9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Emyer]

jlb524 wrote...

Emyer wrote...

I kinda like that the characters have defined sexualities, stuff like Jack saying she "isn't part of the girls' club"(Why does she always think my Sheps are hitting on her?! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF) ads a bit more character to her I think

Why, exactly?

Considering that some straight LIs like Tali or Ashley never bring up their sexuality is it a detriment to their character?

What does that have to do with anything ? I didn't say it was detrimental when characters don't bring up their sexuality I said it added to their personalities when they do, might sound similar but it isn't.

[Ryzaki]

Creator001 wrote...
In DA2 it was hard enough to avoid cowardly action between man, simply cous it was there! Every time i tryed to make friendly conversation - gay-talk poped up! How can you respect that character and continue working towards better relations when you know he might grab your ass out of the blue?!

...Uh...no. 

No one. And I repeat no one tried to force a kiss/romance scene on Hawke without Hawke pressing one of those big ol' glowing hearts.  


Oh noes. Someone hit on you. Well females hit on my male Hawke too and I didn't scream and stop respecting them. Just shut the romance down and continue moving on. If you hit the broken heart icon even *once* it should've stopped all flirting attempts. 

You're just complaining to complain. It wasn't difficult you were just too lazy to bother stopping it. I'm not going to cry a river over you being to lazy to bother stopping content that you had no intention of using from appearing. 

If you can't understand the heart symbol. You need to be doing things other than playing the game. (Like reading the manual.) 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 avril 2011 - 10:54 .

[catabuca]

Emyer wrote...

I kinda like that the characters have defined sexualities, stuff like Jack saying she "isn't part of the girls' club"(Why does she always think my Sheps are hitting on her?! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF) ads a bit more character to her I think, I don't at all oppose bisexual characters like Isabela, Fenris, Merrill, Leliana, Zevran, etc... but when they change characters or make them "playersexual" just to pander I don't appreciate it , like Anders, apparently his sexuality is wholly dependent on which set of genitalia the character I roll has...

The way it should be done, imo, is give the player the opportunity to flirt and hit on anyone(Thus you can define whether your Shepard is straight, gay or bi) but make it possible for said character to reject the players advances, because of sexuality or other circumstances(Like Jack, Samara or Aveline/Varric from DA2), that said I'm fine if they make the new ME3 LIs all bi but don't make characters like Jack, who has already stated she's straight, bisexual just to please the crowd.

1) "Girl's Club". This is interesting. Until I read that line being used by people who don't like any kind of gay in their games to declare jack isn't nor could ever be bisexual, I always thought that line was simply her telling Shepard to back off, that she wasn't interested in getting all gal-pal with her. She's afraid of human contact, period. She didn't want Shep thinking they could be girlfriends (in the platonic sense). That is what that line means.

2) In DA2 the characters are bisexual. They don't somehow magically 'change' in between playthroughs. They are the same character. They love in the same way, they hate in the same way, they have the same backstory. The difference being that they merely choose to talk about certain aspects of their lives with Hawke depending on his/her gender. I thought we wanted romances with different genders to feel different. Or is that only applicable when it suits?

3) Why is it so important that characters turn Hawke down because of being of the wrong orientation? Why not get some characters to turn him down because they don't like beards? Or how about we add in some lines about how they don't like guys with muscles, so not tonight thanks darling. Then we could add in even more dialogue where Hawke gets turned down because he's Ferelden. That would be a good one. Wait, then we can have him be turned down because the object of his affections only likes black/white/hispanic/asian people, and Hawke, in any given playthough, isn't one of those things. Yeah, that would be awesome, and would flesh out the game world so well. Okay, so there wouldn't be any time to do anything else, because BW wouldn't have been able to afford to build even the few maps they did already, and perhaps they would have only been able to use 5 voice actors for the whole game instead of the 10 they used. But hey, it'd be so realistic!

Oh, wait ... no. We only care about that sort of realism when it comes to being gay or not. Yeah, I remember. That's the central defining point of someone's personality. Yeah, sorry, I forgot myself for a moment there.

[Creator001]

Im sorry but ME isnt a dating sim.
If you want to get banged - go get some action on streets. and in case you cant get any - there is always "XXX.com" option waiting for you.


Anyway why are discusing this for over 200 pgs?
Romance options?
Bringing more characters ?

