asking Bioware to write each character twice in two very different ways. These games take long enough to make. Adding all this extra work to satisfy a small % of their fanbase doesn't make sense.

Let's be honest, the fans who want same sex relationships are the minority. Bioware has so many expectations to live up to with the story and gameplay that I highly doubt they have the extra time to devote to writing the characters 2 different ways. Bioware, like all video game companies, will focus on satisfying the majority of their fanbase. I understand your arguments and reasons for wanting it in the game, but realistically it probably won't happen. The majority of ME fans do not want to see it and Bioware will want to satisfy the majority of their fans.

Straight gamers too would play the M/M and F/F. The ones who refuse could simply go on content to chart a M/F-only path using their Shepards. As for us gay gamers? No such luxury of choice. We "can" play M/F but those of us who prefer to be ourselves have no recourse with M/M and so we're left with nothing.

Till BioWare deigns to produce content or issue promises to the contrary, that is where we all stand at.

I agree BioWare isn't going to issue any DLC to help us with this. Nor will they use sexual-preference flags in character-creation, or in early dialogue.

1. DLC Publicity- BioWare won't dare challenge homophobia by including bold human same-sex relationships within a patch or DLC that would be too small to hide such content in among everything else that would otherwise come in a full retail game. Homophobic opinions would decry BioWare for appeasing us instead of devoting attention to slavishly making their existing sex-encounters fully nekkid. Business as usual for BioWare = ignoring and excluding the gays.

2. Flags- No need for them at all, because in actuality BioWare doesn't have to write every character two different ways if sexual preference were to finally become a non-issue. They can just use the existing framework. Gender pronouns are rarely directed at Shepard. Easy to work with what's there, yet even this often generates the same response being used against #1.

Sexual preference doesn't need to be fought over if BioWare's writing were to give the same choices for everyone. It would not cut into replayability because Jennifer Hale and Mark Meer are quite obviously different and so are the character models for their respective Shepards. Play through as a woman or a man who screws his or her way through the galaxy, but without getting hung up on asinine gender roles. Commander Jane Shepard is proof enough that they don't need to rule the day.

[Uszi]

misread the post I was replying to... editing...

In the end, I think that it all comes down to demographics.  Bioware isn't going to make a decision that alienates the majority of players.  And unfortunately, a lot of players might be opposed to the possibility of Shepard being homosexual.

True Tali/Garrus romancers seem to have gotten what they wanted because of forum ****ing.  But my guess is that Bioware used other demographics besides these forums when they made that final decision.

Modifié par Uszi, 21 décembre 2010 - 05:46 .

[Eromenos]

XX55XX wrote...

In my opinion, Shepard's sexual orientation should be designated by the player. Shepard is essentially a blank slate, and the player should feel free
to project whatever interpretations they have of the character onto
him/her.

I agree with this. There should be no concept of sexual orientation at all in these games. It should be about the person. Shepard, Kaidan, Tali, Ashley, Garrus, Liara, whomever the player falls for.

But, in the case of squadmates... I do express some concern that certain people within this lobby are attempting to turn certain characters who have been designated as heterosexual, into bisexual characters out of personal desire. For example, Tali has been designated as a heterosexual female, given that the only way to pursue a romantic relationship with Tali is through a male Shepard.

This would create inconsistencies that I rather not see. Otherwise, I do not have a problem with people wanting homosexual or bisexual characters in the game - so long as their sexuality does not change in between games.

Tali's sexuality already did change in between games. It's not as if only straight gamers who prefer M/F were the only ones to call for intimacy with her. Tali's interactions with Shepard in ME1 were identical regardless if it were John or Jane. She said nothing one way or the other about attraction to anybody. Restricting Tali to being straight in ME2 was an arbitrary appeasement to homophobia because it took choices away from us, rather than including.

Modifié par Eromenos, 21 décembre 2010 - 05:50 .

[Eromenos]

KMYash wrote...

