9243 réponses à ce sujet

[STG]

LiquidGrape wrote...
Move on?

Moving on, Sir/Ma'am.

[The Uncanny]

jlb524 wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

With Jack, there was no flirting or anything, but the way in which she worded some of her lines 'I've been with lots of people.  If you are asking about a boyfriend or a girlfriend, then no' plus her past sexual history with women would lead me to think that the writers added this to show the player that she was a potential f/f option.  Alas, she wasn't, and I have no clue why they added this stuff. 

Oh, but didn't you know? A woman who's into other women is just troubled. So it makes for a brilliantly "edgy" background story!

*slaps self on forehead*

Of course!!!!

Ugh.

"Yeah Shepard. I'm, like, a total emotional mess that only you can fix, you big stud. You can tell how completely broken I am - I once had sex with another woman! So, yeah, I'm like totally edgy and hawt. But I don't actually swing that way now, so it can get you all turned on without your having to actually feel threatened or anything.
Oh yeah, feel my grrrl power!"

Modifié par The Uncanny, 25 juin 2010 - 03:36 .

[Siansonea]

I'd say pretty much any character could be open to same-sex relationships, given that Garrus and Tali are romanceable. That story choice pretty much makes any other story choices perfectly believable by comparison.

Seriously, it was a huge leap to me that those two dextro-amino types would find a clammy pink-skinned simian like Shepard sexy. I just imagine Garrus and Tali smelling really bad, or having peculiar reproductive organs, and them having the same reaction to humans. I don't get the drell thing either, they also seem like they'd be stinky or have weird bits and pieces. Yuck!

For me it is much more believable that in 2185 humanity has become less about identifying and segregating themselves based on their 'sexual preference', and more open to relationships with other humans based on attributes other than gender. I would think that several decades of human contact with asari would accelerate that process.

[silver_sparrow]

The Uncanny wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

With Jack, there was no flirting or anything, but the way in which she worded some of her lines 'I've been with lots of people.  If you are asking about a boyfriend or a girlfriend, then no' plus her past sexual history with women would lead me to think that the writers added this to show the player that she was a potential f/f option.  Alas, she wasn't, and I have no clue why they added this stuff. 

Oh, but didn't you know? A woman who's into other women is just troubled. So it makes for a brilliantly "edgy" background story!

*slaps self on forehead*

Of course!!!!

Ugh.

"Yeah Shepard. I'm, like, a total emotional mess that only you can fix, you big stud. You can tell how completely broken I am - I once had sex with another woman! So, yeah, I'm like totally edgy and hawt. But I don't actually swing that way now, so it can get you all turned on without your having to actually feel threatened or anything.
Oh yeah, feel my grrrl power!"

ive seen a vid on youtube where femshep flirsts with jack but when i tried it the dialog never showed up. if nobody knows what im talking about i will try and look for it on youtube.
Uncanny are you related to cleopatra II?

[Siansonea]

STG wrote...

silver_sparrow wrote...
dude! you argue with people in almost every thread iv'e seen you in so yes I think your a troll.

No I post an opinion and people argue with me. I don't want to start trouble but online forums are free for all to use, regardless if you agree or disagree with a certain topic.

Or is this thread reserved for only those who support it's idea and no one else?

I say welcome to the party, STG. Dissenting voices should be welcomed in any conversation, as such discussions often lead to valuable insights for individuals on all sides of the issue at hand. I think we should all give the respect we wish to receive from others, rather than reflexively reject people who disagree with us.

[jlb524]

The Uncanny wrote...

Ugh.

"Yeah Shepard. I'm, like, a total emotional mess that only you can fix, you big stud. You can tell how completely broken I am - I once had sex with another woman! So, yeah, I'm like totally edgy and hawt. But I don't actually swing that way now, so it can get you all turned on without your having to actually feel threatened or anything.
Oh yeah, feel my grrrl power!"

Hee heee!

