9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...

Garrus is straight.  sorry.

I'm sure you've been atracted to people without it being mutual.  I'm sure you've encountered situations where those people were straight.

personaly, I will have no issue whatsoever if they add in gay characters, complete with rejection towards straight Shepards of uncompatable sexuality.  heck I don't even think that prior selection of sexuality is needed, just give us a variety of conversation options that will allow us to get to know the characters without romancing them (for example, my femshep had an option of offering Garrus to have a tie breaker OR to spar with him, though I wish there was more dialogue after I picked the sparing option)

I personaly, would be very pissed off if developers started retconing characters just to satisfy the notions of political correctness.

Garrus is attracted to female turians who look closer to human males than human females. If he can muster an attraction to femshep, an attraction to male shepard isn't off base.

So the straight arguement means nothing considering he's already sleeping with someone outside his species.

And developers already started retconning characters sto titlate. Tali wasn't supposed to be a romance option (nor was Garrus for that matter) fan demand led to it.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 janvier 2011 - 05:43 .

[Sabariel]

jeweledleah wrote...

Garrus is straight.  sorry.

Puh-lease. Have you seen that head fringe of his? FA-BU-LOUS!!

[proboi]

Back in ME1, my fav buddies were Wrex and Garrus, and of course Garrus got my attention (dunno why I didn't think much about Wrex, maybe his krogan nature kinda push me away). I used to bring MShep down and chat with 'em after every mission, good times.
But in ME2, Garrus turned into a straight dude, thus kills my feelings toward him. Then Legion came, but there's nothing other than "No Data Available". And now I found myself falling in love with the krogans, I mean they are big, strong (things that I like), some are smart and romantic (like Charr - too bad he's straight), some are adorable (Grunt and Kargesh) and not to mention good old handsome Wrex.
Krogans have been our squadmates for 2 games, why can't we have romance with them anyway M/M is favorable, least expecting but well... it'll do
Reminds me of this

[ElitePinecone]

proboi wrote...

Back in ME1, my fav buddies were Wrex and Garrus, and of course Garrus got my attention (dunno why I didn't think much about Wrex, maybe his krogan nature kinda push me away). I used to bring MShep down and chat with 'em after every mission, good times.
But in ME2, Garrus turned into a straight dude, thus kills my feelings toward him. Then Legion came, but there's nothing other than "No Data Available". And now I found myself falling in love with the krogans, I mean they are big, strong (things that I like), some are smart and romantic (like Charr - too bad he's straight), some are adorable (Grunt and Kargesh) and not to mention good old handsome Wrex.
Krogans have been our squadmates for 2 games, why can't we have romance with them anyway M/M is favorable, least expecting but well... it'll do
Reminds me of this

It seems Bioware have made krogan deliberately non-romancable (the same as hanar, volus, elcor, etc), perhaps because they don't fit what we'd usually call a humanoid model.

It is interesting though, I heard a quote from a Bioware developer about the ME2 romance options, and one of the difficulties they described was making Thane the proper mix of 'alien' and 'human' to be a realistically attractive romance option for players. I suppose it has to do with how much demand there is for a particular character, and the sort of balance of team-members that Bioware has designed for that particular game. 

And of course, it brings me back to Casey Hudson's unfathomably mystifying quote: "If people want to have a romance with this bird-like guy with an exoskeleton, then okay."

Just on the debate about Garrus being 'straight' above, I don't think it's that relevant to apply human (21st century, even) notions to alien cultures. We know literally next to nothing about turian social norms, psychology, behaviour and so on. I'm not arguing for either opinion - I don't really have one, because I highly doubt former squadmates will return in a large role - but it pays to reserve judgement before we know the facts. Bioware controls the canon and the characters, ultimately they will decide whatever they want to. 

In light of the Cerberus Daily News finishing a few days ago, and the promise of more DLC in the future (perhaps related to the surviving squadmate from Virmire), I've been wondering something. What do people think about the possibility of modded save-games with an Ashley/Kaidam s/s romance working with any reunion scene? It's been observed to transfer fairly well in the past (e.g. from ME -> ME2). Would people welcome a second chance to romance these characters, if it was written appropriately? 

[proboi]

I was thinking about things like Beauty and the Beast (well not beauty in Shep's case), a relationship starts from squadmate, friendship, then a bond, "you got me, I got you" and finally "you love me and so do I, we do not need to bang each other to say the word Love"



although it can hardly be true, I still keep this tiny hope inside and dream about it.

