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[Hawkeye121]

I support his idea for ME3 whole-heartedly (<- is that spelled correctly?), anyway this is a great idea. 100% support, because if I was a chick I would totally be a lesbian... Hey Liara where you at? 

-Hawk

[Weltenschlange]

catabuca wrote...
Mark Meer approves of this thread.

Wow! He looks totally fabulous as Susanna.

[lolfanboi]

''No, most of us would like the former bisexual squadmates to be reimplemented, this includes, Tali, Thane, Jack and Kaidan. (someone correct me on that if I'm wrong) We also wouldn't mind a BRAND NEW character. Please share your thoughts in the poll or topic if you have any ideas for people.'

They were gay?

[RadioactiveSpider]

@lolfanboi

Someone correct me if I got it wrong. AFAIK, Kaidan, Ash, Tali and Thane were planned to be bi, it seems, but the s/s versions were simply disabled or cut. Jack seems like a likely candidate as she talks about her past with a girl and a guy. I think Manshep has a few unique lines for Kaidan. You can see them on youtube.

That would indicate planning, animating, and partially voicing the romances and then dropping them before completion in ME. And then doing the same for ME2, though to a lesser extent.

Modifié par RadioactiveSpider, 04 avril 2011 - 03:09 .

[android654]

lolfanboi wrote...

''No, most of us would like the former bisexual squadmates to be reimplemented, this includes, Tali, Thane, Jack and Kaidan. (someone correct me on that if I'm wrong) We also wouldn't mind a BRAND NEW character. Please share your thoughts in the poll or topic if you have any ideas for people.'

They were gay?

You forgto Ashley

[Mephistorian]

Not much I despise more than people who think it's ok for women to be lesbians, but for men to be gay is just an atrocity (about %90 of straight hormonal teenage males). I'm probably exaggerating with that statistic. I digress. I support the idea of homosexuality in ME3.

[catabuca]

Weltenschlange wrote...

catabuca wrote...
Mark Meer approves of this thread.

Wow! He looks totally fabulous as Susanna.

ngl, it's oddly arousing.

I've said too much ...

[Siansonea]

lolfanboi wrote...

''No, most of us would like the former bisexual squadmates to be reimplemented, this includes, Tali, Thane, Jack and Kaidan. (someone correct me on that if I'm wrong) We also wouldn't mind a BRAND NEW character. Please share your thoughts in the poll or topic if you have any ideas for people.'

They were gay?

No, they weren't gay. They were BISEXUAL in the planning stages of the games (at least Kaidan and Ashley were, I dunno about Thane, Tali, and Jack).
Bisexual means that they were open to a relationship with Shepard of either sex.
Gay means they are open to a relationship with same-sex Shepard ONLY. No character has been designed so far to be exclusively gay in any Mass Effect game as far as I know.

[android654]

Siansonea II wrote...

lolfanboi wrote...

''No, most of us would like the former bisexual squadmates to be reimplemented, this includes, Tali, Thane, Jack and Kaidan. (someone correct me on that if I'm wrong) We also wouldn't mind a BRAND NEW character. Please share your thoughts in the poll or topic if you have any ideas for people.'

They were gay?

No, they weren't gay. They were BISEXUAL in the planning stages of the games (at least Kaidan and Ashley were, I dunno about Thane, Tali, and Jack).
Bisexual means that they were open to a relationship with Shepard of either sex.
Gay means they are open to a relationship with same-sex Shepard ONLY. No character has been designed so far to be exclusively gay in any Mass Effect game as far as I know.

Not to be anal about it, but since you're the only other li for any npc, they would be gay depending on your shepard, not bi.

[Siansonea]

android654 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

lolfanboi wrote...

''No, most of us would like the former bisexual squadmates to be reimplemented, this includes, Tali, Thane, Jack and Kaidan. (someone correct me on that if I'm wrong) We also wouldn't mind a BRAND NEW character. Please share your thoughts in the poll or topic if you have any ideas for people.'

They were gay?