The non-cynical side of me wants to believe that the writers put all that in to Jack's story b/c they did intend for her to be a bisexual romance option,  before some suit decided to cut s/s romance content out of ME2.  With s/s romances, it seems the writers do like to hint at the possibility and establish this for a character before the romance can start (so those looking to avoid it can do so and those looking to get some s/s romancing can look out for it). 

This would also explain why Jack's very last conversation with FemShep feels so shockingly abrupt.  Is it possible, at one time, there was a more in depth conversation that was sloppily replaced by, '****** off!  No girls club for me!' once the f/f romance was cut?  Compare her last coversation with FemShep (where I don't think Shepard can even reply) to Miranda's or Tali's.  Shepard still gets to have a pretty friendly and extensive conversation with them.

Or, it's just that they added it 'cuz lesbian sex is cool and edgy, but serious lesbian relationships are not innocent enough for their PG-13 game!

[Christmas Ape]

Siansonea II wrote...

I'd say pretty much any character could be open to same-sex relationships, given that Garrus and Tali are romanceable. That story choice pretty much makes any other story choices perfectly believable by comparison.

Seriously, it was a huge leap to me that those two dextro-amino types would find a clammy pink-skinned simian like Shepard sexy. I just imagine Garrus and Tali smelling really bad, or having peculiar reproductive organs, and them having the same reaction to humans. I don't get the drell thing either, they also seem like they'd be stinky or have weird bits and pieces. Yuck!

For me it is much more believable that in 2185 humanity has become less about identifying and segregating themselves based on their 'sexual preference', and more open to relationships with other humans based on attributes other than gender. I would think that several decades of human contact with asari would accelerate that process.

If I may direct you to my signature, I think you'll see you're not alone.
The second part. Not the bit cribbed from Grunt.
Obviously.

[Siansonea]

Here's my take on same-sex inclusion in Mass Effect.

The whole point of the game is that you have your own Shepard. Yours, and no one else's. Here's a metaphor: Shepard is like a drawing in a coloring book, where you can fill in all the areas with whichever color you choose. Let's say all the various ways you can customize your character represent crayons. They give you a lot of crayons! You can be male or female, any ethnicity, any first name, a poor Earth kid, a colonist, a spacer, a complete jerk, a paragon of virtue, and you can have your very own custom face. You can be friends with people, ignore them, or harass them. You can make decisions that affect the future of entire species. You just can't get busy with a human of your own gender.

Not giving players the option to explore same-sex romances is akin to taking away one of the crayons the players could use to color in their character. And for what purpose? I'm not buying any of the Marketingspeak that we've heard from Hudson and Muzyka on this issue, we have dismissed that claim. Yes, some individuals might go into a tizzy if they learn that their Shepard could be a Gay Homosexual OMG! But dumbing down an intellectual property to placate such people is not the action of a forward-thinking enterprise, in my opinion. If you haven't secured those players' loyalty to the franchise in other ways, then you haven't designed a compelling game franchise.

Same-sex romance takes nothing away from the game, only adds to it. It is merely another option for creating a unique Shepard.

[Metal Angel]

I am not gay and I would probably never play through a gay romance quest in ME... (maybe an f/f b/c I'm immature like that) but I am all for it being an option in the game. Honestly I think you should be able to at least flirt with any significant character in the game and whether or not it turns into a romance would be entirely based on how that character responds to your flirting... so saying the right things would make a difference. Some characters would be super easy and some would be hard... maybe some would be easy hetero romances but difficult to ****** romance and vise versa.

[jlb524]

Siansonea II wrote...

Yes, some individuals might go into a tizzy if they learn that their Shepard could be a Gay Homosexual OMG!

This is one attitude I just do not understand.  My Shepard could be straight but she's not, as I decided she was a lesbian.   She also could be a noble soldier and a Spacer/War Hero type, but I decided she was a biotic user and an Earthborn/Torfan type with a troubled past. 

