9243 réponses à ce sujet

[catabuca]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Wasn't Kaidan originally available for both Shepards?

Apparently.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Is there any reason as to why it was taken out of the game?

[catabuca]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Is there any reason as to why it was taken out of the game?

We don't really know for certain.

[ElitePinecone]

@Ramirez: Yes, Kaidan (and apparently Ashley) were originally available for both Shepards. There was even some unique dialogue recorded.

This is a great example: linky

As to the reasons, if I remember correctly it was because some unfinished parts of the game had to be cut before release. It was presented as a development issue (lack of timing) - they'd originally planned for s/s but didn't end up shipping the game with them in. Whether or not there were other sources of pressure to cut the content remains to be seen.

Edit: BBCode is a wonderous and frustrating beast. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 21 avril 2011 - 04:47 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Okay, I just wanted to know if it was cut out because it was s/s. And if it was, I would say that I do feel that it is unfair, and that it should have been kept in the game. Thanks for answering though, both of you.

[ElitePinecone]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Okay, I just wanted to know if it was cut out because it was s/s. And if it was, I would say that I do feel that it is unfair, and that it should have been kept in the game. Thanks for answering though, both of you.

I'm not discounting that possibility - it looks like that was the mindset for ME2, for example. The reasons given for cutting them out of the first ME have been vague at best, and often contradictory. It's possible that they were just cut because someone in marketing or PR got jittery about the s/s romances. We honestly don't know. 

But the stated reason is that a lack of development time meant cuts had to be made (for example, Liara's Therum mission was scaled back significantly) and s/s was one of them. Until we get a clearer answer this is all we can really go by. 

At the very least, however, several articles in the media and threads like this one have ensured that the absence stays on the radar. It would be extremely difficult to plead ignorance a third time around. 

[Biotic_Warlock]

catabuca wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Is there any reason as to why it was taken out of the game?

We don't really know for certain.

Unless you want to be entertained by the false reasons... some are really funny =)

[VioletSparks]

I think the aim should be as much freedom as possible should be (and probably is) the ultimate goal. Though I have to disagree with step 7's suggestion in the OP because it detracts from the immersion. Say for instance I find it is uncomfortable if I, being male, play as a male and am hit on by another male or whatever, I would prefer to then tell that character I dislike it in game than have some overarching 'content-control' (which would have to be akin to the parental controls on the xbox) which is would be, in terms of the OP, branding homosexual relationships and even video game romances as something 'taboo'. There shouldn't be regulation. There should be discretion.

[Ryzaki]

I don't know. I flip flop between wanting a toggle (if only for certain people to just deal with it) and not wanting one.

[Maugrim]

I wouldn't mind it in theory but the truth is you'd still have the same amount of absolute a**holes complaining about having gay sex in their game. Even the ones who suggested/agreed with it as a compromise, because they were lying. Plus it just looks bad on paper, the media would have a field day with such a toggle. ''Gays-be-gone' one click to erase the gays from your world. Better for EA to scrap s/s altogether and claim $$$ factors than to face that 'political ****storm'

[halokitty]

I know Bioware is whole-heartedly against the idea, but I still feel that choosing your characters orientation is a reasonable alternative to a "Turn Off The Gay" toggle. We already choose our character's gender, race, eye color and other immutable traits, why not the option to determine their sexuality? It would allow us to play fully-realized and affirmed s/s oriented characters, while at the same time allowing all the horrified straight boys to firmly assert their unshakable heterosexuality from the get-go.

[ElitePinecone]

halokitty wrote...

I know Bioware is whole-heartedly against the idea, but I still feel that choosing your characters orientation is a reasonable alternative to a "Turn Off The Gay" toggle. We already choose our character's gender, race, eye color and other immutable traits, why not the option to determine their sexuality? It would allow us to play fully-realized and affirmed s/s oriented characters, while at the same time allowing all the horrified straight boys to firmly assert their unshakable heterosexuality from the get-go.

I don't really gel to the idea that there should be an option to remove *optional* content just because one disagrees with it. There's no toggle for sadistic renegade options, for example, even though many would find them distasteful. I can appreciate that it would make things easier, but covering up or delineating content into discrete boxes for players isn't really something I'd suggest. 

There are also issues with publicity; apart from any media reaction ("game lets players block gay content"?) I'd tend to think this would advertise the existence of any s/s far more widely than just putting it in the game. A few lines of dialogue in a 40 or 50 hour game is an order of magnitude below "an option on the character creation screen" in terms of its accessibility. There's a good chance many players who would never have noticed the s/s content would see it on the menu screen and be outraged anyway.

I'm not totally against the idea, and if it came down to it I'd rather something than nothing, but I have my reservations. 

[Reapinger]

Shepherd was intended to be straight from the beginning; it's a character default end of story. Bioware also was probably avoiding any political backlash for having that kind of content. Making Shepherd straight as a basal character negates the choice. If you want to express gay, then play ME 1 as female Shepherd and romance Liara.

[Cootie]

I still think any compromise that allows people to just ignore the existance of s/s content, whether it is by a toggle, or by a somewhat subtler toggle like choosing your orientation, is completely unjustified.
If such a toggle would have to be implemented in order to not offend people, well... let's just say that it's MORE offensive, and it actually breaks a part of my spirit that we're even discussing this as though it was an actual suggestion.