[jeweledleah]

1. trying to avoid spoilers here as much as possible - Turians are dual gendered, which means they need both sexes to procreate, ergo male/female sexual pairing seems to be the default one for the species. Garrus talks to you about his experiences that are most definitely not gay. female Turians in comics seem to contradict the in game descriptions of a smaller more flexible decidedly fringed creatures.



2. love doesn't have to be romantic to be love. all my Sheps love Garrus, whether they are attracted to him or not, male or female. he's a very lovable character. romance though, it involves physical love as well as emotional. loving someone is not the same as being in love. it goes a bit beyond being friends. Incidentally I'm not sure if what Shep and Garrus have is romantic love. they come across as best friends with benefits (if you so chose).



maybe I'm showing my age, but personally, I haven't thought of courtly love as in any way realistic for a long long time.



that said, having a new gay character I think would be kinda cool Jack rejecting my femshep was more immersive and fun then everyone falling over their feet in adoration.

[lawp79]

I find it interesting that we automatically apply our conseptions of sexuality to the alien races. Maybe to a turian there is no such thing as straight or gay and their sexualitys are fluid, etc, etc.



Also somewhere in the game a turian says you humans all look the same, if that means both male and female I do not know, but I am pretty sure they would go for personality over looks if ya get me.

[Ryzaki]

...All of that ergo male female doesn't matter considering female Shepard isn't a member of Garrus' species. Nor does she resemble a female member of his species. Someone could be the most heterosexual male in the world. That doesn't make them attracted to female dogs. Being different genders is a far, far smaller gap then being different species.



And where does the game describe female turians? The closest I saw was Garrus mentioning fringes and waists.



As for Garrus and Shep not being romantic love. ...Eh. I didn't see it that way.



And romance. It's possible for Shep/Garrus to be intimate. Or did you miss Mordin's advice about ingesting?

[2kgnsiika]

Ryzaki wrote...
Garrus is attracted to female turians who look closer to human males than human females. If he can muster an attraction to femshep, an attraction to male shepard isn't off base.

You humans are all racist!

Seriously, though. Look at them female turian hips. Only a quarian woman can match that hip/waist ratio. Human women are at a clear disadvantage, let alone human males!

[Ryzaki]

2kgnsiika wrote...


You humans are all racist!

Seriously, though. Look at them female turian hips. Only a quarian woman can match that hip/waist ratio. Human women are at a clear disadvantage, let alone human males!

But Human males come closer to the wide shoulders and flat chests than the human females do. Frankly Garrus should be looking at FemShep's chest in curiosty if anything.

"What are those round things?" 

[Maugrim]

Ryzaki wrote...

2kgnsiika wrote...


You humans are all racist!

Seriously, though. Look at them female turian hips. Only a quarian woman can match that hip/waist ratio. Human women are at a clear disadvantage, let alone human males!

But Human males come closer to the wide shoulders and flat chests than the human females do. Frankly Garrus should be looking at FemShep's chest in curiosty if anything.

"What are those round things?" 

The proper term is "funny bumps".

[jeweledleah]

Ryzaki wrote...

...All of that ergo male female doesn't matter considering female Shepard isn't a member of Garrus' species. Nor does she resemble a female member of his species. Someone could be the most heterosexual male in the world. That doesn't make them attracted to female dogs. Being different genders is a far, far smaller gap then being different species.

And where does the game describe female turians? The closest I saw was Garrus mentioning fringes and waists.

As for Garrus and Shep not being romantic love. ...Eh. I didn't see it that way.

And romance. It's possible for Shep/Garrus to be intimate. Or did you miss Mordin's advice about ingesting?

garrus mentions his encounter to Shep, there's a certain extended npc conversation in a bar - both give a few more clues to female Turian appearance.

by your reasoning I should be atracted to female pro body builders becasue they are closer to men in their appearance then many men.  sorry, but that just doesn't work - sexual atraction is not merely appearance based, even if it does factor in.  when it comes to cross species romance, sexual preferences within your own species IMO are much more of a defining point.

Garrus and Shep have potential for romantic love, but I'm just not seeing it actualy happen at this point in game.  I didn't say it wasn't possible for them to be intimate, I was replying to a post that mentioned love without having to have sex - this is where reference to courtly love came from.

[DrBobcat]

RE: Sexuality of Non-Human Squadmates

I was going to speak on this subject in a different thread, but it's been inactive for quite some time. Now that it's been brought up here, however, I feel compelled to share my opinion.