I chose Liare for From Day 1. Well maybe day two.. he he )
and continued developing Shepards relations with her in ME2

Rather then spending energy and tiime on something so small, why wont we focus on something more importaint? LIKE GAME ITSELF

[Russalka]

The dating sim argument is getting redundant.

[jlb524]

Emyer wrote...

What does that have to do with anything ? I didn't say it was detrimental when characters don't bring up their sexuality I said it added to their personalities when they do, might sound similar but it isn't.

Then I wonder what it adds something? 

If lack of mentioning sexuality isn't detrimental then I wonder why the opposite always a good thing?

[bluuberg]

The dating sim argument was redundant before the first person even used it.

[catabuca]

Dante Angelo wrote...

For some reason I have a feeling that Kaiden & Ashley will be BI. I always felt like Kaiden Alenko had a crush on Sheperd. Mainly because of how he reacted in ME2 about shepard being part of Cerberus and him saying I should've contacted him first and told him I was alive.Also because the music playing in the background seemed somewhat romantic.

A lot of people got that vibe throughout the first game (and again on Horizon). You'd be surprised how common that thought is.

It's helped, of course, by the fact that there are recoverable scenes and lines that can 'reinstate' bisexual romances for Kaidan and Ashley (that follow over into ME2).

So yeah, you're not alone in your thinking.

[Blacklash93]

Creator001 wrote...

Im sorry but ME isnt a dating sim.
If you want to get banged - go get some action on streets. and in case you cant get any - there is always "XXX.com" option waiting for you.

That applies to everyone.

Rather then spending energy and tiime on something so small, why wont we focus on something more importaint? LIKE GAME ITSELF

Should we just speculate on things we don't know? Gush about Tali? How is that more worthwhile?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 15 avril 2011 - 11:12 .

[Saeran]

Creator001 wrote...

Im sorry but ME isnt a dating sim.
If you want to get banged - go get some action on streets. and in case you cant get any - there is always "XXX.com" option waiting for you.


Anyway why are discusing this for over 200 pgs?
Romance options?
Bringing more characters ?

I chose Liare for From Day 1. Well maybe day two.. he he )
and continued developing Shepards relations with her in ME2

Rather then spending energy and tiime on something so small, why wont we focus on something more importaint? LIKE GAME ITSELF

Surely this part "Im sorry but ME isnt a dating sim. If you want to get banged - go get some action on streets. and in case you cant get any - there is always "XXX.com" option waiting for you." option waiting for you." followed by "
I chose Liare for From Day 1. Well maybe day two.. he he )" cancel each other out. Or make your post so hypocritical it blew the scale of hypocrisy. (and her names Liara, not Liare)

Modifié par Saeran, 15 avril 2011 - 11:15 .

[Dante Angelo]

Saeran wrote...

Creator001 wrote...

Im sorry but ME isnt a dating sim.
If you want to get banged - go get some action on streets. and in case you cant get any - there is always "XXX.com" option waiting for you.


Anyway why are discusing this for over 200 pgs?
Romance options?
Bringing more characters ?

I chose Liare for From Day 1. Well maybe day two.. he he )
and continued developing Shepards relations with her in ME2

Rather then spending energy and tiime on something so small, why wont we focus on something more importaint? LIKE GAME ITSELF

Surely this part "Im sorry but ME isnt a dating sim. If you want to get banged - go get some action on streets. and in case you cant get any - there is always "XXX.com" option waiting for you." option waiting for you." followed by "
I chose Liare for From Day 1. Well maybe day two.. he he )" cancel each other out. Or make your post so hypocritical it blew the scale of hypocrisy. (and her names Liara, not Liare)

Shh let him stay in him stay in his happy place

[Emyer]

catabuca wrote...

Emyer wrote...

I kinda like that the characters have defined sexualities, stuff like Jack saying she "isn't part of the girls' club"(Why does she always think my Sheps are hitting on her?! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF) ads a bit more character to her I think, I don't at all oppose bisexual characters like Isabela, Fenris, Merrill, Leliana, Zevran, etc... but when they change characters or make them "playersexual" just to pander I don't appreciate it , like Anders, apparently his sexuality is wholly dependent on which set of genitalia the character I roll has...

The way it should be done, imo, is give the player the opportunity to flirt and hit on anyone(Thus you can define whether your Shepard is straight, gay or bi) but make it possible for said character to reject the players advances, because of sexuality or other circumstances(Like Jack, Samara or Aveline/Varric from DA2), that said I'm fine if they make the new ME3 LIs all bi but don't make characters like Jack, who has already stated she's straight, bisexual just to please the crowd.

