9243 réponses à ce sujet

[george martin]

technoquarian wrote...

I'm not sure if these "gay tendencies" or "gay inclinations" are some sort of compulsion to engage in homosexual behavior, or what...Although I guess I have "straight tendencies" since once in a great while, but I thought that was just part of being bi, chilling out around 5 on the Kinsey scale...

Kidding aside, have you watched any of the videos with the MShep/Kaidan content? That's all stuff that was put into the game. Furthermore, MShep never once comes out and says "sorry, I only go for women," as can a FemShep. I know one guy IRL who I never knew was gay, because he didn't date for a while and also never talked about people he found hot. He wasn't "in the closet" or anything, relationships just weren't a priority for him. It's very possible that Shepard could be gay- just because he doesn't talk about it or hit on anyone doesn't mean that he isn't.

He could be gay, even though he's shown 0 interest in the same sex and gone specifically for females and by the conversation is obviously attracted to females only. Seriously.

[Centauri2002]

taliefer wrote...

again, more presumptions that homosexuality makes me uncomfortable just because i happen to believe it doesnt make sense for shep to be gay in me3. it doesnt make me uncomfortable. it just doesnt make sense in the case of ME3. if the option had been IN GAME since me1, and not on the cutting room floor apparently, it'd be a different story and i would say bring on the homosexual options. but it hasnt been.

the great thing about opinions is they dont have to be logical to other people. theres nothing to be proven or disproven here.

It has been. Play FemShep and you can see for yourself.

It's like some people in this thread refuse to acknowledge she exists. >.>

[MACharlie1]

george martin wrote...

technoquarian wrote...

I'm not sure if these "gay tendencies" or "gay inclinations" are some sort of compulsion to engage in homosexual behavior, or what...Although I guess I have "straight tendencies" since once in a great while, but I thought that was just part of being bi, chilling out around 5 on the Kinsey scale...

Kidding aside, have you watched any of the videos with the MShep/Kaidan content? That's all stuff that was put into the game. Furthermore, MShep never once comes out and says "sorry, I only go for women," as can a FemShep. I know one guy IRL who I never knew was gay, because he didn't date for a while and also never talked about people he found hot. He wasn't "in the closet" or anything, relationships just weren't a priority for him. It's very possible that Shepard could be gay- just because he doesn't talk about it or hit on anyone doesn't mean that he isn't.

He could be gay, even though he's shown 0 interest in the same sex and gone specifically for females and by the conversation is obviously attracted to females only. Seriously.

Some Sheps, as seen, have gone for NOBODY therefore that point is moot. 

[lolwut666]

Siansonea II wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

*snip*
You didn't even understand (or tried to, apparently) what I said.

I said that taliefer's arguments held no water because there had been the INTENTION to add gay content, but it was CUT due to executive meddling. So being gay COULD have been an option were it not for censorship, and so he can't just say that "canon Shepard" is straight; specially because there is no such thing as "canon" to Mass Effect.

Thanks for proving me right. You're just some neurotic hardocore pro-gay that is always in the defensive. People like you do nothing but hurt your own cause.

Now now, no need for name-calling.

[redacted]

I’m sorry, but what of “no name-calling” did you not understand?

And lo, you have sunk as low as trolling.

What a failure.

[Ryzaki]

...why does everyone keep acting like you must romance someone?

I have a straight single Shepard. Does he have to somehow prove his heterosexuality by sleeping with a woman?
And if he doesn't why should a gay Shepard have to prove his homosexuality by sleeping with a man? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 avril 2011 - 06:40 .

[Centauri2002]

george martin wrote...

He could be gay, even though he's shown 0 interest in the same sex and gone specifically for females and by the conversation is obviously attracted to females only. Seriously.

Why don't you show us this dialogue which shows he is attracted to females only?

And Shepard is not just a he.

[catabuca]

george martin wrote...

He could be gay, even though he's shown 0 interest in the same sex and gone specifically for females and by the conversation is obviously attracted to females only. Seriously.

Are you purposefully ignoring me? I've spoken to you directly now twice. Make this the third time. I've replied to your comments on this subject and I'd be interested in hearing what you think of my reply. All of it.

[catabuca]

Ryzaki wrote...

...why does everyone keep acting like you must romance someone?

I have a straight single Shepard. Does he have to somehow prove his heterosexuality by sleeping with a woman?
And if he doesn't why should a gay Shepard have to prove his homosexuality by sleeping with a man? 

