9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

Jack assumes you're hitting on her and specifically tells fshep that she's not into women if you keep talking to her.

[Ryzaki]

Nefla wrote...

Jack assumes you're hitting on her and specifically tells fshep that she's not into women if you keep talking to her.

No she doesn't.

Girl's club can be interpreated in any number of ways. She doesn't say "i'm not into women Shepard."

And if she does I wanna see a youtube vid.

[Glorious_Leader]

SebastianDA wrote...

Actually Kaidan, like I said, was initially scripted to be obviously bisexual. MaleShep has lines that specically say "Kaidan" that you can access with the SetGender hack that people put on YouTube.  Like "Kaidan I don't think I've had the pleasure of you serving under me" (lol).  Kaidan's script that they did leave in still responds to MaleShep's comment.



Due to "resources" or whatever they claimed they took it out (unless you use SetGender). In ME2, my Female to Male Shephard became fully male, and Bioware wrote ALL of kaiden's lines to be gender neutral and the fully romance/hug scene worked as normal.

Kaidan was originally envisioned to be bisexual and it wasn't until the last minute changes that this was "offically" taken out.  But still they leave it open in ME2.  What I wrote about Kaidan above fully supports the notion of a male character that was written to have a dubious sexuality.

Kaidan is a character who happened to have lines recorded that did not make it into the game.  This is a common thing in game development.  The devs don't want to call the voice actors back into the studio every time they get a new idea, so they record a lot of dialogue when they get the chance, knowing they won't use a large portion of it.  The goal is to allow the writers freedom in making modifications to the script.  Kaidan was never intended to be gay, most likely.  However, if a writer decided to change his character to make him interested in Shepard in that way, they had the files on hand.  However, they ended up deciding that it doesn't fit the character for some reason.  Canonically, Kaidan is straight.

[London]

I don't think Kaidan was ever intended to be gay either, I believe he was intended to be Bi and that this was cut out later, after the character was developed, for either political or resource reasons.



So that is why we have the "canonically straight" Kaidan at this point.



However, due to how he was written and how this was handled in ME2 if you hacked ME1, if they regressed to the original concept in ME3 it wouldn't really be a big shock.

[MSparkyPants]

Sorry if this has been posted before, but here:

ManShep tells Liara he's only interested in men.

[London]

LOL I never heard that dialogue - I always picked "Kaiden is Special" - maybe I'll reload for amusement.

Also amusing that Shepard himself isn't buying the Bioware "Liara is not female" argument either.

Modifié par SebastianDA, 05 février 2011 - 03:23 .

[Glorious_Leader]

SebastianDA wrote...

I don't think Kaidan was ever intended to be gay either, I believe he was intended to be Bi and that this was cut out later, after the character was developed, for either political or resource reasons.

So that is why we have the "canonically straight" Kaidan at this point.

However, due to how he was written and how this was handled in ME2 if you hacked ME1, if they regressed to the original concept in ME3 it wouldn't really be a big shock.

If they want to do that with their character, I'm fine with it.  Personally, I didn't see Kaidan as a character with a bisexual tint to him.  Especially because he gives you some romantic lost love story about his time on Jump Zero.  (Kind of was hoping he'd be a squadmate in ME2 so you could find that chick on his loyalty mission.)  My only qualm is that, as an opponent to the current trend of LGBT chic, I don't want that stuff forced on everyone as some tacked on bull**** to keep that community happy.  If gay relationships are in the game, I want a character that was designed in a fashion that will allow their romance to seem genuine.  I don't want the typically amazing script reduced to the quality of the "gay fad" that society is currently experiencing.  This isn't out of opposition to homosexuals; it's out of respect.  The characters shouldn't be maleable.  Their individual personalities and traits should be set in stone, unless they're changed by the events of the game.  I don't want a character that I know should be straight suddenly hitting on my maleshep just because a portion of the ME community demanded it. 