Given how physiologically (and culturally) dissimilar the varying species are in Mass Effect, I am certain that romantic entanglements between them are met with a variety of unique challenges. Let's be honest here. They're different species. There will be complications. For evidence, look no further than the game itself. Mordin offers Shepard medical advice should he/she pursue a relationship with one of the alien squadmates. Then there is the Quarian in the bar on Illium. She goes on a rant about a recent fight she had with her human boyfriend and how it was primarily about sex. Sure, both of these examples were done in such a way so as to seem humorous and lighthearted, but we should remember that they still shed light on real issues faced by individuals in interspecies relationships. Also, do not forget how commonplace xenophobia is in the Mass Effect universe. It's an issue that rears its head countless times throughout the game and is definitely relevant here.

For the aforementioned reasons, I believe any interspecies relationship is likely to be problematic regardless of its sexual make-up. Whether it's viewed from an individual or societal perspective, that first hurdle is significantly more difficult to overcome than the latter. Secondly, as ElitePinecone stated earlier, who knows what Turians (or any other species, for that matter) look for in a partner? It could very well be the case that they generally find human males more attractive than females. Unfortunately, we don't have any real data to support this claim, and everything supplied by the writers thus far reeks of anthropomorphism. I think it's ridiculous that, even in interspecies relationships, heterosexual attraction is so readily preserved. Sure, it is easier for the player to relate to (seeing as heterosexuality is the norm for humans), but it seems absurd when viewed realistically. Another rant for another day...

This is where the argument arises that Garrus could be made bisexual in ME3. It isn't until the second game that he becomes a romance option, and the (implied) justification for this is that he simply wasn't comfortable with the idea yet. Well, what's to stop him from becoming comfortable with another idea, one where he pursues a relationship with mShep? From a writing standpoint, nothing.

Now, I know a lot of people here might disagree with that last statement. Many seem to believe that the game's characters exist in some sort of vacuum, forever set in stone. It is definitely true that the characters will never be more than what the writers permit them to be. However, as has already been established, writers can and do make changes when they feel the need to. Do I believe they should in this case? It depends entirely on how well they implement the change. If it seems too sudden or implausible, it will likely be perceived as an appeal to political correctness. I don't want Bioware to give us table scraps and I don't want them to tack anything on just so they can say they did. That'd defeat the entire purpose of this thread and would end up being more of a burden than a "reward."

I'm certain that, if they wanted to, they could implement the change in a believable way. Of course, the more pressing matter is whether they'll do anything at all...

- - - - - -

Just to reiterate my preferred solutions to the problem and to tie up some loose ends:
1) If all or most of the previous squadmates return in ME3, "bisexualize" one or two so that at least one same-sex romance option is available to Shepard
2) If none of the previous squadmates are returning, make two new squadmates bisexual
3) If there's going to be a mix of new and old squadmates, it depends on who's involved, but I'm leaning towards the second option for simplicity's sake
*) I realize exclusively homosexual romance options are expensive and don't mind if we have to "settle" for bisexual ones
*) Whether BW makes same-sex LIs available in ME3 or not, they should change the dialog system so that it's easier to understand the intent behind certain options (via color coding or DA2-style symbols)

- - - - - -

Sabariel wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

Garrus is straight.  sorry.

Puh-lease. Have you seen that head fringe of his? FA-BU-LOUS!!

Pa-hah! Thanks for the laugh. I rarely get the chance to do that while reading this thread.

Modifié par DrBobcat, 27 janvier 2011 - 01:24 .

[ElitePinecone]

DrBobcat wrote...
snip
- - - - - -

Just to reiterate my preferred solutions to the problem and to tie up some loose ends:
1) If all or most of the previous squadmates return in ME3, "bisexualize" one or two so that at least one same-sex romance option is available to Shepard
2) If none of the previous squadmates are returning, make two new squadmates bisexual
3) If there's going to be a mix of new and old squadmates, it depends on who's involved, but I'm leaning towards the second option for simplicity's sake
*) I realize exclusively homosexual romance options are expensive and don't mind if we have to "settle" for bisexual ones
*) Whether BW makes same-sex LIs available in ME3 or not, they should change the dialog system so that it's easier to understand the intent behind certain options (via color coding or DA2-style symbols)

These are all practical - even eminently reasonable - suggestions. 

Returning squadmates are always going to be tricky, given their volume, possible number of combinations and the fact that some players will enter ME3 with two and some with twelve. I can envisage a role for ME2 squadmates in ME3, but perhaps not as large as being a full (and thus romancable) part of Shepard's squad. The logistics of it seem insurmountable. That being said, I would welcome any returning squadmates if Bioware found a way to make it work. I doubt, though, that this would extend to 'bisexualising' some of them - not because I don't think it could be done, story-wise, but because there would be a negative reaction from a large proportion of current players. 

