9243 réponses à ce sujet

[earthbornFemShep]

Okay... so no one asked me, but this is how I think the problem should be fixed as a compromise to both sides. 

Bioware should do the following:
1) Make a male squadmate that appears to not be a love interest unless a manShep blatantly states to the squaddie that Shep is gay or bisexual.  (This squadmate would not be interested in femshep for anything other than friendship.) 

2) All squadmates remain as they are in each of our games.... however, the LI dialogue should continue to be gender neutral and the Shepard dialogue should continue to be recorded by both Meer and Hale.  This allows players who modified their romances to continue their relationships, but it would be completely unseen by those who did not.

and, although this would probably upset most overzealous straight male gamers...
3) Make a female squadmate (or NPC) that appears to not be a love interest unless a femShep blatantly states to her that Shep is gay or bisexual--or Shep has previously romanced Liara.  (This squadmate would not be interested in maleshep for anything other than friendship.)

These three suggestions would help because:
1) Many people don't seem to want additional romance options in ME3.  We keep on hearing, "Shepard shouldn't be interested in love, she (or he) has a galaxy to save!!!"  Well, with these options, a straight Shepard does not have to worry about being hassled by these two additional romance interests.

2) People who fear being hit on by homosexuals need fear not!  You won't even know the squaddie is gay unless you pursue that squadmate.  Further, the squadmates in question would not be stereotypical in nature; they'd be competent and professional--just like most of your current ones. 

3) Those fearing retconning wouldn't have to worry either.  This is because the characters only carry over as they were saved in ME1 & 2.  If they weren't saved as being in a relationship with Shepard in your past saves, you needn't worry.  There would be no need for 'coming out' or making a big hoopla about why the character is with Shepard; because the character has been with Shepard previously with no problems. 

Arguments this would (hopefully) end:
1) Bisexuality? What's that?
2) Hey! That squaddie is straight!

[jeweledleah]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Its not uncommon to find jsut one particular of a certain sex attractive, while still finding the rest of them polarizing. A recent, and IMO good example, was in that movie that came out last year, The Kids Are Alright, about the lesbian couple. The woman who got into the love affair with the man was just that still, a lesbian. No radical change in sexuality, none whatsoever. Its just that she found him engaging with her and her somewhat neglectful partner inadvertently pushed her into whoever's arms she found comforting. A more mental, and emotional attraction, than a physical one. Very common IRL as well. Attraction to their inside, not their outside, so-to-speak.

Shep's definitely engaging enough and has enough leeway with personality and choices that these characters could suddenly find him/her attractive as a person. When I first picked up ME2, I figured that Miranda was 'manceable by both sexes, but that she was straight. She is "perfect", genetically, so-to-speak, so attraction to women as a whole doesn't seem likely to me. I figured though that after working on FemShep for two years, and becoming her best-buddy-friend-pal and having FemShep get involved in her personal matters with emotional investment, she would start to find Shepard, the individual, as attractive. Alas, no such luck.

I'm just wondering what sort of circumstance could nudge Kaidan in that direction.

granted, I haven't had a  chance to see "The kids are all right" yet - I have a policy of only watching eye candy movies at the movie theater ( its a budgeting issue, but I adore Julianne Moore so I'll be seeing it eventualy), but from what I've read, the character that ends up in an affair quite litteraly has nothing else in her life.  her partner is neglectful her kids are grown, she's uneployed and has a lot of time on her hands.

Kaidan has alliance, there's reaper threat, all those projects for Anderson, plus he seems to be written as a person who deals with his own issues and would rather be a shoulder then ask for one.

I'm just wondering what would be plausible enough for Kaidan to make this particular exception.

@ Ryozaki -   all male irresistible vamp race that created the reapers...  i'm not sure whether to be terrified...or intrigued

@ Earthbornshep. never mind, I misread.  If I'm reading correctly and you're speaking of ME3 specificaly, I agree.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 07 février 2011 - 07:04 .

