9243 réponses à ce sujet

[2kgnsiika]

Sabariel wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

shoggoth1890 wrote...

Jray, you appear to be a bit more rational, do you know just what the instance in the comic of which they speak is? Is it just about his comment after his "mind meld" with Liara?

This is asked, not is support of you per se Ryzaki, but because I have no idea what you guys are referencing, and actually stating what it is in no unclear terms will help your cases.

There were two main things in relation to Liara.  ONe was that in the comic's narration SHepard called Liara "beautiful" when describing her.  THe other was that he said he "enjoyed" the mind meld. 

Both could potentially lead one to the conclusion that Shep is default straight, but I believe this is false.

Especially since Lady Shepard says the exact same things about Liara

We're talking about male Shepard here. FemShep can obviously swing both ways.

[JrayM16]

Ryzaki wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...
The Citadel thing, fine.  THe conduit?  No, not necessary as long as it is not used as a plot device again, which is unlikely as the Reapers are about to get the the galaxy anyway.

Ah true the Conduit probably will be ignored and never mentioned again. Probably like Shep's visions. <_<

Oh why did you remind me.

The reapers are going to drive to earth. That'll be fun.

The only thing Shepard did was buy them a couple of years.

Well, considering that the entire glactic government and infrastructure would have been destroyed right then and there if not for Shepard makes it still pretty important.

[JrayM16]

2kgnsiika wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

shoggoth1890 wrote...

Jray, you appear to be a bit more rational, do you know just what the instance in the comic of which they speak is? Is it just about his comment after his "mind meld" with Liara?

This is asked, not is support of you per se Ryzaki, but because I have no idea what you guys are referencing, and actually stating what it is in no unclear terms will help your cases.

There were two main things in relation to Liara.  ONe was that in the comic's narration SHepard called Liara "beautiful" when describing her.  THe other was that he said he "enjoyed" the mind meld. 

Both could potentially lead one to the conclusion that Shep is default straight, but I believe this is false.

Especially since Lady Shepard says the exact same things about Liara

We're talking about male Shepard here. FemShep can obviously swing both ways.

But since MShep and FemShep are opposite gender analogues of eachother, it should stand to reason that both could potentially be bi.  Gender and hence straight romance options are all that differ for the two Sheps.  I think the assertion that MShep is cannonically straight while FemShep is cannonically bi given the circumstances of the games roleplaying system is faulty.

[Ryzaki]

JrayM16 wrote...


Well, considering that the entire glactic government and infrastructure would have been destroyed right then and there if not for Shepard makes it still pretty important.

True.

I'm so sick of this lesbiansim is A-OK but gay males! OH NO! Bs from Mass Effect. 

Really I've gotten to the point where I'm disgusted.

And just think. If those stupid Asari didn't exist I would be perfectly fine with no m/m in ME. (They'd be no F/F after all). And Kelly...well she can jump off a balcony.

Seriously though the double stanards here are just..sickening.

Bleh. My Shep has no romanctic inclinations towards Liara and told her so in ME1.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 janvier 2011 - 12:12 .

[JrayM16]

Ryzaki wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...


Well, considering that the entire glactic government and infrastructure would have been destroyed right then and there if not for Shepard makes it still pretty important.

True.

I'm so sick of this lesbiansim is A-OK but gay males! OH NO! Bs from Mass Effect. 

Really I've gotten to the point where I'm disgusted.

And just think. If those stupid Asari didn't exist I would be perfectly fine with no m/m in ME. (They'd be no F/F after all). And Kelly...well she can jump off a balcony.

Seriously though the double stanards here are just..sickening.

I would agree that this is a disapointing predicament in pop culture.  I've gotten used to it on the whole though.  And atleast there was Zevran, that was pretty good.

[shoggoth1890]

Thanks Jray. It seems the confusion is in the assumption that sexuality is absolutely polar, and that anything that compliments or expresses positive reaction is interpreted as sole preference.

It is not too uncommon, for example, for a woman to comment on another woman as being beautiful, or to enjoy activities with other women. If each woman that ever expressed these sentiments were lesbians, as the logic being applied would dictate, we men would have rather slim pickins.

[JrayM16]

shoggoth1890 wrote...

Thanks Jray. It seems the confusion is in the assumption that sexuality is absolutely polar, and that anything that compliments or expresses positive reaction is interpreted as sole preference.
It is not too uncommon, for example, for a woman to comment on another woman as being beautiful, or to enjoy activities with other women. If each woman that ever expressed these sentiments were lesbians, as the logic being applied would dictate, we men would have rather slim pickins.

Exactly my point.

[Ryzaki]

shoggoth1890 wrote...

