9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Hm...I was making that mistake as well Athro. If I was to play a femshep game Garrus wouldn't be interested in her sexually because she never wouldn't made a pass at him. He never would've thought about her in that manner. But once Shep opened the door with her suggestion he thought about it and found he didn't find the thought of them being in a relationship that repulsive.



Thanks Athro. You gave me valuable insight. (And I'm not being sarcastic.)

[Ryzaki]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

And Tali? I agree, that she did not express any interest in either gender Shep in ME, and although, in ME2, I felt that particular romance felt the most genuine, how does she relate to FemShep for this topic?

Supposedly it cuts off right where Dude Shep can initate the romance. 

Oddly everything is nearly exactly the same up to that point. 

[Siansonea]

EVERYONE'S points are based on their interpretations on the characters. And everyone's perception is subjective. You, Jeweledleah, seem very angry at the idea of existing characters being expanded to include same-sex romances. You seem to think that it is breaking the game's continuity, and that it takes a massive leap in logic or a complete 'retcon' to explain why an existing character is now open to a same sex relationship when they were not previously. You have tried to use metagame factors like 'flags' to illustrate your point, you've responded in very argumentative terms toward other people's points, all the while proclaiming that people are ignoring or don't understand the points you are trying to make. We understand what you're saying, we do. We're not ignoring your points. But many of us feel that you have ideas about gender and sexuality that don't reflect real-world scenarios that we've personally encountered. I have known several ostensibly heterosexual people of both genders who have discovered relatively late in life that they are, in fact, bisexual. This happens in the real world, so it could happen in a video game. It's not game breaking, it's not "going the Talimance route", or anything like that. And in any case, it's all speculation and suggestion, in all likelihood BioWare already knows what they're going to do with regards to same sex romances, and if past games give us any clue, it will likely be next to nothing. That is unfortunate for those of us who would like to see Shepard have these options, but until we know for certain what will or will not be included, we aren't giving up hope completely.

[jeweledleah]

because him never showing attraction to mshep in non-moded playthroughs is not enough of an indication. they went through so much together without becoming sexual, but later he changes his mind?



Every shepard is unique shepard. but every NPC has the same parameters in every game. you can pick and chose which of the parameters manifest, but you're asking to add new parameters. 2 games later.

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...

because him never showing attraction to mshep in non-moded playthroughs is not enough of an indication. they went through so much together without becoming sexual, but later he changes his mind?

Every shepard is unique shepard. but every NPC has the same parameters in every game. you can pick and chose which of the parameters manifest, but you're asking to add new parameters. 2 games later.

They went through a lot yeah but some people have this thing called you know timing. They don't admit their feelings when there's explosions going on and people need to stay focused instead of going "lolwut? You have feelings for me?" 

And yeah people do change their minds about people and what they might mean to that person. People have pointed out how to you constantly in this thread. 

Yeah we are. So? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 février 2011 - 08:09 .

[Praetor Knight]

Non-moded seems to be key, IMHO.



Just introduce new LIs for Shep to have these relationships available.

[Siansonea]

jeweledleah wrote...

because him never showing attraction to mshep in non-moded playthroughs is not enough of an indication. they went through so much together without becoming sexual, but later he changes his mind?

Every shepard is unique shepard. but every NPC has the same parameters in every game. you can pick and chose which of the parameters manifest, but you're asking to add new parameters. 2 games later.

I'm actually on your side in one respect: I also think that every NPC has the same parameters in every game, that Kaidan is Kaidan in every game, Ash is Ash, Garrus is Garrus, etc. That said, I think there is quite a bit of room to expand existing characters without contradicting the characters we've come to know. Look how different Liara is as a result of Shepard's death and her dealings with Cerberus and the Shadow Broker. ME1 Liara wouldn't recognize ME2 Liara. Tali, Garrus and Wrex are all in different places in their lives when we see them in ME2. With Ashley and Kaidan, we only get a glimpse of who they are 'now' on Horizon, we have no idea what has transpired since we last saw them on the Normandy SR1 before the Collectors destroyed it. Time passing means character development can happen, and that character development could include some surprising revelations about them.

[jeweledleah]

and round and round and round we go. you all keep hoping and I'll keep hoping and hopefuly Bioware will make their choices based on their vision.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 13 février 2011 - 08:13 .

[Ryzaki]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Non-moded seems to be key, IMHO.

Just introduce new LIs for Shep to have these relationships available.

I have no problem with the latter. At this point I would prefer it becaue I doubt many of the latter characters will be important because of the fact that they can die and ME3 has to be newb friendly. 

