9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Wittand25]

Khem wrote...

Is the majority opinion that a same sex love interest should be a squad member?

It should feel equal to the the opposite love interest. In ME2 the Kelly fling felt not equal to the full romances.
 For me a non party NPC always feels inferior to party NPCs so I would prefer a s/s romance with a squad-member. Though I would not mind if the number of full romances get reduced to one bisexual female and one bisexual male (hopefully human) and some not fully counting Kelly flings for all orientations to add variety.

[yesikareyes]

Just curious, if Bioware to consent in allowing same sex relationships in ME3. How would that be possible? Shepard's history and background was somehow defined already in past games. It's not like he can just walk up to Thane and be flirty just like that.



I think if Bioware didn't give us the option to make same sex possible, maybe that's the way they really wanted Shepard to be. I don't want a fight, just expressing my thoughts.

[didymos1120]

yesikareyes wrote...

Just curious, if Bioware to consent in allowing same sex relationships in ME3. How would that be possible? Shepard's history and background was somehow defined already in past games. It's not like he can just walk up to Thane and be flirty just like that.

Well, why not?  Let's look at this another way: say hypothetically that Miranda is in ME3 and newly-created Shepards have the option to initiate a romance with her.  Where's the problem, exactly? Should that not be allowed just because Shep could have started that romance in ME2?  And this is effectively what happened with Tali and Garrus: they just suddenly became romance options in ME2, and the writers found ways to handle the "problem" of "Well, why now and not then?"

[yesikareyes]

didymos1120 wrote...

Well, why not?  Let's look at this another way: say hypothetically that Miranda is in ME3 and newly-created Shepards have the option to initiate a romance with her.  Where's the problem, exactly? Should that not be allowed just because Shep could have started that romance in ME2?  And this is effectively what happened with Tali and Garrus: they just suddenly became romance options in ME2, and the writers found ways to handle the "problem" of "Well, why now and not then?"

Hmm, I accept your explanation however if Bioware will consent to this they better make the dialogue more diverse and well thought of to properly give players the option to deviate different kinds of Shepard. As long as, this is done in a way that doesn't make Shepard decide he's gay impulsively I'm supporting this cause. Character development is key.

[ElitePinecone]

yesikareyes wrote...

Just curious, if Bioware to consent in allowing same sex relationships in ME3. How would that be possible? Shepard's history and background was somehow defined already in past games. It's not like he can just walk up to Thane and be flirty just like that.

I think if Bioware didn't give us the option to make same sex possible, maybe that's the way they really wanted Shepard to be. I don't want a fight, just expressing my thoughts.

'Shepard' is mostly - for lack of a better word - a blank canvas, character-wise. Gender, back-story, morality, personality, fighting style and so on can be customised by the player. Why not sexuality? 

With regards to previous games, it is possible (as many have done) to reject romances entirely in both games, even when they're offered. This is consistent with that particular Shepard being attracted to the same sex (of course, some role play Shepard as a professional soldier with no time for romance - as I recall, there are dialogue choices to that effect). Either way, the fact that options exist for heterosexual romance does not make Shepard heterosexual - in exactly the same way as having same-sex romance options does not make Shepard homosexual. 

You're absolutely correct that it would be a little odd to walk up to Thane in ME3 and instigate a romance (even assuming they carry over squadmates, which I doubt) - but wasn't the same thing done with Garrus and Tali? They were strictly allies in the first game - with no hint of an attraction - and fully-fledged romance options for ME2. There's a quote from Casey Hudson a few months ago - " ... one of the big ones was Garrus, people just loved Garrus and there was a love of interest in having a romance with Garrus. So we thought, "Let's try this in Mass Effect 2." If people want to have a romance with this bird-like guy with an exoskeleton, then okay." - which, apart from being bizarre (we can have romances with "this bird-like guy with an exoskeleton", but not with a human of the same gender) shows that character interactions definitely aren't set in stone. 

I think a more likely method to implement s/s romances - were it ever considered seriously - would be in the form of new characters, or perhaps minor characters from previous games that play a larger role in ME3. I don't think we'll get a situation where Shepard can proposition Thane, or Garrus, which might allay some fears. That being said, let me emphasize that Shepard's character is implicitly not defined - engaging in a same-sex relationship in ME3 would not go against any actions in previous games (especially if Shepard never pursued a romance) and would not, in all likelihood, implode the universe with its contradictions. 

Edit: Fixing BBCode.

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 25 janvier 2011 - 11:38 .