 New to the forum, too many pages to read in a decent amount of time so I read the first few and the last few. I have seem a lot of great arguments and would like to add my two cents WALL OF TEXT of thoughts and desires for more love in ME3

1. As much as I would LOVE some M!Shep/Kaidan I think that the best option for M!Shep may be an alien one. Unless I'm missing something, the romantic/sexual cultures of most aliens have not been really revealed. Not that I want a krogan S/SLI but from what I understand there is a significant difference in the number of females and males. Now one argument I'm expecting is the good old fashion procreation argument. If a species has multiple sexes then they must need them. Well if you look at real life Earth's history and go back enough in European history, there was a time where men saw women as baby making machines and evil. They believed that they needed to procreate with women but believed that romantic/affectionate relationships should be with other men. This isn't trying to go into RL gay history yada yada but I thought it is a good example of how cultural ideas can go around biological ones without destroying the future due to birth rates crashing.

Why not humans? Why must it be an artificially-constructed alien? Just because so far F/F is restricted to interactions with the asari does not mean M/M needs to cave in to homophobia against seeing two muscular human men together.

2. I think a lot of people are afraid of ruining the basic idea of Shepard. I worry a bit too because, in various media, characters that "turn" gay are either (in case of males) softened in personality/looks or (in case of females) hardened. I would love to see a man's man Shepard who is gay. He doesn't need to wear a tutu and use a fairy wand instead of a gun to be gay. In the case of fem!Shep, she is already hard in a way but she doesn't need to go to the country plaid shirts and mullets of over stereotyped media lesbians nor does she have to become a lipstick lesbian. I haven't played much with the Liara storyline but I think they did fine in keeping Shep in character while giving her a homosexual romance. I have enough faith in Bioware to think they could do that for MShep as well.

I agree with you on this one, completely.   Shepard should be able to grow close with same-sex partners while maintaining the same attitudes and mannerisms we already know Shepard by.

3. As many people have mentioned. Not everyone needs to be gay/bisexual/etc to have this certain fan base happy. I'm sure, somewhere out there, there is a M!Shep/Zaeed fan. Now I think we can all agree that Zaeed probably has some Playboy magazines hidden behind the trash compactor and is not about to have some alone time with M!Shep. I don't think anyone is demanding that his character be changed to fit that. But with most media you need to suspend disbelief and all that stuff. People can believe that Tali never acted on her crush in the first game but as a more mature character she does in ME2. Same said with Garrus. Now I'm sure you can do that for Kaidan and MShep. Maybe in ME1 he didn't love/crush/whatever on MShep. Maybe he idolized/admired him as a soldier and that evolved. Making a previous character more open sexuality wise doesn't have to kill the character as they were.

that is enough for my wall of text, no desire to kill anyone with the block XD

That would be an awesome evolution of the John Shepard/Kaidan Alenko relationship. If need be, ME3 producers should borrow the DAO writers to help with weighting some dialogue choices toward a path of romance between these two. Same with Jane Shepard/Ashley Williams.

[KMYash]

Eromenos wrote...


Why not humans? Why must it be an artificially-constructed alien? Just because so far F/F is restricted to interactions with the asari does not mean M/M needs to cave in to homophobia against seeing two muscular human men together.

Still cheering for a MShep/Kaidan but I feel like 'the masses' would take an alien male LI better for the mere fact that it is ALIEN. I think the idea of humanxhuman is too realistic for some of the s/sLI haters. In RL convo's I've had it seems as if the other party can explain away the homosexuality with the, well, alien-ness of the LI. I've had someone tell me LiaraxFemShep wasn't technically a lesbian relationship because, "hey Liara doesn't have a human identifiable sex XDD". Of course my brain exploded upon the absurdity of this statement. (she has boobs yes but IMO the important female aspect is the ability to give birth as asari can do)

If I get some nice marine on marine love/romance/whatever bioware is willing to give me, I'd be delighted.

[Wittand25]

Eromenos wrote...
1. DLC Publicity- BioWare won't dare challenge homophobia by including bold human same-sex relationships within a patch or DLC that would be too small to hide such content in among everything else that would otherwise come in a full retail game. Homophobic opinions would decry BioWare for appeasing us instead of devoting attention to slavishly making their existing sex-encounters fully nekkid. Business as usual for BioWare = ignoring and excluding the gays.

2. Flags- No need for them at all, because in actuality BioWare doesn't have to write every character two different ways if sexual preference were to finally become a non-issue. They can just use the existing framework. Gender pronouns are rarely directed at Shepard. Easy to work with what's there, yet even this often generates the same response being used against #1.

