9243 réponses à ce sujet

[ADLegend21]

lolwut666 wrote...

You're just in it for the fanservice.

It's amazing how Mass Effect's universe, gameplay and story have apparently taken a backseat to the romance.

It was a mistake from BioWare to have implemented this option in the first place. If Shepard was just a soldier fighting across the galaxy, crap like this topic would never have happened.

Everyone is in it for the fanservice. Bioware's made money and the romance is a SUB Plot. this thread focuses on that SUB plot. it always has an alsways will. there are threads for the main plot, but that doens't mean that we dno't care about that. Also would you stop being so abrasive and rude? maybe that way we can help keep this thread civil with everoyne talking to each other as equals instead of adversaries. Taht way we could accept eachother's views better and find common ground. Peace and love bro.

[Jademoon121]

lolwut666 wrote...

rynluna wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

Thanks for proving me right, rabid, irrational, unreasonable fanbot of gay romance.

I said earlier that BioWare should just throw in one gay romance to shut up the likes of you, and now you say that I'm on that Ramirez fellow's side and that I oppose gay romance in Mass Effect.

So, basically, unless I come into this thread and say that I want Garrus, Thane, Miranda and cia. to be bisexual, I'm a troll?

Laughable.

Thanks for proving that you have no sense of reading comprehension.  Many people are game with new romance options but seeing as that we are in a forum for discussion, we also like to discuss existing character romances.  You want BioWare to give us a new romance so we can all "shut up" and we're the unreasonable ones? 

Thanks for proving that you are a moron. What does that have do do with anything I said?

"Discussing existing character romances"? I don't see it. What I see is "discussing the possibility of turning existing love interests bisexual".

And yes, that is more reasonable, because retconing a character only to suit the needs of leecherous yaoi/yuri fanbots is ridiculous. And don't even start with "oh, but look what hey did to Tali and Garrus", because that's trying to use one mistake to justify another one.

I sense ALOT of latent agression in these posts...is it just me?

[Siansonea]

lolwut666 wrote...

rynluna wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

Thanks for proving me right, rabid, irrational, unreasonable fanbot of gay romance.

I said earlier that BioWare should just throw in one gay romance to shut up the likes of you, and now you say that I'm on that Ramirez fellow's side and that I oppose gay romance in Mass Effect.

So, basically, unless I come into this thread and say that I want Garrus, Thane, Miranda and cia. to be bisexual, I'm a troll?

Laughable.

Thanks for proving that you have no sense of reading comprehension.  Many people are game with new romance options but seeing as that we are in a forum for discussion, we also like to discuss existing character romances.  You want BioWare to give us a new romance so we can all "shut up" and we're the unreasonable ones? 

Thanks for proving that you are a moron. What does that have do do with anything I said?

"Discussing existing character romances"? I don't see it. What I see is "discussing the possibility of turning existing love interests bisexual".

And yes, that is more reasonable, because retconing a character only to suit the needs of leecherous yaoi/yuri fanbots is ridiculous. And don't even start with "oh, but look what hey did to Tali and Garrus", because that's trying to use one mistake to justify another one.

Hey Sunshine, cool it with the insults, why don't you? You're not exactly painting a portrait of yourself as a dispassionate, reasonable human being. Or do you not see the irony of you coming in here, calling everyone else rabid and unreasonable, all the while slinging insults at all and sundry, willy-nilly? Because trust me, the rest of us totally see the irony.

[Almostfaceman]

I think everyone should tone it down and re-read the OP to gain some perspective on what the intent of the thread was - one particular line stands out "we come in peace" and "don't hate the haters". But whatever.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@rynluna Actually, I've never said that I'm against same sex romances in ME3, just changing current ones.

@ADLegend21 I never made that post, you just interpreted me as that. I have already explained why I said that, yet it keeps on being dismissed. And no, I'm not insulting any of the other character fan bases.

[Siansonea]

Jademoon121 wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

rynluna wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

Thanks for proving me right, rabid, irrational, unreasonable fanbot of gay romance.

