9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Centauri2002]

jlb524 wrote...

Oh, now let's wait and see if he acknowledges anyone's counter-points!

One step at a time! Can't expect too much now. 

[catabuca]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

All that during the time it took me to make a sandwich? I think ARWA is behind this......

All right, time to explain. *puts on thinking hat*

First, I will address 1 and 2.

How would they be cheapened and lose their uniqueness? Just by the fact that they are available for both Shepards. I play as both female and male Shepards for the different romances. If the romances are now available to each at the end

But ... but ... you've said yourself you'd support new bisexual characters, just not old ones. But, but, they would be available to both genders of Shepard ... they wouldn't be unique! They would be cheap! So you don't mind about cheapness and a lack of uniqueness if it's a new character?

*scratches head*

[Ryzaki]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

All that during the time it took me to make a sandwich? I think ARWA is behind this......

All right, time to explain. *puts on thinking hat*

First, I will address 1 and 2.

How would they be cheapened and lose their uniqueness? Just by the fact that they are available for both Shepards. I play as both female and male Shepards for the different romances. If the romances are now available to each at the end

So...Liara's a cheaper romance than Tali? 

...  

Edit: *grabs some popcorn and sit down* 

Go ahead. Explain. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 avril 2011 - 07:15 .

[catabuca]

thatguy212 wrote...

Ramirez if you don't want a homosexual romance then just avoid, no reason to not have one in the game, and what would be so bad about making an existing character bisexual? are you afraid tali will leave shepard for liara?

*awards thatguy a cookie* Bravo.

[earthbornFemShep]

blazin130791 wrote...

So to reiterate; you don't really have all that much support, you obviously have a less realistic view of the demographic than me and you suck.

Why is the need for gay romances so strong?

N.B I'm not a homophobe and have no problem with gay people.

For someone who claims not to be 'childish', telling someone 'you suck' is not very mature.

As to 'why' we want this... 

earthbornFemShep wrote... <excerpt>
ownership of a character is powerful whether it be relative to race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, or nationality.

Now,
developers are including even more options to reflect ourselves and our
choices in the characters we play.  We don't want to play a stereotype
or see stereotypical (or downright insulting) squaddies included as
jokes or for mockery.  Seeing a strong, well-adjusted character that the
player can relate to is very positive. 

rather than repost my entire post, see my posts on page 181 of this thread.   http://social.biowar...dex/2883314/181

[Jademoon121]

Seems the posting has slowed a bit...might as well enjoy the nice weather.

[ADLegend21]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

All that during the time it took me to make a sandwich? I think ARWA is behind this......

All right, time to explain. *puts on thinking hat*

First, I will address 1 and 2.

How would they be cheapened and lose their uniqueness? Just by the fact that they are available for both Shepards. I play as both female and male Shepards for the different romances. If the romances are now available to each at the end

I play femshep and on the PC I modded her to have romanced Ashley in ME1 and she gets cuddle time with Miri as well. doesn't stop me from making more of them that romance guys. That's the point of an RPG to role play. I have shepard's of all sexual orientations. My canon male is straight (he's a self insert andI'm straight) My canon femshep is Bisexual. I have lesbian femsheps and am going to create a gay Male Shep in case there IS an m/m romance in Me3. Doesn't mean the different Genders aren't unique at all. Also, I'm not part of the ARWA don't asume dude.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Maybe what's taking me so long is that I'm doing other things IRL than just posting here, so be patient.

Maybe I'm being misread here. I'm saying that making current LIs bi makes them cheap, but a new character wouldn't be cheaper or less unique because they already started out that way.

[adneate]

When people try to play the "Demographic" game they have no idea what they're talking about if we went by the demographics for Mass Effect's audience the cast would be white as snow and a total sausage fest.

[Siansonea]

What's funny is that there are valid, non-homophobic concerns regarding making existing LI characters bisexual, but none of the Talimancers are bringing them up. I am personally on the fence about this issue, mainly because I'm not sure BioWare can write any romance well after the massive fail of the Tali romance, and the rather lukewarm quality of most of the other ME2 romances. If it could be done well, it would be cool and would make sense for some of the characters, but if it's a Tali-style Fanservice With A Capital F, then I'd say no thanks, just give us new characters for same-sex LIs.

So why am I the one bringing this up, when I'm not even actually against the idea in principle? All of the "reasons" people are giving actually boil down to "I don't like it". They don't want to share their favorite character, even though—hate to break it to you—you already ARE sharing your favorite character with 500,000 other teenage boys, you're just all playing MaleSheps.

[Siansonea]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Maybe what's taking me so long is that I'm doing other things IRL than just posting here, so be patient.

Maybe I'm being misread here. I'm saying that making current LIs bi makes them cheap, but a new character wouldn't be cheaper or less unique because they already started out that way.

Did that even make sense in your head? Because on paper, it makes ZERO sense.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 24 avril 2011 - 07:20 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Maybe what's taking me so long is that I'm doing other things IRL than just posting here, so be patient.

Maybe I'm being misread here. I'm saying that making current LIs bi makes them cheap, but a new character wouldn't be cheaper or less unique because they already started out that way.

I actually agree with this one right here. More specifically, I would be fine with bisexualizing one or two of the current ones, but certainly not all. I also think this new James Sanders should be bi, as to say the "male" version of Liara.

[Maugrim]

Siansonea II wrote...