Quoted for OMG!TRUTH.

[george martin]

blue.o7 wrote...

catabuca wrote...

george martin wrote...

I'd support it if this was the 1st game but it's not, Shepard is not gay in any part of the storyline in ME1 or 2 nor are there any gay romance options, Shepard is not attracted to the same sex. It's clear Shepard is not gay. ME2 already had big enough plot holes for me I don't need or want anymore. DA:O had gay romance options and I didn't think it silly because it's the 1st one, if people want to play as gay characters fine, but for the central plot character to all of a sudden come out with it. No, makes no sense.

For gay romance options to suddenly pop up out of no where completely destroys Shepard's character and his previous relationships. Some people are straight, gay or bi, I don't care what people choose it's their decision. if your straight, gay or bi that needs to be addressed in the beginning not the last game. Shepard can save the galaxy but can't express his different sexual views until the 3rd installment? Be hard to believe he'd out right cheat on his previous LI for the same sex. Shepard isn't married, Shepard can do whatever he/she wants and has nothing to hide, why this change now it would make 0 sense.

I do not support any change that conflicts with the original story line rendering it mute.

I've chosen to quote this post because it was your first, but you can take this as a reply to all of your subsequent posts, if that's okay.

"Shepard is not gay".

In reply to this I will focus on a male Shepard, for 2 reasons: 1, my canon Shepard is male; 2, femShep can identify as a lesbian and pursue a relationship appropriate to that orientation with Liara in the game. The latter is something that has been discussed already, and I can add nothing more to that debate other than reiterate that femShep has to find Liara's female body and characteristic attractive otherwise she wouldn't be attracted to her. Whether this makes that particular femShep bisexual, lesbian or pansexual is down to the individual player to determine.

On to my reply.

I take offense. My Shepard is gay. He has been gay all his life. He was gay during the events of ME1, he was gay when Project Lazarus resurrected him, and he will still be gay when the reapers invade in ME3. He is a gay man. He knows his sexuality, he is proud of it, it is, quite simply, a part of who he is.

During the events of ME1 and ME2, there were no crew members aboard the SR-1 or SR-2 who were made available by the developers for Shepard to hit on. So he didn't hit on anyone. He remained alone. He didn't suddenly think, "Hey, maybe I'm straight after all, after all these years!", just because of the presence of a handful of LIs who were available as straight romance options. He was still gay.

You appear, throughout your posts, to be confusing the roles of Shepard and the crew. Shepard has a handful of pre-defined traits that are integral to the story. Like being a marine. Or being badass. His sexual orientation is not one of those pre-defined traits. There is nothing in the game that suggests Shepard has an orientation of one thing or another. There is no grand statement about which way he swings that is forced upon me by the game. The presence or absence of gay, straight or bisexual crew members and LIs does not affect Shepard's own orientation. Just as if I work in an office with all straight people, that does not make me straight as well. And if a straight person happens to go to a gay club with some friends, that does not make them gay. Who you are attracted to, romantically and/or sexually, is what 'makes' you one orientation or another. Not the presence or absence of gay, straight or bisexual people around you.

"For gay romance options to suddenly pop up out of no where completely
destroys Shepard's character and his previous relationships."

No it doesn't. My Shepard has always been gay. It would merely mean now there was someone aboard the ship he could finally show an interest in, if, indeed, he was attracted to them as a person as well.. Your Shepard wouldn't have to. It wouldn't invalidate your Shepard's previous relationships. You might well have just said, "To introduce any new LIs in ME2 or ME3 completely destroys Shepard's character and his previous relationships." I mean, Shepard could have been in love with a human in ME1, right? So the introduction of a quarian romance in ME2 surely would have 'destroyed' Shepard's character, since he wasn't attracted to those aliens in ME1. Oh, but maybe he was, and the game just didn't give us the option to pursue one. Do you see the parallel?

You, the player, set the boundary about who and what your Shepard finds attractive. The game writing itself is left open enough that you have that freedom. To reiterate: the presence of the option for Shepard to initiate a romance with a character of a particular orientation does not mean that he has to take that option (for it is an 'option', after all), nor does the mere presence of those characters say anything about Shepard's orientation. And, ultimately, it is a little offensive to be told that my Shepard does not or cannot exist. He does exist. He's sat on my hard-drive right now, silently existing, waiting for ME3. And he's gay.

This, all of this right here. 100% agreed with, signed on the dotted line. It could not be said better, if only people would understand its contents.