My Shepard is defined in the way I want her to be, and the existence of other possible options (heterosexuality, Spacer/War Hero) that other people could choose for their Shepards doesn't invalidate my Shepard or change her in any way.

If anything, RPing your straight Shepard turn down homosexual advances would make them even straighter.

[Siansonea]

jlb524 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Yes, some individuals might go into a tizzy if they learn that their Shepard could be a Gay Homosexual OMG!

This is one attitude I just do not understand.  My Shepard could be straight but she's not, as I decided she was a lesbian.   She also could be a noble soldier and a Spacer/War Hero type, but I decided she was a biotic user and an Earthborn/Torfan type with a troubled past. 

My Shepard is defined in the way I want her to be, and the existence of other possible options (heterosexuality, Spacer/War Hero) that other people could choose for their Shepards doesn't invalidate my Shepard or change her in any way.

If anything, RPing your straight Shepard turn down homosexual advances would make them even straighter.

We don't understand it because it's not rational, it's based on emotions that the individual can't resolve themselves. It's a visceral reaction, based on deep-seated anxieties and insecurities, or based on social conditioning.

[elearon1]

>>Seriously, it was a huge leap to me that those two dextro-amino types would find a clammy pink-skinned simian like Shepard sexy. I just imagine Garrus and Tali smelling really bad, or having peculiar reproductive organs, and them having the same reaction to humans. I don't get the drell thing either, they also seem like they'd be stinky or have weird bits and pieces. Yuck!<<



Ignoring the fact that in most sci-fi material any character who is designed in a sexually attractive fashion is compatible with the protagonist or any other sexually attractive character - there will certainly be those in either species open minded and just as importantly - curious - enough to give this a shot. I could see Tali doing it, for example, out of curiosity mixed with a strong sense of companionship. *I* would be willing to give such a thing a try for much the same reason; curiosity/sense of intimacy. (and for much the same reason, under the right circumstances, I might have sex with a guy)



As for smelling bad and having odd sexual organs, the later is quite likely and the former a matter of taste. Likelihood is these different species would have body odors unique to their kind - though how noticeable might be dependent upon the person and how repulsive or attractive or neutral would certainly be a matter of personal taste. Strange sexual organs? Again, likely, but again whether you found them attractive or not would be dependent upon how alien they were, how willing you are to experiment, and what you find attractive; hell there are plenty of human sexual organs I've seen which did not appeal to me, so in the end "being alien" isn't necessarily going to be a turn off. Indeed, learning the ins and outs - as it were - of an alien's sexual anatomy and practices could be an incredible adventure in and of itself. (I'd know that just experiencing and experimentation with the differences between us would keep me interested for a long time)



Presumably anyone open minded enough to have sex with another species is going to be willing to risk and see past (or really try to see past) these differences. It does get me that they could see past species but not gender (purposefully choosing the word gender and not sex here) - or for that matter that other species should necessarily have the same taboos against same gender encounters. (homosexuality has not always been a taboo for humans, nor - for that matter - particularly uncommon among them. Our history and religions have created those taboos and there is no reason to assume another species would have gone through the same.)



Not to mention, with the likelihood that pornography is no harder to get one's hands on in the future than it is today, once can assume that an interested alien species would take the time to find nude pictures of the object of his or her affection. (Quarians, of course, would pose a problem - but chances are they'd be one of the very few which would) Thus there is no need for one to go into the encounter blind.

[jlb524]

Siansonea II wrote...

We don't understand it because it's not rational, it's based on emotions that the individual can't resolve themselves. It's a visceral reaction, based on deep-seated anxieties and insecurities, or based on social conditioning.

Yeah, you are right.  It's sad.

[elearon1]

Nadia73 wrote...

I am all for having Miranda and Jack...where do I sign?