1) "Girl's Club". This is interesting. Until I read that line being used by people who don't like any kind of gay in their games to declare jack isn't nor could ever be bisexual, I always thought that line was simply her telling Shepard to back off, that she wasn't interested in getting all gal-pal with her. She's afraid of human contact, period. She didn't want Shep thinking they could be girlfriends (in the platonic sense). That is what that line means.

2) In DA2 the characters are bisexual. They don't somehow magically 'change' in between playthroughs. They are the same character. They love in the same way, they hate in the same way, they have the same backstory. The difference being that they merely choose to talk about certain aspects of their lives with Hawke depending on his/her gender. I thought we wanted romances with different genders to feel different. Or is that only applicable when it suits?

3) Why is it so important that characters turn Hawke down because of being of the wrong orientation? Why not get some characters to turn him down because they don't like beards? Or how about we add in some lines about how they don't like guys with muscles, so not tonight thanks darling. Then we could add in even more dialogue where Hawke gets turned down because he's Ferelden. That would be a good one. Wait, then we can have him be turned down because the object of his affections only likes black/white/hispanic/asian people, and Hawke, in any given playthough, isn't one of those things. Yeah, that would be awesome, and would flesh out the game world so well. Okay, so there wouldn't be any time to do anything else, because BW wouldn't have been able to afford to build even the few maps they did already, and perhaps they would have only been able to use 5 voice actors for the whole game instead of the 10 they used. But hey, it'd be so realistic!

Oh, wait ... no. We only care about that sort of realism when it comes to being gay or not. Yeah, I remember. That's the central defining point of someone's personality. Yeah, sorry, I forgot myself for a moment there.

1) I'm not part of the whole "FFL fights", I didn't even visit forums when my FemShep had that talk with Jack, given the context that's what I took from that line, you're free to disagree.

2) I guess you missed where I said I was ok with 3 out of 4 of them right ? I specifically singled out Anders cuz I remembered the whole "subjective sexuality" thing, but I guess Ithat was just hearsay I read somewhere, being the case I don't really care either way.

3) Didn't I mention Samara, Aveline and Varric not being into the PC character as well ? Didn't I mention other circumstances besides sexuality ? Christ, stop twisting my words and pulling the "woe is I" persecution card.

[Cootie]

Hmmmm... something just came to mind, and one of my mini-discussion-polls popped up again.

We keep hearing about how meaningful romances become once they're exclusive to one gender or another, or how sexuality deepens the romances.
We also keep hearing about how a crew of all-around-bisexuals is cheapening and whatnot.

So how about this compromise:
Let's say four out of five are bisexual romances a la DA2, and one of the five would be an exclusively heterosexual/homosexual romance?

Would people be fine with this sort of compromise, or does it only work in one direction?

[george martin]

I'd support it if this was the 1st game but it's not, Shepard is not gay in any part of the storyline in ME1 or 2 nor are there any gay romance options, Shepard is not attracted to the same sex. It's clear Shepard is not gay. ME2 already had big enough plot holes for me I don't need or want anymore. DA:O had gay romance options and I didn't think it silly because it's the 1st one, if people want to play as gay characters fine, but for the central plot character to all of a sudden come out with it. No, makes no sense.

For gay romance options to suddenly pop up out of no where completely destroys Shepard's character and his previous relationships. Some people are straight, gay or bi, I don't care what people choose it's their decision. if your straight, gay or bi that needs to be addressed in the beginning not the last game. Shepard can save the galaxy but can't express his different sexual views until the 3rd installment? Be hard to believe he'd out right cheat on his previous LI for the same sex. Shepard isn't married, Shepard can do whatever he/she wants and has nothing to hide, why this change now it would make 0 sense.

I do not support any change that conflicts with the original story line rendering it mute.

[george martin]

[quote]catabuca wrote...

[quote]Dante Angelo wrote...

For some reason I have a feeling that Kaiden & Ashley will be BI. I always felt like Kaiden Alenko had a crush on Sheperd. Mainly because of how he reacted in ME2 about shepard being part of Cerberus and him saying I should've contacted him first and told him I was alive.Also because the music playing in the background seemed somewhat romantic. [/quote]

[quote]George Martin wrote....

Just because a best friend says that doesn't mean they're attracted to you. They just found out that you're not dead, well you were but not just anymore. Pretty amazing, if my best friend died then came back to life and didn't tell me first I'd be pretty pissed too. It doesn't mean I want to have a sexual relationship with them though.