In summary, if it's appropriate for a character to be gay or bisexual based on their background, then BioWare should allow a same sex Shepard to pursue that love interest.  If it's not appopriate for any characters in the game, then I don't want to see a single same sex relationship possibility.  If the homosexual population need to have gay characters to enjoy ME's storyline, then they're playing it for the wrong reasons.

[Ryzaki]

Ah I felt that way about Tali and Garrus. I wanted to cry when Tali my Shep's little sister started talking about falling for him.

He was all "Noooooooooooo!" but he just rejected her and kept it moving.

However BW did do it in a believeable manner. I feel they'd do the same for the s/s option.

I wouldn't be remiss to getting a new character (including Joker) for a m/m option.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 février 2011 - 03:31 .

[London]

Except if you are going to put romances in a game, you should have options for everyone.



That's like saying that only heterosexuals should get 100% of the Mass Effect experience, which Romances are a huge part of considering all the threads and attention about them. So while I think homosexuals can enjoy ME generally, to more fully enjoy it and get the same level of emotional attachment to a character, a LI they can relate to should be present.



Personally if Jack does tell FemShep she's not into women, I don't see a problem with that. I'd like to see this scene also - I never play FemShep so I have no idea how people respond to her.



And "gay fad" is a bit offensive. Homosexuality has been oppressed, and the big push for inclusivity for a minority group that has been kept nonexistant in popular media until the past couple decades didn't really start until now.



By the time ME's timeline comes, in the 2100's, people would have long since gotten bored with homosexuality as an issue. We are already seeing a lot of political and social progress now. Humanity would have long sinced moved along towards something else to be bigoted towards.

[Joanne Shepard]

this is just a small idea of mine... Playing as Femshep in ME2 I really hoped Miranda could be my LI but i can't (on 360 with out mod)... anyway I do support same sex romance in ME for both male and female. In ME1 I could go for Liara but there are any same sex LI for either M/F shep. So I really hope that in ME3 there could be some changes. Doesn't have to be mandatory or anything... It would be great if it could be available

[ElitePinecone]

Glorious_Leader wrote...
In summary, if it's appropriate for a character to be gay or bisexual based on their background, then BioWare should allow a same sex Shepard to pursue that love interest.  If it's not appopriate for any characters in the game, then I don't want to see a single same sex relationship possibility.  If the homosexual population need to have gay characters to enjoy ME's storyline, then they're playing it for the wrong reasons.

That's a reasonable position - I don't think many people would argue for a superficial same-sex romance just for the sake of it. 

Further, despite how much of this thread is consumed by debate about whether 'bisexualising' familiar characters is appropriate, I hold the view that if ever same-sex romance options were to become available, they would be with new (presumably ME3) characters in any case. 

In regards to the debate about Kaidan above, the position is complicated. Bioware obviously retains creative control over the character, and it's abundantly clear that at some point in production he was meant to be an option for male Shepards. I don't really wish to spend pages debating the issue further, except to say that Bioware's writing team is talented enough to script a well-designed bisexual/gay/lesbian romance. 

[MisterDyslexo]

I could see Bioware making a s/s with Kaidan in ME3, and as a anon-Retcon as well. I mean if there's a reason why Kaidan, in ME1, would 'mance FemShep, but not Maleshep, it could be brought up and he get over this hump somehow. I mean, its just speculation, but it could have something to do with a protective complex of Shepard, and his death, or maybe his time at BaAT affected how he perceived gender roles to a major enough extent, and somehow between Shep getting blown into space and meeting in ME3, something change inside of him. I think it would be an actually very interesting character subplot to develop and examine, and quite frankly while I'm not really after a Kaidan m/m romance, if they did it well like that, I'd go for it just to see what happens.

That's just me thinking aloud though, and if its stupid like most of my ideas, just ignore it.

[Glorious_Leader]

SebastianDA wrote...

Except if you are going to put romances in a game, you should have options for everyone.

That's like saying that only heterosexuals should get 100% of the Mass Effect experience, which Romances are a huge part of considering all the threads and attention about them. So while I think homosexuals can enjoy ME generally, to more fully enjoy it and get the same level of emotional attachment to a character, a LI they can relate to should be present.