I said earlier that BioWare should just throw in one gay romance to shut up the likes of you, and now you say that I'm on that Ramirez fellow's side and that I oppose gay romance in Mass Effect.

So, basically, unless I come into this thread and say that I want Garrus, Thane, Miranda and cia. to be bisexual, I'm a troll?

Laughable.

Thanks for proving that you have no sense of reading comprehension.  Many people are game with new romance options but seeing as that we are in a forum for discussion, we also like to discuss existing character romances.  You want BioWare to give us a new romance so we can all "shut up" and we're the unreasonable ones? 

Thanks for proving that you are a moron. What does that have do do with anything I said?

"Discussing existing character romances"? I don't see it. What I see is "discussing the possibility of turning existing love interests bisexual".

And yes, that is more reasonable, because retconing a character only to suit the needs of leecherous yaoi/yuri fanbots is ridiculous. And don't even start with "oh, but look what hey did to Tali and Garrus", because that's trying to use one mistake to justify another one.

I sense ALOT of latent agression in these posts...is it just me?

Not so much "latent" as it is "blatant".

[darknoon5]

Ramirez, can I just ask why you don't have a problem with Tali being "retconned," but you would if other characters were? A lot of people have asked the question, and you just seem to skirt around the issue without answering it.

[Jademoon121]

Siansonea II wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

rynluna wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

Thanks for proving me right, rabid, irrational, unreasonable fanbot of gay romance.

I said earlier that BioWare should just throw in one gay romance to shut up the likes of you, and now you say that I'm on that Ramirez fellow's side and that I oppose gay romance in Mass Effect.

So, basically, unless I come into this thread and say that I want Garrus, Thane, Miranda and cia. to be bisexual, I'm a troll?

Laughable.

Thanks for proving that you have no sense of reading comprehension.  Many people are game with new romance options but seeing as that we are in a forum for discussion, we also like to discuss existing character romances.  You want BioWare to give us a new romance so we can all "shut up" and we're the unreasonable ones? 

Thanks for proving that you are a moron. What does that have do do with anything I said?

"Discussing existing character romances"? I don't see it. What I see is "discussing the possibility of turning existing love interests bisexual".

And yes, that is more reasonable, because retconing a character only to suit the needs of leecherous yaoi/yuri fanbots is ridiculous. And don't even start with "oh, but look what hey did to Tali and Garrus", because that's trying to use one mistake to justify another one.

I sense ALOT of latent agression in these posts...is it just me?

Not so much "latent" as it is "blatant".

/shrugs

Had to have come from somwhere. I remember this guy being on here sometime ago.
It was most entertaining.

[Siansonea]

Almostfaceman wrote...

I think everyone should tone it down and re-read the OP to gain some perspective on what the intent of the thread was - one particular line stands out "we come in peace" and "don't hate the haters". But whatever.

That's a good call. For my part, I don't hate the haters. Can't say I respect them much, if at all, but hate is far too much effort to waste on such persons.

[Servo to the bitter end]

darknoon5 wrote...

Ramirez, can I just ask why you don't have a problem with Tali being "retconned," but you would if other characters were? A lot of people have asked the question, and you just seem to skirt around the issue without answering it.

He won't answer that. I think at this point, we've dismissed his claims and just moved on.

[ADLegend21]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...


@ADLegend21 I never made that post, you just interpreted me as that. I have already explained why I said that, yet it keeps on being dismissed. And no, I'm not insulting any of the other character fan bases.

it get's  dismissed because it's not a vaild point! that is the sum of your point. You ahve no problem with previously unromanceable characters being retconned for romance, but when it ocmes to other characters, they cannot have the same treatment. that is discriminattory and selfish whihc means that it's not reasonable. therefore, "dismissed". I'm osrry , but that's how it is here. Bring your A gmae next time and at elast ackjnowledge when you're wrong man. it happens.

[Siansonea]

darknoon5 wrote...

Ramirez, can I just ask why you don't have a problem with Tali being "retconned," but you would if other characters were? A lot of people have asked the question, and you just seem to skirt around the issue without answering it.

