9243 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

Ryzaki wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
lastly, this is somethign I've discovered just recently, while playing a chatty paragon male shep interested in Liara.  when talking to Kaidan, you can ask him what he thinks about her and he shows atraction to her. there's a cute little competition for her affections conversation there too.  Kaidan also shows atraction to strippers at Chora's Den.  whatever developers might have been thinking about for him at first, in the finished product he's very much interested in women and doesn't show any interest in men.

Yes because everyone knows bisexuals don't exist.

No way you can be attracted to both females and males.

Also: When does *anyone* express interest in human males outside the crew? (Outside the crew would exclude Ash's crush on Kaidan). Every human male you meet is either another officer (frantinization), some random civilian who you barely say a few sentences to or a complete douche.

Also for reference: Sky in JE is a bi option but only expresses interest in game towards females unless the male player makes the first move. I easily see Kaidan as doing the same thing. He's not the sort to flirt unless he's been flirted with to begin with.

you and I have already been over this before.

there are NO trigers in game that will start a romance with Kaidan and what you're asking for is retroactively putting some in, changing already established character just so that you can experience your crush without having to mod it.  I understand, I really do.

I'm not saying bisexuals don't exist, heck Kelly is very obviously one  (asari don't count, sorry, as they have different paramenters for their atraction that has nothing to do with gender or even species).  all I'm saying that current ME love interests are not bisexual, not at this point in a game and you're trying to play god to change them to suit your desires.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 06 février 2011 - 07:03 .

[Ryzaki]

Right but I'm not the one saying Kaidan is automatically *anything* You are.

You're pretty much saying Kaidan can't be interested in dude Shepard because he wasn't in Mass Effect 1. I'm saying he *could* be if written properly.

And on the changing character note: I point again towards Garrus and Tali.

You're trying to place him in a neat little box while I admit he could be either/or.

Until you can point out where Kaidan rejects dude Shep you will never be able to say he is 100% defintely not interested in a male Shepard.

I'm not saying Kaidan will be always without fail be interested in dude Sep but there's nothing to say that he couldn't be.

Where's you're arguing there's not a chance he could be.

I'll take your point seriously where you prove Kaidan rejects a male Shepard's advances.

Also: Playing god? I'm not the writers. Neither are you for that matter.

And thinking someone *can* be bisexual isn't "playing god." anymore than insisting they're heterosexual is.

Like I said in the old thread. "Citation needed." 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 février 2011 - 07:18 .

[Cootie]

jeweledleah wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
lastly, this is somethign I've discovered just recently, while playing a chatty paragon male shep interested in Liara.  when talking to Kaidan, you can ask him what he thinks about her and he shows atraction to her. there's a cute little competition for her affections conversation there too.  Kaidan also shows atraction to strippers at Chora's Den.  whatever developers might have been thinking about for him at first, in the finished product he's very much interested in women and doesn't show any interest in men.

Yes because everyone knows bisexuals don't exist.

No way you can be attracted to both females and males.

Also: When does *anyone* express interest in human males outside the crew? (Outside the crew would exclude Ash's crush on Kaidan). Every human male you meet is either another officer (frantinization), some random civilian who you barely say a few sentences to or a complete douche.

Also for reference: Sky in JE is a bi option but only expresses interest in game towards females unless the male player makes the first move. I easily see Kaidan as doing the same thing. He's not the sort to flirt unless he's been flirted with to begin with.

you and I have already been over this before.

there are NO trigers in game that will start a romance with Kaidan and what you're asking for is retroactively putting some in, changing already established character just so that you can experience your crush without having to mod it.  I understand, I really do.

I'm not saying bisexuals don't exist, heck Kelly is very obviously one  (asari don't count, sorry, as they have different paramenters for their atraction that has nothing to do with gender or even species).  all I'm saying that current ME love interests are not bisexual, not at this point in a game and you're trying to play god to change them to suit your desires.

The question is why a simple request, or a call for acknowledgement is such a big deal. You're being very dramatic, saying things such as "you're trying to play God to change them to suit your desires".
But really, in my interpretation, Kaidan seems very sexually ambiguous, or at least very open. And it is frustrating to not know for sure, since there's a big giant invisible wall of code in the way.
The romance was there, but it was removed. There is a feeling of being oh, so close and yet so far away. And to be honest, the story of Mass Effect would've been so greatly improved if the diversity was upped to a reasonable level.