[earthbornFemShep]

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Earthbornshep. never mind, I misread.  If I'm reading correctly and you're speaking of ME3 specificaly, I agree.

Yeah, I'm only talking about what they should do for ME3.

[Ryzaki]

earthbornFemShep wrote...


Yeah, I'm only talking about what they should do for ME3.

So you mean something similar like with Sky from JE? (For reference those vids I posted earlier.)

[earthbornFemShep]

Ryzaki wrote...

earthbornFemShep wrote...
Yeah, I'm only talking about what they should do for ME3.

So you mean something similar like with Sky from JE? (For reference those vids I posted earlier.)

Um, haven't watched the vids yet.  But based on what has been said, I'm going to tentatively say "yes".  I don't have time to watch them right now (since I'm about to go to bed... it's a ridiculous hour in my timezone right now). 

However, Shepard doesn't have to be a man or woman hater.  Shepard would need to progress the friendship with the character to a certain extent and not be actively romancing anyone else.  Then, Shep would have to dialogue-dance his/her way with the squadmate until the squadmate finally asked why shep spends so much time with him/her.  Then shep could either: reveal interest or not.  If interest was revealed, then the squaddie would have other conversation options open in future convos.  If not, the "friendship" route would be sealed.

EDIT:  After watching two vids, I would say, "yeah, that's about right."  It seems hard to stumble into or upon.  ... and now I'm signing off.

Modifié par earthbornFemShep, 07 février 2011 - 07:58 .

[ElitePinecone]

Sahariel wrote...

What I would like to see is something of a consensus of opinion behind what might actually be possible to implement beyond any reasonable objection. I would define a any reasonable objection to be someone actually having to come out and say "I don't like gays and bis and don't want them in my game". Such a view shows the bigotry for what it is: unreasonable.

If we can compromise on the suggestion I made, no matter how simliar it was to previous iterations of this thread, then we have a much greater chance of seeing it implemented. I doubt many devs pop in here seriously beyond a scan and seeing the same old ground gone over and over. So why not take either my idea or another one, and hash it out so there can be no objections? Maybe as a community we might surprise ourselves.

That's certainly a good idea, although the nature of these forums means we're always going to be thrown off-track by new posters and sub-conversations (like this one) 

The difficulty, obviously, is in finding a proposal that would be acceptable to a sufficient amount of people to make it a viable option for inclusion. This doesn't mean accomodating everybody, obviously, because a certain propotion of people are going to irrationally despise s/s romances even if their presence is almost negligable. I suspect that finding such an option would be a hard task, hence why the main proposal page of this thread contains five or six different ideas with room for more if they ever come up. 

Ultimately Bioware has the final decision and though I agree a united/consensus push for one proposal over the other may be more effective, humans being as they are I don't think we'll ever get one. Hence the debate

Edit:

earthbornFemShep wrote...

this is how I think the problem should be fixed as a compromise to both sides.  

snip

This is a very good idea. I'm not entirely convinced Bioware could (or would) create a purely gay/lesbian romance option, given constraints of time, money and available market - but I'd certainly welcome it if they did. Apart from that, you make some good points and I can't see any reason why rational players wouldn't support (or at least tolerate) it. Rampant prejudice nonwithstanding.  

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 07 février 2011 - 09:24 .

[Space Kookie]

Reading the about 10 last pages of this thread I get the feeling that it is constantly repeating itself.
The homophobes among this community refuse to accept that there should be homosexuality in a game like Mass Effect, that is just all about choices. Somehow, I don't know what goes on in a head of a homophobe =P) they feel bothered by the thought that in a game with the steriotypical straight man as a hero suddently "becomes" gay. I talked to a few friends and they kinda all said that Shepard couldn't be gay because he's tough, which is total BS imo!

The gay-suppoerting community (Let's just call it the "Community of ppl who are actually using their brains and not so freacking intolerant about everything") brings the same arguments again and again and again. But you can't break a brick wall with your fist.