No, they weren't gay. They were BISEXUAL in the planning stages of the games (at least Kaidan and Ashley were, I dunno about Thane, Tali, and Jack).
Bisexual means that they were open to a relationship with Shepard of either sex.
Gay means they are open to a relationship with same-sex Shepard ONLY. No character has been designed so far to be exclusively gay in any Mass Effect game as far as I know.

Not to be anal about it, but since you're the only other li for any npc, they would be gay depending on your shepard, not bi.

I disagree. Anders is Anders, Kaidan is Kaidan, Merrill is Merrill, etc. Just because they fall for a man in one playthrough doesn't mean that they ONLY like men. The fact that they could fall for a woman in another playthrough means that the character could fall for a person of either gender. And that equals bisexual. There aren't multiple versions of these characters, they only respond to the variables introduced by the player character. Their existing personalities and backgrounds aren't being changed.

[catabuca]

android654 wrote...


Not to be anal about it, but since you're the only other li for any npc, they would be gay depending on your shepard, not bi.

Not to be anal about it, but unless they specified one way or the other, they could be gay or bisexual however you interpret them to be in any given playthrough. Just because they might be with Shepard in the game, doesn't mean they might not also find members of the opposite sex attractive as well.

Just sayin'

Regardless, we tend to use the word 'bisexual' in these debates as short-hand for 'available to be romanced by either gender of player-character'. Because otherwise it gets to be one hell of a mouthfull. Same with the 'They're All BI!' stuff that was going on before the release of DA2: those would have been some cluttered banners and forum signatures had we explained what we meant by bisexual all the time.

[android654]

Okay, calm down girls, there's only enough room for one of you to jump down my throat at a time.

The romance portion of DA2 are truly unique, and doesn't comapare to the Mass Effect version.

I'm merely saying it because If you're a femshep and deny Ashley's advances, she doesn't go for anyone else, nor mentions any past romantic entanglements with men, its centered entirely on you. Therefore, as far as we know: Maleshep = gay Kaidan, straight Ashley, Femshep = straight Kaidan, Gay Ashley.

[catabuca]

android654 wrote...

Okay, calm down girls, there's only enough room for one of you to jump down my throat at a time.

The romance portion of DA2 are truly unique, and doesn't comapare to the Mass Effect version.

I'm merely saying it because If you're a femshep and deny Ashley's advances, she doesn't go for anyone else, nor mentions any past romantic entanglements with men, its centered entirely on you. Therefore, as far as we know: Maleshep = gay Kaidan, straight Ashley, Femshep = straight Kaidan, Gay Ashley.

Not jumping down your throat hun, hence the

Oh yeah, it's totally up to the player to infer what they wish in that situation. It's just that you said 'actually they'd be gay', that's why I mentioned it. But it seems you meant to say what I replied with anyway, so that's cool.

The way I see it, just because Kaidan wouldn't be able to hook up with fShep in a mShep run doesn't mean he has to be gay, but the player is certainly free to imagine him as such if they wish. The lack of a woman for him to fall for doesn't mean he doesn't like women too, of course. But unless he makes a statement either way, run with whatever makes sense to you. (I guess you could read the Rahna story as platonic love, or a phase, or a blip, or a one-off, if you so desired.)

In my head!canon, my mShep is gay, and Kaidan is bisexual. My fShep is bisexual, and the fact she always hooks up with Kaidan in my games doesn't diminish that in any way -- it doesn't make her straight, it makes her bisexual and currently with Kaidan.

[Siansonea]

android654 wrote...

Okay, calm down girls, there's only enough room for one of you to jump down my throat at a time.

The romance portion of DA2 are truly unique, and doesn't comapare to the Mass Effect version.

I'm merely saying it because If you're a femshep and deny Ashley's advances, she doesn't go for anyone else, nor mentions any past romantic entanglements with men, its centered entirely on you. Therefore, as far as we know: Maleshep = gay Kaidan, straight Ashley, Femshep = straight Kaidan, Gay Ashley.

