9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

Oh hai look what happens when we don't  do a biased edit!

Bias is an inclination to present or hold a partial perspective at the expense of (possibly equally valid) alternatives. Bias can come in many forms.

Too much here IMHO.

It's a support thread. What did you expect? 

[Praetor Knight]

Ryzaki wrote...

It's a support thread. What did you expect? 

TBH, R-E-S-P-E-C-T of other plausiblities and so on.

Edit: grr... link

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 13 février 2011 - 08:39 .

[Ryzaki]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It's a support thread. What did you expect? 

TBH, R-E-S-P-E-C-T of other plausiblities and so on.

I saw no disrespect.

I saw a lot of repetive arguements (that I contributed to) but no blatant name calling. 

[ElitePinecone]

Just a reminder to refrain from getting too personal.



The last 20 pages or so have been a little hectic.

[Maugrim]

Yeah sorry I don't support the whole Jedi Truth/From a Certain Point of View movement. Belief ≠ fact. If you want to believe that gravity doesn't exist that's fine by me but I'm not jumping off the mountain with ya.  And if someone puts forth an factually erroneous opinion as a real fact on a public message board I will, if I want to at least, call them out on it.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 13 février 2011 - 08:44 .

[Praetor Knight]

Ryzaki wrote...

I saw a lot of repetive arguements (that I contributed to) but no blatant name calling. 

I've been apart of a few repetitive threads, and interpretation of what is written is always open for better or for worse, IMHO.

makenzieshepard wrote...

If you want to believe that gravity doesn't exist that's fine by me but I'm not jumping off the mountain with ya.

Exactly, so why make ME LI's jump?

Just introduce more characters, IMHO.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 13 février 2011 - 08:46 .

[Maugrim]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

If you want to believe that gravity doesn't exist that's fine by me but I'm not jumping off the mountain with ya.

Exactly, so why make ME LI's jump?

Just introduce more characters, IMHO.

Prove to me they are 100% heterosexual.  Not that they are probably, are not, 100%. Word of god is acceptable. No them saying there are no homosexual romance isn't proof. We are still waiting.

We argue they "may" be and this argument is currently plausible.  The "can't" be argument is as of now, incorrect.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 13 février 2011 - 08:51 .

[Athro]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

If you want to believe that gravity doesn't exist that's fine by me but I'm not jumping off the mountain with ya.

Exactly, so why make ME LI's jump?

Just introduce more characters, IMHO.

I'm happy either way - I just think that Kaidan is a much more efficient solution that addresses a lot of the excuses for not doing an m/m romance.

Personally, I'd totally dig Big Ben over Kaidan.

C

Modifié par Athro, 13 février 2011 - 08:46 .

[Maugrim]

Athro wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

If you want to believe that gravity doesn't exist that's fine by me but I'm not jumping off the mountain with ya.

Exactly, so why make ME LI's jump?

Just introduce more characters, IMHO.

I'm happy either way - I just think that Kaidan is a much more efficient solution that addresses a lot of the excuses for not doing an m/m romance.

Personally, I'd totally dig Big Ben over Kaidan.

C

I'll admit I'd love to have Ashley and a few of my Sheps would drop kick Liara to get to her but overall I'm pretty satisfied with what I've got.  I just feel for anyone that wants a M/M romance at this point.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 13 février 2011 - 08:51 .

[Ryzaki]

Hopefully Big Ben won't be as...calm. Or have such a odd hairstyle. I hope he's a badass.
though yes my sig pretty much says how I feel on the subject.

Mr. Sniper is very much wanted.

Hopefully he'll be renegadish (in the Garrus way not the Miranda way). And huggable. And just a little bit woobish.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 février 2011 - 08:49 .

[Siansonea]

I think Big Ben would be a good m/m choice, but we don't know at what point in the game he shows up. If the Reaper's assault on Earth happens at the beginning of ME3, it could work, but if it's too far into the game, it would probably feel rushed.

[Praetor Knight]

OK, for the record since I took the plunge into this thread very, very late; I'm fine if such romance options exist for Shep of both genders to explore.

Even if I'll only watch the very beginning of their dialogue on youtube.

makenzieshepard wrote...

Prove to me they are 100% heterosexual.

Not that they are probably.

Are not, 100%.

Word of god is acceptable.