If Bioware won't include homosexuality in ME3 I think the world is just not ready for a gay hero to save the galaxy. After all, there is a gay character in the Mass Effect books (Hendel in the 2nd Book. I'm not through the 3rd one yet so I don't know if he's making an apperence again^^) But I guess the books aren't that popular

That's my opinion on this topic that has unfortuantly been chewed to death. I apologise for any catrastophical language mistakes I might have made as english is not my mother tongue =P

Modifié par Space Kookie, 07 février 2011 - 01:47 .

[Cootie]

I, personally, think the world is most certainly ready for a gay man saving the galaxy. I'd probably just consider Bioware to be cowardly and lose some of the respect and admiration they've induced me with.

[Hairy-Love-Spuds]

Same Sex relationships are okay.



Either Male/Male - Female/Female - Alien/Alien - Etc.



They should be included. You can have blood and guts and people dying left, right and center, But you can't have same sex relationship. So in the normal world it is okay to kill you friends and enemies, and splatter them all over the screen, but not okay to love them.



I say get on with it Bioware, Be brave once more and F*** what the critics say. It was perfectly okay in ME1 for Female shepherd to get it on with other female characters. I for one care for the appreciation that everyone of us are different. And should have the opportunity to take that route of they want to. If you don't want to, you just don't follow that path in game. It's not like were being forced to being good/bad/hetro/Bi/Gay.



My say so over. Thanks

[Fruit of the Doom]

I hope Joker is a gay option in ME3... he is so adorable!

[We Tigers]

Space Kookie wrote...

Reading the about 10 last pages of this thread I get the feeling that it is constantly repeating itself.
The homophobes among this community refuse to accept that there should be homosexuality in a game like Mass Effect, that is just all about choices. Somehow, I don't know what goes on in a head of a homophobe =P) they feel bothered by the thought that in a game with the steriotypical straight man as a hero suddently "becomes" gay. I talked to a few friends and they kinda all said that Shepard couldn't be gay because he's tough, which is total BS imo!

I think you mischaracterize.  As somebody just dropping into the thread, I see that most of the opposition to "make Kaidan bisexual" has to do with the fact that in game so far, he's straight.  Unused audio or Jade Empire or "he seems like he could be bisexual" or whatever don't change the fact that, in the game, he's a straight male love interest for a female Shepard.  Also, I'm very doubtful that Kaidan/Ash will be playable squad members--or even NPCs that Shepard interacts with very much--so I don't think a male Shepard/Kaidan romance could really be shoehorned in effectively at this point.

I wouldn't really care about new gay male romance options in ME3 if I thought they could be executed well, but I feel that Bioware's already written that out as a possibility by having male Shepard clearly not be gay throughout the first two games.  You can say "my Shepard is gay and doesn't do any romances," but since the games really haven't been designed with that in mind so far, it might have the feel of a retcon in ME3.  If all you want is a male romance for male Shepard, fine, you might get it, but I can't see it being well-executed when considering the Shepard the games have presented so far. 

[Ryzaki]

Really? So when has Shepard ever actually expressed interest (that was forced) in females? Or has rejected male's advances?

How exactly is he "clearly not gay?"

Because he hasn't hit on any males? Hell neither have a few of my straight Sheps. I guess they're not straight anymore?

Because I can't think of a time where Shepard was forced to say he found females attractive or wasn't attractive to males. Similar to the Spirit Monk to be truthful. You can spend the whole game not admitting to an attraction to *either* gender (Which my asexual Shepard is grateful for).

I see your point about Kaidan even if I don't agree with it but the talk of Shepard being straight regardless of the player isn't true.

Now frankly I felt it more of a retcon for Tali to suddenly have had "a crush on you all along." Uh...there weren't any hints of that in ME1. Like at all. No blushing, no stammering. No "Ooh thank you Commander!" but apparently regardless of personality (and a renegade Shepard would've been a complete douche to her) she had a crush on him all along? And before I hear the "fratenizing." she apparently isn't shy about admitting it in ME2.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 février 2011 - 11:49 .