You have the freedom to roleplay any way you want in the game, regardless gay romance options are not there, you can imagine them but regardless it's not in the story line. John Shepard is straight in the story line not gay, you can't change that.

[Maugrim]

centauri2002 wrote...

george martin wrote...

He could be gay, even though he's shown 0 interest in the same sex and gone specifically for females and by the conversation is obviously attracted to females only. Seriously.

Why don't you show us this dialogue which shows he is attracted to females only?

And Shepard is not just a he.

He's ignoring it because he knows it proves him wrong.

[Centauri2002]

lolwut666 wrote...

And lo, you have sunk as low as trolling.

What a failure.

They have a good point. You were name-calling. And they weren't trolling. 

How about keeping the personal insults out of this thread and focusing on the debate? Behave, the both of you. 

[Jademoon121]

george martin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

To be fair, there were never any options to make Shepard act gay on any of the games because homosexualism had been scrapped before release.

You can't say that something is "canon" just because of executive meddling.

lolwut?

Who exactly are you responding to? There's this feature called "quoting" that makes this clear to everyone, just FYI.

Also FYI: There's no such word as "homosexualism". The word you're looking for is "homosexuality".

And please, by all means, define the phrase "act gay" for us. Inquiring minds want to know.

I fixed it.

I'm not used to quoting because not long ago I was posting on GameFAQs, and you can't quote there.

As for "act gay", I mean showing attraction for the same sex and all that jazz.

Anyway, I won't even bother with you because you seem like one of those neurotic people, picking every little thing apart and aching to start a fight.

Spoiling for a fight? Moi? You know what thread you're in, right? Fight for the Love?

If you aren't prepared to present your side of an argument, to give the community some logical premise to discuss, why ARE you here?

So, because Shepard never had the opportunity to show attraction for other dudes, he couldn't possibly have those feelings? If it pleases the court, I would like to substitute "other dudes" with "quarians" in that sentence and recast it in light of the Tali romance in Mass Effect 2. Shepard never said anything remotely flirtatious to Tali, AN ALIEN, in the first game. They just prattled on incessantly about geth and other boring stuff, like the fact that she can't eat human food because of her DNA chirality, the fact that her immune system is so weak that she could die of infections extremely easily, etc. Then, suddenly, in the second game, there was this entirely new dynamic between Tali and Shepard. Shepard wanted to crack open that helmet and lay one on that mug of hers. Even though SHE'S AN ALIEN. And SHE CAN'T EVEN EAT HUMAN FOOD. And even though SHE COULD DIE. I didn't hear a lot of kids complaining about this 'sudden' shift in personality on Shepard's (and Tali's) part. But go ahead, give us a litany of reasons why 'maybe' that change makes sense. Give us a list of examples in the first game of exchanges between Tali and Shepard that you think might have been flirtatious. Than I will point out the rather obvious point that you could say all those same things about KAIDAN. Oh, and he's a human that could share a meal with Shepard, and wouldn't have to shoot himself up with antibiotics just for a few minutes of heavy petting.

You can try to justify all you want that Shepard could be gay, he's not and that's more than clear, he only goes for females you guys shouldn't be in the least bit offended by that. His sexuality in the first 2 games are quite grounded. Sometimes people are straight or gay in stories, trying to change that in the 3rd story would be ludicrous.

Would a gay guy becoming straight in the 3rd story make any sense when everything you've learned before hand proves the exact opposite. Kaidan likes women, he's never commented about liking men in any such manner. Garrus talked about a Turian female soldier that he liked qutie a bit. You never see them talking about men in any of these conversations. There's a reason they're not gay, you guys need to get over this. To change it up in the 3rd game would completely change their characters which are already grounded.

DA started with same sex partners and had some pretty interesting banter and conversations about it. It was well grounded that it's a possiblity. I enjoyed the game and the funny conversations about it. Nothing of the like occurred in ME, the majority of people are straight there's nothing wrong with that. You need to accept their characters for who they are.

Except one, no a few problems with that; This is an RPG, not a shooter. RPG's largely allow you to alter and make a character of your own. I can make Shepherd gay by rejecting every advance from a woman and having no interest in them, and to boot, FemShep can be a total lesbian if you play her right, so why can't manShep have some guy-on-guy? Plus, there's a new male partner coming in to his team, a James Sanders, and as far as we know, he's the only new companion.
After what, years of complaining by fans for manShep to have a male lover, James might fill that; and who's to say that Garrus or Kaidan can't jump borders? Kaidan was orignally a LI for Shepherd both male and female, and Anders, totally straight in Awakening, becomes gay in DA2 if you play as manHawke.
Lastly, how you play your character if how you express them. It makes sense for me for Shepherd to switch from "straight to gay", he's simply never had the oppritunity to do so.