The second solution, in the absence of the first, is just about all that's left. I think it would have the widest support (as familiar characters aren't "ruined" or changed) and would probably be the easiest to write. We have next to no information about ME3 characters, so any discussion would be speculation at this point. Assuming that the squad size is at least as large as Mass Effect's (i.e. 6) I see ample space for at least one same-eex romance option for both genders of Shepard. No presumption intended  

I'm holding out hope that the dialogue wheel will be improved for ME3 - it stands to reason that Bioware would copy the innovation over to their other franchise, especially if it is received well by DA2 fans. This would, at the very least, make it easier to avoid unwanted romances and help distinguish the consequences of certain dialogue choices. 

[Sabariel]

DrBobcat wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

Garrus is straight.  sorry.

Puh-lease. Have you seen that head fringe of his? FA-BU-LOUS!!

Pa-hah! Thanks for the laugh. I rarely get the chance to do that while reading this thread.

You're most welcome, good sir. Glad I could help

[DarthSliver]

I didnt read most of this thread to be honest, but dont mind if this comes in some form to Mass Effect 3 or through a DLC. If you think about it, there is one relationship that can be considered same sex. Liara and Femshep, I dont know my Asari well but i am pretty sure Asari is a female races. I havent seen any male Asari to disapprove of that either. But for the same sex relationship to be more broaden, would be nice for the players/community that are more like that.

Modifié par DarthSliver, 28 janvier 2011 - 07:55 .

[Knoxcore]

I had to post here. Frankly, that other thread on the ME2 forum has gotten out of hand. People are ready to jump down your throat even if we fundamentally agree on the issue. Hopefully, I could find a far more civilized and respectful discussion here.

[MisterDyslexo]

Knoxcore wrote...

I had to post here. Frankly, that other thread on the ME2 forum has gotten out of hand. People are ready to jump down your throat even if we fundamentally agree on the issue. Hopefully, I could find a far more civilized and respectful discussion here.

Well its a hot-button issue, and for good reason. The person in that thread was getting flamed harshly for his/her inability to recognize the retconning, how open-interpretation can work, and how most people seem to feel about same-sex vs cross-species sexual relations. Her thinking was that "We're told these details, so thats all there is to know", which is important in story-telling. For example, in all of Shakespeare's plays, all of the important details were only said once. Thats how many times it had to be said. Kaidan was established as having a former relationship with a female, but not male, so he's considered straight. However, the cross-species thing is an interesting topic, which personally I feel that being a different species would be a much greater roadblock than being of the same sex (which doesn't even mean genetalia or method of reproduction, just who fertilizes and who births)

[ElitePinecone]

Knoxcore wrote...

I had to post here. Frankly, that other thread on the ME2 forum has gotten out of hand. People are ready to jump down your throat even if we fundamentally agree on the issue. Hopefully, I could find a far more civilized and respectful discussion here.

There's another thread? I genuinely had no idea.

This thread has been mostly reasonable and civil so far - I think there's a lot of room for discussion and genuine debate. It's obvious that there are very entrenched views on all sides, but it's nice to think we can attempt to reach a consensus on what would make for a better game. 

Edit: It's grown 10 pages in six hours. I don't think this will end well...

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 28 janvier 2011 - 08:43 .

[lawp79]

Urgh some peoples attitudes.

[MSparkyPants]

/110% support of all matters discussed.

[D3N1ZFTW]

I really would like a Shepard/Legion romance. BTW - Is Legion male or female?

[jethead]

+1 for robosexuality.

[ZABL2010]

Some friends (girls - gamers) tried to «convinced" me, (very emotional), that the romance between "Fem. Shepard" and Samara will be continued in ME3. So I used their “persons” (Fem.Shep.). And tried to do a video story about the history of Fem. Shepard and Samara. Indeed - The story is so tragic, it's hard to imagine the lack of continuation...

http://www.dailymoti...2-fantasy_music

[ElitePinecone]

ZABL2010 wrote...

Some friends (girls - gamers) tried to «convinced" me, (very emotional), that the romance between "Fem. Shepard" and Samara will be continued in ME3. So I used their “persons” (Fem.Shep.). And tried to do a video story about the history of Fem. Shepard and Samara. Indeed - The story is so tragic, it's hard to imagine the lack of continuation...
http://www.dailymoti...2-fantasy_music

This is a good video. I agree that the Samara story is a bit tragic, especially when we consider what she has gone through (the seperation from her kids, etc). I hope people get the chance to romance her in ME3, if they wish. 

It does strike me as odd that the Shepard/Liara romance is so positive (and with Lair of the Shadow Broker, it gets even better) but Samara's (and Thane's, too) is quite tragic. I guess it does help with the realism and pathos of the universe - can't always have happy endings.