[yesikareyes]

Thanks for the insight ElitePinecone. Yes I do agree with it being implemented on new characters or minor ones because if they did it with a major character in ME 3 it would come as a surprise because there was no dialogue or suggestion about Thane, Garrus or Jacob considering a homosexual relationship unless they can make it fit in the story with brilliant script writing.



At first, I was not comfortable with idea and the only reason I had was 'it didn't feel right' but then I read one post here in this thread that said, 'just because you have the option to be homosexual, that doesn't mean you have to be' and this altered my point of view. Everyone has their own version of Shepard, it's wrong to hate on others just because of how they choose to portray him/her.

[catabuca]

yesikareyes wrote...

Thanks for the insight ElitePinecone. Yes I do agree with it being implemented on new characters or minor ones because if they did it with a major character in ME 3 it would come as a surprise because there was no dialogue or suggestion about Thane, Garrus or Jacob considering a homosexual relationship unless they can make it fit in the story with brilliant script writing.

At first, I was not comfortable with idea and the only reason I had was 'it didn't feel right' but then I read one post here in this thread that said, 'just because you have the option to be homosexual, that doesn't mean you have to be' and this altered my point of view. Everyone has their own version of Shepard, it's wrong to hate on others just because of how they choose to portray him/her.

The part I bolded is one of the most sensible approaches we see on this thread. I've been dipping in and out of the thread since it began (and its previous incarnations), and time and time again I scratch my head at just why exactly one player in, say, London, would care whether another player in Los Angeles, for example, chose an option for their male Shepard to initiate a romance with Kaidan (I use Kaidan as an example because he is my preferred m/m romance option). This player in London need never choose that option if they do not want to.

Complaining that a s/s romance option exists for other players when you don't intend to choose that option is about as silly as complaining that there are paragon interrupts in ME2 when you only ever plan on choosing renegade interrupts. Your Shepard can remain as renegade (or straight) as you choose, but to deny another player the choice for their Shepard to be a paragon (or gay) is utterly ridiculous, and frankly bizarre.

So I take heart from your comments, that you thought about it, and that you took the time to understand other people's points of view. Thank you <3

[Uszi]

Jibbed34 wrote...

There should be options available for gay relationships with ALL squadmates, I don't see why not.
I'm
personally straight, and as long as these options only become available
if you intentionally pursue them, then I'm fine with them being in the
game.

I think it'd be kind of goofy though.  Again, from a metagaming perspective, maybe it makes sense.  But I've always argued for some sort of balanace between realism and  metagaming that remains fun to play and is still focused on a good experience...

And recruiting the biggest bunch of badass bisexuals in the galaxy is a little immersion breaking for me.

Not that I would be pissed off or anything, but imho, better to add a couple of SSLI's that have a clear backstory explanation for playing both sides of the field.

Khem wrote...

Is the majority opinion that a same sex love interest should be a squad member?

Within this thread, yes, seemingly.
Within the community at large:  unknown.

Joker's orientation has not been even hinted at, and his self-confidence issues would be a good explanation for earlier silence. You know, the selflessly (and, in his mind, hopelessly) in love kind of person who spent the last two years preparing for Shepards uncertain return... Cute, smart, able and voiced by Seth Green. :-)

It's fairly obvious after ME2 that Joker is robosexual.

Modifié par Uszi, 25 janvier 2011 - 06:53 .

[Uszi]

ElitePinecone wrote...


I think a more likely method to implement s/s romances - were it ever considered seriously - would be in the form of new characters, or perhaps minor characters from previous games that play a larger role in ME3. I don't think we'll get a situation where Shepard can proposition Thane, or Garrus, which might allay some fears. That being said, let me emphasize that Shepard's character is implicitly not defined - engaging in a same-sex relationship in ME3 would not go against any actions in previous games (especially if Shepard never pursued a romance) and would not, in all likelihood, implode the universe with its contradictions. 

Also, this.

[yesikareyes]

catabuca wrote...

The part I bolded is one of the most sensible approaches we see on this thread. I've been dipping in and out of the thread since it began (and its previous incarnations), and time and time again I scratch my head at just why exactly one player in, say, London, would care whether another player in Los Angeles, for example, chose an option for their male Shepard to initiate a romance with Kaidan (I use Kaidan as an example because he is my preferred m/m romance option). This player in London need never choose that option if they do not want to.

