9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Dante Angelo]

technoquarian wrote...

I guess we're all forgetting that in order to be gay, a guy has to be mackin' on every other male within a one mile radius. Nevermind that he might just not find his co-workers attractive or anything. Nevermind that he might put his work before off-duty luxuries. Nope, he can't be gay because he doesn't think about hitting on someone!

Heck yes, facepalm. Way to not even consider another point of view there.

That seems to be what they excel at

[catabuca]

In response to the comments that Shepard cannot be gay, instead of arguing afresh, I'll quote my own remarks from earlier today, because really, I can't say it any clearer than that (it was in response to another poster ... useful to know in case context sounds odd).

catabuca wrote...

"Shepard is not gay".

In reply to this I will focus on a male Shepard, for 2 reasons: 1, my canon Shepard is male; 2, femShep can identify as a lesbian and pursue a relationship appropriate to that orientation with Liara in the game. The latter is something that has been discussed already, and I can add nothing more to that debate other than reiterate that femShep has to find Liara's female body and characteristic attractive otherwise she wouldn't be attracted to her. Whether this makes that particular femShep bisexual, lesbian or pansexual is down to the individual player to determine.

On to my reply.

I take offense. My Shepard is gay. He has been gay all his life. He was gay during the events of ME1, he was gay when Project Lazarus resurrected him, and he will still be gay when the reapers invade in ME3. He is a gay man. He knows his sexuality, he is proud of it, it is, quite simply, a part of who he is.

During the events of ME1 and ME2, there were no crew members aboard the SR-1 or SR-2 who were made available by the developers for Shepard to hit on. So he didn't hit on anyone. He remained alone. He didn't suddenly think, "Hey, maybe I'm straight after all, after all these years!", just because of the presence of a handful of LIs who were available as straight romance options. He was still gay.

You appear, throughout your posts, to be confusing the roles of Shepard and the crew. Shepard has a handful of pre-defined traits that are integral to the story. Like being a marine. Or being badass. His sexual orientation is not one of those pre-defined traits. There is nothing in the game that suggests Shepard has an orientation of one thing or another. There is no grand statement about which way he swings that is forced upon me by the game. The presence or absence of gay, straight or bisexual crew members and LIs does not affect Shepard's own orientation. Just as if I work in an office with all straight people, that does not make me straight as well. And if a straight person happens to go to a gay club with some friends, that does not make them gay. Who you are attracted to, romantically and/or sexually, is what 'makes' you one orientation or another. Not the presence or absence of gay, straight or bisexual people around you.

"For gay romance options to suddenly pop up out of no where completely
destroys Shepard's character and his previous relationships."

No it doesn't. My Shepard has always been gay. It would merely mean now there was someone aboard the ship he could finally show an interest in, if, indeed, he was attracted to them as a person as well.. Your Shepard wouldn't have to. It wouldn't invalidate your Shepard's previous relationships. You might well have just said, "To introduce any new LIs in ME2 or ME3 completely destroys Shepard's character and his previous relationships." I mean, Shepard could have been in love with a human in ME1, right? So the introduction of a quarian romance in ME2 surely would have 'destroyed' Shepard's character, since he wasn't attracted to those aliens in ME1. Oh, but maybe he was, and the game just didn't give us the option to pursue one. Do you see the parallel?

You, the player, set the boundary about who and what your Shepard finds attractive. The game writing itself is left open enough that you have that freedom. To reiterate: the presence of the option for Shepard to initiate a romance with a character of a particular orientation does not mean that he has to take that option (for it is an 'option', after all), nor does the mere presence of those characters say anything about Shepard's orientation. And, ultimately, it is a little offensive to be told that my Shepard does not or cannot exist. He does exist. He's sat on my hard-drive right now, silently existing, waiting for ME3. And he's gay.

[Jademoon121]

Dante Angelo wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

Dante Angelo wrote...

Dante Angelo wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

I think some people are hung up on the masculinity factor. It's about time people got over the fact that masculine men can be gay as well.

