9243 réponses à ce sujet

[catabuca]

@cedgedc -- hehe, yes I think it is personal preference, since, while I like Isabela's big boats, I cannot lie *cringe*, Anders does it for me more

Actually, there are some (whose arguments I completely sympathise with, even if I'm not as bothered by it myself) who feel the Isabela situation is actually far worse than the Anders one, and if anything is 'forced' on you in the game it is that. This is why:

At the end of the Chantry mission, she says she has a room at the Hanged Man if you're interested in a little 'company' later. Camera pans to Hawke, and Hawke, regardless of gender, regardless of attraction to Isabela, replies with a seductive and 'interested' little grin. The player has zero control at that point in the game whether their Hawke responds in that way or not to her come on. If you are playing as a gay male Hawke or straight female Hawke, it is suddenly completely out of character for him to be grinning like a cheshire cat at the thought of getting some nookie with Isabela. Likewise if you are playing a Hawke who is chaste, or simply doesn't like Isabela in that way. All control is wrested from the player at that one point. Whereas, with the Anders conversation, at no point does the player have to say or do anything they don't actively choose to say or do.

Make of that what you will.

[Finis Valorum]

cedgedc wrote...

It's true though that the sexual advances of anders seem to be regarded as criminal where Isabella's are not.

That said, I got to high levels of friendship with Zevran in DA:O and had him present me with romantic options and didn't at all feel any  of the 'this is a little weird' reaction that I had to anders. It was more like.. Oh neat, he's gay. Flattered but, no thanks!

The "it's a little weird reaction" with Anders could be due to having played and remebering Awakenings, I know that's the case for me at least.
I for one was sad that Zevran didn't even seem to remember the relationship he had/has with my MAmell. Though being unfaithful does seem to be in character for Zevran at least. To be fair isabela is a lot like Zevran was in Origins and hits on many of your companions so having her flirt up the PC, male or female, is perfectly in character for her.

[catabuca]

Finis Valorum wrote...

I personally don't mind having people, including Anders, hitting on my cute MaleHawke, sadly however the prevailing sentiment among young males who play videogames is that lesbian sex is smokin hot, while having m/m relationships even mentioned, much less explicitely depicted, is a direct threat to their masculinity that could potentially awaken forbidden desires that would make their heads explode or something like that.

Personally I would very much prefer it if Kaidan would flirt with MaleShep in ME3 without being prompted first, sadly that's not ever going to be.

I would die and go to BioWare Heaven if that ever happened, seriously.

Thankfully there is still plenty of time between now and November to prepare myself mentally for utter and complete disappointment. Again. (Not just on the Kaidan issue, but the m/m and s/s issue as a whole. I'm afraid I don't have the optimism some do. I shan't stop being loud and obnoxious in this thread and elsewhere though )

[catabuca]

Talking about Zevran reminds me: I find it utterly hilarious the amount of people who are suddenly proclaiming that DA 'did gay right' in Origins when they created Zevran, as a way of bashing Anders ... when Zevran got so much immense flak for the way he openly expresses his interest in the Warden at the time. It amuses me.

(You're not doing that, of course. I was just reminded of it when you brought Zevran up.)

[Siansonea]

I don't accept 'sad but true' as a legitimate response to the homophobia of the young male demographic. It is sad, it is true, but it's not a reason to exclude content of any kind. Seriously, if everything in the game has to pass through the "will 13-year-old boys be wigged out by this?" filter, then count me out. Games, and other media, should not court these brats so strenuously. They'll either buy your game or they won't, and for all that they love to spam their forums with their "look how gay I'm NOT" homophobic idiocy, they will undoubtedly buy the game anyway so they can rant incoherently on the Internet about it. Regardless of its content. Instead of having the rest of us sink to their level for the sake of placating these twerps' fragile little minds, how about we have great games with adult themes that challenge them to keep up instead? Some of them might actually be able to do that, after all, we really only see the worst of them on here. The ones who have a degree of maturity are usually pretty quiet, or we assume they're adults.