I say, bother that nonsense. Give us an all-around-romancable crew and everyone will be able to enjoy their game just as much as the rest of the world.
To be flat out honest, it's not that big of a deal. Really.

If having a homosexual man on the crew offends you more than hiring convicted murderers and psychopaths, it says a lot about you, that's all I'm saying.

EDIT:

Reapinger wrote...

Shepherd was intended to be straight
from the beginning; it's a character default end of story. Bioware also
was probably avoiding any political backlash for having that kind of
content. Making Shepherd straight as a basal character negates the
choice. If you want to express gay, then play ME 1 as female Shepherd
and romance Liara.

We have dismissed such claims. Please read through the first set of posts and get an introduction to the subject.
Moving on...

Modifié par Cootie, 22 avril 2011 - 01:58 .

[Reapinger]

Cootie wrote...

I still think any compromise that allows people to just ignore the existance of s/s content, whether it is by a toggle, or by a somewhat subtler toggle like choosing your orientation, is completely unjustified.
If such a toggle would have to be implemented in order to not offend people, well... let's just say that it's MORE offensive, and it actually breaks a part of my spirit that we're even discussing this as though it was an actual suggestion.

I say, bother that nonsense. Give us an all-around-romancable crew and everyone will be able to enjoy their game just as much as the rest of the world.
To be flat out honest, it's not that big of a deal. Really.

If having a homosexual man on the crew offends you more than hiring convicted murderers and psychopaths, it says a lot about you, that's all I'm saying.

I agree hahahaha. Probably just a politically charged issue BioWare didn't want to touch. 

[halokitty]

Cootie wrote...

If having a homosexual man on the crew offends you more than hiring convicted murderers and psychopaths, it says a lot about you, that's all I'm saying.

Perfect!  Possibly the only point that needs made from now on. 

[catabuca]

Reapinger wrote...

Shepherd was intended to be straight from the beginning; it's a character default end of story. Bioware also was probably avoiding any political backlash for having that kind of content. Making Shepherd straight as a basal character negates the choice. If you want to express gay, then play ME 1 as female Shepherd and romance Liara.

You're contradicting yourself there honey.

"Shepard was intended to be straight ... if you want to play gay play as femShep"

Does not compute.

[Gossip]

halokitty wrote...

Cootie wrote...

If having a homosexual man on the crew offends you more than hiring convicted murderers and psychopaths, it says a lot about you, that's all I'm saying.

Perfect!  Possibly the only point that needs made from now on. 

[Maugrim]

Cootie wrote...

If having a homosexual man on the crew offends you more than hiring convicted murderers and psychopaths, it says a lot about you, that's all I'm saying.

What's the difference?




....

Figure I'd beat them to the punch

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 22 avril 2011 - 03:02 .

[ElitePinecone]

halokitty wrote...

Cootie wrote...

If having a homosexual man on the crew offends you more than hiring convicted murderers and psychopaths, it says a lot about you, that's all I'm saying.

Perfect!  Possibly the only point that needs made from now on. 

[Cootie]

Are you guys saying I did a "/thread" after 240-ish pages? O_o

[AngelicMachinery]

Nyoka wrote...

catabuca wrote...

Reapinger wrote...

Shepherd was intended to be straight from the beginning; it's a character default end of story. Bioware also was probably avoiding any political backlash for having that kind of content. Making Shepherd straight as a basal character negates the choice. If you want to express gay, then play ME 1 as female Shepherd and romance Liara.

You're contradicting yourself there honey.

"Shepard was intended to be straight ... if you want to play gay play as femShep"

Does not compute.

That's because Femshep is not really Shepard, silly. The only true Shepard is the one that is a man. Read in the forums, not making this up: "femshep...was thrown in to give the girls a heroin."

Something inside my brain exploded.

[catabuca]

Cootie wrote...

Are you guys saying I did a "/thread" after 240-ish pages? O_o

*gives Cootie an end-of-thread cookie*

*claps*

Bravo.

[ElitePinecone]

Nyoka wrote...

Read in the forums, not making this up: "femshep...was thrown in to give the girls a heroin."

That's one of the reasons why I feel uncomfortable with Bioware pushing the male protagonists so hard in their marketing. 

Despite answers like this from Muzayka in a recent Game Informer interview:

"That said, for the marketing face we have to make a choice. And it’s a tough choice to pick an iconic face -- the face of the brand. You have to pick an iconic representation for the brand and it comes down to the marketing team’s intuition. It’s not easy because we know a lot of the fans enjoy playing the female lead so we always make sure it’s just as high quality as the male lead for the main characters in our games."

The "intention" or "assumption" that femShep or femHawke gets equal development treatment isn't always comprehended by fans who only see the game at face, or cover, or advertising, value. Hence the comments that 
"femshep...was thrown in to give the girls a heroin."

I don't doubt Bioware's committment to making femShep every bit as good as maleShep - but the (necessary?) choice to put mShep and only mShep on the cover of everything has its consequences. One is assuming that femShep is superfluous, another (commonly seen in this thread) is that "Shepard" is a defined character with Sheploo's face and blazing guns who is most certainly a testosterone-fuelled meatbag.