Just look at the ancient greeks, the Cetlics, Romans, and Rob Halford

I forgot to mention the Turian Captain Preitor Gavorn

The Turian at the enterance of Afterlife? What about him?

He was masculine and according to a video in the shadow brokers hideout he is also gay.

This is relevent to my interests.
Can you give me the intel or the dialogue oh great Quarian?

[Maugrim]

taliefer wrote...
when i see the conversation wheel pop up, the way i interpret is these are the responses going through shepards mind at that time, and i can choose one. never have i seen the option to hit on a male squad mate. that, to me, after two games, means shepard is not gay.

Ok I'll say it regardless of the light it casts on "my side"...

Playing this way is valid, but dumb unless all your Shepards are psychotic. Really everything the pops up runs through Shepards mind?  So in the beginning Shepard always forgots who is appointed to the council?  Shepards is always wanting to give Conrad's hair a tousle/shoot him in the foot?  Always wants to be diplomatic/punch the other guy out?  Bioware gives us options but my main Shep is still a lesbian who loves Liara despite that tone she uses when speaking to Jacob.  Denying something because it could happen in anothers playthrough is the height of selfishness and self-entitlement.  I could not care less about romancing Kaidan, Jacob, Thane or Garrus but I'm happy that those who wanted to got the option and I hope that they get to continue them in ME3.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 16 avril 2011 - 05:57 .

[Centauri2002]

lolwut666 wrote...

To be fair, there were never any options to make Shepard act gay on any of the games because homosexualism had been scrapped before release.

You can't say that something is "canon" just because of executive meddling.

I refer to my earlier point of FemShep engaging in some rather gay activities. 

Next!

Modifié par centauri2002, 16 avril 2011 - 05:57 .

[lolwut666]

Siansonea II wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

To be fair, there were never any options to make Shepard act gay on any of the games because homosexualism had been scrapped before release.

You can't say that something is "canon" just because of executive meddling.

lolwut?

Who exactly are you responding to? There's this feature called "quoting" that makes this clear to everyone, just FYI.

Also FYI: There's no such word as "homosexualism". The word you're looking for is "homosexuality".

And please, by all means, define the phrase "act gay" for us. Inquiring minds want to know.

I fixed it.

I'm not used to quoting because not long ago I was posting on GameFAQs, and you can't quote there.

As for "act gay", I mean showing attraction for the same sex and all that jazz.

Anyway, I won't even bother with you because you seem like one of those neurotic people, picking every little thing apart and aching to start a fight.

Modifié par lolwut666, 16 avril 2011 - 05:59 .

[taliefer]

you guys are great. where do i say my way is the only way to play? im offering my opinion, not saying "THIS IS HOW IT MUST BE, SO SAYETH TALIEFER"

im saying that it would seem off to me for shep to all of a sudden want to start sleeping with men. that is MY opinion. if they do put the option there, im not gonna scream bloody mary, it will just be a head scratch moment and then i'll say no and move on.

it works for hawke in da2, even tho i personally think they didnt do a good job with it in that game and jsut made it seem like hawke would shag anything with a pulse. i think they went to two different extremes with the two games and need to find a middle ground with options to satisfy everyone from the start.

[taliefer]

makenzie,in a way..yea. everyone has many different thoughts going through the back of their mind, or subconcious, at any given moment and at the time of any given choice. as a player im given the choice of which thoughts to act on. maybe it doesnt make sense to you, but it works for me in mass effect and makes it fun

[Dante Angelo]

Jademoon121 wrote...

This is relevent to my interests.
Can you give me the intel or the dialogue oh great Quarian?

I'm not good at making links nonetheless

his part should be around 2:11 although my favorite part is around 2:54 silly keepers

Modifié par Dante Angelo, 16 avril 2011 - 06:09 .

[technoquarian]

Jademoon121 wrote...
This is relevent to my interests.
Can you give me the intel or the dialogue oh great Quarian?

Check it!   It's around 2:10.