Personally if Jack does tell FemShep she's not into women, I don't see a problem with that. I'd like to see this scene also - I never play FemShep so I have no idea how people respond to her.

And "gay fad" is a bit offensive. Homosexuality has been oppressed, and the big push for inclusivity for a minority group that has been kept nonexistant in popular media until the past couple decades didn't really start until now.

By the time ME's timeline comes, in the 2100's, people would have long since gotten bored with homosexuality as an issue. We are already seeing a lot of political and social progress now. Humanity would have long sinced moved along towards something else to be bigoted towards.

When I said there should be a gay character or two, I meant a character that would refuse heterosexual advances.  Thus heterosexuals are denied certain romance options just as homosexuals are.  And I think you and I can agree that in a character homosexuals can relate to, Mass Effect needs a character that is designed to be homosexual.  Not just character that's generic and can adapt their sexual orientation as an afterthought.

If you're seeking acknowledgement of attempts at homosexual romance paths, even if that expresses itself in a scene where a character tells Shepard they're not interested, I am in agreeance.  There's no reason not to include such a thing for a character that is strictly heterosexual.

As for the final argument, I was criticizing the LGBT chic trend occuring in our culture now.  But to avoid locking a thread that's had so much work and thought put into it, I digress.

[Cootie]

I'd just like to point out that any VO-director would've caught how oddly flirty FemShep is while saying goodbye to Ashley during any conversation in ME-1.

"Dismissed, Chief." - sounded way too nawtay.

[HGunner]

The inclusion of a sex scene in Mass Effect led to some controversy and inaccurate rumours of the game being pornographic in nature. These rumours have since been quelled. An additional message that can be found in Asteroid X57's pirate radio shack (in the PC version of Bring Down the Sky) may be a "response" to this controversy.

Mass Effect was banned in Singapore for a short time before it was lifted with an M18 rating. Censors in the country said that a scene with an alien and human female caressing was the main reason why the game was not allowed to be sold in Singaporean video game stores.

^ I believe this is the main reason there are not many of said relationships. So I doubt it's actually going to happen, even in ME3. Those kinda rumors are just horrible for sales.

Modifié par HGunner, 05 février 2011 - 05:29 .

[HGunner]

Failpost

Modifié par HGunner, 05 février 2011 - 05:28 .

[HGunner]

Wow. I'm a failnoob. Meant to edit, not quote. Sorry. Annnd I did it twice in a row! I'mma just shoot myself now.

Modifié par HGunner, 05 février 2011 - 05:31 .

[Capeo]

After Tali's loyalty mission she seemed slightly flirty with my FemShep. I forget the exact conversation, but she expresses how she would connect suits with me and I say how I'd like that then Tali gets a bit embarrassed in a manner that certainly hints at true affection.



As a whole, I was disappointed that same sex relationships didn't exist in ME2. Having not played ME1, I just assumed, given BW's fairly progressive track record in regards to LIs that it would be an option.

[Space Kookie]

Male Shepard Garrus

Meh se agree on teh gay butt sex =,D

PLEASE BIOWARE, MAKE IT HAPPEN!!! :]

[jeweledleah]

Capeo wrote...

After Tali's loyalty mission she seemed slightly flirty with my FemShep. I forget the exact conversation, but she expresses how she would connect suits with me and I say how I'd like that then Tali gets a bit embarrassed in a manner that certainly hints at true affection.

As a whole, I was disappointed that same sex relationships didn't exist in ME2. Having not played ME1, I just assumed, given BW's fairly progressive track record in regards to LIs that it would be an option.

linking suits is not always about sex.  its about trust and respect.  if you talk to the admiral Shala'raan, she mentions that she linked suits with Tali's mother as show of trust and support during Tali's birth and it was most definitely not sexual.
http://masseffect.wi...Raan_vas_Tonbay

also as far as voice overs are concerned - female Shepard talking to Jacob.  sometimes voice overs are not perfect.  don't read too much into it. a lot of voice over lines are gender neutral.  it is not to leave the door open for possible bisexual romances.  its to save money on voice overs, since you'd be able to use the same soundbites for either gender.

lastly, this is somethign I've discovered just recently, while playing a chatty paragon male shep interested in Liara.  when talking to Kaidan, you can ask him what he thinks about her and he shows atraction to her. there's a cute little competition for her affections conversation there too.  Kaidan also shows atraction to strippers at Chora's Den.  whatever developers might have been thinking about for him at first, in the finished product he's very much interested in women and doesn't show any interest in men.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 06 février 2011 - 12:53 .

