9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Blacklash93]

It was originally intended for Mass Effect 1, but was cut due to time constraints.

In ME2, they just decided to not do it. Three romance options per gender and there's no excuse from there.

[catabuca]

No, they haven't officially given a reason. There may have been murmurings about time constraints during ME1 ... but I'm not sure.

Given the DA team's affirmation that it is little work or cost to implement a s/s option with an LI that already exists for an opposite sex PC, I find myself scratching my head at that one (when someone from the DA team was told that someone from the ME team said it would take too much work to implement, the DA team member was, surprised, shall we say).

It really is difficult to see it as anything other than 'they're worried of pissing off the shooter boys' ... given the lack of any kind of honest, meaningful dialogue. A couple of unfortunate and illogical comments in an interview is all we have ("Shep is pre-defined; this is a 3rd person narrative; it's a PG-13 game; and anyway, the Asari aren't female so femShep isn't a lesbian;") and they don't make the picture any clearer unfortunately.

I think it's clear there is no gender equality in the ME universe, there is no equality in terms of the way orientation is displayed, and there is little use in asking for clarification as to why because none has been given for 4 years regardless of pleas.

[Blacklash93]

... Have they really used the PG-13 excuse? Really?

The 3rd-person narrative and pre-defined stuff they've been throwing out doesn't rule out Shep being gay even if it were true in every sense they present it as.

At the end of the day, it's Bioware's decision to include something or not. Not some obscure narrative philosophy or design.

[Maugrim]

Nyoka wrote...

catabuca wrote...

A couple of unfortunate and illogical comments in an interview is all we have ("Shep is pre-defined; this is a 3rd person narrative; it's a PG-13 game; and anyway, the Asari aren't female so femShep isn't a lesbian;") and they don't make the picture any clearer unfortunately.

Okay, that's a reason for not doing it, but it's not a reason for doing it and then cutting it out. The cutting out part--what exactly made them change their minds--is what needs some explaining.

Well that one is pretty easy to answer.

1.)  Have the voice actor record everything you can think of regardless of possibility of use.  It's a lot cheaper, essentially free even, compared to the cost of calling them back in to record another seesion along with the techs and various other people that need to be around.  Plus travel costs, equipment/space rentals etc.

2.) It's a lot easier to dummy things out than to remove it completely from a disc/program.  It's also a lot safer because it's less likely to cause game breaking bugs etc.  All that cool cut stuff that we find hidden in games?  Not there because they want to leave in easter eggs, it's just easier and safer.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 10 avril 2011 - 11:31 .

[DrBobcat]

Nyoka wrote...

catabuca wrote...

A couple of unfortunate and illogical comments in an interview is all we have ("Shep is pre-defined; this is a 3rd person narrative; it's a PG-13 game; and anyway, the Asari aren't female so femShep isn't a lesbian;") and they don't make the picture any clearer unfortunately.

Okay, that's a reason for not doing it, but it's not a reason for doing it and then cutting it out. The cutting out part--what exactly made them change their minds--is what needs some explaining.

We've been trying to figure that out for a long, long time. Many here believe that they had originally considered implementing S/S content but then backpedaled. In ME1, the excuse was that they did not have the resources. In ME2, well... see what Catabuca said. I agree with you, it's not much of an explanation at all. Rather, they're dodging the question and raising more. This is actually where a lot of my frustration stems from. It isn't the lack of S/S romance that bothers me, but how they've responded to our questions.

They could've simply said, "we didn't feel like it this time around" or "we decided to channel our resources elsewhere." In my opinion, that's at least somewhat better than "the game is supposed to feel like a PG-13 action film" or "Shepard is a pre-defined character." The former approach results in at least some closure, while the latter renders us confused and even offended.

I sure as hell wasn't happy when I was told my character was straight, especially when there's no (explicit) evidence backing that claim. That I was told this months after ME2's release doesn't help things either. Maybe I'll cut BW some slack and attribute it to nervousness and a lack of preparation. Then again, they've had plenty of time to clarify their thoughts on the matter and haven't said a single word.

