9243 réponses à ce sujet

[earthbornFemShep]

SpEcIaLRyAn21 wrote...

I understand people wanting same-sex relation-ships in games. However I believe Bioware commented on this aspect for Mass Effect by saying that Shepard's character is a little more pre-set. He already has a history and a past. Whereas the Warden in DA was more defined by the player as he really didn't have much a story to him until you start the game. However I do believe its becoming more prominent in games. In Bioware games at least.

As has been said in the previous post, the character of Hawke is much MORE predefined than Shepard.  Hawke had a predetermined backstory and family.  Whereas Shepard  had three separate backstories from which to choose. 

JustinTR wrote...

So i dont really get it. I see a lot of
posts that support the homosexual romances and at the same time saying
things like 'hetero romance can kiss mah butt'? So I can be acceptive of
your lifestyle but you can criticize mine? There is a reason for the
way the romances are in the game. If bioware saw fit to give shepard the
option of romancing another male character, they would. It doesnt mean
they are anti-gay. Obviously, since they do have same sex romances for
female shepard. If I went and said something like 'This needs to be
'straightened' up' about something homosexual, I would be called
homophobic or biased. So Ill apologize in advance for saying my favorite
game ever created doesnt need to be 'gayed' up just because some people
see it fit.

EDIT: before im called a homophobe or anti gay, I am NEITHER of these.

Most people supporting this thread are not 'heterophobic' or anti-straight.  You can't condemn a whole thread based on a few posters.  Plus, gay = happy... so saying something should be 'gayed' up has positive meanings.    Lighten up. 

[Tarek]

bump for Bioware eyes to see

[blazin130791]

Well I have no problem if it was included in the vanilla game, I was just pointing out that Bioware wouldn't make DLC which main focus is to introduce homosexual romances. I agree that not everyone uses or buys all the DLC but I imagine a DLC with a "gay" focus wouldn't sell as good as others.

As for it being inclulded in vanilla ME3 I am not against it but nor will I campagin for it to be included. If it fits in with a character or whatever then that is fine but it dosn't need to be included. Most people are straight so all characters being straight isnt homophobic it is just realistic in a small group that it isn't that likely to have someone who is gay. If Bioware dosn't include it then that is fine by me, if they do include it then it's fine. It will only bother me if a character is made gay to appease people.

It would be like me demanding Muslim characters to be included in the game. (I'm not muslim btw)

[Tarek]

Well Islam is not a state of body (like being gay, or blind, or having great eye sight...etc) its a state of faith, I hope I'm Muslim but that's all I can do because its something you earn and not born with, so you can't judge people by their faith, its impossible because only "God" knows if they have faith in anything.

so including "Muslims" in the game is a fallacy, because maybe Shepard is Muslim, or christian, or Buddhist...etc you can't tell , maybe Shepard should reflect the players state of mind (which is whats so appealing about role playing games)

just saying

remember in ME1 when Ash asks Shep. if he/she believes in God!! Bioware were very smart in all the answers, and thus they let the "player" keep whatever perception he has of his/her Shep. spiritual preferences.

omg I'm such a philosophy nerd

so yes give us gay/bi option Bioware pretty plz with a cherry on top. *puppy eyes*

[Cootie]

Shepard has the chance to express his spiritual state of mind, but his homosexuality is still a mystery left unexplored.

Modifié par Cootie, 21 mars 2011 - 05:59 .

[ElitePinecone]

Just a heads up: bumping might be seen as spamming if there's nothing content-wise in your post... so maybe include a comment as part of a ninja bump?

Regarding DLC, it's a bit of a moot point in any case. Arrival is the last DLC mission pack for ME2; development has almost certainly finished on it, given its release date, and so there's no chance of adding extra content to it now (not that Bioware would, but hypothetically...).

ME3 is a different matter.

[FataliTensei]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Just a heads up: bumping might be seen as spamming if there's nothing content-wise in your post... so maybe include a comment as part of a ninja bump?

