9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Cootie]

Demonhoopa wrote...

android654 wrote...

Cootie wrote...

I see how there'd be an issue regarding suspension of belief in ME-2, when everyone wants a piece of the prize as though they were starved killer bees.

With that said, I personally feel like making everyone bisexual adds a lot more replayability and uniqueness and incentive.
Let's do the math here.
Out of seven LIs, six are straight, one is bisexual. Three unique LIs for each gender.
That's eight different combinations.

If they were all bi, that's fourteen.
Now you're free to try anything! It's like a sandbox romantic adventure! If anything, the uniqueness and the limits placed on MaleShep is the reason I find him unbearable to play.

Very true, and on the note of comparing Male and Female Sheps options, I found the female options to be wooden. Garrus barely speaks, Thane is an emotional vampire and Jacobs is wood in a leather suit. Jack, and tali had way better dialogue regarding the romance options in the game.

Exactly. Jack and Tali are the only characters that interest me as Male or Female shep. Unfortunately I can't replay the male shep due to voice acting preferences/tolerance. So I play mass effect 2 staying loyal to Kaeden or Liara now.

I hadn't really thought about it before, but I do think this is what's going on in my playthroughs as well. They are the only LI's that really stand out and I was semi-heartbroken when I found out Tali didn't want to link suits with my FemShep at all. D;
At least not the way I thought we would.

And I'm afraid not even Jack or Tali are worth sacrificing my ears.

[coolair74]

TommyServo wrote...

I like how we're
back to the Asari thing.
 
For those who are
just joining in now, I'd highly recommend reading the first couple of posts -
not the the whole thread, but the FAQ. It's incredibly comprehensive and it does
in fact address every single issue that has come up. It's a good place to
start.
 
We're stating our
position and discussing ways this could be implemented. Respectful disagreement
and reasoned arguments are welcome - downright stupidity is not. It's about Mass
Effect, and anything relevent thereto. Precedent set in other Bioware games are
relevant. Content that was cut from the release version of the games is
relevant. Real life, unfortunately, is not. There's a place to discuss that
stuff, of course, but it's in PMs or on private boards.
 
Read the FAQ, join
the group, stay on topic.
 
For my part, I'm ok
with defining the available LIs as bisexual or subjectively
bi/gay/straight. I've always been of the opinion that there's no canon
supporting cast, just as there's no canon Shepard. The Garrus that Paragon Sarah
Shepard interacts with is not the same as the Garrus that Renegade Dan Shepard
interacts with. It's possible - and plausible - that characters like Kaidan and
Ash can be written as bisexual in the third chapter of the story. Sexuality is
an aspect of one's character but it does not define one's character. This has
been repeatedly - and eloquently - stated by the likes of Rynluna in this and
other threads.
 
If in one person's
game, a certain character is gay/straight/bi, it doesn't affect your game. As
stated many times, it's entirely possible to make it through the entire trilogy
without involving yourself with any of the love interests.
 
This makes the game
better for everyone. It doesn't change the game or take away anything - it makes
for a more enriching roleplaying experience. This is good for
everyone.

As long as there is a button to turn off the gay, im all for it.

[Demonhoopa]

Alamar2078 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
You mean, it doesn't make sense for all LI's to be bi, right?  Because, even in DA2, not everyone was bisexual (Aveline, Carver, Sebastian...).  I'm not even talking about 'choice' or anything here.

Yes this is what I mean.  I am aware in DA2 the options are limited and I'm OK with that as it seems reasonable enough.

I was too....no one is forcing the LIs to be bisexual.  They just are.

In DA2 and in ME2 your are correct.  ALL are not BI.  The ones that are just are and I'm cool with that.

I would say that making a game where all love interests are BI is just as "odd" as making a game where all the love interests are straight.


Note: Either way I'm tiring of the thread.  I suspect nobody is ever going to convince anyone of anything.  While I couldn't prove it I doubt most of the vocal proponents on either side are really willing to consider other viewpoints.