[technoquarian]

george martin wrote...
You can try to justify all you want that Shepard could be gay, he's not and that's more than clear, he only goes for females you guys shouldn't be in the least bit offended by that. His sexuality in the first 2 games are quite grounded. Sometimes people are straight or gay in stories, trying to change that in the 3rd story would be ludicrous.

Would a gay guy becoming straight in the 3rd story make any sense when everything you've learned before hand proves the exact opposite. Kaidan likes women, he's never commented about liking men in any such manner. Garrus talked about a Turian female soldier that he liked qutie a bit. You never see them talking about men in any of these conversations. There's a reason they're not gay, you guys need to get over this. To change it up in the 3rd game would completely change their characters which are already grounded.

DA started with same sex partners and had some pretty interesting banter and conversations about it. It was well grounded that it's a possiblity. I enjoyed the game and the funny conversations about it. Nothing of the like occurred in ME, the majority of people are straight there's nothing wrong with that. You need to accept their characters for who they are.

Have you even bothered to read, say, Catabuca's excellent post (addressed directly to you, no less) or any of the other posts over the last few pages?

A couple of my MSheps don't go for females.  It's not "more than clear" that they only want women.  They've neither responded to sexual advances nor initiated sexual contact.  I'm not "offended" by my straight or bi Sheps' escapades, either.

Arguably, it's possible that Kaidan and Garrus are bi.  Just because they've slept with women or felt sexual attraction for women doesn't mean that they're completely opposed to same-sex romance.  Maybe they've had only one sexual encounter (doubtful, but possible) and that encounter was with a woman.  Short of them saying "sorry, not into it" a la Mordin it's impossible to say for sure.  It's just as presumptive to say that Kai and Garr are without a doubt straight as it is to say that Preitor Gavorn is without a doubt gay.

You're right.  There's nothing wrong with straight characters.  There is, however, something very wrong with claiming that your personal perspective on a character is the only legitimate one- especially when they display some fluidity.

[Siansonea]

george martin wrote...
You can try to justify all you want that Shepard could be gay, he's not and that's more than clear, he only goes for females you guys shouldn't be in the least bit offended by that. His sexuality in the first 2 games are quite grounded. Sometimes people are straight or gay in stories, trying to change that in the 3rd story would be ludicrous.

Shepard isn’t even a ‘he’. Shepard doesn’t HAVE to show attraction to females. Shepard’s sexuality is not defined in either of the games. You are presenting opinion as fact, and it’s specious reasoning. Three strikes.

george martin wrote...
Would a gay guy becoming straight in the 3rd story make any sense when everything you've learned before hand proves the exact opposite. Kaidan likes women, he's never commented about liking men in any such manner. Garrus talked about a Turian female soldier that he liked qutie a bit. You never see them talking about men in any of these conversations. There's a reason they're not gay, you guys need to get over this. To change it up in the 3rd game would completely change their characters which are already grounded.

Fundamental lack of understanding of the nature of bisexuality duly noted. The absence of something does not prove the lack of something, it only proves that it is not shown. Next?

george martin wrote...
DA started with same sex partners and had some pretty interesting banter and conversations about it. It was well grounded that it's a possiblity. I enjoyed the game and the funny conversations about it. Nothing of the like occurred in ME, the majority of people are straight there's nothing wrong with that. You need to accept their characters for who they are.

Two different games, two different development teams, two different animals. And I actually don’t have to accept Shepard for who she is, because I’m the one who is determining who he is through a series of choices that she is presented with and how his experiences are shaped as a result of those choices.

[Centauri2002]

george martin wrote...

You have the freedom to roleplay any way you want in the game, regardless gay romance options are not there, you can imagine them but regardless it's not in the story line. John Shepard is straight in the story line not gay, you can't change that.

Again, gay romance is there. Liara for FemShep and a pseudo relationship with Kelly in ME2. 

John Shepard is just one of many Shepards. He may be straight for you but don't assume he is for everyone.

[catabuca]

george martin wrote...