EDIT: Was ninja'd by makenzie, it seems. If you're looking for technical reasons, see her post. However, if it really is easy to record the dialogue, what excuse do they have for not going the extra mile to implement a full-blown romance? The "resources" argument doesn't hold as much water considerng they dramatically increased the number of romance options available in ME2. In the first game, there were two options for each sex (one being shared between them). Yet, in the second, there were three unique romances available to each sex. While I'm happy they decided to offer players more options (that's never a bad thing), it sort of undermines the claim that they didn't have the time or money do explore "other routes."

Obviously, they had different priorities and I can accept that. That being said, I cannot and will not accept hollow excuses. We're adults here. Be upfront with us.

Modifié par DrBobcat, 10 avril 2011 - 11:38 .

[Maugrim]

I like to think there is a secret gay cabal at Bioware that makes sure Jennifer Hale and Mark Meer record as much of the S/S lines as possible and programs them into the game so PC player can at least get half a taste of S/S romances from mods/hacks/etc.

They're kinda doing a ****** poor job of it though

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 10 avril 2011 - 11:30 .

[MrGone]

Personally I don't care really if Shepard is gay. But at this point there is one big problem: continuity.

Shepard can in ME1 only be three options: Straight male, Straight female, or Gay female (kinda sorta).

Shepard in ME2 can only be three options: Straight male, straight female, or with DLC/very evil choice be a Gay female.

There is unfortunately an already established sexuality among these these three options: Shepar is 66% straight, and 33% a gay woman, or just a woman with a thing for Asari.

To bring in total gay options now might be a bit awkward, not due to sexual orientation politics or taste, but just for continuity.

Though I guess there could be a line of dialogue about Shepard feeling constrained by his/her military position before. . . or feeling like they were leading a lie. Hmmm.

OK fine, then you have my support, but only if:

Should you have had a straight romance in either game, Shepard must justify this choice with dialogue that makes sense and not ignore the continuity issue (this would drive me insane, as well as any fan of timelines that make sense), and most likely recieve an extreme amount of renegade points. Not for being gay, but for seriously screwing with the heart of whomever they were romancing before hand. With the possible exception of Liara, who probably views sexuality rather differently considering she's both an Asari AND mono-gendered.

[Blacklash93]

They've really used the PG-13 thing as an excuse? Is there a link to that? Pretty sure I see a bi "M" in the corner of my box.

[Saeran]

MrGone wrote...

Personally I don't care really if Shepard is gay. But at this point there is one big problem: continuity.

Shepard can in ME1 only be three options: Straight male, Straight female, or Gay female (kinda sorta).

Shepard in ME2 can only be three options: Straight male, straight female, or with DLC/very evil choice be a Gay female.

There is unfortunately an already established sexuality among these these three options: Shepar is 66% straight, and 33% a gay woman, or just a woman with a thing for Asari.

To bring in total gay options now might be a bit awkward, not due to sexual orientation politics or taste, but just for continuity.

Though I guess there could be a line of dialogue about Shepard feeling constrained by his/her military position before. . . or feeling like they were leading a lie. Hmmm.

OK fine, then you have my support, but only if:

Should you have had a straight romance in either game, Shepard must justify this choice with dialogue that makes sense and not ignore the continuity issue (this would drive me insane, as well as any fan of timelines that make sense), and most likely recieve an extreme amount of renegade points. Not for being gay, but for seriously screwing with the heart of whomever they were romancing before hand. With the possible exception of Liara, who probably views sexuality rather differently considering she's both an Asari AND mono-gendered.

My Shepard didn't romance anyone because apparently no one is gay. There's no continuity issues in my playthrough I can assure you.

[Blacklash93]

MrGone wrote...