And for the record, providing same sex LI options is not just for LGBT gamers, it's for everyone who likes to role play. You know, role play? That thing where you pretend to be somebody else? Yes, believe it or not, there are straight people out there who might want to roleplay as a Gay Homosexual every now and then. It happens. More choices are always better, because you never know what will appeal to whom.

Just my two cents.

[catabuca]

Finis Valorum wrote...

The "it's a little weird reaction" with Anders could be due to having played and remebering Awakenings, I know that's the case for me at least.
I for one was sad that Zevran didn't even seem to remember the relationship he had/has with my MAmell. Though being unfaithful does seem to be in character for Zevran at least. To be fair isabela is a lot like Zevran was in Origins and hits on many of your companions so having her flirt up the PC, male or female, is perfectly in character for her.

There are lots of import 'oversights' in the game. A friend of mine was incensed when Leliana failed to mention that she had a lovely Warden waiting back at home for her once she'd finished being all 'seekery'. Likewise, Zevran didn't mention anything about my Warden who was apparently off adventuring with him somewhere after the events of Awakening. I can't see the point of having cameos like that if the reason we want to see those characters again (that is, for the relationships we built up with them previously) are completely ignored. Meh.

And yes, it is in character for Isabela to flirt with everything that moves. I also think it's in character for Anders to make the first move, since he was pretty suggestive in Awakening (and I am one of those who firmly prescribes to the fact that just because he wasn't able to pursue a m/m relationship in Awakening, and just because he didn't talk about liking men in that game, that doesn't preclude that part of him in any way shape or form).

But like I said, it's one thing Isabela being flirty, it's quite another for Hawke's reaction to that to be taken out of the hands of the player. It isn't with Anders.

[cedgedc]

@catabuca Haha, that was indeed a fun little line. I think the difference however between the two is that as Fins Valorum pointed out, this wasn't the impression I got of Anders in the first game, and playing a female avatar at the time, I actively pursued him to see if there were romantic options in the expansion.

Isabella comes on the scene, oozing sexual deviance from the get go, much as did zevran. You have no doubts that the two of them will hit on anything that moves, and do so as often in jest as in seriousness. Isabella is as liable to make the women in your group blush as she does the men, and has a rather one track mind.. Well three tracks.. boos, boats, and booty.

So right from the get go, interested or not, you pretty much know where you stand with her, and it's either 'I better keep an eye on her', or 'I better get on her'.

[catabuca]

Siansonea II wrote...

I don't accept 'sad but true' as a legitimate response to the homophobia of the young male demographic. It is sad, it is true, but it's not a reason to exclude content of any kind. Seriously, if everything in the game has to pass through the "will 13-year-old boys be wigged out by this?" filter, then count me out. Games, and other media, should not court these brats so strenuously. They'll either buy your game or they won't, and for all that they love to spam their forums with their "look how gay I'm NOT" homophobic idiocy, they will undoubtedly buy the game anyway so they can rant incoherently on the Internet about it. Regardless of its content. Instead of having the rest of us sink to their level for the sake of placating these twerps' fragile little minds, how about we have great games with adult themes that challenge them to keep up instead? Some of them might actually be able to do that, after all, we really only see the worst of them on here. The ones who have a degree of maturity are usually pretty quiet, or we assume they're adults.

And for the record, providing same sex LI options is not just for LGBT gamers, it's for everyone who likes to role play. You know, role play? That thing where you pretend to be somebody else? Yes, believe it or not, there are straight people out there who might want to roleplay as a Gay Homosexual every now and then. It happens. More choices are always better, because you never know what will appeal to whom.

Just my two cents.

I see your two cents, and raise them an award for awesomeness.

You know I love you anyway. <3

[Siansonea]

cedgedc wrote...

@catabuca Haha, that was indeed a fun little line. I think the difference however between the two is that as Fins Valorum pointed out, this wasn't the impression I got of Anders in the first game, and playing a female avatar at the time, I actively pursued him to see if there were romantic options in the expansion.

Isabella comes on the scene, oozing sexual deviance from the get go, much as did zevran. You have no doubts that the two of them will hit on anything that moves, and do so as often in jest as in seriousness. Isabella is as liable to make the women in your group blush as she does the men, and has a rather one track mind.. Well three tracks.. boos, boats, and booty.