No them saying there are no homosexual romance isn't proof.

We are still waiting.

And wait you shall, cuz who has the answer? <_<

Athro wrote...

I'm happy either way - I just think that Kaidan is a much more efficient solution that addresses a lot of the excuses for not doing an m/m romance.

Personally, I'd totally dig Big Ben over Kaidan.

C

I dunno if that would be the most efficient, because he might not survive Virmire, which is partly why I mention to just start from scratch for Shep with such relationships.

[Ryzaki]

Siansonea II wrote...

I think Big Ben would be a good m/m choice, but we don't know at what point in the game he shows up. If the Reaper's assault on Earth happens at the beginning of ME3, it could work, but if it's too far into the game, it would probably feel rushed.

Ah true. 

Joker's my backup! 

[ElitePinecone]

I agree, Praetor, that there are some problems with integrating characters who may have not survived into ME3. This being said, Bioware have already promised that the mShep/Ashley and femShep/Kaidan romances will be featured in the game at some level (whether they turn up in DLC is another question).



This is mostly why I don't think we'll see many of the ME2 squadmates return in a large role (if they return at all, I'd wager it'd be as a cameo).



If s/s romances were going to be implemented at all (and I've found it pays to be pessimistic), I think for reasons of simplicity and utility BW would preference new characters over familiar ones. The canon and story problems might be debatable, but it would be far simpler to just start with a clean slate, so to speak, with new characters.



As for Big Ben - not to ruin the expectations, but how do we know he's even a featured character at all? For all we know he could be a random grunt on Earth who is never actually featured at all

[catabuca]

I've initiated much of the discussion about Kaidan recently, so I'd like to take a moment to explain why I participate in this thread and what is most important to me.

There are, as I see it, three issues here:

1) Currently, fShep is able to identify as lesbian, but mShep is not able to identify as gay. You can roleplay either as gay, but only fShep is able to actively participate in a relationship appropriate to her sexual orientation. This is an offensive unbalance and one that this thread, and its namesake group, seeks to redress. This is the primary goal of this thread.

2) This thread has also been concerned with the way the ME team have handled the situation since the release of the game. The way questions have been answered by some of them has been very unsatisfactory to some, and been viewed to be obfuscating at best, downright lies and spin at worst. It is this seemingly confusing and hurtful attitude that has upset a lot of people. This thread acts as a place of support for those who are offended by these actions.

3) During discussions of how we would like s/s (and specifically m/m - since that is the option most obviously missing, see point 1) implemented in the game, and discussions of how we believe it would make most sense (based on storytelling, resources, marketing, gameplay, etc) for BW to implement them, we naturally bring up our own preferences for specific characters.

Regardless of what certain people may say, no one here would pretend to be happy if a new bi male squad mate was introduced for mShep, as long as that character was given equal weighting and significance as all other LIs. Yes, I do not deny there will be people who will wish it could have been Thane, or it could have been Garrus, or it could have been Kaidan ... but let's be clear, the single most important thing is that there is an m/m option at all.

As others have said, perhaps the reason Kaidan gets brought up so much is twofold: 1) he's an incredibly popular character that lots of people have grown to love (and the fact he was originally scripted as bi both plants that seed in people's minds, but also means some of his resulting dialogue has been read by many as ambiguous); 2) there are very plausible ways his character could be written to open up to a mShep in ME3, and the fact he's an established character with such a rich backstory serving alongside Shep means that story could be potentially brilliant.

Those points, and my expressing that, doesn't add up to a demand that he be a bi LI in ME3, nor does it add up to a declaration that I or anyone else would scream and stomp our feet and get upset if he wasn't. Those points have been written, by me and others, over time because it's part of us discussing the ways in which we could imagine a male bi LI being implemented.

[catabuca]

I shall attempt to avoid walls of text for the rest of the day XD

Thank goodness others are less verbose than I.

[Siansonea]

Actually 'buca, that was a wall of text worth reading, I think you summed up the subject well.

For my part, I think a lot of FFtL supporters could be a little more dispassionate when engaging in a disagreement with someone who doesn't support the initiative. We don't get a cookie if we *win* the argument. The goal should always be to engage them in a discussion that primarily seeks to understand their viewpoint, not steamroll them into agreeing with ours. Countering point after point is just verbal sparring, and often nothing is really gained. And confrontational/antagonistic tone is almost guaranteed to spoil your message.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 13 février 2011 - 07:17 .