[We Tigers]

Ryzaki wrote...
Now frankly I felt it more of a retcon for Tali to suddenly have had "a crush on you all along." Uh...there weren't any hints of that in ME1. Like at all. No blushing, no stammering. No "Ooh thank you Commander!" but apparently regardless of personality (and a renegade Shepard would've been a complete doucheto her) she had a crush on him all along?

That's kinda my point.  I thought the Tali and Garrus romances were some of the less well-executed pieces of ME2; they seemed like pretty hastily assembled fan-service.  I could definitely believe them in concept, given the circumstances--you think someone's dead, and then they're right there in front of you, and maybe some crazy feelings you didn't know you had bloom up--but didn't think they came off that well.  A third-game-only gay male romance option is probably going to come off the same way.  I actually don't think there should be new romances at all in ME3, but I expect Bioware will include some since it's become a standard in their IPs.   Back to your other comments...

Really? So when has Shepard ever actually expressed interest (that was forced) in females? Or has rejected male's advances?

How exactly is he "clearly not gay?"

Because he hasn't hit on any males? Hell neither have a few of my straight Sheps. I guess they're not straight anymore?

Because
I can't think of a time where Shepard was forced to say he found
females attractive or wasn't attractive to males. Similar to the Spirit
Monk to be truthful. You can spend the whole game not admitting to an
attraction to *either* gender (Which my asexual Shepard is grateful
for).

There's no option for male Shepard to express any homosexual interest in a character in either of the first two Mass Effect games.  There are plenty of options for him to express heterosexual interest in female characters.  Like I said, you can say "my Shepard is gay and that's why he doesn't engage in romances" or "he's shy and is building the confidence to make an advance on one of the male squadmates," and that's fine, but you're getting into meta-gaming and motivations external to what the game provides you at that point.  Works for D&D, but I don't think that's what a fully-voiced, central-character-driven RPG like ME is about.   If Bioware can convincingly execute a gay romance in ME3, I'm all for it, but I don't think they can based on what we have so far.

[Ryzaki]

How is it metagaming that Shepard's gay?

And once again my Shep can be straight but not express heterosexual interest in any of the female characters

That's not an impossible concept.

You're pretty much saying if Shep doesn't say it in game it's not true. I guess in that case Shep doesn't wear underwear becuse there's no opportunity to say such in game.

As for Tali and Garrus I thought it was done in a okay manner. It wasn't terrible (it would've been better had that "I had a crush on you all along." bit been left out).

There's no option for male Shepard to express any homosexual interest in
a character in either of the first two Mass Effect games.  There are
plenty of options for him to express heterosexual interest in female
characters.  Like I said, you can say "my Shepard is gay and that's why
he doesn't engage in romances" or "he's shy and is building the
confidence to make an advance on one of the male squadmates," and that's
fine, but you're getting into meta-gaming and motivations external to
what the game provides you at that point.  Works for D&D, but
I don't think that's what a fully-voiced, central-character-driven
RPG like ME is about.   If Bioware can convincingly execute a gay
romance in ME3, I'm all for it, but I don't think they can based on what
we have so far.

It's an RPG.

Fully voiced and Character centric doesn't suddenly mean I can't roleplay. And if I can't it's no longer a RPG. It's a action game. And *points at DA2* so...yeah.

Also motivations that the game doesn't forcefeed you isn't metagaming. Just means I am capable of forming opinions that well the devs don't shove in front of me.

Or hell Shep can just not be interested in any of the male squaddies. He/She doesn't have to be *shy* or anything. Or hell he can think it'll go down badly. (Like you know in real life) So decides to keep it to himself.

Metagaming is using outside knowledge from the game to make decisions even if your character shouldn't be aware of certain factors that you take into account during the decision. Sexuality isn't metagaming.