Complaining that a s/s romance option exists for other players when you don't intend to choose that option is about as silly as complaining that there are paragon interrupts in ME2 when you only ever plan on choosing renegade interrupts. Your Shepard can remain as renegade (or straight) as you choose, but to deny another player the choice for their Shepard to be a paragon (or gay) is utterly ridiculous, and frankly bizarre.

So I take heart from your comments, that you thought about it, and that you took the time to understand other people's points of view. Thank you <3

No problem, just wanted to share some insight. I really do hope Bioware takes a look at this thread and possibly discuss this option for the fans. 

Another turning point for me was seeing Miranda and femshep in the love scene together that was posted in youtube because of the 'save edit' feature. My world was shattered, screaming the cliche 'NOOOO!' in the background but then I said to myself, 'wait, why am I watching it if I don't like it?' =))

[shoggoth1890]

Sorry, not read all 150 pages, so this may have been suggested. Even though I am opposed to "sweeping homosexuals under the rug", it could be a toggle-able item in the options menu. Default set to only permit options for straight relationships. Of course they'd have to think of a less "immature joke" inducing title for it than the "gay switch". My personal opinion is that it should be in the game without needing to hide it though.

The only problem I have is actually a problem with the dialogue mechanics in general: you don't say what you choose, only a similar idea to what you choose. The subtext in the chosen text is often hard to determine and you can often come off saying something completely out of character with what you were aiming for. I don't care if I accidentally make Shep flirt with the same gender, but I have a tendency to reload if what is said is not in line with what I would have said.

[MisterDyslexo]

^There have always been problems with communication in RPGs, however Bioware has done well at resolving most of them. For example,I will take a line from Mass Effect 1. After completing the consort side-quest, she gives you a pendant. You can say "A pendant?". Now normally this could've been read numerous different ways, as any other options. I'll highlight the idea in this seinfeld clip (sorry I'm stupid and don't know how to embed)



Bioware has the dialogue wheel set up in a way that if you hover over an aggressive response, Shepard's face will be angry. If a kind response, its be something friendly. Thats just one fairly simple, but ingenious, way. Bioware is excellent at minimizing miscommunication in their games, but that simple facial expression and some vague phrase may not catch everybody, and won't stop most flirt options from being picked by people who lack understanding of subtlety (no offense to anybody who has trouble understanding it, not calling you unintelligent by any means). To solve this, two ideas which previously emerged on this thread might be implemented. One is that you can have coloured dialogue for flirt options. We already have it for paragon and renegade. Make it a colour for that when flirting. Or do what their new title Dragon Age 2 is doing, and have symbols. A response will have a symbol which should be easily be interpreted as meaning on thing or another. A fist for violence, a quill for peace/negotiation, or a heart for flirtation. I imagine that everybody would benefit from that in general. Lots of people ninjamance certain characters, but with a big red flag going up, or in this case, a certain coloured line of dialogue or symbol, it should be fairly that said line involves romance. Both of these changes, if implemented, will benefit almost everybody who plays the game, whether romance (as would help this cause) or otherwise.


Edit: @ElitePinecone You stole my sig bar

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 26 janvier 2011 - 07:21 .

[ElitePinecone]

shoggoth1890 wrote...
The only problem I have is actually a problem with the dialogue mechanics in general: you don't say what you choose, only a similar idea to what you choose. The subtext in the chosen text is often hard to determine and you can often come off saying something completely out of character with what you were aiming for. I don't care if I accidentally make Shep flirt with the same gender, but I have a tendency to reload if what is said is not in line with what I would have said.

This is an issue, yeah. 

Dragon Age 2 is using a (new) similar dialogue-wheel system to the Mass Effect series, allowing the player to choose from a few options when selecting their response. It has a new feature, though, in the form of a small picture icon that appears for each option that hints at the 'subtext' or 'undertone' of what the character is saying - hopefully making it easier for the player to gauge what  their response will do before they say it. 

Here's a picture I found (notice the clenched fist icon, representing a 'hostile' response - there are apparently many more icons):



If a similar system was implemented for Mass Effect 3, it would definitely make conversations less confusing. Of course it would be great for allowing players to avoid unwanted romances (don't choose the option with the giant love heart symbol) but more generally I think it will lessen the disconnect between the dialogue on the screen and what comes out of Shepard's mouth. It can be really hard to tell sarcasm or veiled threats, for example.

Edit: Conveniently, this also works as a reply to MisterDyslexo. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 26 janvier 2011 - 07:20 .

[shoggoth1890]

I also mean things like: you select a simple "no". Shep then goes off on some diatribe completely unrelated to your reasoning for choosing "no".