Edit:  What I think lolwut666 was saying is that Shep isn't canonically hetero-only because of the executive meddling that forced the game's options to change before release.  I may be wrong, though.

Modifié par technoquarian, 16 avril 2011 - 06:10 .

[Jademoon121]

Dante Angelo wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

This is relevent to my interests.
Can you give me the intel or the dialogue oh great Quarian?

I'm not good at making links nonetheless

his part should be around 2:11

Ma serannas [/b]

[Siansonea]

taliefer wrote...

you guys are great. where do i say my way is the only way to play? im offering my opinion, not saying "THIS IS HOW IT MUST BE, SO SAYETH TALIEFER"

im saying that it would seem off to me for shep to all of a sudden want to start sleeping with men. that is MY opinion. if they do put the option there, im not gonna scream bloody mary, it will just be a head scratch moment and then i'll say no and move on.

it works for hawke in da2, even tho i personally think they didnt do a good job with it in that game and jsut made it seem like hawke would shag anything with a pulse. i think they went to two different extremes with the two games and need to find a middle ground with options to satisfy everyone from the start.

You're in a thread supporting same-sex romance content, saying your interpretation of events precludes the possibility that Shepard could be gay or bisexual. Or are you not saying that?

[Ryzaki]

@taliefer:

Hawke would shag anything with a pulse? You mean some Hawkes would do that.

Why do you think an option means automatically you must do it? 

Do you feel some compulsion to throw yourself out a window because you know you can choose to do it? 

FYI Hawke can sleep with 4 people. 

Shepard meanwhile can sleep with 5. 

So yeah. the arguement that Hawke is more skanky than Shepard is stupid. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 avril 2011 - 06:12 .

[Jademoon121]

Wow....mind blown.

[Centauri2002]

taliefer wrote...

makenzie,in a way..yea. everyone has many different thoughts going through the back of their mind, or subconcious, at any given moment and at the time of any given choice. as a player im given the choice of which thoughts to act on. maybe it doesnt make sense to you, but it works for me in mass effect and makes it fun

So, if your impression of the dialogue wheel is correct, FemShep is both repulsed by the idea of relations with an asari and attracted to it?

[Maugrim]

And like I said your way of playing is valid. It's not however a good or valid reason for not including same sex romances. If we were to follow you presumption there should be no straight romances because my Shepard is a lesbian and she wouldn't have those thoughts about Jacob. And yes she is a lesbian because as Word of God states

"while asari have only one gender, they are not asexual like single-celled life—all asari are sexually female" Galactic Codex: Essentials Edition 2183

So Shepard can be homosexual, the end.

[ADLegend21]

catabuca wrote...

In response to the comments that Shepard cannot be gay, instead of arguing afresh, I'll quote my own remarks from earlier today, because really, I can't say it any clearer than that (it was in response to another poster ... useful to know in case context sounds odd).

catabuca wrote...

"Shepard is not gay".

In reply to this I will focus on a male Shepard, for 2 reasons: 1, my canon Shepard is male; 2, femShep can identify as a lesbian and pursue a relationship appropriate to that orientation with Liara in the game. The latter is something that has been discussed already, and I can add nothing more to that debate other than reiterate that femShep has to find Liara's female body and characteristic attractive otherwise she wouldn't be attracted to her. Whether this makes that particular femShep bisexual, lesbian or pansexual is down to the individual player to determine.

On to my reply.

I take offense. My Shepard is gay. He has been gay all his life. He was gay during the events of ME1, he was gay when Project Lazarus resurrected him, and he will still be gay when the reapers invade in ME3. He is a gay man. He knows his sexuality, he is proud of it, it is, quite simply, a part of who he is.

During the events of ME1 and ME2, there were no crew members aboard the SR-1 or SR-2 who were made available by the developers for Shepard to hit on. So he didn't hit on anyone. He remained alone. He didn't suddenly think, "Hey, maybe I'm straight after all, after all these years!", just because of the presence of a handful of LIs who were available as straight romance options. He was still gay.