[Maugrim]

jeweledleah wrote...

then you are not stating your point clearly.

because apparently, regardless of your sexual preferences, regardless of your prior relationship, you can become sexually attracted to each other. somehow.

Here is were you are wrong summed up in about 5 seconds.  It should be easy enough for even you to understand and it's in video form!

First of all yes sexuality is, potentially, fluid.  What someone is isn't necessarily what someone will always be.  Some people never change, some do it once and some refuse to pick a 'team' and go with the flow. Some people might be straight except for that one person.  And guess what there isn't even agreement within the LGBTTQQ..(I forget all the potential letters)community so you sure as hell don't get to set the definitions down either.

Secondly just because someone is gay/bi doensn't mean they are required to profess the immeadately love and attraction to all other of the same sex.  Maybe the Alliance is homophobic as some have suggested, maybe they don't like dealing with ignorant attitudes like yours.  There are any number of valid reasons for a LI not to have expressed interested towards a same sex Shep.

Thirdly no your opinion on this doesn't matter.  Yes you are perfectly fine to have it, your just wrong.  I could list the studies but I know you wouldn't bother to read them.

None or very few of us are saying this must happen, just that it could.  Your wrong.  Here is another video demonstration.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 13 février 2011 - 08:16 .

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...

and round and round and round we go. you all keep hoping and I'll keep hoping and hopeful Bioware will make their choices based on their vision.

And you keep recanting the same things over an over while ignoring all points made. But there you go right? 

I thought you said you were done? 

Edit: makenzieshepard: could you list them for me? I'd be interested in reading them. I'll probably end up doing a speech about human sexuality anyways.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 février 2011 - 08:15 .

[Athro]

jeweledleah wrote...

because him never showing attraction to mshep in non-moded playthroughs is not enough of an indication. they went through so much together without becoming sexual, but later he changes his mind?

Every shepard is unique shepard. but every NPC has the same parameters in every game. you can pick and chose which of the parameters manifest, but you're asking to add new parameters. 2 games later.

As was stated by Bioware at the time, they didn't proceed with the gay storyline because they didn't have the resources to commit to it at the time. So just because Kaidan didn't approach Shep in ME1 doesn't mean that he's straight.

And as has been pointed out, the conversation on Horizon is such that it can be read as being him telling Shepard that he missed Shep in a more intimate way. Now that is pure personal interpretation, but because that interpretation is possible, it opens the way for BW to revisit an m/m storyline in ME3 with Kaidan if they want to.

As I have also said before, this would be the smarter decision on BW's part because it requires less resources than creating and developing a new character. That has been the crux of the argument for Kaidan - it's established and easier for BW to develop. If BW wants to they can create a new m/m option if they want and people will be happy with that. I don't think many of us are locked to the idea that it MUST be Kaidan. It's simply that Kaidan is a solid and logical option to take.

There is nothing that locks him into being a straight character. And as has already been stated, it is likely that BW have already made their decision at this point, but those of us who want to see an m/m romance are going to keep fighting the fight until the game comes out.

C

[Siansonea]

Cootie wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I personally don't care what is discussed in this thread, as long as it relates to the topic. Sure, sometimes the conversation will focus on specific characters for awhile, but that's part of the subject we're talking about. Nothing wrong with that as long as it all remains civil. Disagreement is fine, even encouraged, if it can be carried out with mutual respect on the part of all parties involved.

Some existing characters lend themselves to expansion to include same sex romances more than others, I think we all agree about that. As people have stated above, Kaidan is in many ways an obvious choice for male/male romance, and I would suggest that Ashley is an obvious choice for female/female romance for many of the same reasons. To me, the main advantage of expanding those two characters is that it would automatically 'deepen' the romance connection, simply by virtue of the fact that the LI is at that point literally the squad mate that Shepard has known the longest. Kaidan is on the Normandy with Shepard from the beginning, and Ashley comes along during the 'routine shakedown mission' on Eden Prime, before Shepard has even met Garrus, Liara, Tali or Wrex. The existing Kaidan/Ashley romances, as well as the Liara romance, have the most emotional weight in the game because of how far back Shepard's history goes with them. Implementing new same-sex options in ME3 (with a very different buildup than the parallel opposite-sex romance continuation, obviously) seems pretty logical to me. Personally, I found the alien romances with Tali and Garrus much more of a stretch. But BioWare did a decent job giving those fans what they wanted without antagonizing the people who didn't want it. I think they could do the same or better with Kaidan/Ashley same-sex romances if they put their minds to it.

Oh, goodness, am I glad to see you again!
I have been sitting here in silence for quite some time thinking of how to voice my opinion, and you put it perfectly. Thank you for making my job easier.