So why am I the one bringing this up, when I'm not even actually against the idea in principle? All of the "reasons" people are giving actually boil down to "I don't like it". They don't want to share their favorite character, even though—hate to break it to you—you already ARE sharing your favorite character with 500,000 other teenage boys, you're just all playing MaleSheps.

"And if there is any doubt why such an opinion might be met with hostility, it has to do with privilege. You can write it off as “political correctness” if you wish, but the truth is that privilege always lies with the majority. They’re so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance. They don’t see anything wrong with having things set up to suit them, what’s everyone’s fuss all about? That’s the way it should be, any everyone else should be used to not getting what they want." -David Gaider

I think this just needs to be repeated every few pages on every romance thread.

[Siansonea]

adneate wrote...

When people try to play the "Demographic" game they have no idea what they're talking about if we went by the demographics for Mass Effect's audience the cast would be white as snow and a total sausage fest.

Yeah, if it was all about what the majority wants, it wouldn't be a custom character at all, it would just be the story of John Shepard, badasssss Alliance Soldier and Butcher of Torfan, who shags a blue minx in the first game, then hooks up with his One True Love, the always ad'awwable Tali'Zorah vas Normandy in ME2, and everybody else just tells Shepard how awesome Tali is when you talk to them.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 24 avril 2011 - 07:23 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@Siansonea II It makes sense. Read it again.

[Ryzaki]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Maybe what's taking me so long is that I'm doing other things IRL than just posting here, so be patient.

Maybe I'm being misread here. I'm saying that making current LIs bi makes them cheap, but a new character wouldn't be cheaper or less unique because they already started out that way.

Making Tali an LI instead of having a new one makes her cheap, a new character wouldn't be cheaper or less uniqe because they already started as an LI. 

[KnightOfTwo]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Maybe what's taking me so long is that I'm doing other things IRL than just posting here, so be patient.

Maybe I'm being misread here. I'm saying that making current LIs bi makes them cheap, but a new character wouldn't be cheaper or less unique because they already started out that way.

Making Tali an LI instead of having a new one makes her cheap, a new character wouldn't be cheaper or less uniqe because they already started as an LI. 

That's different. Tali was added as a LI because we fans wanted her to be. Making her bi would just be pandering to the.....wait, what?

[catabuca]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Maybe what's taking me so long is that I'm doing other things IRL than just posting here, so be patient.

Maybe I'm being misread here. I'm saying that making current LIs bi makes them cheap, but a new character wouldn't be cheaper or less unique because they already started out that way.

That makes zero sense. Your argument is that a bisexual LI being able to be romanced by both genders of Shepard would make the romance less unique because that content was available to all regardless of which gender they played as. That 'fact' does not change in any way shape or form if that bisexual LI is an existing character or a new one.

You cannot, my friend, have your cake and eat it with this argument. You've dug yourself into a bit of a hole, old chap.

[Biotic_Warlock]

No matter wether tali becomes bi or not, a lot of talimancers are going to be upset. O_o

Possibly same with calibration addicts.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

No matter wether tali becomes bi or not, a lot of talimancers are going to be upset. O_o

Possibly same with calibration addicts.

Arguments for different premises: Gotta love 'em!

[pvt fc jenkins]

Instead of ranting, let's think of characters that could possibly be made bi without cheapening them. Jack, she has had sexual relations with both genders. Mir.... no. Ja.... no. Gar... rus? Possibly. Thane? Thane is open minded enough. Maybe just Thane and Jack.

[ADLegend21]

Which is worse I wonder, the fact that you can kill Tali by Ejaculating inside of her, the fact that Garrus can cause Shepard to going into anaphalactic (sp?) shock by doing the same (more specifically her "ingesting") or that fact that they could still ifnd that they have the same feelings for the same person if their Gender is different? I also agree with Sian when she says Tali's already being romanced by thousands of other players whoplay maleshep so what's the point of adding thousands more who play femshep? wouldn't you WANT the LI's to possibly have more fans if their romance was less exclusive since oyu already know you're not the only one who loves them?

[Centauri2002]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@Siansonea II It makes sense. Read it again.

Actually, I don't get it either. You're saying that because everyone has access to that romance, it's cheapened? So if every player rolled up a MaleShep to romance Tali, her romance would be cheapened? Because every player has played it?

What difference does it make if a MaleShep and a FemShep both have the chance to romance, say, Kaiden? They don't exist in the same play through. And they're both the same character, just different genders.

[ADLegend21]

pvt fc jenkins wrote...

Instead of ranting, let's think of characters that could possibly be made bi without cheapening them. Jack, she has had sexual relations with both genders. Mir.... no. Ja.... no. Gar... rus? Possibly. Thane? Thane is open minded enough. Maybe just Thane and Jack.

Miranda, YES. regardless of Gender she spends two years learning about Shepard. She sees the naked and has the option (which I have her take with my femshep) to alter them a little to make them attractive to her. She knows every secret they have, the measurements and fuctions of their body, I can only rationalize that she was holding back from doing the arm touch to femshep like she does Male shep after you do her LM. Jacob would be a stretch, but he could be in the closet for all we know with a male shep PT.

[AngelicMachinery]

pvt fc jenkins wrote...

Instead of ranting, let's think of characters that could possibly be made bi without cheapening them. Jack, she has had sexual relations with both genders. Mir.... no. Ja.... no. Gar... rus? Possibly. Thane? Thane is open minded enough. Maybe just Thane and Jack.

Grunt,  I see nothing to suggest he's straight.  I mean,  he got a bunch of breeding invitations and he turned them down, that must mean he's gay right?