Asari are female. The codex says so. Mono-gendered means "one gender" and not "no gender" or "different gender". An Asari does not see sexuality like humans do, but a human most definitely would. A fem-shep interested in Liara is most certainly attracted to what she would percieve as a woman. And Kelly is undeniable no matter how you twist it.

And there is no continuity to the sexuality besides what options were presented in ME1 and 2. A gay Shepard simply had no options. I doubt gay players, the people who care about this content, would care about this continuity of romance options, either. They'd just be happy to finally have it.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 10 avril 2011 - 11:42 .

[JediMB]

MrGone wrote...

OK fine, then you have my support, but only if:

Should you have had a straight romance in either game, Shepard must justify this choice with dialogue that makes sense and not ignore the continuity issue (this would drive me insane, as well as any fan of timelines that make sense), and most likely recieve an extreme amount of renegade points. Not for being gay, but for seriously screwing with the heart of whomever they were romancing before hand. With the possible exception of Liara, who probably views sexuality rather differently considering she's both an Asari AND mono-gendered.

I don't see why any justification would be needed. If one particular Shepard had a heterosexual relationship in one game, and a homosexual relationship in another, then s-/he is probably bisexual.

I'm sure a few FemShep players have already done this. Either romanced Kaidan in ME1 and gone with Kelly in ME2, or romanced Liara in ME1 and Jacob/Thane/Garrus in ME2.

[bluuberg]

I have experienced the majority of the ME/2 romances, and enjoyed them for the most part. They're well written and hit the right buttons. But I would definitely have enjoyed them more with a Shep that's allowed to be gay (other than celibate). All this being more glaringly obvious after playing DA2 where I could be and romance whoever I want, it felt nice to be able to play myself in a character.

And then to go back to the restrictions of ME...I will still greatly enjoy ME3 and its story either way. Which is what EA and Bioware is probably counting on, why change a good thing that they have going on? But it would be an incredibly awesome thing if that choice was given to us.

[KawaiiKatie]

Saeran wrote...

My Shepard didn't romance anyone because apparently no one is gay. There's no continuity issues in my playthrough I can assure you.

Same here. I've a gay male Shepard who hasn't romanced anyone, because apparently he's the only gay man in space. No continuity error whatsoever.

And if they add a same-sex romance for him in ME3, I trust Bioware to make it fit the story. If it's Kaidan or Thane or someone else who was "planned" to be bisexual but removed, I'm sure that there will be a fun dialogue option for "I didn't know you felt that way!" or something. It could totally fit in a non-modded continuity.

And if a new guy shows up who happens to be bisexual? HUZZAH! That fits even better! Because now gay male Shepards can flirt with someone! No continuity errors in the least! The story then becomes, "I'm Commander Shepard, I'm gay, and I finally met Mr. Right!"

[MrGone]

JediMB wrote...

MrGone wrote...

OK fine, then you have my support, but only if:

Should you have had a straight romance in either game, Shepard must justify this choice with dialogue that makes sense and not ignore the continuity issue (this would drive me insane, as well as any fan of timelines that make sense), and most likely recieve an extreme amount of renegade points. Not for being gay, but for seriously screwing with the heart of whomever they were romancing before hand. With the possible exception of Liara, who probably views sexuality rather differently considering she's both an Asari AND mono-gendered.

I don't see why any justification would be needed. If one particular Shepard had a heterosexual relationship in one game, and a homosexual relationship in another, then s-/he is probably bisexual.

I'm sure a few FemShep players have already done this. Either romanced Kaidan in ME1 and gone with Kelly in ME2, or romanced Liara in ME1 and Jacob/Thane/Garrus in ME2.

One can live a closeted life, getting married and having sex with the opposite gender and then turn out to be gay without necessarily being bisexual. To me that's the most dramatic outcome, and considering this is a space-opera melodrama, would make the most sense to include in addition to a bisexual option.

[KawaiiKatie]

MrGone wrote...