[quote]

A lot of people got that vibe throughout the first game (and again on Horizon). You'd be surprised how common that thought is.

It's helped, of course, by the fact that there are recoverable scenes and lines that can 'reinstate' bisexual romances for Kaidan and Ashley (that follow over into ME2).

So yeah, you're not alone in your thinking.

[/quote]

There are no recoverable scenes or lines that imply shepard or any of his/her same sex squad mates are gay. If anything like that would've happened in ME1 or 2 it would, all of a sudden in ME3 no sorry makes no sense. Kaidan talks about liking a beautiful turkish women during biotic training and enjoys looking at Liara. He also makes comments about the Asari strippers but never once made any comment about the same sex? Again makes no sense.

Modifié par george martin, 16 avril 2011 - 01:26 .

[Cootie]

george martin wrote...

I'd support it if this was the 1st game but it's not, Shepard is not gay in any part of the storyline in ME1 or 2 nor are there any gay romance options, Shepard is not attracted to the same sex. It's clear Shepard is not gay. ME2 already had big enough plot holes for me I don't need or want anymore. DA:O had gay romance options and I didn't think it silly because it's the 1st one, if people want to play as gay characters fine, but for the central plot character to all of a sudden come out with it. No, makes no sense.

For gay romance options to suddenly pop up out of no where completely destroys Shepard's character and his previous relationships. Some people are straight, gay or bi, I don't care what people choose it's their decision. if your straight, gay or bi that needs to be addressed in the beginning not the last game. Shepard can save the galaxy but can't express his different sexual views until the 3rd installment? Be hard to believe he'd out right cheat on his previous LI for the same sex. Shepard isn't married, Shepard can do whatever he/she wants and has nothing to hide, why this change now it would make 0 sense.

I do not support any change that conflicts with the original story line rendering it mute.

Now, this argument left a big question mark on my forehead.

Let's say, for one minute, that you are a heterosexual person, and you're in a space ship. Then this homosexual person enters the ship and joins your crew.
Does this affect your sexuality in any way? This theoretical heterosexual you?

That seems to be what you're saying, anyway. I need you to clarify, I think.

[Cootie]

george martin wrote...

There are no recoverable scenes or lines that imply shepard or any of his/her same sex squad mates are gay. If anything like that would've happened in ME1 or 2 it would, all of a sudden in ME3 no sorry makes no sense. Kaidan talks about liking a beautiful turkish women during biotic training and enjoys looking at Liara. He also makes comments about the Asari strippers but never once made any comment about the same sex? Again makes no sense.

You know all of those movies where the villains die and are brought back somehow for the sequel?

SPOILER ALERT:

See The Matrix Trilogy for details.

END OF SPOILER.

That is a result of something we'd like to call writing. And usually, writing is fluid. It keeps moving the story forward. You see, there are things that alter over periods of time. This happens everywhere. One example could be the clouds moving, the earth, et cetera.

The point I'm trying to make is that whatever happens is in the hands of the writers and developers. They have the power, no matter your interpretation, they know whether or not Kaidan is of this or that sexuality, and they know they can justify it.

Because right now, what you're saying is this:
"What? Shepard would never do this or that for this organisation that is different from the Alliance Military! He didn't do anything of the sort in the first game!"

[george martin]

Cootie wrote...

george martin wrote...

I'd support it if this was the 1st game but it's not, Shepard is not gay in any part of the storyline in ME1 or 2 nor are there any gay romance options, Shepard is not attracted to the same sex. It's clear Shepard is not gay. ME2 already had big enough plot holes for me I don't need or want anymore. DA:O had gay romance options and I didn't think it silly because it's the 1st one, if people want to play as gay characters fine, but for the central plot character to all of a sudden come out with it. No, makes no sense.

For gay romance options to suddenly pop up out of no where completely destroys Shepard's character and his previous relationships. Some people are straight, gay or bi, I don't care what people choose it's their decision. if your straight, gay or bi that needs to be addressed in the beginning not the last game. Shepard can save the galaxy but can't express his different sexual views until the 3rd installment? Be hard to believe he'd out right cheat on his previous LI for the same sex. Shepard isn't married, Shepard can do whatever he/she wants and has nothing to hide, why this change now it would make 0 sense.

I do not support any change that conflicts with the original story line rendering it mute.