Thanks Jray. It seems the confusion is in the assumption that sexuality is absolutely polar, and that anything that compliments or expresses positive reaction is interpreted as sole preference.
It is not too uncommon, for example, for a woman to comment on another woman as being beautiful, or to enjoy activities with other women. If each woman that ever expressed these sentiments were lesbians, as the logic being applied would dictate, we men would have rather slim pickins.

True.

Yes inded you would. XD

Though really the only thing that bothers me is the whole one-sideness of the comic. Liara gets the most flattering description, Liara gets a close-up during the choose your LI frame.

It's just stinks of author favoritism and that in turn makes me repulsed by her character even more than I originally was. The fact that this happens with a female Shepard makes the whole "Asari aren't women! Shepard's straight!" nonsense look even worse.

Its bad enough I don't like the character. The devs don't need to shove the fact that they like her down my throat.

JrayM16 wrote...

I would agree that this is a disapointing
predicament in pop culture.  I've gotten used to it on the whole
though.  And atleast there was Zevran, that was pretty good.

Gah. I don't want to get used to something like this.

...I'm not even going into all the things I hated about Zevran.

Though yes it was fair. I may have wanted to shoot the character in the face but yes it was nice to be able to play a gay Warden in a relationship if I wanted to. (And yay I can do the same with Dude Hawke!)

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 janvier 2011 - 12:16 .

[JrayM16]

Ryzaki wrote...

shoggoth1890 wrote...

Thanks Jray. It seems the confusion is in the assumption that sexuality is absolutely polar, and that anything that compliments or expresses positive reaction is interpreted as sole preference.
It is not too uncommon, for example, for a woman to comment on another woman as being beautiful, or to enjoy activities with other women. If each woman that ever expressed these sentiments were lesbians, as the logic being applied would dictate, we men would have rather slim pickins.

True.

Yes inded you would. XD

Though really the only thing that bothers me is the whole one-sideness of the comic. Liara gets the most flattering description, Liara gets a close-up during the choose your LI frame.

It's just stinks of author favoritism and that in turn makes me repulsed by her character even more than I originally was.

Its bad enough I don't like the character. The devs don't need to shove the fact that they like her down my throat.

Eh, I can understand writer favoritism, being one myself.  There's also the fact that Liara has the most vocal fanbase on the forums.

[2kgnsiika]

Ryzaki wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...


Well, considering that the entire glactic government and infrastructure would have been destroyed right then and there if not for Shepard makes it still pretty important.

True.

I'm so sick of this lesbiansim is A-OK but gay males! OH NO! Bs from Mass Effect. 

Really I've gotten to the point where I'm disgusted.

And just think. If those stupid Asari didn't exist I would be perfectly fine with no m/m in ME. (They'd be no F/F after all). And Kelly...well she can jump off a balcony.

Seriously though the double stanards here are just..sickening.

Bleh. My Shep has no romanctic inclinations towards Liara and told her so in ME1.

If I had to guess, I think the lack of M/M romance might have to do with Mark Meer. Have you listened to those unused audio files about the male Shep/Kaidan romance? I think those are just about the most awkward lines ever delivered by Meer. This might imply that BW was planning on having an M/M romance, but Meer just refused or couldn't deliver the lines in a desirable way and they didn't want to include it.

[2kgnsiika]

JrayM16 wrote...
There's also the fact that Liara has the most vocal fanbase on the forums.

And for a reason, I'd say!

[JrayM16]

2kgnsiika wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...


Well, considering that the entire glactic government and infrastructure would have been destroyed right then and there if not for Shepard makes it still pretty important.

True.

I'm so sick of this lesbiansim is A-OK but gay males! OH NO! Bs from Mass Effect. 

Really I've gotten to the point where I'm disgusted.

And just think. If those stupid Asari didn't exist I would be perfectly fine with no m/m in ME. (They'd be no F/F after all). And Kelly...well she can jump off a balcony.

Seriously though the double stanards here are just..sickening.

Bleh. My Shep has no romanctic inclinations towards Liara and told her so in ME1.

If I had to guess, I think the lack of M/M romance might have to do with Mark Meer. Have you listened to those unused audio files about the male Shep/Kaidan romance? I think those are just about the most awkward lines ever delivered by Meer. This might imply that BW was planning on having an M/M romance, but Meer just refused or couldn't deliver the lines in a desirable way and they didn't want to include it.

I would certainly hope this is not the case but I suppose you might be right.

[Ryzaki]

JrayM16 wrote...
Eh, I can understand writer favoritism, being one myself.  There's also the fact that Liara has the most vocal fanbase on the forums.

I think you mixed up names right there. Tali has the most vocal fanbase.

Liara's close but no cigar.

And yeah I understand favoritism. But there's a limit. You shouldn't shove your favorite character in everyone's face or railroad Shep into treating her like she's his/her bestest friend ever even when he/she expressed distaste or disgust for her in the first game.