I don't see how anything I posted previously could be construed as remotely histrionic, so there's no need to 'calm down'. I'm already calm, for what it's worth. I do take issue with the condescending tone of the 'calm down' comment, but I do so calmly.

There is a flaw in your argument. You're defining the character's entire sexuality based on one relationship: the relationship with Shepard. Kaidan had a crush on a Rahna, a girl at Brain Camp, and who knows what else he's been up to in his 32 years of life before he meets Shepard. And Ashley, well, we know almost nothing about her romantic past. There could be men and other women in Ashley's history. So to say that Kaidan Is Gay because he's with MaleShep? Not accurate. It is accurate to say they are in a gay relationship, but to label them as exclusively gay is rather misleading, even if it is convenient shorthand for some.

Personally I don't buy into the idea of the characters having unique personalities based on the playthrough. They are who they are. But a person isn't defined by their sexuality, as much as many people would like to think that this is true. So Kaidan who goes for MaleShep is not fundamentally a different Kaidan than the one who goes for FemShep. It's the same Kaidan. It's just the variables introduced by Shepard's presence in Kaidan's life that influence how Kaidan develops from the time he meets Shepard. Rahna doesn't suddenly become Ronnie. Shepard is who Shepard is, and people either respond to it or they don't. Bisexual characters won't let Shepard's gender be an obstacle to their affections, only gay and straight characters will have a preference of one Shepard over the other.

[android654]

@Siansonea II

relax, it was a joke.

catabuca wrote...

android654 wrote...

Okay, calm down girls, there's only enough room for one of you to jump down my throat at a time.

The romance portion of DA2 are truly unique, and doesn't comapare to the Mass Effect version.

I'm merely saying it because If you're a femshep and deny Ashley's advances, she doesn't go for anyone else, nor mentions any past romantic entanglements with men, its centered entirely on you. Therefore, as far as we know: Maleshep = gay Kaidan, straight Ashley, Femshep = straight Kaidan, Gay Ashley.

Not jumping down your throat hun, hence the

Oh yeah, it's totally up to the player to infer what they wish in that situation. It's just that you said 'actually they'd be gay', that's why I mentioned it. But it seems you meant to say what I replied with anyway, so that's cool.

The way I see it, just because Kaidan wouldn't be able to hook up with fShep in a mShep run doesn't mean he has to be gay, but the player is certainly free to imagine him as such if they wish. The lack of a woman for him to fall for doesn't mean he doesn't like women too, of course. But unless he makes a statement either way, run with whatever makes sense to you. (I guess you could read the Rahna story as platonic love, or a phase, or a blip, or a one-off, if you so desired.)

In my head!canon, my mShep is gay, and Kaidan is bisexual. My fShep is bisexual, and the fact she always hooks up with Kaidan in my games doesn't diminish that in any way -- it doesn't make her straight, it makes her bisexual and currently with Kaidan.

I get the point you're making, but without a whole lot of backstory or even dialogue to support it, everyone is doing a bit of assuming.

Modifié par android654, 04 avril 2011 - 07:28 .

[Tarek]

I support again

[catabuca]

android654 wrote...

I get the point you're making, but without a whole lot of backstory or even dialogue to support it, everyone is doing a bit of assuming.

Yeah, that's the point though, right? It could be left open enough to assume whatever we want, and there is no right or wrong, no definites, unless the game states it explicitly.

So let's say a male LI, for example, was written as a romance available to either gender of Shepard. If he only ever expresses his interest in Shepard, and not in any other characters in the game, we can be free to imagine he is gay or straight in that run, depending on the gender of our Shepard. However, it would be erroneous to say the game itself was stating he was definitely gay or straight, unless it had him say a line to that effect. We could assume he was gay, for example, but we could also assume he was bisexual if we wanted. If there is nothing in the game that hangs a sign around his neck attesting to one orientation to the exclusion of another, it's all down to us. This is more or less how it's handled in DA2, and it works for me.