Should you have had a straight romance in either game, Shepard must justify this choice with dialogue that makes sense and not ignore the continuity issue (this would drive me insane, as well as any fan of timelines that make sense), and most likely recieve an extreme amount of renegade points. Not for being gay, but for seriously screwing with the heart of whomever they were romancing before hand.

I think if you change love-interests, no matter their gender, Bioware's going to have a fun way of role-playing the situation. DA:O did a really great job of this, especially when you were a man who left Leliana, a woman, for Zevran, a man. She asks if you've always liked men, and you can answer yes or no. Her reactions are fun.

For some reason, I can really imagine this happening between Miranda and male!Shepard... Say a bisexual man character is introduced, and Shepard descides he wants to leave Miranda for the new guy.... Oh man, Miranda would try to be so clinical about it, but also heartbroken and trying not to show it... Oh my, how fun it would be!

Again, if you had a ME1 romance but left him/her for someone else in ME2, the resulting roleplay is going to be fun, and you know it. If you have an ME1 or ME2 romance and decide to go after someone else in ME3, that's also going to be fun, of that I have no doubt. And if you decide to drop your heterosexual romance for a homosexual one... oh boy, let the good times roll!

[KawaiiKatie]

(Double post! Sorry.)

Oh, but while I'm here, did anybody see Jarrett Lee's quote on the Tali thread a day or two ago?

Jarrett Lee wrote...

I can tell you guys that we're pretty aware of Tali's popularity...we pay more attention than you think

For some reason, this gives me hope for same-sex romances! Though we may not get the same amount of attention on these boards as Talimancers, I think that Bioware definitely pays attention, and that they know how much it would mean to us to see same-sex content in ME3. At least, that's what I like to think!

It gives me hope, Fighters. It gives me hope. <3

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 11 avril 2011 - 12:17 .

[Blacklash93]

Hope is your enemy.

[bluuberg]

It's better to have no hope and be pleasantly surprised.

*hopes to be pleasantly surprised*

Damn...I broke my own rule..

Modifié par blue.o7, 11 avril 2011 - 12:49 .

[android654]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Hope is your enemy.

Agreed. It is rather foolish to think they're going to make this big of a change at the end of the franchise. I'm pretty sure this one's been lost.

[KawaiiKatie]

....I find your lack of faith disturbing...

Okay, okay, maybe it's too much to say that I'm hopeful.... rather, I'm caustiously optimistic!

[Maugrim]

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

Sappy, trite, cliche as hell but most importantly true.

Just by chance I happened to be rereading the DA2 romances announcement thread for fun and I had the sudden urge to PM the jerks who doubted the movement no matter how much evidence was shown. Now I know we have a hell of a lot less reason to hope here but I won't stop hoping, pushing and fighting for the love.

Maybe we'll get fair treatment, maybe we won't only time will tell.

[KawaiiKatie]

makenzieshepard wrote...

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

Sappy, trite, cliche as hell but most importantly true.

You make me happy. <3

Just by chance I happened to be rereading the DA2 romances announcement thread for fun and I had the sudden urge to PM the jerks who doubted the movement no matter how much evidence was shown.

At the same time, remember all of those people who said "I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than horribly disappointed"? I can sympathize. It really hurts to get your hopes up and have have them dashed... But I still prefer hope. For example, I was hopeful for a DLC with the Virmire Survivor, and even though we didn't get one, I'm not so put off by the taste of disappointment that I won't hope for other things Bioware never promised to provide.

Now I know we have a hell of a lot less reason to hope here but I won't stop hoping, pushing and fighting for the love.

LOVE IT! I'M RIGHT THERE WITH YOU!

[Blacklash93]

blue.o7 wrote...

It's better to have no hope and be pleasantly surprised.

*hopes to be pleasantly surprised*

Damn...I broke my own rule..

Too true. None of us will be able to escape this.

[Dark Eff3ct]

I will remain hopeful and hopefully being hopeful won't backfire on me