All we can get out of him is "because it already happened", which makes no sense. It's like saying 2+2 = Egypt. But if you can get a better answer out of him, hat's off to you.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@darknoon5

Whether or not Tali and Garrus were "retconned" depends on one's perspective. But that isn't the issue here.

Why do I not care about that? Like I said before, because it already happened. If I considered it problem, I wouldn't complain about it as there is nothing I could do about it, because it already happened.

I don't see a point in going on about the past, I'd rather talk about a possible future.

This is my honest answer.

[Jademoon121]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@darknoon5

Whether or not Tali and Garrus were "retconned" depends on one's perspective. But that isn't the issue here.

Why do I not care about that? Like I said before, because it already happened. If I considered it problem, I wouldn't complain about it as there is nothing I could do about it, because it already happened.

I don't see a point in going on about the past, I'd rather talk about a possible future.

This is my honest answer.

Then we can agree if Kaiden or Ashley are "retconned", it's purely subjective.
Again, you're repeating things that have been refuted. Just because Garrus and Tali being romancable due to fanservice already, isn't a good enough argument for one more "retcon".

[Maugrim]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@darknoon5

Whether or not Tali and Garrus were "retconned" depends on one's perspective. But that isn't the issue here.

Why do I not care about that? Like I said before, because it already happened. If I considered it problem, I wouldn't complain about it as there is nothing I could do about it, because it already happened.

I don't see a point in going on about the past, I'd rather talk about a possible future.

This is my honest answer.

Kaidan and Ashley were already written as bisexual, so it wouldn't be a retcon.  Don't ask for proof again it's been linked at least 5 times in this thread.  If anything it would be removing a retcon caused by time and money issues.  And please spare me the "I don't see it that way."  To quote the esteemed John Adams "Facts are stubborn things." and don't change just because they don't support your viewpoint.

So why do you keep dismissing them then hmmm? I wonder why....

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 25 avril 2011 - 09:30 .

[Siansonea]

What did I tell you, Darknoon? Fails to see the relevance of a precedent, fails to acknowledge the relevance of a precedent, and simply ignores questions that point out the basic flaws in his logic/reasoning. Repeatedly refuses to address those flaws. It's like there is a whole set of steps skipped in the reasoning process.

Ironically, I don't 100% agree with either side of the Existing Character As Bisexual LI argument, and yet for all the impassioned pleas to preserve the precious heterosexuality of the existing LIs, very few people are making worthwhile points to support the status quo. And Ramirez Wolfen isn't any of those people. What I'm getting from his posts is a long series of "well, because!" and its variants. We ask very pointed questions, and he just deflects. I've seen it happen a hundred times with this one.

[Wittand25]

Siansonea II wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Ramirez, can I just ask why you don't have a problem with Tali being "retconned," but you would if other characters were? A lot of people have asked the question, and you just seem to skirt around the issue without answering it.

All we can get out of him is "because it already happened", which makes no sense. It's like saying 2+2 = Egypt. But if you can get a better answer out of him, hat's off to you.

It actually makes sense. From his point of view:
Changing Tali was a mistake, that cannot be undone.
Repeating that mistake with another character is wrong.

I do not agree with that since I believe that should an old LI become available for both sexes in ME3 it will depend on the writing whether it was a mistake or not.
Anyway the only four old LIs that are confirmed to be somewhat playable in ME3 are the VS, Liara and Garrus. And the key word here is somewhat. Since there will be new crew (according to the recent Belgian preview) we do not even know if anyone comes back as full squad mate and LI so I think tat we should calm down regarding the issue of turning characters bi since tempers get heated and all the fuss could turn out pointless when we learn that the VS won´t get a much bigger role than Jenkins in ME1.

Modifié par Wittand25, 25 avril 2011 - 09:34 .

[earthbornFemShep]

centauri2002 wrote...

rynluna wrote...

As a person who roleplays lesbian Shepards, I've had to deal with my Shepard sounding like a cougar in heat with Jacob and other flirty dialog from male crew members.  You don't see me whining about the game being ruined because of all this happening.  I guess I'm just secure in my sexuality and know that I'm not going to go straight from these instances in the game.

This. 