Regarding DLC, it's a bit of a moot point in any case. Arrival is the last DLC mission pack for ME2; development has almost certainly finished on it, given its release date, and so there's no chance of adding extra content to it now (not that Bioware would, but hypothetically...).

ME3 is a different matter.

We can always hope for ME 3, i doubt we'll get anything but there's always hope so until it's a solidified fact I'll keep hoping.

[MisterDyslexo]

Quite frankly I sorta see the DLC thing as a bit offensive now. "We can't expect these people to play their game, the way they want to play, without freaking out because they can't read, so we're going to make you have to pay extra just to be represented."

Imagine if when you do the Shepard creation, you had all the races available, except black. How do you think anybody would take it if you had to pay 5 bucks to have a black Shepard? I'm white, but to me thats just plain insulting to me, as well as anybody who is black, and makes me ashamed that somebody of my own race could let that racist exploitation happen.

[kold213]

 I fully agree that there should be homosexual LI's, I don't however agree that every teammate should be bisexual. I honestly cannot see Ash Williams having that kinda relationship with another woman or Thane, a father and widower, up and change teams... 

[FataliTensei]

kold213 wrote...

 I fully agree that there should be homosexual LI's, I don't however agree that every teammate should be bisexual. I honestly cannot see Ash Williams having that kinda relationship with another woman or Thane, a father and widower, up and change teams... 

It's not really changing teams if you were playing for both to begin with

[kold213]

FataliTensei wrote...

kold213 wrote...

 I fully agree that there should be homosexual LI's, I don't however agree that every teammate should be bisexual. I honestly cannot see Ash Williams having that kinda relationship with another woman or Thane, a father and widower, up and change teams... 

It's not really changing teams if you were playing for both to begin with

Touché.

[Tarek]

Cootie wrote...

Shepard has the chance to express his spiritual state of mind, but his homosexuality is still a mystery left unexplored.

indeed <3

life is just so much more interesting when there are more options

Modifié par Tarek, 22 mars 2011 - 01:37 .

[Cootie]

Tarek wrote...

Cootie wrote...

Shepard has the chance to express his spiritual state of mind, but his homosexuality is still a mystery left unexplored.

indeed <3

life is just so much more interesting when there are more options

While I tend to limit myself in life, what with me being straight and keeping a firm stance on certain other lifestyle choices, I'm not a fan of prejudice.

And again, while I don't think Bioware's actually being prejudiced or somesuch, it does say something about Mass Effect's (intended)audience if lesbianism is fine and manlove-ism is not. And I personally do not want to be associated with that kind of audience.

To put it simply, it looks bad. It makes us look bad. It makes Bioware look bad. Fix it, please?

[Tarek]

Cootie wrote...

Tarek wrote...

Cootie wrote...

Shepard has the chance to express his spiritual state of mind, but his homosexuality is still a mystery left unexplored.

indeed <3

life is just so much more interesting when there are more options

While I tend to limit myself in life, what with me being straight and keeping a firm stance on certain other lifestyle choices, I'm not a fan of prejudice.

And again, while I don't think Bioware's actually being prejudiced or somesuch, it does say something about Mass Effect's (intended)audience if lesbianism is fine and manlove-ism is not. And I personally do not want to be associated with that kind of audience.

To put it simply, it looks bad. It makes us look bad. It makes Bioware look bad. Fix it, please?

if this topic had a bullseye you would have hit it

come on Bioware make us proud, fear not the crazy mass media

[Sahariel]

Reading some recent posts I think it would be wise for members of the lgbt community who have taken offense at Bioware's handling of same sex romances in the ME franchise to take a step back for some objectivity (although I concede the point that sometimes that Bioware's handling, particularly in interviews has been less than stellar). I am 100% in favor of well written homosexual romances for ME, but I don't think it's wise for the purposes of this thread to think of this as a gay rights issue.