There is a gargantuan hole that we want Bioware to fill. Asking for something like this is no more "playing God" than asking for another heavy weapon.
Options. Do want.
You can be straight with Kaidan if you want to. Let us be gay with him if we'd like, pretty please?

[LiquidGrape]

What it boils down to is this simple query; has Kaidan ever explicitly, unambiguously, referred to his sexuality as falling into one singular category?

The answer is no. And as such, is open for elaboration.

What has been showcased thus far is pretty much irrelevant. Sure, the hetero-exclusivity of ME1 might suggest something, but by no means does it leave every stone unturned.

But eh, I wouldn't go for Kaidan either way should the option be included. The guy is such a drip.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 06 février 2011 - 07:38 .

[Ryzaki]

Because I am sick of the misinformation about the Sky romance being spread:

Part One

Part Two

Part Three

Part Four

Part Five

Part Six

This is what happens when you don't turn down both females. Please note you don't even have to actually be in a romance with them! You just haven't shut them down (which usually consists of being somewhat douchey if you do it too soon). In my case I didn't shut down either one but Dawn Star took prescendence.

Part Seven

The above *only* occurs if you have rejected both female LIs. And if you honestly tell me that's confusing...well you should be going to school rather than playing video games.

And yes before I even hear it only the blatant romantic options lead to the romance. And *no* I'm not going to play through the game picking the obvious none romance starters and then wasting time recording just for you to be sure. You do that on your own game.

Part Eight

This is hands down my favorite romance scene in the game. I literally squee everytime. (even more than when Alistair gives my female PC the rose if that means anything) Whoever (and if it was more than one person) wrote this scene you (or you all) rock!

Part Nine

You'll notice you have a opportunity to end the romance again. Of course I'm not going to but there's the option.

Part Ten

And yet another chance to end the romance .We're reaching the climax here.
No that wasn't a dirty joke. I swear I'm good. :innocent:

I'll edit this with more vids as I put them up.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 février 2011 - 08:40 .

[Sahariel]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Sahariel wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...
Snipped for brevity.

snip

sniperooneydingdong

Good back and forth, I don't completely agree to disagree as I would be perfectly happy with what a lot of people advocate. Adding in S/S romances, expanding on some established crew members sexuality in ME3. So in that your preaching to the choir. It is as you say at the end pragmatism, there seems to be a great deal of support and some opposition to the ideas presented on this particular thread. Now assuming that this thread has a chance of influencing game design for ME3 (which I suspect not, but hey colour me optimistic anyway!), and ideas are taken from this thread. A solution that has the least opposition and compromises past any reasonable objections could see the game containing content that will popularize and make S/S romances in the media that little bit more acceptable. That would be the biggest coup for the supporters of this thread.

It would be a shame if such a possiblity becomes stillborn. The situation in this thread are a lot of the same issues bounce back and forth. Take for example Kaiden could be bi Vs he's definately not. This is just going to go around and around in circles ad infinitum. What I would like to see is something of a consensus of opinion behind what might actually be possible to implement beyond any reasonable objection. I would define a any reasonable objection to be someone actually having to come out and say "I don't like gays and bis and don't want them in my game". Such a view shows the bigotry for what it is: unreasonable.

If we can compromise on the suggestion I made, no matter how simliar it was to previous iterations of this thread, then we have a much greater chance of seeing it implemented. I doubt many devs pop in here seriously beyond a scan and seeing the same old ground gone over and over. So why not take either my idea or another one, and hash it out so there can be no objections? Maybe as a community we might surprise ourselves.

[The Fan]

Wrexdot wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

The Uncanny wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Shavon wrote...



More importantly, I think Male Shepard needs a turn. There should be a gay romance for MShep in ME3, without having to mod.

I second and third this!

I'll fourth and fifth it.

I sixth this.

And i dismiss this

I agree to dismiss this. I don't want my hero to be homosexual. I don't have anything against it but i just... no no no. It could destroy Shepards image in several ways. Im sorry. 

[Ryzaki]

...Yes because the computer will force you to pick the gay option.



Just like it forces me to be a renegde. *nods sagely*

[AdmiralCheez]

The Fan wrote...

I agree to dismiss this. I don't want my hero to be homosexual. I don't have anything against it but i just... no no no. It could destroy Shepards image in several ways. Im sorry.

How could it if he and his lover are the only two that know about it?

And why does liking men have to be a sacrifice to masculinity, anyway?