You appear, throughout your posts, to be confusing the roles of Shepard and the crew. Shepard has a handful of pre-defined traits that are integral to the story. Like being a marine. Or being badass. His sexual orientation is not one of those pre-defined traits. There is nothing in the game that suggests Shepard has an orientation of one thing or another. There is no grand statement about which way he swings that is forced upon me by the game. The presence or absence of gay, straight or bisexual crew members and LIs does not affect Shepard's own orientation. Just as if I work in an office with all straight people, that does not make me straight as well. And if a straight person happens to go to a gay club with some friends, that does not make them gay. Who you are attracted to, romantically and/or sexually, is what 'makes' you one orientation or another. Not the presence or absence of gay, straight or bisexual people around you.

"For gay romance options to suddenly pop up out of no where completely
destroys Shepard's character and his previous relationships."

No it doesn't. My Shepard has always been gay. It would merely mean now there was someone aboard the ship he could finally show an interest in, if, indeed, he was attracted to them as a person as well.. Your Shepard wouldn't have to. It wouldn't invalidate your Shepard's previous relationships. You might well have just said, "To introduce any new LIs in ME2 or ME3 completely destroys Shepard's character and his previous relationships." I mean, Shepard could have been in love with a human in ME1, right? So the introduction of a quarian romance in ME2 surely would have 'destroyed' Shepard's character, since he wasn't attracted to those aliens in ME1. Oh, but maybe he was, and the game just didn't give us the option to pursue one. Do you see the parallel?

You, the player, set the boundary about who and what your Shepard finds attractive. The game writing itself is left open enough that you have that freedom. To reiterate: the presence of the option for Shepard to initiate a romance with a character of a particular orientation does not mean that he has to take that option (for it is an 'option', after all), nor does the mere presence of those characters say anything about Shepard's orientation. And, ultimately, it is a little offensive to be told that my Shepard does not or cannot exist. He does exist. He's sat on my hard-drive right now, silently existing, waiting for ME3. And he's gay.

ALLLLLLLLLLLL of this.

[MACharlie1]

Ryzaki wrote...

@taliefer:

Hawke would shag anything with a pulse? You mean some Hawkes would do that.

Why do you think an option means automatically you must do it? 

Do you feel some compulsion to throw yourself out a window because you know you can choose to do it? 

FYI Hawke can sleep with 4 people. 

Shepard meanwhile can sleep with 5. 

So yeah. the arguement that Hawke is more skanky than Shepard is stupid. 

To be fair, Hawke gets a brothel and can fool around with Zevran. 

[lolwut666]

He is saying that it is canon that Shepard is straight because you couldn't romance the same sex, but the point is that same sex voice acting had been recorded, but it was scrapped before release; probably because of that incident with Fox News about sex scenes, they figured adding gay content would be like adding fuel to the fire.

So what he says doesn't make sense. It's like I said: you can't just let executive meddling affect the canon, which doesn't exist in the first place (BioWare said themselves that Mass Effect's canon is what the player makes).

[taliefer]

from the first page of the thread, since i dont know how to use the quote feature:

The purpose of this thread is to get other people's opinions. We want to know why people *don't* want the option so that we can try to find a solution that is agreeable to their desires as well as our own. We all want the game to be the best, so why not discuss ways to make the game more enjoyable for everyone? Please keep political and social norms out of your post.

thats why im here. not to impose my will on other peoples play style. to offer my opinion on why it doesnt make sense, in the case of mass effect 3, to have a gay love interest option. that is all. it works in other games, i dont think it would be fitting in me3.

[Ryzaki]

MACharlie1 wrote...
To be fair, Hawke gets a brothel and can fool around with Zevran. 

Okay fine then. 5 to 5. I don't include the brothel. It doesn't exist.  