You have the freedom to roleplay any way you want in the game, regardless gay romance options are not there, you can imagine them but regardless it's not in the story line. John Shepard is straight in the story line not gay, you can't change that.

You haven't dealt with any of my comments. Would you care to?

[Maugrim]

george martin wrote...

You have the freedom to roleplay any way you want in the game, regardless gay romance options are not there, you can imagine them but regardless it's not in the story line. John Shepard is straight in the story line not gay, you can't change that.

Irrelevant. John Shepard a.k.a. Sheploo IS NOT CANON.  Word of God says so.  He is the iconic poster boy, but please try and learn the difference

[Ryzaki]

So...george martin...

You weren't straight until you had sex with a woman? Assuming of course you have.

[Praetor Knight]

centauri2002 wrote...

How about keeping the personal insults out of this thread and focusing on the debate?

Agreed.

And there is no need to be condescending, but I understand why, more or less, which is why I try to instill some humor regardless of how poor I am at it most of the time


And we have Site Rules

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 16 avril 2011 - 06:51 .

[george martin]

Dante Angelo wrote...

Insom wrote...

Dante Angelo wrote...

Insom wrote...

It's too little too late for you guys. Shepard is a straight dude and has been for two adventures. You want them to throw consistency out the window?

How is it too late?? Commander shepard can choose not to have a romance.

Shepard is clearly into the ladies canonically. Has no objections when Shiala or Gianna Parasini hits on him.

In Bioware games there really is no canon character. You guys are really making bad aguements here 

Yes there is. In DA same sex partners are available from the beginning it's quite clear. I enjoyed the game didn't bother me in the least. maleshep has shown 0 interest in the opposite sex. He can save the galaxy, he's pretty much the most famous character in the galaxy and up to now has shown only interest in females, and all of a sudden he comes out of the closet in ME3? Seriously, that would be like Aragorn courting Farimir all of a sudden in LOTR, would be absolutely ridiculous.

[Siansonea]

lolwut666 wrote...

And lo, you have sunk as low as trolling.

What a failure.

All I have done is asked you to clarify a few statements that were not clear. Instead of doing that you've called me all sorts of names. If I misunderstood your intent in some of your earlier posts, my bad. But how exactly am I trolling by asking you to clarify your position and the logic of your own statements?

Modifié par Siansonea II, 16 avril 2011 - 06:50 .

[Ryzaki]

....Shepard is not as defined as Aragorn. And Aragorn courting Farimir makes as much sense as him courting Eowyn.

You know...as in none considering he was that elven chick's beau.

[jlb524]

george martin wrote...

You have the freedom to roleplay any way you want in the game, regardless gay romance options are not there, you can imagine them but regardless it's not in the story line. John Shepard is straight in the story line not gay, you can't change that.

Who is John Shepard and when did he show up in my "storyline"?  I've never even heard of that character.

[Dante Angelo]

george martin wrote...

Dante Angelo wrote...

Insom wrote...

Dante Angelo wrote...

Insom wrote...

It's too little too late for you guys. Shepard is a straight dude and has been for two adventures. You want them to throw consistency out the window?

How is it too late?? Commander shepard can choose not to have a romance.

Shepard is clearly into the ladies canonically. Has no objections when Shiala or Gianna Parasini hits on him.

In Bioware games there really is no canon character. You guys are really making bad aguements here 

Yes there is. In DA same sex partners are available from the beginning it's quite clear. I enjoyed the game didn't bother me in the least. maleshep has shown 0 interest in the opposite sex. He can save the galaxy, he's pretty much the most famous character in the galaxy and up to now has shown only interest in females, and all of a sudden he comes out of the closet in ME3? Seriously, that would be like Aragorn courting Farimir all of a sudden in LOTR, would be absolutely ridiculous.

Nevermind I guess Ignorance really is Bliss

[Centauri2002]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Agreed.

And there is no need to be condescending, but I understand why, more or less, which is why I try to instill some humor regardless of how poor I am at it most of the time


And we have Site Rules

Humour helps. :happy: Even though people react differently to it sometimes. >.>


I think some people need to take a step away from this thread and realise that there's no need to get so riled up over it. Yes, some of the subject matter can invoke a certain degree of passion in people but I think it's important to keep a level head.

And, of course, if people just had a little respect for everyone else's opinion, the debate would go a lot more smoothly. There's always more than one way of looking at something, after all.

*glances shiftily around the thread* You know who you are, people.  Play nice.