This is about story and entertainment. It is from that principle that the best argument for same sex relationship inclusion is to be found. I tend to play my characters in a similar fashion, but I am always very interested to discover how friends of mine may play differently. Wether it is a moral, ethical or romantic option they take that I didn't, the more another player's story diverges from mine the more it makes mine feel special and unique. It may seem counter intuitive, but the more options I have that I don't take the more the character and the story seems tailored to me specifically.

It is to this end I feel the need to chime in with this post, as so far the romances in DA2 (and I am more than willing to change my tune once I have finished it), whilst they are admirable for the inclusion of bi npcs, seem to rob the narrative of some of this diversion by creating cookie cutter romances that "work" regardless of the character playing them. What I would ideally like to see is a game with several NPC's each tailored for straight, bisexual or gay relationships, and enough of them so everyone has a choice. Not just one token bi character of each gender.

The simple solution is to have two straight males, two straight females, two gay males, two lesbians and two bisexuals - one male and one female. This may scew real world demographics slightly, but this can be compensated for by showing most relationships in the game world to be straight, then a sense of real world percentages can be preserved. These ten romance options should all be fleshed out and unique and add to the story. The reason this is so important is at the moment although perfectly valid points are being raised as to people being felt left out or marginalized, the effect this can have is mediocre romances being churned out to tow a politically correct line as the best result, or same sex romances completely ignored as a worse case scenario. When the focus needs and always should be on story immersion and narrative.

To sum up my point as succinctly as I can:

A well told love story is always a good story.

Modifié par Sahariel, 23 mars 2011 - 03:13 .

[Whatever42]

I'm starting to think Bioware should just scrap romances.

[Almostfaceman]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I'm starting to think Bioware should just scrap romances.

Bioware, heck anyone who makes anything, can't please everyone - it's always been the case.  Don't let the whiney-butts get you down.

[Ice Cold J]

Myself, I'd prefer it if there were no same sex romances (the exception being the Asari, since they have been defined as "genderless").
That being said, it doesn't really bother me if there is a same-sex romance in the game. As long as I don't try for a paragon reply and wind up having Grunt coming on to me...   

[MisterDyslexo]

Ice Cold J wrote...

Myself, I'd prefer it if there were no same sex romances (the exception being the Asari, since they have been defined as "genderless").
That being said, it doesn't really bother me if there is a same-sex romance in the game. As long as I don't try for a paragon reply and wind up having Grunt coming on to me...   

This just came from the front page:

octoberfire suggested:
Just like paragon and renegade is color-coded
we're hoping that romance for ALL romances are color coded to pink or
some other various color, and possibly change script so you know when
you're about to accidentally/purposely start a romance.  This would be
similar to those of you who've played Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines.

Issues this would resolve:

Stop the accidentally started romances (like I did with Jacob)

Simple
coding because all that would need to be done is change the colored
font for romance, if it's just those who are already in the game, but
unlocked.

For both same-sex and straight romances.
[/list]

Would that work for you, because quite frankly I think many people would benefit from it. Sometimes you're able to read between the lines with Bioware's dialog wheel, and sometimes you're not *cough cough* Jacob *cough* so it would probably be an addition everybody could appreciate.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 23 mars 2011 - 05:18 .

[diskoh]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I'm starting to think Bioware should just scrap romances.

Bioware, heck anyone who makes anything, can't please everyone - it's always been the case.  Don't let the whiney-butts get you down.

In this case, the whiney-butts being the ones who whined them into removing the same sex romances they originally had in the game.

[diskoh]

Ice Cold J wrote...

Myself, I'd prefer it if there were no same sex romances (the exception being the Asari, since they have been defined as "genderless").

They've been defined as "monogendered" in the codex. That gender being female. According to the codex. You know, in the game.

[ElitePinecone]

Sahariel wrote...

This is about story and entertainment. It is from that principle that the best argument for same sex relationship inclusion is to be found. I tend to play my characters in a similar fashion, but I am always very interested to discover how friends of mine may play differently. Wether it is a moral, ethical or romantic option they take that I didn't, the more another player's story diverges from mine the more it makes mine feel special and unique. It may seem counter intuitive, but the more options I have that I don't take the more the character and the story seems tailored to me specifically.

