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[Space Kookie]

earthbornFemShep wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...
To be as objective as I can be given the circumstances, I think it's important (or at least fair) to acknowledge that there are a huge number of (probable, plausible) reasons why s/s content never made it into both games - tightly managed and limited budgets, resources, timing, marketability, and yes, perhaps some wariness of a backlash from shooter fans. David Gaider has outlined this in other areas, emphasizing that budgets really are limited and prone to the exigencies of development that necessitate cuts - which is all Bioware's perogative, after all.

I can understand the resources argument.  Bioware does not have unlimited resources and must allocate them wisely.  But, as with all business decisions, you need to measure the ROI (return on investment).  The ROI of adding s/s romance options is intangible and hard to measure.  However, I will say this:

The reason I kept my preorder of Dragon Age II is because when I played the demo game as LadyHawke, Isabella made a subtle pass at me.  I thought, "Wow, out in the open s/s options? Sweet.  I'll give this game a try." 

It is a surprisingly powerful and uplifting feeling when a game gives you an option like this.  Many white straight male players may not understand this because most games cater to that demographic.  (How many video game heros can you name that are straight, white men? Quite a few, right?  Now what about women? blacks? hispanics? etc, etc.)  When games first gave players the option to play as a female, it was a much similar feeling.  Finally, females had a character that they could own.  We could be a female character that was more than just the princess trapped in a castle, useless hinderance in an escort mission, a joke, or T&A left in for entertainment.  That ownership of a character is powerful whether it be relative to race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, or nationality.

Now, developers are including even more options to reflect ourselves and our choices in the characters we play.  We don't want to play a stereotype or see stereotypical (or downright insulting) squaddies included as jokes or for mockery.  Seeing a strong, well-adjusted character that the player can relate to is very positive. 

EDIT: spacing.

You have alot of great points. Maybe it is just a matter of time until homosexual relationships will be included in games just like women are now playable as well. Look back a couple years. 100 years ago women couldn't even vote. about 20 years ago homosexuality was still concidered a mental desease. I sure hope that it doesn't take the game industry 80 years to include gays and lesbians in their games XD

btw, just a lil off topic here, does anyone knows if there are m/m or f/f relationship options in DA2?
I'm still decoding the game, steam takes its time^^

[catabuca]

Yes there are. All the 4 LIs are bisexual. Yes. You heard me right. All of them, 2 men and 2 women, are romanceable by Hawke no matter his/her gender.

It boggles the mind that the DA team and ME team are part of the same company.

[Space Kookie]

That's true. I played DA2 yesterday for about 6 hours straight. It's great, all those choices =D

And yea, it is kinda wierd that the one team includes homosexual relationships, even sex although it is not diplayed (I really enjoyed that black screen of love XD)
and the ME crew leaves it out completely

[ElitePinecone]

Space Kookie wrote...

That's true. I played DA2 yesterday for about 6 hours straight. It's great, all those choices =D

And yea, it is kinda wierd that the one team includes homosexual relationships, even sex although it is not diplayed (I really enjoyed that black screen of love XD)
and the ME crew leaves it out completely

I find it endlessly pleasing that of all the things people have found to criticise about DA2 (and I haven't played it yet, so I'll defimitely hold off judgement), the inclusion of same-sex romances (four of them!) for Hawke hasn't been one of them, or at least as far as I've seen. The mechanics of the romances, yes (apparently weirdly awkward consummation scenes) - but not the inclusion of the options themselves. 

If anything, the reaction has been pretty positive, obviously vehemently so for fans of the romances themselves but also from a lesser extent general players who welcome more choice. 

At least we know the sky won't fall down when they're in the game. 

Edit: Fixing typos. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 10 mars 2011 - 02:12 .

[Space Kookie]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Space Kookie wrote...

That's true. I played DA2 yesterday for about 6 hours straight. It's great, all those choices =D

And yea, it is kinda wierd that the one team includes homosexual relationships, even sex although it is not diplayed (I really enjoyed that black screen of love XD)
and the ME crew leaves it out completely

I find it endlessly pleasing that of all the things people have found to criticise about DA2 (and I haven't played it yet, so I'll defimitely hold off judgement), the inclusion of same-sex romances (four of them!) for Hawke hasn't been one of them, or at least as far as I've seen. The mechanics of the romances, yes (apparently weirdly awkward consummation scenes) - but not the inclusion of the options themselves. 

If anything, the reaction has been pretty positive, obviously vehemently so for fans of the romances themselves but also from a lesser extent general players who welcome more choice. 

At least we know the sky won't fall down when they're in the game. 

Edit: Fixing typos. 

That is true indeed. I mean...I don't even see a reason why anyone would be against same sex romance options in a video game. It's not like Bioware would force all straight players to watch gay **** or something although it would be funny to see it in an RPG like DA or ME (JK XD)

[earthbornFemShep]

FataliTensei wrote...

Awesome post, very well-written and an excellent point made.

Thanks!  I do what I can. 

[Greatsultan]

hmmm....regarding same sex romance....

[Praetor Knight]

^ Noooo!!!

[ElitePinecone]

That was the most constructive post I've ever seen - your skill at articulation is incredible. We don't even need to discuss this topic further, such is the awesomeness of your posting ability.

[lovgreno]

My gaydar always did give a high value for Thane....

[Stupidus]

Seeing how gay romances played out in DA2, I have no interest in such in ME3. Please BioWare, keep pre-determined heterosexual characters that way. I have no problem with people being gay, but if their characters are meant to display certain attributes I wouldn't like that to change.

[ElitePinecone]

Stupidus wrote...

Seeing how gay romances played out in DA2, I have no interest in such in ME3. Please BioWare, keep pre-determined heterosexual characters that way. I have no problem with people being gay, but if their characters are meant to display certain attributes I wouldn't like that to change.