Metagaming would be saving the base because you know later TIM will die because of it.
Metagaming is saving the Rachni Queen because you get an extra army to fight the Reapers
Metagaming is saving a trinket that you would normally sell because you know it allows you to recruit a certain character.
Metagaming is not doing a character's loyalty for the sheer purpose that they die.

...*wonders if metagaming has morphed into one of those words that people use without knowning the full meaning of like Mary Sue*

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 février 2011 - 12:23 .

[JrayM16]

Not that I agree, but I guess the idea is that lack of option to express homosexual tendency implies lack of it as intended by devs, especially since there is plenty of option for heterosexual tendency.



It makes sense in a way. Anyway, I think homosexual relationships in ME3 are unlikely purely because we haven't had any real ones as of yet. While it kinda sucks, I think Bioware's intention has always been that Shep is straight for the most part, based also off a vague quote I once read.



This doesn't mean we can't think of our Sheps as gay, but I feel we will not get the option to make good on any said feelings.

[Ryzaki]

JrayM16 wrote...

Not that I agree, but I guess the idea is that lack of option to express homosexual tendency implies lack of it as intended by devs, especially since there is plenty of option for heterosexual tendency.

It makes sense in a way. Anyway, I think homosexual relationships in ME3 are unlikely purely because we haven't had any real ones as of yet. While it kinda sucks, I think Bioware's intention has always been that Shep is straight for the most part, based also off a vague quote I once read.

This doesn't mean we can't think of our Sheps as gay, but I feel we will not get the option to make good on any said feelings.

Ah sure but that doesn't make Shep gay/straight is my stance.

Then of course is the fact that much of the romance dialoge for females is just plain disgustingly patronizing. "You want this." Ugh. Give me a barf bag. If that's what the devs wanted me to see well they can keep that.

Ah I agree about the unlikely part though I don't agree about the Shep is straight bit. I mean there would've been no reason for the whole "we didn't have time." nonsense in that case.

I don't think so either. After all Shep's too iconic to be gay and homosexual romances arent rated "PG-13." <_<

Nope gays are only to be hot redheads/blue chicks who sleep with anything and everything.

Excuse me I need to throw up again.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 février 2011 - 12:28 .

[JrayM16]

Ryzaki wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

Not that I agree, but I guess the idea is that lack of option to express homosexual tendency implies lack of it as intended by devs, especially since there is plenty of option for heterosexual tendency.

It makes sense in a way. Anyway, I think homosexual relationships in ME3 are unlikely purely because we haven't had any real ones as of yet. While it kinda sucks, I think Bioware's intention has always been that Shep is straight for the most part, based also off a vague quote I once read.

This doesn't mean we can't think of our Sheps as gay, but I feel we will not get the option to make good on any said feelings.

Ah sure but that doesn't make Shep gay/straight is my stance.

Then of course is the fact that much of the romance dialoge for females is just plain disgustingly patronizing. "You want this." Ugh. Give me a barf bag. If that's what the devs wanted me to see well they can keep that.

Ah I agree about the unlikely part though I don't agree about the Shep is straight bit. I mean there would've been no reason for the whole "we didn't have time." nonsense in that case.

I don't think so either. After all Shep's too iconic to be gay and homosexual romances arent rated "PG-13." <_<

Nope gays are only to be hot redheads/blue chicks who sleep with anything and everything.

Excuse me I need to throw up again.

Well, I didn't agree that one couldn't roleplay Shep as gay, only that it is possible the devs don't want us to.  Can't stop us though.

[Ryzaki]

If the devs really wanted Shepard to be straight and only straight he/she would be appreciative of the opposite sex without prompting. Shep's not though.

[jeweledleah]

Ryzaki wrote...
.

You're pretty much saying if Shep doesn't say it in game it's not true. I guess in that case Shep doesn't wear underwear becuse there's no opportunity to say such in game.

excuse me for interrupting this discussion for a moment, but wasn't this exactly what you were saying, just in an oposite direction?
you know something about LI's never saying that they are NOT into same sex, which means they potentialy could be?