Now, this argument left a big question mark on my forehead.

Let's say, for one minute, that you are a heterosexual person, and you're in a space ship. Then this homosexual person enters the ship and joins your crew.
Does this affect your sexuality in any way? This theoretical heterosexual you?

That seems to be what you're saying, anyway. I need you to clarify, I think.

No it wouldn't affect my sexuality in the least. It sure would affect the storyline if a romance option popped up for that same sex character though, when they explained no such interests at all before in the previous games. Shepard has nothing to hide he's not married, so why hasn't this come up before? Only reason could be is that he was hiding it and that makes 0 sense. I dont' believe DADT exists in the ME universe.

[N7 Vanguard]

double post

Modifié par N7 Vanguard, 16 avril 2011 - 01:42 .

[N7 Vanguard]

I think all the continuing main characters should remain straight and they should add a new character that will make it known that he is gay/bisexual or whatever. From there you can either pursue that or dismiss it and continue on with your life. I don't think the character should just start hitting on you though, unless you hit on them first. I am bisexual but i just don't think everyone in the game should be bisexual just for sake of fan service. They loose character when it is like that because not everyone is bisexual.

I like how Obsidian did the Doctor companion in New Vegas. It wasn't a big dramatic reveal he just said that he is gay and you can deal with it or carry on with yourself.

Modifié par N7 Vanguard, 16 avril 2011 - 01:45 .

[Cootie]

george martin wrote...

No it wouldn't affect my sexuality in the least. It sure would affect the storyline if a romance option popped up for that same sex character though, when they explained no such interests at all before in the previous games. Shepard has nothing to hide he's not married, so why hasn't this come up before? Only reason could be is that he was hiding it and that makes 0 sense. I dont' believe DADT exists in the ME universe.

I do not see how that is any different from including inter-species relations in their games, and implementing it in previously un-romancable crewmembers such as Tali or Garrus.

THAT is pushing the boundaries, if anything. But it's all fine since Garrus identifies as male and Tali identifies as a gurrl?

Don't forget that this has nothing to do with your Shepard. You are making it obvious that you will not pursue these same-sex romances, and neither does it have to affect your crewmembers. You could just avoid flirting with them. Having the option doesn't make you homosexual.
You could probably flirt with any man/woman you meet. Does that mean you have to do it?

EDIT:

N7 Vanguard wrote...

I think all the continuing main
characters should remain straight and they should add a new character
that will make it known that he is gay/bisexual or whatever. From there
you can either pursue that or dismiss it and continue on with your life.
I don't think the character should just start hitting on you though,
unless you hit on them first. I am bisexual but i just don't think
everyone in the game should be bisexual just for sake of fan service.
They loose character when it is like that because not everyone is
bisexual.

I like how Obsidian did the Doctor companion in New
Vegas. It wasn't a big dramatic reveal he just said that he is gay and
you can deal with it or carry on with yourself.

The above applies to you as well, I believe. Not as much, but a little.
I'm sure you're capable of figuring out which parts I'm talking about. ^^

Modifié par Cootie, 16 avril 2011 - 01:47 .

[Elite Midget]

Don't try and talk common sense wit him. He's already made up his mind. All you can do is hope that Bioware isn't as close minded as he to such relationships.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 16 avril 2011 - 01:47 .

[N7 Vanguard]

Cootie wrote...
The above applies to you as well, I believe. Not as much, but a little.
I'm sure you're capable of figuring out which parts I'm talking about. ^^

I agree somewhat. I think it would be better to have a extra option to say what you want but only if you make the first move. My idea of Garrus and some of the other squad mates is straight though.  They just seem like straight characters, always have and there is nothing wrong with that. Kaidan is the only one i really see as being a little more "flirtaious" so to speak. I would be okay with him being bisexual. Haha too complicated for me right now.

[Cootie]

Elite Midget wrote...

Don't try and talk common sense wit
him. He's already made up his mind. All you can do is hope that Bioware
isn't as close minded as he to such relationships.

But it makes me feel better! Catabuca isn't around for once! D;

Besides,
laying claim to the higher ground cannot be a bad thing, surely. Ignoring anyone who strongly disagrees might make us seem arrogant, which is not quite beneficial.
And since many tend to use the same points as he, they should still be considered "somewhat valid," although I use those words vaguely.

There is, however, a point where I draw the line and will no longer try to talk sense into someone. It usually has to do with iteration, and not listening.