I'd be all over Miranda if she were a lesbian; I like strong women.  But I think Tali would make for a better long term relationship, as her culture seems focused on long term exclusive relationships.  (considering the dangers of even coming into physical contact with members of their own race and thus how rare it has to be and how serious one needs to be about doing it) She is still young, though, and a bit impetuous, so there would be a danger she'd leave you for one of her own when she matured more. 

[Siansonea]

Since we're sharing, I am a straight female.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/kissing.png[/smilie]

I'm of the "Kill Tali As Soon As Possible" school of thought, she just doesn't appeal to me in any way. If I was into the ladies, I'd want them to not be encased in glorified Tupperware.

I would prefer for my bisexual character Simone Shepard to have a relationship with someone like Miranda, or to continue her relationship with Liara from ME1. I do think alien quasi-homosexual relationships are a bit of a cheat/copout, but it's better than the Homosexuality Does Not Exist credo that we currently have in the ME universe.

For my bisexual male character Martín, I'd like for Kaidan Alenko to be a romantic option, or a new human character. Thane doesn't appeal to me from a character standpoint, plus there's the complication of his health situation.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Cootie wrote...

Which character made you feel some definite (******)sexual tension while playing through Mass Effect 2 and how did you feel when you realised that your intergalactic gamefiles were incompatible?

Honestly, I've got to go with Kaidan, here. His Horizon personal-business speech (before the Cerberus bit) was, as far as I was reading it, an emotional response to the loss of a perceived romantic relationship - in one conversation tree MShep gets told that "thinking you were gone...it was like losing a limb." To me, this is not something said to someone that's thought of as just a commanding officer, even if Virmire did end in a gigantic clusterfsck and there was emotional bonding all over the place and then woohoo, Reaper event averted to solidify that.

I don't know. Maybe ME1 Kaidan was the equivalent to FemShep and Jacob, and just sounded like he was being teasingly coy with either Shep, and they're carrying on with that. Still, to my ears the man sounds like he's more than a little interested, personally, in MShep. I will be immensely disappointed if there's no means of resolving that in ME3. (I can't imagine that any ME2 DLC, even one that did include m/m romance options, would do anything more than let MShep put Kaidan's pic in the photo frame. Which I'd like. Hell, even Anderson has a picture of Kaidan on his desk. Never Ashley...always Kaidan. My MShep doesn't even get a pic of the Normandy 1 - no frame at all. <_<)

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 26 juin 2010 - 12:58 .

[FataliTensei]

Siansonea II wrote...

I'd say pretty much any character could be open to same-sex relationships, given that Garrus and Tali are romanceable. That story choice pretty much makes any other story choices perfectly believable by comparison.

Seriously, it was a huge leap to me that those two dextro-amino types would find a clammy pink-skinned simian like Shepard sexy. I just imagine Garrus and Tali smelling really bad, or having peculiar reproductive organs, and them having the same reaction to humans. I don't get the drell thing either, they also seem like they'd be stinky or have weird bits and pieces. Yuck!

For me it is much more believable that in 2185 humanity has become less about identifying and segregating themselves based on their 'sexual preference', and more open to relationships with other humans based on attributes other than gender. I would think that several decades of human contact with asari would accelerate that process.

Not to mention the sex can cause anaphylactic shock if Tali, Garrus or Shepard exchange any....fluids:sick:

Modifié par FataliTensei, 26 juin 2010 - 02:16 .

[Syledir]

Just a few gay or bisexual heroes:

Jack Harkness and John Hart from the TV Series Torchwood; Willow and Tara from the TV Series Buffy; Colossus from the comic series of Ultimate X-Men; Batwoman from you know where. Jimmy Hopkins from the game Canis Canim Edit (only if you decide to play it that way); Sparrow from the game Fable 2 (again only if you decide to play it that way)



Cootie wrote...



Which character made you feel some definite (******)sexual tension while playing through Mass Effect 2 and how did you feel when you realised that your intergalactic gamefiles were incompatible?