What about if there were new characters? Also, this thread isn't just for male/male romances in particular. We want more options for both genders of Shepard. 

(I haven't played DA2 yet, but yours is the first complaint about the m/m romances I've come across. From all accounts the romance scenes for *everyone* were incredibly awkward, most of the reviews I've seen praised the breadth of choice.)

[17thknight]

When handled well, I'm more than happy for their to be gay or bisexual characters in games.

However, it doesn't fit characterization when you make every character bisexual, or romanceable by every possible iteration of Shepard. Allow some gay characters, some bisexual, some straight, there's nothing wrong with that. But it really stretches/breaks credibility when every character will swing whatever way you can imagine.

[Praetor Knight]

To clarify, my earlier no was directed to the demotivator only

[Biotic_Warlock]

catabuca wrote...

Yes there are. All the 4 LIs are bisexual. Yes. You heard me right. All of them, 2 men and 2 women, are romanceable by Hawke no matter his/her gender.

It boggles the mind that the DA team and ME team are part of the same company.

Shame some are non romancable tho - aveline would have a sweet romance, especially after losing her hubby (just like jaheira in BG2).

I didnt think they were the same teams - DA and ME.

[ElitePinecone]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

To clarify, my earlier no was directed to the demotivator only

So was mine I didn't see your post before I replied... 

@17thknight: I don't think many people want a cast of polyamorous, pansexual characters wandering around. Not only is it unrealistic, I think it probably cheapens the impact of the romance if any character is romancable. Not to mention that writing lines and recording dialogue for every character to be bisexual would be very expensive. As you say, one or two available options would be great. 

[Biotic_Warlock]

I do hope u lot weren't in the DA2 no spoiler forum earlier.
Trust me you would not want to hear *cries*

[ElitePinecone]

What was the issue?

[Sahariel]

I hate to say it, but I was worried about this with DA2. If by making most companions bi they have missed out on the wondrous variety of human attraction by making it all the same then it is a step backwards for ever increasing complexity and depth for interactive narratives. It seems we have gone too far in the other direction. This I am afraid makes it all the more imperative for ME3 to include deep meaningful homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual romance options that don't tend towards uniformity.

[Golden Owl]

I fully support romance options to suit every player...though I would be very annoyed if the male squaddies stopped talking to my Shep also if he refuses to bed them, it's annoying enough with the female characters, or the assumption that he had something going with them if he didn't (aka. Kelly's comments when Shep ran into Ash on Horizon, was irritating, so changed my survivors choice).

Seriously though and on topic, I believe its about time options to suit every taste needs to be given...but I do wonder if the gaming companies would be more willing to suit every taste if they didn't have the fundamentalist God Squad breathing down their necks at every step....crazy how violence is acceptable whereas love scenes are not.

[InvincibleHero]

I hope people don't take this the wrong way, but for all the people that claim sexuality is determined by biology and not choice then it would be eliminated in a futuristic setting like ME. They have gene therapy and face it what parent isn't going to fix it if they find out there is a problem with (pulling a number out of the air) DNA protein 235. Soldiers like Shepard have had extensive gene mod to make them perfect beyond human.

That widowed mother and her brother in law quest in ME1 and cameo in ME2 illustrate this quite plainly. She appeared to be quite poor yet considers many gene therapies for her baby.

If it is choice then it will still exist. People have a right to choose who they love after all.

It would seem a DLC character would be the perfect solution. I know you'd have to pay more money for something you believe should be in the game to begin with. However, it can be done with a minimum of criticism for BW. They can also tailor it to include a more personal scene since it is not part of the standard game. Just label it so there is no discrepancy.

I know some people will moan because they want all ME content. I woulnd't buy it but have no problems with BW creating something I would not purchase. I haven't bought any DLCs anyway.

Zevran bothered me a little in DA with his beautiful line and wanting to bed a male Warden. It seemed very phony to me. I don't go up to any woman and do that. You try to learn if they might be interested from verbal and non-verbal cues and talking a long time. Maybe Charlie Sheen could get away with walking up to a chick hey you're hot want ot got to my place.

DA2 from what I read (don't own game) went about it wrong making everyone hit on you. I think the player should always be the initiator of any romance. Fine to have all characters romanceable by all genders (if they want to write it that way) just don't make male hit on male or female on female because that likewise could offend some people just as much as omitting romance options.

[Inspectre]

InvincibleHero wrote...
Fine to have all characters romanceable by all genders (if they want to write it that way) just don't make male hit on male or female on female because that likewise could offend some people just as much as omitting romance options.

You should be more offended at the characters, not the game.  I loved being able to pick who died in ME2...


Ahem,
What I hate most is bi characters.  They make it obvious that Bioware doesn't really care about the NPC, they're just trying to cater to players.

[Khemi]

Soldiers like Shepard have had extensive gene mod to make them perfect beyond human.

Consider the Sacred Band of Thebes. Beyond that, assuming a sane society, only the desire for grandchildren would make it reasonable to genemod your children towards heterosexuality. Then again, considering adoption and future biotech possibilities, even that is dubious.

I could imagine people wanting their children to be bisexual, for them to have more options. :-)

[Tarek]

I support this idea,

and what makes me mad is that gay/bi Shep. was already on the drawing boards, but it got scraped for some unfathomable reason.

live and let live, let gamers have their fun

[Deejtage]

I want Big Ben. That is all.

Seriously though, I'm hoping femshep and maleshep get at least one same-sex romance each. I'd be completely okay if they were new characters or not, although ideally I'd love Kaidan, but he's canonically straight, so that's not gonna happen. But that's okay... Just want to reiterate the fact that I want Big Ben. Just saying.