It is to this end I feel the need to chime in with this post, as so far the romances in DA2 (and I am more than willing to change my tune once I have finished it), whilst they are admirable for the inclusion of bi npcs, seem to rob the narrative of some of this diversion by creating cookie cutter romances that "work" regardless of the character playing them. What I would ideally like to see is a game with several NPC's each tailored for straight, bisexual or gay relationships, and enough of them so everyone has a choice. Not just one token bi character of each gender.

The simple solution is to have two straight males, two straight females, two gay males, two lesbians and two bisexuals - one male and one female. This may scew real world demographics slightly, but this can be compensated for by showing most relationships in the game world to be straight, then a sense of real world percentages can be preserved. These ten romance options should all be fleshed out and unique and add to the story. 

To sum up my point as succinctly as I can:

A well told love story is always a good story.

First off, let me say that I totally agree with your emphasis on story and entertainment as the primary motivating factors behind why I play Bioware games. I've yet to play DA2 yet (my copy only arrived today from overseas) but from all accounts the "cookie-cutter" romances haven't been as memorable as some of the others we've seen Bioware do.

That being said, I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a second. Romances are, at best, a side-quest to the main story arc of the game, and not one that all players are going to experience. Undoubtedly they're welcomed by those who invest in the story and its characters, and who value deeper emotional content in gaming. But Bioware has limited resources, and, as has been explained before, often the priorities of the company direct these towards flashy elements to appeal to a wider audience.

Not that this is a good thing. At all. But being realistic rather than idealistic is, in this case, probably wise. Ten romance options would be equal to the romances of both ME and ME2 put together. I'd be incredibly surprised if there were even ten squadmates in the third game, after ME2's 12 saw accusations of Bioware overstretching and losing quality as a result. But my main point is that ten different, separate, unique romance arcs would require an investment of time, money and resources that I just don't think Bioware has. 

Would I appreciate it? Definitely. Characterisation is a wonderful thing when done well, and Bioware are some of the best at doing it, when they do it right. But I can't see ten romance options being at all realistic. It's rare enough that we get bisexual romance options (and I'm beginning to suspect that the reason it was in DA2 was because Bioware was pressed for time and economised on romances and characters), "purely" same-sex love interests would be an unprecedented investment of resources for a section of the audience that I just can't see Bioware making. 

[android654]

Ice Cold J wrote...

Myself, I'd prefer it if there were no same sex romances (the exception being the Asari, since they have been defined as "genderless").
That being said, it doesn't really bother me if there is a same-sex romance in the game. As long as I don't try for a paragon reply and wind up having Grunt coming on to me...   

Sometimes while I'm on here, I can't help but feel daft.

Why is it that same sex li's bother people so much. Isn't everyone aware it isn't mandatory in order to complete the game?

Modifié par android654, 23 mars 2011 - 03:27 .

[Tarek]

diskoh wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I'm starting to think Bioware should just scrap romances.

Bioware, heck anyone who makes anything, can't please everyone - it's always been the case.  Don't let the whiney-butts get you down.

In this case, the whiney-butts being the ones who whined them into removing the same sex romances they originally had in the game.

lol nice one;)

[MisterDyslexo]

android654 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

Myself, I'd prefer it if there were no same sex romances (the exception being the Asari, since they have been defined as "genderless").
That being said, it doesn't really bother me if there is a same-sex romance in the game. As long as I don't try for a paragon reply and wind up having Grunt coming on to me...   

Sometimes while I'm on here, I can't help but feel daft.

Why is it that same sex li's bother people so much. Isn't everyone aware it isn't mandatory in order to complete the game?

What?! Next you'll be telling us we don't need to go through boot camp to play Call of Duty, we don't need to go to photography school to play Pokemon Snap, and you don't need a background  in electronics and plumbing to play Mario.