I have to go with Tali here. NPCs are very limited in their behaviour, because there is only so much space on a disc. That is why they have a tell that shows that they are romantically interested. Female NPCs have a certain move that looks a little like swaying in a sexy way. Don't know how to describe it, that is where my English shows its limits, sorry. However, Tali moves like that in front of a femshep, usually an indication that you have successfully unlocked the romance with said NPC, but alas nothing happened afterwards.



Apart from that I would say Ashley, Miranda, Kaidan and Jacob. They are a lot closer to real lesbians and gays than the stereotypes we usually have to see in movies, TV, blablabla.

[tyddrwsau]

elearon1 wrote...

Presumably anyone open minded enough to have sex with another species is going to be willing to risk and see past (or really try to see past) these differences. It does get me that they could see past species but not gender (purposefully choosing the word gender and not sex here) - or for that matter that other species should necessarily have the same taboos against same gender encounters. (homosexuality has not always been a taboo for humans, nor - for that matter - particularly uncommon among them. Our history and religions have created those taboos and there is no reason to assume another species would have gone through the same.)

I couldn't agree more with the points you've made in this thread. One thing I'd add with respect to this paragraph is that the gender expectations for these alien cultures aren't going to be a match with the pink simians from Earth, either. What these aliens consider desirable gender-related traits and norms would have to vary. What is sexy and "masculine" or "feminine" for a Turian? 

My dissatisfaction with the official wish-wash rejections of S/S in Mass Effect is powerfully amplified by this issue. Q: "Why are there no same-sex romances in ME?"  A: "It's just not that kind of story, third person narrative and all. But you can shag your pick of two lizards and a chickenwoman if you want to, that's cool, right?"

[elearon1]

>>the gender expectations for these alien cultures aren't going to be a match with the pink simians from Earth, either.<<



I absolutely agree and I considered mentioning this in my post, but decided it was too involved a topic and not one I wanted to put energy into at the time. Is it okay for aliens to be so similar to humans psychologically in fiction? For the sake of enjoyment and allowing us as humans to relate to the characters it can be very important - the writers want us to feel for these squad members and be upset when they die, but if we can't even understand their psychology this becomes far more difficult. And yet, it is sometimes nice to see alien races with very different ways of thinking and behaving, influenced by the very different cultures and worlds they grew up in. I don't know if a reasonable balance between the two is possible.



>>But you can shag your pick of two lizards and a chickenwoman if you want to, that's cool, right?"<<



Yeah, but I'd shag that chicken woman at the drop of a hat - at least I would if she were into girls and not breaking my heart by flirting and then ignoring me.

[Boombox]

Siansonea II wrote...

I'd say pretty much any character could be open to same-sex relationships, given that Garrus and Tali are romanceable. That story choice pretty much makes any other story choices perfectly believable by comparison.

Seriously, it was a huge leap to me that those two dextro-amino types would find a clammy pink-skinned simian like Shepard sexy. I just imagine Garrus and Tali smelling really bad, or having peculiar reproductive organs, and them having the same reaction to humans. I don't get the drell thing either, they also seem like they'd be stinky or have weird bits and pieces. Yuck!

For me it is much more believable that in 2185 humanity has become less about identifying and segregating themselves based on their 'sexual preference', and more open to relationships with other humans based on attributes other than gender. I would think that several decades of human contact with asari would accelerate that process.

Agree. So much agree! I'll stick to romancing humans, I think.
It's actually a bit insulting that something like that is more acceptable than s/s romance.

[elearon1]

>>It's actually a bit insulting that something like that is more acceptable than s/s romance.<<



Yeah, but those are heterosexual aliens, duh! ::rolls eyes::

[Sajon1]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Shavon wrote...

More importantly, I think Male Shepard needs a turn. There should be a gay romance for MShep in ME3, without having to mod.

As well as a bar on the Hanar homeworld occupied by Drell Chippendales.

hahahahah