They actually would not be "Bi". They would be whatever you are playing as in that playthrough. They are "Shep" or Hawke" sexuals.

What cracks me up about all the "Bi shrieking" over DA2 is that there are actually more characters written as Bi in Dragon Age Origins. You can learn that Liliana, the Antivan Assasin (mental block on the name) and Isabella just through dialogue that they are up for anything with either gender.

In DA2, Isabella is the only written Bisexual. The others are "Hawke sexuals". They are either gay or straight depending on your gender and theirs. Or they are neither if you are skillful with your dialogue choices (I've never been hit on by Fenris or Anders playing either gender).

[Pwener2313]

Everyone, the live chat is starting!

[android654]

On Thane, I really wonder what Bioware was thinking with his romance dialogue. Too much emotion too quickly unloaded made me uncomfortable, and I wasn't even in the room. He's supposed to be reserved, would he really open up that quickly to anyone who showed him the slightest amount of attention.

I get that he doesn't have a huge amount of experience dealing with people, but at least one could refrain from holding hands every time he speaks.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Alright, I've come up with something that I want to say. I will try not to be offensive.

It seems that along with some of the things being said here, some of you think that you are "entitled" to having bisexual LIs because it's for "equality" (it may seem like I'm about to get offensive but bear with me on this).

Actually you are not entitled to anything. No one is entitled to anything, but it seems that the majority (the ones who make straight romances and straight things in the media, if I'm saying this right) are making the rules, and no one can deny this.

Here's the thing, though - is this also your reply to the people getting butthurt over the fact that all of the DA2 LIs are available to Hawkes of both sexes? Because if it's not, that's hypocrisy at its finest. Sure, no one's entitled to all bi LIs or whatever, but neither are they entitled to whatever magical golden ration of straight to gay to bi LIs they think is appropriate. (For the record, I'm not sure where everyone got the idea that Anders was straight in DA:A. Yeah, he mentioned women, but he also flirted by the bucketful with Nathaniel.)

Ultimately its the devs who make the call. In DA2 they made the call for all LIs to be (functionally) bi. By your logic, no one complaining about it has that right, because they're not entitled to make that call. Or is your argument actually that the majority should dictate what the devs do, and make sure devs write some straight LIs even if the devs want to try all bi/gay LIs?

As far as ME goes, CHudson and Myzuka's ham-handed 'explainations' didn't do any explaining at all. There's no reason for MShep to be considered canonically straight when FemShep isn't, especially given all of the other player-driven choices, including selection of LI (if any). There's also no particular reason to exclude m/m from the potential LIs.

From DA2, I think the heart icon in the dialogue wheel is actually performing fairly well, and serves to temper those instances of weird summaries that bear no resemblance to what's going to be spoken; it's staved off any ninjamances for me, anyway. There's still tweaking to be done, and there could always be more dialogue options, but it's overall working a lot bettr than I'd thought it would. It definitely would have been useful in ME2 (damn you, Kelly).

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 24 mars 2011 - 09:02 .

[android654]

coolair74 wrote...
As long as there is a button to turn off the gay, im all for it.

There is one, its called the don't pick the romance button. If you can read, you can find it.

[Demonhoopa]

android654 wrote...

Yeah, I would've loved a way to have femshep and Jack transferable, but doesn't look that way. I suffer through Male shep's cut scenes with my tv on mute, I'm usually listening to the news when I play with him anyway...

HA! play with him. I'm priceless.

LOL. That's like my son. He plays male Shep the way I used to watch Walker Texas Ranger. He just thinks of it as campy and laughs his ass off. Especially when a scene is supposed to be dramatic. 

But for me, the game is too good to just play it for a laugh so I'm limited to Femshep and her terrible romance options.  

[Ninja Mage]

coolair74 wrote...


As long as there is a button to turn off the gay, im all for it.

Should there be a button to turn off the straight? Look, you may not want bisexual companions in the game, that's fine, but don't bring your homophobic viewpoint into the discussion too. I would rather see a happy medium than "Press X to remove all diverse character interaction, including homosexuality"

[coolair74]

android654 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...
As long as there is a button to turn off the gay, im all for it.