[ElitePinecone]

@MisterDyslexo - Wow, that's a little freaky Notice I have an extra space in between Pacifen and the dash! Great minds obviously think alike... I don't remember copying you when I added that quote in



@shoggoth1890 - That too is a problem; I think it's an almost unavoidable symptom of having voiced dialogue. To write down the entire sentences of Shepard's conversation would look a little clumsy on the screen (when the emphasis is on cinematic dialogue and everything looking 'cool'). It works fine with DAO where there's no player voice, but it might be difficult to adjust that system to make everybody happy. In any event, hopefully the DA2 changes to the system make it easier to work out what the dialogue's intent is before the player selects it. That should assuage some concerns some people have with the introduction of same-sex romances.

[Dexi]

One word for this thread... NO!



Making male Shepard able to romance Garrus, Thane, whatever, would ruin Garrus and Thane and whatever.



They are BAD ASS. Gays may be everything but NOT bad ass.



Huge NO for gay relationships... Shepard is a tough Alliance elite, not a **** with pink underwear...









Please people, understand! Making Shepard gay/bisexual would ruin the game for most of us who are straight... Just by making him able to romance other males, which implies Shepard feeling attracted to males, ruins the character for most of us.





There are tons of other games in which you can be gay, go play those, but don't ruin Shepard...





It kinda goes the same for female relationships... Liara being an exception, because asari are special ( not only in the monogendered way, but also, different people view the same asari in different ways, won't say more or where you find this out because of "NO SPOILER").





Again, don't ruin the game for 70% ( or whatever, the majority, in any case) of us who are straight.

[Ryzaki]

...



Read the OP. Please.



Also: Shepard can already be gay or bisexual. I suppose your game is ruined then.

[Selenora]

Dexi wrote...

Huge NO for gay relationships... Shepard is a tough Alliance elite, not a **** with pink underwear...

I think you have a weird idea about gays but nevermind....

[Dexi]

Ryzaki wrote...
 Shepard can already be gay or bisexual.

How? 

[ElitePinecone]

Dexi wrote...
snip

A few things:

We aren't suggesting that Garrus. Thane, or any other of your fictional idols be 'made teh gay'. If Bioware wants to do that, it's their decision. We're only suggesting that the game would be improved by having some more romance options. Whatever form these take - if any - is up to Bioware. It doesn't make much sense, in my opinion, to go back and make characters like Thane or Garrus romancable - but I can't speak for everyone here. 

I know you aren't trying to be deliberately offensive, but yes, gays and lesbians can be badass. I don't want ot get off-topic but do a Google search for some soldiers and you'll see what I mean. Being gay doesn't mean pink underwear and glitter - this is a stereotype.

I'd also like to know how opening up romance options for Shepard would ruin the game for anyone but those who have a problem with it. Based on the responses we've had to this thread and some polls (see here, here and especially here) I don't think the support for same-sex romances is as low as you think. Plenty of people who aren't gay themselves have expressed an interest in opening up more choices for romance and storytelling, if it's done well. 

They are, after all, an option. You have the right - even the privilege - of turning it down. Your Shepard can be as straight as an arrow, if you want.

Edit: Fixing up a sentence. 

Edit 2: Also, here has some more options so we can see people's opinions

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:05 .

[Dexi]

Ok, do it however you want, I don't really care...

Just don't make guy crewmembers hit at my Shepard.

Modifié par Dexi, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:25 .

[didymos1120]

Dexi wrote...

Making Shepard gay/bisexual would ruin the game for most of us who are straight...

Speak for yourself. I know I'm not the only straight ME fan who thinks that's just so much nonsense, and unless you've personally gathered poll data from the majority of straight fans, you're just making things up.

[lawp79]

Snip

Modifié par lawp79, 26 janvier 2011 - 11:32 .

[Isaidlunch]

Dexi wrote...

Ok, do it however you want, I don't really care...

Just don't make guy crewmembers hit at my Shepard.

Fair enough, I'd rather that Bioware doesn't push it on anyone who's uncomfortable with it.

[STG]

I have a simple view on this subject.



New characters that are gay? No prob. Turning Jacob and Miranda gay because your Shepard is one? We have a prob.



I know. Your Shepard is your story and all that jazz. Guess what? My life is my story, and yet I can't go around turning straight people gay.

Character consistency: (noun) in a novel, the keeping of character descriptions, mannerisms, backgrounds, skills and abilities consistent throughout the whole