[Vamphuntr]

I'm positively surprised that this thread is still going . I remember that when it was created people would keep trying to derail it and get it closed down. Happy the bigots didn't win.

[Maugrim]

Just dropping this off here to see how the poll has gone about a year later

Homosexual/Alternative Romance Yay or Nay?
Created on 2010-01-23 1718 votes,129 comments,4828 views

Yay if you want/do not care one way or the other. Nay if you do not want.This is strictly a poll to gauge the opinion of the ME public. It's is not demanding that said romances be put in, especially immediately.

Yay 68% (1172 votes)

Nay 32% (542 votes)

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 13 février 2011 - 10:32 .

[KiraTsukasa]

ME1 was attacked for having the sex scenes at all, what do you think this is going to do? If people freak out over Harry Potter being against the bible, do you honestly think THIS will fly?



Just use mods if you're that up in arms about it. Everyone else does.

[Sabariel]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

ME1 was attacked for having the sex scenes at all, what do you think this is going to do? If people freak out over Harry Potter being against the bible, do you honestly think THIS will fly?

Just use mods if you're that up in arms about it. Everyone else does.

The zealots had their fit about Zevran from DAO and the world didn't end. ME could survive adding "teh gey" just fine.

Modifié par Sabariel, 13 février 2011 - 11:05 .

[MisterDyslexo]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

ME1 was attacked for having the sex scenes at all, what do you think this is going to do? If people freak out over Harry Potter being against the bible, do you honestly think THIS will fly?

Just use mods if you're that up in arms about it. Everyone else does.

And absolutely none of those people were going to buy the game anyways. Last I checked, the existence of aliens, and killing other living beings, is slightly contradictory to the bible, right?

Videogame developers ignore the bible (or any other religion) thumpers. They've never contributed much.

However, controversy is publicity, and any publicity is good publicity. Hell, how do you think I found out about Mass Effect? No internet, but cable worked just fine, Fox News crystal clear...

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 13 février 2011 - 11:18 .

[KiraTsukasa]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

ME1 was attacked for having the sex scenes at all, what do you think this is going to do? If people freak out over Harry Potter being against the bible, do you honestly think THIS will fly?

Just use mods if you're that up in arms about it. Everyone else does.

And absolutely none of those people were going to buy the game anyways. Its publicity, and any publicity is good publicity. Hell, how do you think I found out about Mass Effect? No internet, but cable worked just fine, Fox News crystal clear.

I found out about Mass Effect from GameInformer. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Not all publicity is good. Fox News crucified ME1 and what happened? BioWare had to tone it down for ME2. I like to think that BioWare is smart enough to not stumble into another political pitfall. I don't agree with Fox News targeting ME over other games that are far worse, like God of War, but the picked ME and the results speak for themselves.

Another thought that occurs to me, play the game for the game, not the sex. That's what real life is for.

[Saeran]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

MisterDyslexo wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

ME1 was attacked for having the sex scenes at all, what do you think this is going to do? If people freak out over Harry Potter being against the bible, do you honestly think THIS will fly?

Just use mods if you're that up in arms about it. Everyone else does.

And absolutely none of those people were going to buy the game anyways. Its publicity, and any publicity is good publicity. Hell, how do you think I found out about Mass Effect? No internet, but cable worked just fine, Fox News crystal clear.

I found out about Mass Effect from GameInformer. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Not all publicity is good. Fox News crucified ME1 and what happened? BioWare had to tone it down for ME2. I like to think that BioWare is smart enough to not stumble into another political pitfall. I don't agree with Fox News targeting ME over other games that are far worse, like God of War, but the picked ME and the results speak for themselves.

Another thought that occurs to me, play the game for the game, not the sex. That's what real life is for.

Didn't Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 go on to be 2 very successful games? Last I checked they did, so Faux News "crucifying" Mass Effect only made it available to more people through their failure of an attempt to ruin it.

And your other thought that occured to you.. So your argument is that no romance should be in the game, not just LGBT. Last I checked that wasn't what this thread was about, there's probably another thread somewhere on these forums trying to "Fight for the people who disagree with story in a story based game!"

[Ryzaki]

And plus while ME2 did good DAO did *better*. And it actually had gay romances in it.