Of course, you can also assume that the fact this LI could romance either a fShep or a mShep it means they are bisexual. Again, this is fine if you want to use that as a reasoning behind it, but again, the beauty of that system is that it leaves it ultimately down to the player to infer what they wish, with whatever makes most sense for them. I think that's pretty cool.

[Siansonea]

android654 wrote...

@Siansonea II

relax, it was a joke.

Once again, my equanimity is not disturbed, I am calm and relaxed. I can, however, comment on your posts without a discernible rise in blood pressure, etc. I think you should revisit your expression of humor, since you seem to be misfiring in that area from what I can see. Perhaps this forum would be better served if you refrain from attempts at humor, since these attempts seem to be construed differently from your intent. We want to keep misunderstandings to a minimum in this thread, it tends to be contentious enough even when everyone's views are perfectly clear.

[Biotic_Warlock]

You know adding to the bisexual part... you could have a companion who is only either gay or straight... or both... and you can choose whilst installing or something.

Or dependant on character gender or something (don't mean they bi... just available as romance - okay that sounds confusing)

If it was optional... then i suppose nobody would moan.

As long as i get to have gay content im all happy.
nevermind what the 'haters' think.

[M8DMAN]

Weltenschlange wrote...

catabuca wrote...
Mark Meer approves of this thread.

Wow! He looks totally fabulous as Susanna.

So is Mark Meer gay? Just wondering, I wouldn't care if he was or not.

[android654]

@Siansonea II

catabuca seemed to get it. Perhaps the humor is merely lost on you.

@catabuca

I agree it is the shinning accomplishment of DA2. A similar approach would please just about all of us and dismiss and arguments of "appeasing the minority."

[android654]

M8DMAN wrote...

Weltenschlange wrote...

catabuca wrote...
Mark Meer approves of this thread.

Wow! He looks totally fabulous as Susanna.

So is Mark Meer gay? Just wondering, I wouldn't care if he was or not.

Think he's got a wife. Did you wonder because that picture made you feel funny? It's ok if it did, I won't judge you.

[Biotic_Warlock]

I agree it is the shinning accomplishment of DA2. A similar approach would please just about all of us and dismiss and arguments of "appeasing the minority."

I think just appeasing the minority is a little offensive to some really - though idk who said this phrase - they should be afraid... be very afraid...

The point is gay content should be there because it is normal in society to be ****** or hetero - not just because it would make the 'minority happy'.

The fact they added the content to DA2 (minus any exiting romance scenes) was both suprising and brilliant - and i hope they do so to all future games.

Feel the love, man!

[catabuca]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

You know adding to the bisexual part... you could have a companion who is only either gay or straight... or both... and you can choose whilst installing or something.

Or dependant on character gender or something (don't mean they bi... just available as romance - okay that sounds confusing)

If it was optional... then i suppose nobody would moan.

As long as i get to have gay content im all happy.
nevermind what the 'haters' think.

oof, bio, choosing whether you want the gay or not in your game at the beginning is such a bad idea (this is what started that unfortunate thread in the DA2 forums and the subsequent media attention, remember? The guy asking for a 'no homos' button). If it's going to be there, it should be there alongside all other romance content, on an equal footing. Keep it simple ... romances done all in exactly the same way, with some (or all, I woulnd't complain) available regardless of the gender you choose for your Shep (just like in DA2).

And yes, Meer is married. I have no idea if he is straight or bi though. I'm not particularly bothered. All I care about is that he appears to have amazing legs.

[Biotic_Warlock]

catabuca wrote...
oof, bio, choosing whether you want the gay or not in your game at the beginning is such a bad idea (this is what started that unfortunate thread in the DA2 forums and the subsequent media attention, remember? The guy asking for a 'no homos' button). If it's going to be there, it should be there alongside all other romance content, on an equal footing. Keep it simple ... romances done all in exactly the same way, with some (or all, I woulnd't complain) available regardless of the gender you choose for your Shep (just like in DA2).

Oh well well you put it that way - i guess that makes sense