There is one, its called the don't pick the romance button. If you can read, you can find it.

Yeah that worked so well in DA2

[android654]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Alright, I've come up with something that I want to say. I will try not to be offensive.

It seems that along with some of the things being said here, some of you think that you are "entitled" to having bisexual LIs because it's for "equality" (it may seem like I'm about to get offensive but bear with me on this).

Actually you are not entitled to anything. No one is entitled to anything, but it seems that the majority (the ones who make straight romances and straight things in the media, if I'm saying this right) are making the rules, and no one can deny this.

You do know that there are quite a bit of people who are in the "majority," like myself, who still support the DA2 model right?

Demonhoopa wrote...

android654 wrote...

Yeah, I would've loved a way to have femshep and Jack transferable, but doesn't look that way. I suffer through Male shep's cut scenes with my tv on mute, I'm usually listening to the news when I play with him anyway...

HA! play with him. I'm priceless.

LOL. That's like my son. He plays male Shep the way I used to watch Walker Texas Ranger. He just thinks of it as campy and laughs his ass off. Especially when a scene is supposed to be dramatic. 

But for me, the game is too good to just play it for a laugh so I'm limited to Femshep and her terrible romance options.  

I have 3 female Shepards and 1 male shep, I did that on purpose. And that one Male shep is an infiltrator, I did that so I could keep him cloaked half of the time he's on screen.

[Servo to the bitter end]

coolair74 wrote...

Yeah that worked so well in DA2

For the most part it did. I've only finished a playthrough with a fHawke, and I admit that Anders backed me into a corner with the "Heart/Heart/Sod off" thing, but otherwise, it's very very easy to avoid them. I'm willing to chalk the Anders thing up to being a bug for that reason.

[Ninja Mage]

coolair74 wrote...

android654 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...
As long as there is a button to turn off the gay, im all for it.

There is one, its called the don't pick the romance button. If you can read, you can find it.

Yeah that worked so well in DA2

Would you kindly leave the thread??


/Atlas

[coolair74]

Ninja Mage wrote...

coolair74 wrote...


As long as there is a button to turn off the gay, im all for it.

Should there be a button to turn off the straight? Look, you may not want bisexual companions in the game, that's fine, but don't bring your homophobic viewpoint into the discussion too. I would rather see a happy medium than "Press X to remove all diverse character interaction, including homosexuality"

Yeah here we go again, because I want to retain the original narrative, Im homophobic. I dont mind that they are in a game. I just dont want them in my game. I think the game has enough diversity.  Does that effect you? No it doesnt . When are you gonna accuse of not knowing if im gay or not?  Keep your assertions to yourself, you dont know me.  Tell you what , if its done better than they did in DA2, ill relent. I 

[Cootie]

Hmmm... back to discussion-ville! Less mind-numbing naysaying!
Let's say that some time after ME-3's release, if they adopted the DA2 LI design model and the convo wheel changes, they released some sort of "Collector Box" set with the entire trilogy reworked with some tweaking. Like applying the DA2 LI functional bisexuality and the dialogue wheel symbols, amongst other things.

Would you buy it? Is that reason enough to buy the entire trilogy one more time?
I probably would.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Cootie wrote...

Hmmm... back to discussion-ville! Less mind-numbing naysaying!
Let's say that some time after ME-3's release, if they adopted the DA2 LI design model and the convo wheel changes, they released some sort of "Collector Box" set with the entire trilogy reworked with some tweaking. Like applying the DA2 LI functional bisexuality and the dialogue wheel symbols, amongst other things.

Would you buy it? Is that reason enough to buy the entire trilogy one more time?
I probably would.

In a hearbeat.

[coolair74]

Ninja Mage wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

android654 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...
As long as there is a button to turn off the gay, im all for it.

There is one, its called the don't pick the romance button. If you can read, you can find it.

Yeah that worked so well in DA2

Would you kindly leave the thread??