I strongly disagree with you in those two points.
1 DLC that allows s/s romance in ME2wont be made for several reasons but the one you assume is the least important if it is even one. A DLC solely for such a romance would be expensive to make concerning the target audience and frankly offensive to many gays because now we would have to pay extra for something others get for free. Having it as part of an bigger DLC might work, but I doubt that it would happen
2 A s/s romance that only has different pronouns is a cheap work and barely better than no romance at all. If there is a s/s romance it should be reflected by actual dialog like it was the case in DA:O and JE and not just simply replacing every female pronoun with a male one. A relationship between two persons of the same sex does have different mechanics compared to a male/female relationship and this should be addressed. And NPCs should keep their personality including sexual orientation, that means some of them should be straight others bisexual or gay and others maybe even asexual. Making every character bisexual would be a move in the wrong direction for a company like Bioware that is mostly famous for creating interesting NPCs.

[What is this]

You can't make characters who weren't previously gay, gay now.



If you want s/s romance they have to bring in someone new not rehash that kadian secretly was in the closet all along

[didymos1120]

What is this wrote...

You can't make characters who weren't previously gay, gay now.

Which characters are those? And how is that you're certain about that?

[Eromenos]

Wittand25 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
1. DLC Publicity- BioWare won't dare challenge homophobia by including bold human same-sex relationships within a patch or DLC that would be too small to hide such content in among everything else that would otherwise come in a full retail game. Homophobic opinions would decry BioWare for appeasing us instead of devoting attention to slavishly making their existing sex-encounters fully nekkid. Business as usual for BioWare = ignoring and excluding the gays.

2. Flags- No need for them at all, because in actuality BioWare doesn't have to write every character two different ways if sexual preference were to finally become a non-issue. They can just use the existing framework. Gender pronouns are rarely directed at Shepard. Easy to work with what's there, yet even this often generates the same response being used against #1.

I strongly disagree with you in those two points.
1 DLC that allows s/s romance in ME2wont be made for several reasons but the one you assume is the least important if it is even one. A DLC solely for such a romance would be expensive to make concerning the target audience and frankly offensive to many gays because now we would have to pay extra for something others get for free. Having it as part of an bigger DLC might work, but I doubt that it would happen

I make no calls for romance-only DLCs. That "probably" wouldn't even happen with Kaidan or Ashley. This is an action-adventure RPG franchise that includes romances, so I can only envision them being included in the same way that Liara was given her own DLC.

I'm saying BioWare will never introduce human M/M and F/F into a DLC or patch for fear of drawing too many homophobic responses to a package much smaller than a full game. Regardless of the fact that possible continued romance with Liara was a selling-point for her DLC.

Your money-issue doesn't fly in the way that you think. "If" they were to use a DLC or patch to allow us to evolve our relationships with Kaidan or Ashley into same-sex human romance, it would be something that can potentially carry over seamlessly into ME3, the same way that continued M/F romances will. Obviously one of those two marines is going to make it into ME3. So, the real potential money-issue isn't about fictional cost-ineffectiveness in "catering" to us. It's the fact that only either Kaidan or Ashley will be interactable in any one playthrough of the DLC. It can be argued that players who maintain different Shepard careers will be happy to make the most of this, but only time will tell if BioWare welcomes this gamble. And if they do, I'm quite certain that they won't write in those gay-friendly relationship evolutions out of cowardice against homophobia.

BioWare's current and past forays into human M/M and F/F have never been free of insults that give us lesser treatment than they give for M/F. They're not above insulting us, and they would not be above selling any DLC for which we would have to pay extra in order to get what we want. If they include us, it would be in the model I described in the paragraph above. They can give us even that little bit of unequal treatment stacked onto what they've already done, but they're not going to.

2 A s/s romance that only has different pronouns is a cheap work and barely better than no romance at all. If there is a s/s romance it should be reflected by actual dialog like it was the case in DA:O and JE and not just simply replacing every female pronoun with a male one. A relationship between two persons of the same sex does have different mechanics compared to a male/female relationship and this should be addressed. And NPCs should keep their personality including sexual orientation, that means some of them should be straight others bisexual or gay and others maybe even asexual. Making every character bisexual would be a move in the wrong direction for a company like Bioware that is mostly famous for creating interesting NPCs.

I don't know what to tell you. Every voice-acted romance-able squadmate that we've had in BioWare games feels open to me because the voice-actors are directed to make themselves equally appealing for both women and for men. Falls in line with the majority of other characters who don't judge Shepard on the basis of sex. I don't think we should say that Harkin should only be hitting on the wimmin, or that someone who plays Jane Shepard should be looking for that "proof or reinforcement" of being a woman.