I don't like the interaction between Jacob and Shepard because of that but I can still enjoy the game. It doesn't change my Shepard either. She's still a lesbian. I just ignore it when I have to talk to him now. Or just avoid conversation with him in general. 

I would never ask for his romance to be removed from the game because it felt strange to me.

yes, I've never liked talking to Jacob mainly because it sounds like femshep is sexually harassing him EVERY time she greets him.  Ugh.  

I've talked about this with friends and on other threads and it is definitely NOT just an issue for the lesbian Shepards.  A lot of people are a bit off-put by the fact that their shepard would speak to Jacob that way, when they have yet to express any interest toward him.  Hopefully, in the next game they will watch their tone in these kinds of conversations.  I think they did a pretty good job with tone in ME1 for K/A.  They changed their tone when they were expressing interest, and Shepard could choose to just ask friendly questions or hint back.  I liked that better... tho, in the end they still thought you liked them even if you were just nice to them... awkward (it's been fixed in ME2... save for Jack. )

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@Jademoon121

So basically, I provide an answer, and the response is "NOT GOOD ENOUGH!"? Now I see why this thread never actually goes anywhere.....

And because that happened with Garrus and Tali doesn't mean it should happen to everyone in ME3.

Also, I don't recall saying that making Ashley/Kaidan would be a retcon..........

[Targy90]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@darknoon5

Whether or not Tali and Garrus were "retconned" depends on one's perspective. But that isn't the issue here.

Why do I not care about that? Like I said before, because it already happened. If I considered it problem, I wouldn't complain about it as there is nothing I could do about it, because it already happened.

I don't see a point in going on about the past, I'd rather talk about a possible future.

This is my honest answer.

Kaidan and Ashley were already written as bisexual, so it wouldn't be a retcon.  Don't ask for proof again it's been linked at least 5 times in this thread.  If anything it would be removing a retcon caused by time and money issues.  And please spare me the "I don't see it that way."  To quote the esteemed John Adams "Facts are stubborn things." and don't change just because they don't support your viewpoint.

So why do you keep dismissing them then hmmm? I wonder why....

Where was it stated that Kaiden and Ashley were written as bisexual?

[jlb524]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@darknoon5

Whether or not Tali and Garrus were "retconned" depends on one's perspective. But that isn't the issue here.

Why do I not care about that? Like I said before, because it already happened. If I considered it problem, I wouldn't complain about it as there is nothing I could do about it, because it already happened.

I don't see a point in going on about the past, I'd rather talk about a possible future.

This is my honest answer.

But you should consider it a problem, given your own logic and something can be done about it (they can kill the Tali/Garrus romances in ME3...problem solved!)

[darknoon5]

Targy90 wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@darknoon5

Whether or not Tali and Garrus were "retconned" depends on one's perspective. But that isn't the issue here.

Why do I not care about that? Like I said before, because it already happened. If I considered it problem, I wouldn't complain about it as there is nothing I could do about it, because it already happened.

I don't see a point in going on about the past, I'd rather talk about a possible future.

This is my honest answer.

Kaidan and Ashley were already written as bisexual, so it wouldn't be a retcon.  Don't ask for proof again it's been linked at least 5 times in this thread.  If anything it would be removing a retcon caused by time and money issues.  And please spare me the "I don't see it that way."  To quote the esteemed John Adams "Facts are stubborn things." and don't change just because they don't support your viewpoint.

So why do you keep dismissing them then hmmm? I wonder why....

Where was it stated that Kaiden and Ashley were written as bisexual?

Dialog was recorded, but was not included in the game.

But, Ramirez, you obviously don't dissaprove of Tali being romanceable. Should she have her romance removed in ME3 to remove the retcon and return to the original? I doubt you would be pleased.

You don't view it as a mistake, so why would you view Bioware doing the exact same thing with other characters as a mistake?

[Servo to the bitter end]

Targy90 wrote...

Where was it stated that Kaiden and Ashley were written as bisexual?

Dialog was recorded for s/s pairings with both of them and has been dug out of the game files. You can listen to them on youtube and there are links in the OP and throughout this thread. Same deal with ME2.