Seriously 2 Soveregins? No way am I paying that much to get a rash and have to get treated by Anders. Just no way.  Especially not when I can just bone Anders and have him cook for free 

Okay I'll be serious. I didn't include the brothel because it has no equal in ME. Zevran however does count (like the Consort). So it's 5 to 5. They're equally skanky. The brothel is just for those poor Hawke's waiting for Fenris/Isabela to stop tap dancing for 3 years and put out.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 avril 2011 - 06:18 .

[taliefer]

hoenstly i dont think the argument "it was recorded but cut from the game" holds any water myself. its not like while im playing the game im aware of cut content

[MACharlie1]

Ryzaki wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...
To be fair, Hawke gets a brothel and can fool around with Zevran. 

Okay fine then. 5 to 5. I don't include the brothel. It doesn't exist.  

Seriously 2 Soveregins? No way am I paying that much to get a rash and have to get treated by Anders. Just no way.  

Okay I'll be serious. I didn't include the brothel because it has no equal in ME. Zevran however does count (like the Consort). So it's 5 to 5. They're equally skanky. The brothel is just for those poor Hawke's waiting for Fenris/Isabela to stop tap dancing for 3 years and put out.  

AND (I know it's in the brothel) there was that Elf prostitute...count him since he was actually part of a quest. 

[jlb524]

taliefer wrote...
it works for hawke in da2, even tho i personally think they didnt do a good job with it in that game and jsut made it seem like hawke would shag anything with a pulse.

My Hawke only shagged one person with a pulse.

I think there's confusion between the ideas of Hawke/Shepard as an abstract entity and all the possible choices they have in game and all the different ways you could play them vs. individual Hawke/Shepards that you and I create and the things they do specifically.    As you don't have to do all the possible things a "Hawke" or "Shepard' could do in one playthrough and can pick and choose how you RP your own individual character, I don't see the problem.

[Siansonea]

lolwut666 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

To be fair, there were never any options to make Shepard act gay on any of the games because homosexualism had been scrapped before release.

You can't say that something is "canon" just because of executive meddling.

lolwut?

Who exactly are you responding to? There's this feature called "quoting" that makes this clear to everyone, just FYI.

Also FYI: There's no such word as "homosexualism". The word you're looking for is "homosexuality".

And please, by all means, define the phrase "act gay" for us. Inquiring minds want to know.

I fixed it.

I'm not used to quoting because not long ago I was posting on GameFAQs, and you can't quote there.

As for "act gay", I mean showing attraction for the same sex and all that jazz.

Anyway, I won't even bother with you because you seem like one of those neurotic people, picking every little thing apart and aching to start a fight.

Spoiling for a fight? Moi? You know what thread you're in, right? Fight for the Love?

If you aren't prepared to present your side of an argument, to give the community some logical premise to discuss, why ARE you here?

So, because Shepard never had the opportunity to show attraction for other dudes, he couldn't possibly have those feelings? If it pleases the court, I would like to substitute "other dudes" with "quarians" in that sentence and recast it in light of the Tali romance in Mass Effect 2. Shepard never said anything remotely flirtatious to Tali, AN ALIEN, in the first game. They just prattled on incessantly about geth and other boring stuff, like the fact that she can't eat human food because of her DNA chirality, the fact that her immune system is so weak that she could die of infections extremely easily, etc. Then, suddenly, in the second game, there was this entirely new dynamic between Tali and Shepard. Shepard wanted to crack open that helmet and lay one on that mug of hers. Even though SHE'S AN ALIEN. And SHE CAN'T EVEN EAT HUMAN FOOD. And even though SHE COULD DIE. I didn't hear a lot of kids complaining about this 'sudden' shift in personality on Shepard's (and Tali's) part. But go ahead, give us a litany of reasons why 'maybe' that change makes sense. Give us a list of examples in the first game of exchanges between Tali and Shepard that you think might have been flirtatious. Than I will point out the rather obvious point that you could say all those same things about KAIDAN. Oh, and he's a human that could share a meal with Shepard, and wouldn't have to shoot himself up with antibiotics just for a few minutes of heavy petting.