[Cootie]

Although you could also argue that Kaidan discussing "views" is more about him pointing out something really awkward. I didn't consider it as much gawking as maybe, uhm...

"Soooo... nice place, huh?"

Considering the circumstances, it's not like he could not acknowledge the presence of lewd asari dancers.

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...
lastly, this is somethign I've discovered just recently, while playing a chatty paragon male shep interested in Liara.  when talking to Kaidan, you can ask him what he thinks about her and he shows atraction to her. there's a cute little competition for her affections conversation there too.  Kaidan also shows atraction to strippers at Chora's Den.  whatever developers might have been thinking about for him at first, in the finished product he's very much interested in women and doesn't show any interest in men.

Yes because everyone knows bisexuals don't exist.

No way you can be attracted to both females and males.

Also: When does *anyone* express interest in human males outside the crew? (Outside the crew would exclude Ash's crush on Kaidan). Every human male you meet is either another officer (frantinization), some random civilian who you barely say a few sentences to or a complete douche.

Also for reference: Sky in JE is a bi option but only expresses interest in game towards females unless the male player makes the first move. I easily see Kaidan as doing the same thing. He's not the sort to flirt unless he's been flirted with to begin with.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 février 2011 - 05:30 .

[LukeT]

Why should I get a real life gf when I can get a virtual gf?!



Just keep it hetero/lesbian, gay wouldn't be popular, might cause too much controversy.

[Cootie]

LukeT wrote...

Why should I get a real life gf when I can get a virtual gf?!

Just keep it hetero/lesbian, gay wouldn't be popular, might cause too much controversy.

I get the feeling that you don't appreciate the value of using video games as a medium for interactive and immersive storytelling. If people stopped considering video games as mere juvenile entertainment, there wouldn't be any controversy to speak of.

Besides, every famous person in the world of literature always pushed the envelope in some manner or form. That is how history is made. The ball has been placed in Bioware's court right now, and we're just hoping they play it right.
Why settle for something mediocre like an FPS-shooter-RPG, when you can be a revolutionary space opera?

This kind of limit to creativity makes the storyteller in me cringe. Badly.

[Ryzaki]

HolyMoogle wrote...

LtlMac wrote...

#2  i don't like being 'forced' into homosexual dialogue.  What I mean is...in Jad Empite I'm just trying to be nice to whatever that male guys name is

You've got to be kidding me. Are you sure it's Jade Empire you're talking about? In order to romance Sky as a male, you have to go through the most absurd and complex path of being as obnoxious as possible to the two female romance options, and make it as clear as possible that you hate women (not just are not interested in them, HATE them) before Sky comes remotely close to bringing it up at all. Even then, he's reluctant to.

You know what? There's no way you could have just stumbled upon that. I think you secretly wanted to romance Sky.

I just noticed this and I call BS too. There's just no way. If you were playing douchebag mcgee you'd have rejected Sky too automatically before he even gave a name to his attraction.

There was one dialogue choice out of five that lead to a Sky romance. You had to trigger this dialogue at a very specific time (you had to dump Dawn Star and Silk Fox *before* a certain convo or the trigger would never occur and it's a very easy trigger to miss.) So yeah. BS. There's no way anyone romanced him by accident. He even gives you no less than 3 chances to reject him! In multiple ways!

During the "why aren't you interested in X or Y?" you have to specifically tell him it's because you're interested in him!

He doesn't say *anything* about being attraction to the male PC until the PC says this!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 février 2011 - 06:38 .