So right from the get go, interested or not, you pretty much know where you stand with her, and it's either 'I better keep an eye on her', or 'I better get on her'.

Well, Isabella (and Zevran, I guess, I don't know him) may be a sexual "deviant", but not because she's bisexual. Isabella is promiscuous and lusty. She's also bisexual. The two are not related traits. Anders' personality is much more self-abnegating, so his approach to relationships and sex is less playful than Isabella's, but that doesn't make him any less believably bisexual.

Really this all stems from the premise that people expect gay and bisexual characters to wear a big sign that says "I'm Gay/Bisexual" in big letters, or make a big announcement at the first handshake. The thing is, people assume that a character is straight, unless there's a big sign or big announcement, but t'ain't necessarily so, folks.

[catabuca]

cedgedc wrote...

@catabuca Haha, that was indeed a fun little line. I think the difference however between the two is that as Fins Valorum pointed out, this wasn't the impression I got of Anders in the first game, and playing a female avatar at the time, I actively pursued him to see if there were romantic options in the expansion.

Isabella comes on the scene, oozing sexual deviance from the get go, much as did zevran. You have no doubts that the two of them will hit on anything that moves, and do so as often in jest as in seriousness. Isabella is as liable to make the women in your group blush as she does the men, and has a rather one track mind.. Well three tracks.. boos, boats, and booty.

So right from the get go, interested or not, you pretty much know where you stand with her, and it's either 'I better keep an eye on her', or 'I better get on her'.

Yes, she absolutely does make it clear where she stands, no doubt. I maintain that if anything is 'forced' on the player regarding sexuality or romance it is with Hawke's little look at her in the Chantry. If a male Hawke had given Anders the eye like that, can you imagine the rage? (I subscribe to Sian's opinion on the 'well that's just the way it is' thing, about that, btw -- acknowledging that things are a certain way doesn't mean condoning it or deciding not to try to do something to change it.)

As for how Anders came across in Awakening, this is completely and utterly subjective. I've heard plenty of people, gay and straight, who have said they thought he seemed straight, and plenty of people, gay and straight, who thought he could have been bi or gay. Although, just quite how one can ever be 100% sure of something like that without proof either way is beyond me. We don't all have a finely tuned gaydar. And nor, quite frankly, should it matter. Anyway, I'm letting my point drift away from me -- what I meant to say was that since Anders' sexuality was never defined in any way in Awakening, everything is inference. And if some people really *did* think he was totally straight in Awakening, well I know I have had times when I've thought 'wow, I would never have guessed he was gay' about people I've known for a while. I lived with a guy for a year (as flat mates, nothing romantic) and never had any clue he was gay (nor, apparently, did he at the time .... but I digress). I would suggest that those who are significantly perturbed by the 'sudden' knowledge that Anders also likes guys just pretend it's one of those situations and chalk it up to needing to take the gaydar in for a service.

[Siansonea]

catabuca wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I don't accept 'sad but true' as a legitimate response to the homophobia of the young male demographic. It is sad, it is true, but it's not a reason to exclude content of any kind. Seriously, if everything in the game has to pass through the "will 13-year-old boys be wigged out by this?" filter, then count me out. Games, and other media, should not court these brats so strenuously. They'll either buy your game or they won't, and for all that they love to spam their forums with their "look how gay I'm NOT" homophobic idiocy, they will undoubtedly buy the game anyway so they can rant incoherently on the Internet about it. Regardless of its content. Instead of having the rest of us sink to their level for the sake of placating these twerps' fragile little minds, how about we have great games with adult themes that challenge them to keep up instead? Some of them might actually be able to do that, after all, we really only see the worst of them on here. The ones who have a degree of maturity are usually pretty quiet, or we assume they're adults.

And for the record, providing same sex LI options is not just for LGBT gamers, it's for everyone who likes to role play. You know, role play? That thing where you pretend to be somebody else? Yes, believe it or not, there are straight people out there who might want to roleplay as a Gay Homosexual every now and then. It happens. More choices are always better, because you never know what will appeal to whom.

Just my two cents.

I see your two cents, and raise them an award for awesomeness.