And really, if you never take the gay option, does it matter?  I think you are more concerned with the media backlash and being harped on for playing a "gay" game.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 07 février 2011 - 05:39 .

[Ryzaki]

I'm rebumping because my post is mostly finished.

And yes the romance starters are that blatant. If you found that forcing you into a romance I have no idea what to say.

[Cootie]

I'm not sure I see how my homosexual FemShep is awesome while a homosexual ManShep is a big no-no.

I also don't see how my homosexual FemShep doesn't matter to you at all, while my homosexual ManShep would disrupt your gameplay and force your hand towards the more fabulous dialog options.



Personally, all of my Shepards are homosexual, because I believe it adds a lot more Oomph to their characters. I feel it makes them interesting and perhaps partly because of the "Oooh, how did that happen?"-factor in the back of my head. Besides, macho heroes are way more awesome if they're set apart from the Straight White Male stereotype somehow.

[MisterDyslexo]

The Fan wrote...

I agree to dismiss this. I don't want my hero to be homosexual. I don't have anything against it but i just... no no no. It could destroy Shepards image in several ways. Im sorry. 

Yeah, I still don't understand what people mean by this. To me, if you have a mental picture of what your Shepard is in your head, and then you see that 'x' is possible from some video on youtube or something, to me you're not RPing. Thats just how it works in my mind.. And there are multiple things to help make each Shepard unique, so-to-speak. Face creator is a major one, and that just basic gaming. For example the Sims (I'm using because I'd assume you've played it), which to me is role-playing, but just with a unique slant to it, you can have to Sims which look exactly the same, and act the same, but in your mind are two very different "people".
I'll bring myself into it. I loathe the Talimance. She's very much like my sister, and I also recognize her as indirectly being a comparison to the Palestinian people. So when she started hitting on me, I saw an AK-47 wielding sister of mine shouting pick-up lines at me in Arabic. I dumped her, moved on. Doesn't affect my image of my Shep.
And if you're worried about being hit on by a character of the same sex, the above is why I think that Bioware should make it so that you have to very obviously initiate the romance. Of course, even if you don't, and get hit on, like me with Tali, life goes on, you won't die, and it shouldn't have an effect on your idea of your particular Shepard up in your head, assuming you're role-playing properly.

[jeweledleah]

honestly I have no issues with there being gay characters. my issue is with old characters suddenly changing their preferences. (I also have issues with lack of squad armors and breather masks instead of helmets in space for the exact same reason - continuity of the universe) just because they never explicitly state "I'm only into men/women" - doesn't really mean that they aren't. I don't go around telling people that I'm not attracted to women, it doesn't mean that at some point I may change my mind. it just means I don't feel its a necessary information to give out unless specifically asked (and yeah, in ME, you don't get to ask, but I'm guessing developers didn't think that particular question was necessary)

but yes, developers confirming it one way or the other would be lovely. it would stop the speculation once and for all.

P.S. sexual preference =/= wuss its perfectly possible to have a gay tough guy hero, that to me was never in question. One of my favorite romantic stories features a tough guy, a veritable alpha male, as masculine as they come.......sexual submissive. the question is whether Mass Effect speccificaly features these sort of people and whether old characters as ambiguous in their sexuality as you guys want them to be.

yes, definitely developer intervention nessesary.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 07 février 2011 - 05:53 .

[MisterDyslexo]

I have a question to you jeweledleah.
What if a character wasn't didn't necessarily have their personality retconned, but developed?

I'm just going to use Kaidan as an example. While I personally don't really want to m/m romance him, there's a lot to support that he's a viable option. And what if somehow, between ME1 and ME3, there was a dynamic shift in his personality, and attraction to men (or at least just Shepard)? I mean its reasonable to me, if given a meritorious reason. Like lets just say something very simple (all made up), like about how his training in BaaT pushed that idea of sexual attraction or conduct with another male away from him, for some reason or another, or maybe it had a relation to species-ism, and the fact that well only male+female=baby, and somehow this has affected his view on how he should conduct himself, to progress humanity so-to-speak. That changed between M! to ME3 because yadayadayada blahblahblah.
Well, that last one doesn't seem very Kaidan-like, almost like it'd work for Ashley, but you get the point. How would you feel about that, since it is actual, genuine character development. Its a retcon on paper, but is developed differently. Sorta retcon, but change in character.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 07 février 2011 - 06:05 .