Thanks! Doesn't seem to have had any effect on the conflagration, but if there's one thing I've learned in my many years on this earth, it's that if one is looking for a fight, one will find it.

[jeweledleah]

yeah I'm done now. I've been accused of homophobia, so it must be true, which means anything I say on a subject is invalid.

[Maugrim]

It's 12 am here Ryazaki and I don't have anything right at hand but I could probably dig some stuff up tomorrow or so if you'd still like.

EDIT: Has anyone ever been on the Snopes forums?  They have a rule , rule number six that says if someone states they are leaving a thread/ board and then keep returning they kick them anyways for being drama queens.  I think this should be implemented here as well.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 13 février 2011 - 08:20 .

[Siansonea]

jeweledleah wrote...

and round and round and round we go. you all keep hoping and I'll keep hoping and hopefuly Bioware will make their choices based on their vision.

No one is saying otherwise. We all know this. To whatever extent we can influence that vision, we seek to do so. Time will tell if our efforts have had any effect, but we should not be censured for trying to make our preferences known.

[Ryzaki]

makenzieshepard wrote...

It's 12 am here Ryazaki and I don't have anything right at hand but I could probably dig some stuff up tomorrow or so if you'd still like.

Ah sure PM it to me. 

It's 3AM where I'm at but I don't have school tommorow so /shrugs

Edit: 

EDIT: Has anyone ever been on the Snopes forums? They have a rule , rule number six that says if someone states they are leaving a thread/ board and then keep returning they kick them anyways for being drama queens. I think this should be implemented here as well.

What's Snopes? And yeah that's a good rule because it's usally true. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 février 2011 - 08:24 .

[Siansonea]

jeweledleah wrote...

yeah I'm done now. I've been accused of homophobia, so it must be true, which means anything I say on a subject is invalid.

People throw that word around. You shouldn't take it to heart.

[Athro]

jeweledleah wrote...

yeah I'm done now. I've been accused of homophobia, so it must be true, which means anything I say on a subject is invalid.

Wait. Where did anyone accuse you of homophobia, exactly?

[Praetor Knight]

makenzieshepard wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

then you are not stating your point clearly.

because apparently, regardless of your sexual preferences, regardless of your prior relationship, you can become sexually attracted to each other. somehow.

Here is were you are wrong summed up in about 5 seconds.  It should be easy enough for even you to understand and it's in video form!

First of all yes sexuality is, potentially, fluid.  

Well... for me you are

[Maugrim]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

then you are not stating your point clearly.

because apparently, regardless of your sexual preferences, regardless of your prior relationship, you can become sexually attracted to each other. somehow.

Here is were you are wrong summed up in about 5 seconds.  It should be easy enough for even you to understand and it's in video form!

First
of all yes sexuality is, potentially, fluid.  What someone is isn't
necessarily what someone will always be.  Some people never change,

Well... for me you are

'

Oh hai look what happens when we don't  do a biased edit!

po·ten·tial  (p-tnshl)adj.1. Capable of being but not yet in existence; latent: a potential problem.2. Having possibility, capability, or power.3. Grammar Of, relating to, or being a verbal construction with auxiliaries such as may or can; for example, it may snow.n.1. The inherent ability or capacity for growth, development, or coming into being.2. Something possessing the capacity for growth or development.3. Grammar A potential verb form.4. Physics
The work required to move a unit of positive charge, a magnetic pole,
or an amount of mass from a reference point to a designated point in a
static electric, magnetic, or gravitational field; potential energy.5. See potential difference.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 13 février 2011 - 08:26 .

[Athro]

rynluna wrote...

Athro wrote...
Why are you so threatened by the idea of Kaidan being bi? Because your arguments are pretty emotional.

C.

Hmm..I've seen this so many times before with people who roleplay their Shepards in hetero relationships with certain characters.  They can never get over the fact that their straight Kaidan/Tali/Ash/Jack/etc can be open to homosexual romance in another person's game. 

No matter how many times you insist that there is nowhere in the game's history that these characters have stated they are straight, they still won't budge from their viewpoint.  If gay Shepard can propose a relationship to Kaidan, it's not like Kaidan will start acting like a stereotypical gay guy that likes going to raves with glowsticks in hand and screams, "Omg!  Don't hit meee!!!" out in the battlefield.

Heehee - I know it's a gross stereotype, but I definitely would find such a camp NPC HILARIOUS in game if done right. As long as he pronounces it "Oh Em Gee!"

C

[Praetor Knight]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Oh hai look what happens when we don't  do a biased edit!

Bias is an inclination to present or hold a partial perspective at the expense of (possibly equally valid) alternatives. Bias can come in many forms.

Too much here IMHO.