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...

excuse me for interrupting this discussion for a moment, but wasn't this exactly what you were saying, just in an oposite direction?
you know something about LI's never saying that they are NOT into same sex, which means they potentialy could be?

Uh...no I was arguing the same exact thing. Shepard never says he's straight/gay/bi/asexual. Ever. The closest to that is FemShep telling Liara she's only interested in men and then can go ahead and flirt with Samara/Kelly.

As for the boxers thing that was a joke. I'm not saying Shepard does or doesn't wear boxes. Hell he could go commando /shrugs I roleplay that he wears boxers but maybe someone else's Shepard doesn't.

I'm not saying Kaidan isn't straight but he could be something other than what's shown in game. You can infer that he's straight but straight out saying "Oh he's straight and could never be interested in X." is to me just off because he's not your character.

Plus there's always the nice fact that Shep's supposed to be my character so I can make calls like that. Unlike a side character who I'm not playing.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 février 2011 - 12:54 .

[JrayM16]

Ryzaki wrote...

If the devs really wanted Shepard to be straight and only straight he/she would be appreciative of the opposite sex without prompting. Shep's not though.

Well, that's not what I mean.  Bioware doesn't want to force anyone into a romance of any kind.  They apparently have only straight options for the most part though, and based off comments I've seen they may have intended MShep to be straighjt should the player pursue any romance at all.

I know, it sucks.

[Ryzaki]

JrayM16 wrote...

Well, that's not what I mean.  Bioware doesn't want to force anyone into a romance of any kind.  They apparently have only straight options for the most part though, and based off comments I've seen they may have intended MShep to be straighjt should the player pursue any romance at all.

I know, it sucks.

But they apologized for not having male gay romances in ME1 by saying there wasn't enough time.

Eh. I chose to think they don't intend Male Shep to be straight just that they were scared for whateve reason of placing gay romances for males in.

Edit: At this point I'm not even angry about the lack of m/m I just wish the f/f titlation would stop. It irritates me. Combine that with highheels, skintight outfits (Jacob and Miranda are blatant offenders) and clevage in space and I'm wondering when the hell did ME turn into every other ridiculous RPG out there.  I'm just irritated with the "ooh hot chicks!" vibe I'm getting. It's juvenille and they place it on characters where it makes little sense. But ah I'll going to give up soon. Just wait until DA2 is out. I should be gone by then.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 février 2011 - 12:58 .

[We Tigers]

Ryzaki wrote...

It's an RPG.

Fully voiced and Character centric doesn't suddenly mean I can't roleplay. And if I can't it's no longer a RPG. It's a action game. And *points at DA2* so...yeah.

Also motivations that the game doesn't forcefeed you isn't metagaming. Just means I am capable of forming opinions that well the devs don't shove in front of me.

Or hell Shep can just not be interested in any of the male squaddies. He/She doesn't have to be *shy* or anything. Or hell he can think it'll go down badly. (Like you know in real life) So decides to keep it to himself.

Metagaming is using outside knowledge from the game to make decisions even if your character shouldn't be aware of certain factors that you take into account during the decision. Sexuality isn't metagaming.

Metagaming would be saving the base because you know later TIM will die because of it.
Metagaming is saving the Rachni Queen because you get an extra army to fight the Reapers
Metagaming is saving a trinket that you would normally sell because you know it allows you to recruit a certain character.
Metagaming is not doing a character's loyalty for the sheer purpose that they die.

...*wonders if metagaming has morphed into one of those words that people use without knowning the full meaning of like Mary Sue*

I'd argue that playing outside the game's frames by inventing motivations or stories not provided to you is a form of metagaming, but if you want to call it something else, I've got no quarrel with that.  Semantics sidetrack too many discussions.

Plus there's always the nice fact that Shep's supposed to be my character so I can make calls like that. Unlike a side character who I'm not playing.