/Atlas

You are the one mud slinging buddy boy.  If you dont like it , feel free to sod off.

[Servo to the bitter end]

coolair74 wrote...



Yeah here we go again, because I want to retain the original narrative, Im homophobic. I dont mind that they are in a game. I just dont want them in my game. I think the game has enough diversity.  Does that effect you? No it doesnt . When are you gonna accuse of not knowing if im gay or not?  Keep your assertions to yourself, you dont know me.  Tell you what , if its done better than they did in DA2, ill relent. I 

There is no original narrative. The details can vary in a number of ways. Characters live, characters die. My Shepard isn't your Shepard, and my story isn't your story.

It's as simple as ignoring those options.

[android654]

TommyServo wrote...

coolair74 wrote...



Yeah here we go again, because I want to retain the original narrative, Im homophobic. I dont mind that they are in a game. I just dont want them in my game. I think the game has enough diversity.  Does that effect you? No it doesnt . When are you gonna accuse of not knowing if im gay or not?  Keep your assertions to yourself, you dont know me.  Tell you what , if its done better than they did in DA2, ill relent. I 

There is no original narrative. The details can vary in a number of ways. Characters live, characters die. My Shepard isn't your Shepard, and my story isn't your story.

It's as simple as ignoring those options.

There you go, making sense agian.

[coolair74]

Cootie wrote...

Hmmm... back to discussion-ville! Less mind-numbing naysaying!
Let's say that some time after ME-3's release, if they adopted the DA2 LI design model and the convo wheel changes, they released some sort of "Collector Box" set with the entire trilogy reworked with some tweaking. Like applying the DA2 LI functional bisexuality and the dialogue wheel symbols, amongst other things.

Would you buy it? Is that reason enough to buy the entire trilogy one more time?
I probably would.

I fully doubt id buy it, the game is fine as is, for me. I think if they did that , you had have all kinds of remarkes from Fox news about , MASS EFFECT TRILOGY , GAY EDITION. I dont think it will help, much to the contrary.

About the DA2 thing, I personally didnt like it. I tend to think that all of the options are going through your head and you have to pick the one you like most. Since Im full hetero, I would never consider Garrus as an LI, i dont think he would either. Which is at the very heart of the arguement, Just because you may think of them as LI's , why would they recipricate? What if they are simply straight?  Now maybe the addition of a new guy who is Bi or something could work, but they would have to fix the DA2 wheel of death cuz Anders was about as suttle as dump truck.

[Ninja Mage]

Shepard was born this way, he ain't ever gonna change, keep your paws off it, whether you're into him or H-I-M..lol

[coolair74]

TommyServo wrote...

coolair74 wrote...



Yeah here we go again, because I want to retain the original narrative, Im homophobic. I dont mind that they are in a game. I just dont want them in my game. I think the game has enough diversity.  Does that effect you? No it doesnt . When are you gonna accuse of not knowing if im gay or not?  Keep your assertions to yourself, you dont know me.  Tell you what , if its done better than they did in DA2, ill relent. I 

There is no original narrative. The details can vary in a number of ways. Characters live, characters die. My Shepard isn't your Shepard, and my story isn't your story.

It's as simple as ignoring those options.

I think you just made my point , thank you.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Guys,

Please don't post pictures that aren't relevant to the thread. If you feel that someone is trolling, don't engage them with off-topic responses. Just report them, PM them, or ignore them. This thread has been remarkably productive and civil, and it would be great for it to stay that way.

[Servo to the bitter end]

coolair74 wrote...




I think you just made my point , thank you.

You're welcome. I'm glad we agree on this.

That said, would you oppose the inclusion of this content for others who want it, knowing full well that it would not affect your game at all?

[coolair74]

TommyServo wrote...

Guys,

Please don't post pictures that aren't relevant to the thread. If you feel that someone is trolling, don't engage them with off-topic responses. Just report them, PM them, or ignore them. This thread has been remarkably productive and civil, and it would be great for it to stay that way.

I think Ive been pretty civil.  I can go full on abrasive you would like.