You know I love you anyway. <3

 The feelin' is mutual darlin'. <3

[ADLegend21]

Siansonea II wrote...

I don't accept 'sad but true' as a legitimate response to the homophobia of the young male demographic. It is sad, it is true, but it's not a reason to exclude content of any kind. Seriously, if everything in the game has to pass through the "will 13-year-old boys be wigged out by this?" filter, then count me out. Games, and other media, should not court these brats so strenuously. They'll either buy your game or they won't, and for all that they love to spam their forums with their "look how gay I'm NOT" homophobic idiocy, they will undoubtedly buy the game anyway so they can rant incoherently on the Internet about it. Regardless of its content. Instead of having the rest of us sink to their level for the sake of placating these twerps' fragile little minds, how about we have great games with adult themes that challenge them to keep up instead? Some of them might actually be able to do that, after all, we really only see the worst of them on here. The ones who have a degree of maturity are usually pretty quiet, or we assume they're adults.

And for the record, providing same sex LI options is not just for LGBT gamers, it's for everyone who likes to role play. You know, role play? That thing where you pretend to be somebody else? Yes, believe it or not, there are straight people out there who might want to roleplay as a Gay Homosexual every now and then. It happens. More choices are always better, because you never know what will appeal to whom.

Just my two cents.

two cents?! Two Cents?!

More like a million bucks!

[cedgedc]

Siansonea II wrote...

I don't accept 'sad but true' as a legitimate response to the homophobia of the young male demographic. It is sad, it is true, but it's not a reason to exclude content of any kind. Seriously, if everything in the game has to pass through the "will 13-year-old boys be wigged out by this?" filter, then count me out. Games, and other media, should not court these brats so strenuously. They'll either buy your game or they won't, and for all that they love to spam their forums with their "look how gay I'm NOT" homophobic idiocy, they will undoubtedly buy the game anyway so they can rant incoherently on the Internet about it. Regardless of its content. Instead of having the rest of us sink to their level for the sake of placating these twerps' fragile little minds, how about we have great games with adult themes that challenge them to keep up instead? Some of them might actually be able to do that, after all, we really only see the worst of them on here. The ones who have a degree of maturity are usually pretty quiet, or we assume they're adults.

And for the record, providing same sex LI options is not just for LGBT gamers, it's for everyone who likes to role play. You know, role play? That thing where you pretend to be somebody else? Yes, believe it or not, there are straight people out there who might want to roleplay as a Gay Homosexual every now and then. It happens. More choices are always better, because you never know what will appeal to whom.

Just my two cents.

I may not have explained myself very well because I was actually sneaking onto the forums from work lol. When I said it's 'Sad but true' I was generally refering to the issue of : 'Why are there complaints about anders and not about isabella?'

I was trying to point out that most gamers are guys and there are more straight guys than gay guys. I think that the rate that our society has been progressing is such that most people (Whether you're asking a gamer or nongamer) expect video games to cater in large part to that demographic.

And let's face it. These companies are trying to run a profitable business. They had no particular reason to make as many games that cater to women, or the gay community because they were simply making a product that would be enjoyed by as much of their target demographic as possible. I.E. single teenage boys.

Thankfully game designers are slooowly begining to realise that the gaming community is growing with every passing year both in size and scope. More and more people you'd never consider your quintessential gamer call themselves gamers.

However, I don't think it is unfair to say that if you asked someone who was gay, lesbien, bi, other,- if they truly believed that there were many game producers out there who would create adult-orriented games that catered to their demographic, most would probably say they had their doubts. This is the part that is sad but true. For now. I COMPLETELY agree that this is unnacceptible, and frankly would love to see more games that pushed the envelope; more games that were targeted toward a mature audience rather than just 'ages 13+'.

[Siansonea]

For those who are wondering, there's only one sure-fire way to know if a character is exclusively heterosexual: They tell you flat out. That means they say something like "I only date men" if they're female, or vice versa. In the absence of such a concrete proclamation, we can't assume anything, even if they are in a relationship. We see Aveline lose one husband and gain another, but we don't know for certain whether or not she could fall for the right woman, now do we? Chances are, Aveline probably is completely heterosexual, but I wouldn't just assume she was because she's not interested in FemHawke.