[Ryzaki]

2kgnsiika wrote...

If I had to guess, I think the lack of M/M romance might have to do with Mark Meer. Have you listened to those unused audio files about the male Shep/Kaidan romance? I think those are just about the most awkward lines ever delivered by Meer. This might imply that BW was planning on having an M/M romance, but Meer just refused or couldn't deliver the lines in a desirable way and they didn't want to include it.

Meer dresses in drag. He plays a woman.

I don't think embarassement from the lines were the problem.

He can play a woman so I doubt it was the whole flirting with a man thing.

Plus: Alot of Meers dialogue (particularly romance dialogue) was stilted and awkward. The romance dialogue with Kaidan wasn't different in that effect.

And hell I listened to the dialogue to. It (to me) sounded better than the Liara romance.

That said...it wasn't that great.

That said I preferred it over Hale.

Kind of like choosing to get poked in the eye with a knife or a needle. Both are unpleasant but one might just hurt a little less.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 janvier 2011 - 12:24 .

[JrayM16]

2kgnsiika wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...
There's also the fact that Liara has the most vocal fanbase on the forums.

And for a reason, I'd say!

I just flashbacked to a flamewar with this one particular Liara fan.  Dinkamus_Littlelog.  He and I would go at it pretty much every day about something.  Though I haven't seen him in months and his profile is blocked now.  I think he quit the forums after his disapointment with ME2.  Not sure why I brought this up.

[shoggoth1890]

And the fact that the comic can't have been expected to have the sheer range of the actual game, so all aspects are going to be a bit more focused in a particular direction.

[Sabariel]

Ryzaki wrote...

2kgnsiika wrote...

If I had to guess, I think the lack of M/M romance might have to do with Mark Meer. Have you listened to those unused audio files about the male Shep/Kaidan romance? I think those are just about the most awkward lines ever delivered by Meer. This might imply that BW was planning on having an M/M romance, but Meer just refused or couldn't deliver the lines in a desirable way and they didn't want to include it.

Meer dresses in drag. He plays a woman.

I don't think embarassement from the lines were the problem.

He can play a woman so I doubt it was the whole flirting with a man thing.

Plus: Alot of Meers dialogue was stilted and awkward. The romance dialogue wasn't different in that effect.

Totally agree. I had to delete my Man Shepard as his deadpan awkwardness drove me insane

[2kgnsiika]

JrayM16 wrote...

2kgnsiika wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...


Well, considering that the entire glactic government and infrastructure would have been destroyed right then and there if not for Shepard makes it still pretty important.

True.

I'm so sick of this lesbiansim is A-OK but gay males! OH NO! Bs from Mass Effect. 

Really I've gotten to the point where I'm disgusted.

And just think. If those stupid Asari didn't exist I would be perfectly fine with no m/m in ME. (They'd be no F/F after all). And Kelly...well she can jump off a balcony.

Seriously though the double stanards here are just..sickening.

Bleh. My Shep has no romanctic inclinations towards Liara and told her so in ME1.

If I had to guess, I think the lack of M/M romance might have to do with Mark Meer. Have you listened to those unused audio files about the male Shep/Kaidan romance? I think those are just about the most awkward lines ever delivered by Meer. This might imply that BW was planning on having an M/M romance, but Meer just refused or couldn't deliver the lines in a desirable way and they didn't want to include it.

I would certainly hope this is not the case but I suppose you might be right.

I, on the other hand, completely understand if it had to do with Meer's reluctance. When he agreed to do Shepard's voice, they probably didn't mention to him right away that he would be doing romance dialogue with Raphael Sbarge. It's quite possible that as he did hundreds of lines for Shepard, he felt like he knew who this character was and what were the definining limits of his personality. And when he was told about the Kaidan romance, he might have felt like this is not the man Shepard is.

Well, this is all just wild speculation, but I've always thought it was Meer who sabotaged that particular feature in the game.

[Ryzaki]

Sabariel wrote...
Totally agree. I had to delete my Man Shepard as his deadpan awkwardness drove me insane

Actually I found it adorable. Painful at times but adorable at others.

Particularly when listening to the romance the "And now we save the galaxy!" It was cheesy, narmy as hell and I laughed. But that was the intentionof the line. It was supposed to be funny.

The only dialogue lines of Shep's I ever found bad bad was when he was comforting Talitha. That was awkard and stitled. That should've been redone.

[2kgnsiika]

JrayM16 wrote...

2kgnsiika wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...
There's also the fact that Liara has the most vocal fanbase on the forums.

And for a reason, I'd say!

I just flashbacked to a flamewar with this one particular Liara fan.  Dinkamus_Littlelog.  He and I would go at it pretty much every day about something.  Though I haven't seen him in months and his profile is blocked now.  I think he quit the forums after his disapointment with ME2.  Not sure why I brought this up.