[Cootie]

It's not a retcon if it's an addition. I don't know if Bioware would go for the "Oh, I'm also attracted to men, but I was afraid of telling you"-route, or the "OH BY THE WAY I AM GAY NOW EVEN THOUGH I WASN'T BEFORE ISN'T THAT FUNNY HOW THAT HAPPENED FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER"-route.



But I'm willing to bet Bioware's a bit too subtle for the capital letters.

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...

honestly I have no issues with there being gay characters. my issue is with old characters suddenly changing their preferences. (I also have issues with lack of squad armors and breather masks instead of helmets in space for the exact same reason - continuity of the universe) just because they never explicitly state "I'm only into men/women" - doesn't really mean that they aren't. I don't go around telling people that I'm not attracted to women, it doesn't mean that at some point I may change my mind. it just means I don't feel its a necessary information to give out unless specifically asked (and yeah, in ME, you don't get to ask, but I'm guessing developers didn't think that particular question was necessary)

but yes, developers confirming it one way or the other would be lovely. it would stop the speculation once and for all.

P.S. sexual preference =/= wuss its perfectly possible to have a gay tough guy hero, that to me was never in question. One of my favorite romantic stories features a tough guy, a veritable alpha male, as masculine as they come.......sexual submissive. the question is whether Mass Effect speccificaly features these sort of people and whether old characters as ambiguous in their sexuality as you guys want them to be.

yes, definitely developer intervention nessesary.

And yet Sky acts similar to Kaidan in terms of treating the male character as just a friend until the male character explictly expresses interest.

He even flirts with Dawn Star and had a wife and child!

I'm willing to be my left foot if we took Sky into a brothel he'd admire the female prostitues. (Probably would be a bit more than just "nice view." too.)

And...when did I say anything about tough guy heroes? That's not why I posted those vids. It was to disprove that  "Oh he never said he was attracted to male Shepard so he must not be." wrong.

And on that note...I forgot how sexy Cam Clarke's voice was. Replaying JE has turned out to be rather nice.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 février 2011 - 06:16 .

[jeweledleah]

Ryzaki wrote...

And...when did I say anything about tough guy heroes? That's not why I posted those vids. It was to disprove that  "Oh he never said he was attracted to male Shepard so he must not be." wrong.

but that's a different universe and a different story.  my femshep acts like she's in heat with Jacob even if all she wants to do is be drink spilling buddies.  sometimes friendly is all it is - friendly.

as for tough guy thing - I need to remember to quote specific post I'm replying to >_>  that was to someone who said that Shepard being gay ruins his tough guy image o_O

edited to add.  personality changes are not the same as sexuality changes (not that Kaidan's personality changed all that much - he has one angry outburst, and he's been known to show anger even in ME1, just not very often) especialy when it comes to something as core as gender of the person you are atracted to.  if bioware were to develop Kaidan as bi-sexual they would have to do some serious juggling of the prior story.  and I don't know, to me it still comes across as wistful thinking.  I'm just not seeing a guy who jockeys for Liara's attention with maleshep, whos first love was a girl and who most definitely apreciates female looking strippers,  or talks about prefering adventurous women with interested femshep - as bi.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 07 février 2011 - 06:22 .

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...

but that's a different universe and a different story.  my femshep acts like she's in heat with Jacob even if all she wants to do is be drink spilling buddies.  sometimes friendly is all it is - friendly.

as for tough guy thing - I need to remember to quote specific post I'm replying to >_>  that was to someone who said that Shepard being gay ruins his tough guy image o_O

Sometimes. Sure. But you're acting like it's a definite while I'm saying it's a possibility. I'm not saying Kaidan secretly wants to shag my Dude Shep against the wall like a cat in heat. I'm saying he *could* be attracted to Shepard but not vocalize it. Could. Not is. I'd like it if he was. And I have some faith in BW not to make it facepalmworthy (more faith in the DA team to be honest) but yeah.

Besides being attracted to dude Shep doesn't make Kaidan radically different. He's not going to start shoving his tongue down random dude's throats. Hell he might not even be attracted to dudes and still feel an attraction to male Shepard.

Ah. Sorry about that. Though...urgh. I'm not even going to get into that.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 février 2011 - 06:21 .

[jeweledleah]

Ryzaki wrote..


Besides being attracted to dude Shep doesn't make Kaidan radically different. He's not going to start shoving his tongue down random dude's throats. Hell he might not even be attracted to dudes and still feel an attraction to male Shepard.

this...might actualy be plausible if done carefuly and right.  not sure how...  makes me think of Nef and Morinth for some reason :/  that, or SnL's Mango.

sorry, couldn't resist

Modifié par jeweledleah, 07 février 2011 - 06:27 .