Personally I wish the "existing LIs can't be gay" issue would be put to rest already. Chances are, it's a moot point anyway. I'm sure the firestorm surrounding Anders' come-on nixed any possibility or Kaidan or Ashley (or any existing characters) being revealed to be bisexual in ME3. If the ME team's past actions are any guide, Shepard will be able to have a romantic relationship with anything of the opposite sex in ME3, even if it's a plant, but two dudes won't even be able to shake hands.

[Finis Valorum]

catabuca wrote...

I would die and go to BioWare Heaven if that ever happened, seriously.

Thankfully there is still plenty of time between now and November to prepare myself mentally for utter and complete disappointment. Again. (Not just on the Kaidan issue, but the m/m and s/s issue as a whole. I'm afraid I don't have the optimism some do. I shan't stop being loud and obnoxious in this thread and elsewhere though )

Having read the tea leaves and consulted the local monkeys, i have come to the conclusion that if Bioware includes any m/m content in ME3 at all it is indeed going to be Kelly's chubby male replacement, only available if the real kelly dies in ME2 of course, and then only if you repeatedly initiate flirtatious dialog with him in various loud and unsuble ways and as an added bonus he'll make frequent references to the boobies of female crew members throughout the whole fling. At least that's the best case scenario I'm preparing myself for mentally. The worst is that they'll make "predefined" MShep publicaly  voice his dissaproval of such relationships (even though they're completely accepted in universe) under the guise of making his personality more vivid and flavourful.   

Modifié par Finis Valorum, 31 mars 2011 - 10:12 .

[catabuca]

On the awkward subject of rivalry and Anders, I just went to speak to Thrask in the Gallows, with Anders and Fenris in my party. I basically said "all Mages are bad, m'kay? Yay! Templars are cool!" and I got +10 friendship with Fenris, but absolutely no rivalry with Anders. WTF? How did I *not* get rivalry for that?

Methinks the people who get that +15 rivalry at the beginning of the game protest too much. >.>

*goes back to trying to rivalmance Anders*

[catabuca]

Finis Valorum wrote...

Having read the tea leaves and consulted the local monkeys, i have come to the conclusion that if Bioware includes any m/m content in ME3 at all it is indeed going to be Kelly's chubby male replacement, only available if the real kelly dies in ME2 of course, and then only if you repeatedly initiate flirtatious dialog with him in various loud and unsuble ways and as an added bonus he'll make frequent references to the boobies of female crew members throughout the whole fling. At least that's the best case scenario I'm preparing myself for mentally. The worst is that they'll make "predefined" MShep publicaly  voice his dissaproval of such relationships (even though they're completely accepted in universe) under the guise of making his personality more vivid and flavourful.   

I find your ... 'optimism' ... hilariously depressing 

[Clonedzero]

it'd be out of character for kaidan to start hitting on male shepard. theres absolutely ZERO sexual tension or chemistry between kaidan and male shepard, so why would that suddenly change years later?

i dunno, its alittle late in an established series to start changing characters. i'm all for there being gay/bi characters in ME3, but changing characters around is not the way to do it. using kaidan as my primary example, it would feel EXTREMELY forced and unnatural for him to suddenly start hitting on male shepard when there was nothing to indicate that might be a possibility in the previous games. theres just no in-game references to it in any way. so why force an established character to be bi? why not introduce a new bi character or something? whats wrong with that?

[Siansonea]

cedgedc wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I don't accept 'sad but true' as a legitimate response to the homophobia of the young male demographic. It is sad, it is true, but it's not a reason to exclude content of any kind. Seriously, if everything in the game has to pass through the "will 13-year-old boys be wigged out by this?" filter, then count me out. Games, and other media, should not court these brats so strenuously. They'll either buy your game or they won't, and for all that they love to spam their forums with their "look how gay I'm NOT" homophobic idiocy, they will undoubtedly buy the game anyway so they can rant incoherently on the Internet about it. Regardless of its content. Instead of having the rest of us sink to their level for the sake of placating these twerps' fragile little minds, how about we have great games with adult themes that challenge them to keep up instead? Some of them might actually be able to do that, after all, we really only see the worst of them on here. The ones who have a degree of maturity are usually pretty quiet, or we assume they're adults.