Relationship-mechanics? What mechanics? Is that some euphemism for arbitrary and divisive gender-roles?

Hardly every character would be bisexual. Many among the NPC life have zero sexually-charged interactions with us. The ones who do will simply no longer pretend for BioWare's sake that we can't exist.

Think of it this way- none of them label themselves even now, despite what BioWare allows or won't allow in their relationships. Emphasis on what they won't allow.

Modifié par Eromenos, 21 décembre 2010 - 07:09 .

[Wittand25]

Eromenos wrote...

The cost I mentioned is for a DLC that focuses mostly or solely on the aspect of romance. If there is a VS DLC  including the option to start a romance even if you did not have one with the VS in ME1 could be included, but this would increase the problems for imports into ME3 so it is unlikely.

Regarding the different mechanics, you treat another man different than a woman because men and women do have different gender roles (Those should not be discussed here, but they exist). All former m/m romances provided by Bioware did address this, because both men were much more flirty during a romance with a female PC and had lines much better suited for their m/m romance path while romancing a male PC. That did not only cover what they said to the PC but also how they talked about the PC with other NPCs (Zevran praises a female wardens eyes, but a male wardens hands in a banter with Morrigan, his banter with Shale changes ...).

Not all romance-able NPCs should be open to all PCs, because that would decrease their character. In fact I would wish more restrictions to LIs, that is to say some should only be romance-able by a female PC, others by a male, others again by both, some only by paragons while others again should not be interested in Sheppard unless Sheppard has enough renegade points and so on. I found it ridiculous how all the females(males) fell for a male(female) Sheppard no matter his decisions.

[Eromenos]

Wittand25 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

The cost I mentioned is for a DLC that focuses mostly or solely on the aspect of romance. If there is a VS DLC  including the option to start a romance even if you did not have one with the VS in ME1 could be included, but this would increase the problems for imports into ME3 so it is unlikely.

Why would there be problems for importing into ME3? If John and Kaidan consummate their UST for each other in a DLC, their relationship status can carry over into ME3. Plenty of things were imported over from ME1 into ME2. Excepting Conrad Verner, they were all bug-free. ME3 is going to take the decisions made from both its predecessors, with DLC content being part of their whole. Witness the consequences of "Bring Down the Sky" included in ME2. If we're allowed to develop something new with Kaidan or Ashley that would become part of our ME3.

Regarding the different mechanics, you treat another man different than a woman because men and women do have different gender roles (Those should not be discussed here, but they exist). All former m/m romances provided by Bioware did address this, because both men were much more flirty during a romance with a female PC and had lines much better suited for their m/m romance path while romancing a male PC. That did not only cover what they said to the PC but also how they talked about the PC with other NPCs (Zevran praises a female wardens eyes, but a male wardens hands in a banter with Morrigan, his banter with Shale changes ...).

I'm not looking for blatant opinions about my masculinity or femininty from guys I'm interested in. Not saying they're dealbreakers. I wouldn't mind if Kaidan comments out of love and affection, but I'm also not hung up on it. If he calls us "gorgeous" I'd see nothing wrong because *cough* I/Shepard happen to be. I'd like "handsome" too but I don't feel any less masculine when another man is practically worshipping me. Still, if distinctions need to be made then they wouldn't be hard to implement. I think the examples you mention are in the absolute minority of interactions, a handful of lines? Then they're similar to the few lines that specifically distinguish Shepard/Warden as male or female. BioWare knows how to, but they just refuse to include us. Either way that we prefer would work, but neither one is acceptable in face of homophobia.

Not all romance-able NPCs should be open to all PCs, because that would decrease their character. In fact I would wish more restrictions to LIs, that is to say some should only be romance-able by a female PC, others by a male, others again by both, some only by paragons while others again should not be interested in Sheppard unless Shepard has enough renegade points and so on. I found it ridiculous how all the females(males) fell for a male(female) Sheppard no matter his decisions.

I've only said that sex/gender shouldn't be the deciding factor that allows BioWare to exclude us. Our choices throughout the game should of course have consequences on the way they see us.

Yeah, ME2 did focus too heavily on quantity of bewbiez.

Modifié par Eromenos, 21 décembre 2010 - 07:42 .