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah
this...might actualy be plausible if done carefuly and right.  not sure how...  makes me think of Nef and Morinth for some reason :/

...The bolded scares me despite being pleased at slightly tempting you towards the dark side.

...And now I have a image of Edward Cullen biting Shepard. I'm no longer scared and have been reduced to facepalming.

Ah Twilight. Why did you have to ruin vampires for me? 

Edited: As for personality shifts I'd find the paragon to renegade shift more noticeable than him becoming attracted to a male Shepard.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 février 2011 - 06:29 .

[jeweledleah]

Ryzaki wrote...

jeweledleah
this...might actualy be plausible if done carefuly and right.  not sure how...  makes me think of Nef and Morinth for some reason :/

...The bolded scares me despite being pleased at slightly tempting you towards the dark side.

...And now I have a image of Edward Cullen biting Shepard. I'm no longer scared and have been reduced to facepalming.

Ah Twilight. Why did you have to ruin vampires for me? 

Edited: As for personality shifts I'd find the paragon to renegade shift more noticeable than him becoming attracted to a male Shepard.

oh crist, that was an image I saw didn't want to see, I must scrub my eyes, brun it with fire  oooh!  I'll read some Laurel Hamilton, that should help somewhat.

I could never bring myself to renegade Kaidan :/  it just feels ...so wrong :/  although even asa renegade,he's still an honorable guy, just less openminded about aliens.. and yet... so wrong.

hmm, there's an image for you - jean Claude as Shep  

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...

oh crist, that was an image I saw didn't want to see, I must scrub my eyes, brun it with fire  oooh!  I'll read some Laurel Hamilton, that should help somewhat.

I could never bring myself to renegade Kaidan :/  it just feels ...so wrong :/  although even asa renegade,he's still an honorable guy, just less openminded about aliens.. and yet... so wrong.

hmm, there's an image for you - jean Claude as Shep  

Nope now you have the image of Edward stalking Shepard and Shepard saying s/he loves the fact that Edward watched them at night repressing the urge to drink all their blood. Its tru wub.

True but attracted to dude Shep he could be both honorable and openminded about aliens. :innocent:

...? *googles* ...Hm...I see some fugly Jean Claude's but I see some hot ones as well. Which one are you talking about? 

Honestly though I rather they'd used Meer's face. Meer is really good looking. Though maybe the devs thought it was overkill to have Meer's voice and face as Default male Commander Shepard.

Oddly I used to think Default Shep was the best looking until I started designing custom Sheps. Now I can't go back.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 février 2011 - 06:46 .

[MisterDyslexo]

Its not uncommon to find jsut one particular of a certain sex attractive, while still finding the rest of them polarizing. A recent, and IMO good example, was in that movie that came out last year, The Kids Are Alright, about the lesbian couple. The woman who got into the love affair with the man was just that still, a lesbian. No radical change in sexuality, none whatsoever. Its just that she found him engaging with her and her somewhat neglectful partner inadvertently pushed her into whoever's arms she found comforting. A more mental, and emotional attraction, than a physical one. Very common IRL as well. Attraction to their inside, not their outside, so-to-speak.



Shep's definitely engaging enough and has enough leeway with personality and choices that these characters could suddenly find him/her attractive as a person. When I first picked up ME2, I figured that Miranda was 'manceable by both sexes, but that she was straight. She is "perfect", genetically, so-to-speak, so attraction to women as a whole doesn't seem likely to me. I figured though that after working on FemShep for two years, and becoming her best-buddy-friend-pal and having FemShep get involved in her personal matters with emotional investment, she would start to find Shepard, the individual, as attractive. Alas, no such luck.

[jeweledleah]

omg, do you want me to have nightmares? why are you being so cruel to me WHYYYYY????



I'm talking about this Jean Claude





very very pretty, basically irresistible vampire master, who's only more scary because of that prettiness - its very deceptive.

[Ryzaki]

Ah.



Now I have the urge to have a all male vamp alien species to lure Shepard to his doom.



Just for the lulz of course it'll turn out to be a dream sequence.



...Why do I have the odd sinking feeling that that species if it ever existed will be the ones who initially created the reapers? *rubs temples* You know what I'm gonna put that in the back of my mind lest I get depressed.