And for the record, providing same sex LI options is not just for LGBT gamers, it's for everyone who likes to role play. You know, role play? That thing where you pretend to be somebody else? Yes, believe it or not, there are straight people out there who might want to roleplay as a Gay Homosexual every now and then. It happens. More choices are always better, because you never know what will appeal to whom.

Just my two cents.

I may not have explained myself very well because I was actually sneaking onto the forums from work lol. When I said it's 'Sad but true' I was generally refering to the issue of : 'Why are there complaints about anders and not about isabella?'

I was trying to point out that most gamers are guys and there are more straight guys than gay guys. I think that the rate that our society has been progressing is such that most people (Whether you're asking a gamer or nongamer) expect video games to cater in large part to that demographic.

And let's face it. These companies are trying to run a profitable business. They had no particular reason to make as many games that cater to women, or the gay community because they were simply making a product that would be enjoyed by as much of their target demographic as possible. I.E. single teenage boys.

Thankfully game designers are slooowly begining to realise that the gaming community is growing with every passing year both in size and scope. More and more people you'd never consider your quintessential gamer call themselves gamers.

However, I don't think it is unfair to say that if you asked someone who was gay, lesbien, bi, other,- if they truly believed that there were many game producers out there who would create adult-orriented games that catered to their demographic, most would probably say they had their doubts. This is the part that is sad but true. For now. I COMPLETELY agree that this is unnacceptible, and frankly would love to see more games that pushed the envelope; more games that were targeted toward a mature audience rather than just 'ages 13+'.

Oh, I understand what you mean, and I agree that a company has a responsibility to its stockholders to not take foolish risks. I just don't think we're talking about a foolish risk here. I think that there are probably relatively few people for whom the inclusion of same sex content is a dealbreaker, as loud and plaintive as their cries are around here. I mean, let's face it, I despise Tali, but I tolerate her presence in the game. And I can't avoid Tali. Romance content can be avoided if you don't want it, and I think that's good enough for most people, even most moderately homophobic people. But to take a progressive stance on this issue could have a positive effect that far outweighs losing those turgidly homophobic haters as customers. You open up new possible audiences, not just among gays and whatnot, but among people who just aren't gamers because they think gaming is only for kids or males. It's always good to err on the side of taking a worthwhile risk. You know what they say, "no guts, no glory". A safe-as-milk retread of the last nine game-of-the-year titles isn't going to generate a bit of buzz, I can tell you that. But a bit of the right kind of controversy is going to create awareness, and I guarantee you that some of that awareness will translate directly into dollars and cents.

[catabuca]

OMG. *cries*

Following on from my 'how on earth do you get rivalry with Anders' crisis, I thought, I know, I'll go and talk to Cullen, that will net me some rivalry points.

I actually picked the option that said "I support the Templars". And guess what? +5 friendship from Fenris. NO RIVALRY FROM ANDERS.

*cries*

You people who don't want to have sex with Anders don't know how good you've got it. Seriously. What I wouldn't give right now for an easy +15 rivalry hit.

[Finis Valorum]

cedgedc wrote...

However, I don't think it is unfair to say that if you asked someone who was gay, lesbien, bi, other,- if they truly believed that there were many game producers out there who would create adult-orriented games that catered to their demographic, most would probably say they had their doubts. This is the part that is sad but true. For now. I COMPLETELY agree that this is unnacceptible, and frankly would love to see more games that pushed the envelope; more games that were targeted toward a mature audience rather than just 'ages 13+'.

I would definitely love see more games marketed at a mature or even adult only audience and I think that just might happen in the coming decades as sales from brick and mortar stores like Walmart who absolutely refuse to carry anything targeted at adults only begin to account for less and less of the total pie.