You can role play however you want, but again, this is not D&D.  You're controlling a character operating within a constructed and fairly rigid set of boundaries developed by Bioware.  I can role play that my Shepard was once a fry cook and that's why he goes out of his way to get Rupert's special ingredients, but that has absolutely no effect on how the game as built plays out.  I look at an RPG with so much structure to it as something more like a choose-your-own-adventure than a full-on blank slate character creation.

For me--and, I think, the majority of Mass Effect players--the role you play is determined by the dialogue options you choose and the actions you take. 

[jeweledleah]

Ryzaki wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

excuse me for interrupting this discussion for a moment, but wasn't this exactly what you were saying, just in an oposite direction?
you know something about LI's never saying that they are NOT into same sex, which means they potentialy could be?

Uh...no I was arguing the same exact thing. Shepard never says he's straight/gay/bi/asexual. Ever. The closest to that is FemShep telling Liara she's only interested in men and then can go ahead and flirt with Samara/Kelly.

As for the boxers thing that was a joke. I'm not saying Shepard does or doesn't wear boxes. Hell he could go commando /shrugs I roleplay that he wears boxers but maybe someone else's Shepard doesn't.

I'm not saying Kaidan isn't straight but he could be something other than what's shown in game. You can infer that he's straight but straight out saying "Oh he's straight and could never be interested in X." is to me just off because he's not your character.

Plus there's always the nice fact that Shep's supposed to be my character so I can make calls like that. Unlike a side character who I'm not playing.

that's the thing.  your Shepard techincaly can be anything you want him or her to be within the confines of available dialogue options of course, my issue is with trying to impose the same idea on non player characters.  I have Shepards with all sorts of personalities and preferences including a Shepard that doesnt fraternize with anyone under his command, ever, even if he feels some sort of atraction.

Tali romance was...strange, though I can kinda see the hero worship start sometimes around ME1 travels, growing through Shepard rescuing Tali, not once but twice.  but that's what always made me feel about icky about romancing her, feels too much like taking advantage.  (I have one Shepard going for her, but he's an unscrupulous womanizer and if Tali didn't die in suicide mission, he would have eventualy broken her heart)

If bioware manages to introduce a well written homosexual romance, I can totaly see myself making another Shepard just for the purpose of experiencing it.  I'm still having very hard time seeing how they can pull off beleivable switch with existing LI's though.

edited to add - the fanservice nature of some of the characters annoys me as well, specificaly skimpy outfits worn into hazardous enviroments (and into firefights in general).  I would hate for M/M romance becomes yet another step in that direction.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 08 février 2011 - 01:03 .

[Ryzaki]

We Tigers wrote...
I'd argue that playing outside the game's frames by inventing motivations or stories not provided to you is a form of metagaming, but if you want to call it something else, I've got no quarrel with that.  Semantics sidetrack too many discussions.

It isn't metagaming. It just isn't. Shepard's sexuality isn't using outside information for another source that he is unaware of to make other decisions. Saying its metagaming is just...off.

If I said the only reason Shepard surived the Threasher maw attack is because he managed to find some mountain range metagaming?

You can role play however you want, but again, this is not D&D.  You're controlling a character operating within a constructed and fairly rigid set of boundaries developed by Bioware.  I can role play that my Shepard was once a fry cook and that's why he goes out of his way to get Rupert's special ingredients, but that has absolutely no effect on how the game as built plays out.  I look at an RPG with so much structure to it as something more like a choose-your-own-adventure than a full-on blank slate character creation.

For me--and, I think, the majority of Mass Effect players--the role you play is determined by the dialogue options you choose and the actions you take. 

Of course it doesn't.That doesn't mean your Shep was not a fry cook (that one could question how was he a fry cook when he enlisted at the age of 18).

As for roleplaying being restricted to D&D: So you mean KOTOR, JE, and Dragon Age are D&D games now? All of BW games are rigidly set. Hell some of the devs (some of the DA ones anyway) encourage making your own backstory that doesn't contradict the game.

And we're not going to agree at all. Our views on RPGs are too different.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 février 2011 - 01:06 .