Yeah, obsessive fans can be a pain.. hehe... (it's 2:25 AM where I am, and I have to attend a lecture tomorrow morning, but here I am nitpicking over the tiniest details in Mass Effect.) <_<

[JrayM16]

2kgnsiika wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

2kgnsiika wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...


Well, considering that the entire glactic government and infrastructure would have been destroyed right then and there if not for Shepard makes it still pretty important.

True.

I'm so sick of this lesbiansim is A-OK but gay males! OH NO! Bs from Mass Effect. 

Really I've gotten to the point where I'm disgusted.

And just think. If those stupid Asari didn't exist I would be perfectly fine with no m/m in ME. (They'd be no F/F after all). And Kelly...well she can jump off a balcony.

Seriously though the double stanards here are just..sickening.

Bleh. My Shep has no romanctic inclinations towards Liara and told her so in ME1.

If I had to guess, I think the lack of M/M romance might have to do with Mark Meer. Have you listened to those unused audio files about the male Shep/Kaidan romance? I think those are just about the most awkward lines ever delivered by Meer. This might imply that BW was planning on having an M/M romance, but Meer just refused or couldn't deliver the lines in a desirable way and they didn't want to include it.

I would certainly hope this is not the case but I suppose you might be right.

I, on the other hand, completely understand if it had to do with Meer's reluctance. When he agreed to do Shepard's voice, they probably didn't mention to him right away that he would be doing romance dialogue with Raphael Sbarge. It's quite possible that as he did hundreds of lines for Shepard, he felt like he knew who this character was and what were the definining limits of his personality. And when he was told about the Kaidan romance, he might have felt like this is not the man Shepard is.

Well, this is all just wild speculation, but I've always thought it was Meer who sabotaged that particular feature in the game.

On second thought, this is probably false, as most videogame voice actors are struggling and take whatever jobs they can get.  Since this was a big job that I assumed payed well and guaranteed three games worth of work, there's no way Meer would refuse to do anything if he thought he might lose the job.

[JrayM16]

2kgnsiika wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

2kgnsiika wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...
There's also the fact that Liara has the most vocal fanbase on the forums.

And for a reason, I'd say!

I just flashbacked to a flamewar with this one particular Liara fan.  Dinkamus_Littlelog.  He and I would go at it pretty much every day about something.  Though I haven't seen him in months and his profile is blocked now.  I think he quit the forums after his disapointment with ME2.  Not sure why I brought this up.

Yeah, obsessive fans can be a pain.. hehe... (it's 2:25 AM where I am, and I have to attend a lecture tomorrow morning, but here I am nitpicking over the tiniest details in Mass Effect.) <_<

I have to write a paper that's due tommorow.  You're never alone huh?

[2kgnsiika]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sabariel wrote...
Totally agree. I had to delete my Man Shepard as his deadpan awkwardness drove me insane

Actually I found it adorable. Painful at times but adorable at others.

Particularly when listening to the romance the "And now we save the galaxy!" It was cheesy, narmy as hell and I laughed. But that was the intentionof the line. It was supposed to be funny.

The only dialogue lines of Shep's I ever found bad bad was when he was comforting Talitha. That was awkard and stitled. That should've been redone.

But I think Meer has gotten a lot better at it though. LotSB and Genesis are great examples of him displaying emotion in a non-creepy way.

Now, if they could only get rid of that horrible rapeface Shepard puts on when talking to Miranda...

[Ryzaki]

2kgnsiika wrote...

But I think Meer has gotten a lot better at it though. LotSB and Genesis are great examples of him displaying emotion in a non-creepy way.

Now, if they could only get rid of that horrible rapeface Shepard puts on when talking to Miranda...

Actually he sounds...bored in Genesis like he's reading from Cue cards. Not that I blame him. I'd be bored too.

LoTSB though yes. He has emotion. Too bad it's a railroaded emotion.

I like the rapeface. If only for sheer hilarity.

[Sabariel]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sabariel wrote...
Totally agree. I had to delete my Man Shepard as his deadpan awkwardness drove me insane

Actually I found it adorable. Painful at times but adorable at others.

Particularly when listening to the romance the "And now we save the galaxy!" It was cheesy, narmy as hell and I laughed. But that was the intentionof the line. It was supposed to be funny.

The only dialogue lines of Shep's I ever found bad bad was when he was comforting Talitha. That was awkard and stitled. That should've been redone.

Maybe I deleted Man Shepard too soon, but he never seemed to get pissed off over the things that pissed me off, things that would ****** anyone off. He always seemed to be calm, deadpan, about everything. Lady Shepard seemed to at least sound annoyed about things once in a while

Modifié par Sabariel, 27 janvier 2011 - 12:33 .