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

it'd be out of character for kaidan to start hitting on male shepard. theres absolutely ZERO sexual tension or chemistry between kaidan and male shepard, so why would that suddenly change years later?

i dunno, its alittle late in an established series to start changing characters. i'm all for there being gay/bi characters in ME3, but changing characters around is not the way to do it. using kaidan as my primary example, it would feel EXTREMELY forced and unnatural for him to suddenly start hitting on male shepard when there was nothing to indicate that might be a possibility in the previous games. theres just no in-game references to it in any way. so why force an established character to be bi? why not introduce a new bi character or something? whats wrong with that?

I'm sure most people would be happy if they would just provide a new character. But your opinion that thus-and-such would be out of character, well, that's your opinion. I don't think it strains credibility at all. I mean, there were these two dextro-amino-acid aliens on my ship in the first game. One was a droning litany of All Things Geth, the other was a frustrated cop. Suddenly, in my second game, Buckethead and Claw Hammer are clamoring for opposite-sex Shepard's lovin'. Okay, I wouldn't have seen that coming, but not exactly a game-breaking twist of plausibility. And for Ash or Kaidan to finally realize that they have feelings for same-sex Shepard? Not game breaking. Not implausible in the least. After all, at least they're all HUMAN. Humans are weird like that. The more we try to put labels on them, the more those labels dry up and peel away.

[Siansonea]

catabuca wrote...

OMG. *cries*

Following on from my 'how on earth do you get rivalry with Anders' crisis, I thought, I know, I'll go and talk to Cullen, that will net me some rivalry points.

I actually picked the option that said "I support the Templars". And guess what? +5 friendship from Fenris. NO RIVALRY FROM ANDERS.

*cries*

You people who don't want to have sex with Anders don't know how good you've got it. Seriously. What I wouldn't give right now for an easy +15 rivalry hit.

Have you tried telling him you're allergic to cats?

[catabuca]

Clonedzero wrote...

it'd be out of character for kaidan to start hitting on male shepard. theres absolutely ZERO sexual tension or chemistry between kaidan and male shepard, so why would that suddenly change years later?

i dunno, its alittle late in an established series to start changing characters. i'm all for there being gay/bi characters in ME3, but changing characters around is not the way to do it. using kaidan as my primary example, it would feel EXTREMELY forced and unnatural for him to suddenly start hitting on male shepard when there was nothing to indicate that might be a possibility in the previous games. theres just no in-game references to it in any way. so why force an established character to be bi? why not introduce a new bi character or something? whats wrong with that?

Oh boy. 

Quite apart from my whole 'it's subjective' and 'one doesn't need to express one's interest in the same sex at a particular point in their lives in order to be gay/bisexual' shtick up there -- which also came with a real life example from someone I lived with, no less ^^ (and if you'd like I could pull out my handy Gaider!quote to the same effect), I couldn't count the amount of people I've seen post in these forums over the past couple of years who would disagree with your assessment. Sexual tension? It was there in bucket-loads. Of course, just as I say your opinion is subjective, so is mine. 

Anyway, there is nothing wrong at all with introducing a new character. No one has ever said there was. Some of us, however, just take umbridge at the idea that you may only be regarded as bisexual or gay if you state it explicitly. Straight people do not need to fulfill the same requirement in order to be 'believable' as straight, since we generally assume someone is straight until proven otherwise. That's a problematic approach.

[cedgedc]

@Siansonea II Well put, and yes I think you'll find that my desired end product is quite similar to your own! And I would agree that games that target adult gamers are indeed going to become an increasingly attractive investment for many companies.

Let's face it. People's expectations- regardless of demographic- continue to go up. They want games that target them. Fact 2- the internet has desensitized most of us pretty much beyond repair So games that start pushing the envelope with mature themes will be demanded, and the companies that get on board and provide them will surely be well rewarded for the effort.

I just feel that it is valid to recognize that we're not quite there yet. I want to get there, but if you're going to push the status quo, it doesn't hurt to have an understanding of what it is, so you know where to apply the pressure and how hard to push.

I mean let's face it. Mass Effect and bioware games in general are among the more adult themed rpg's you can find, if not the most. Yet they are still so sexually repressed in so many ways. You can see people get cut apart, devoured, mutilated. You can see scenes of gore and nightmarish monstrosity, and yet you go to a strip club and see strippers covered from neck to toe lol.

@Finis Valorum Agreed. I hope that's where we're headed!