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[catabuca]

Whoa, finally got finished reading 40+ pages of this thread. You go away for a few days .... *shakes head*

A few pages back someone talked about how wonderful it would be to have a conversation with the person you're going to romance, talking about why you hadn't approached them in the previous 2 games, an exposition on the lack of s/s of sorts. This is exactly what I've been wanting for so long, and what I use to show what great character development it could be.

Imagine: Shep and Kaidan finally meet up again, the harsh words on Horizon still stinging in their ears. They've had time to assess what happened, to think about everything they have been through together. They worked so closely while hunting Saren, created a deep bond of friendship. When Shep chose to save Kaidan over Ashley on Virmire, they both had to deal with the guilt, the pain, the loss of that decision. Imagine what went through their minds at that point. Wow.

And then Kaidan sees this man he admires die, his friend, the only real hope the galaxy had. Imagine the pain, the sense of hopelessness: not only did he lose a friend, someone who had gone to hell and back with him and for him, but he knew the galaxy lost someone crucial to its survival. That's gotta bring how you feel about someone into sharp perspective.

And then he finds out Shepard is alive! The thoughts raging through his brain must have been tumultuous. He's back! He's alive! Kaidan can't believe it. He's so relieved, so overwhelmed, his heart swells knowing that the galaxy still has this man, that he still has him. But there is anger, hurt, frustration. He's mad with himself because he realises he never told Shepard how he felt about him, and he's angry with Shepard for leaving him, leaving everyone, angry with Shepard for not being the perfect person he previously thought he was. So they fight. Just imagine the pain and anguish flowing through Kaidan's veins at that point. Powerful stuff, right?

And then they meet again after Shep returns from the Omega-4 Relay. Kaidan won't mess it up again this time. There's too much at stake, too much to lose. Hell, they might both be dead, along with the rest of the galaxy, before long - he can't let it go unsaid any longer. He has to approach Shepard and finally get it out of his system, he owes it to himself .... he owes it to Shep.

Shepard might be a little shocked at first. Not at Kaidan's confession, but at the myriad emotions hurtling around his mind. He's angry Kaidan never said anything sooner, angry they had to fight on Horizon when what Shep needed the most at that time was someone to be close to, someone who knew him, knew what he went through. He thinks back to Virmire, the pain of leaving Ash behind, the way he always had the doubts in his mind if he made that choice for professional reasons or because of how he felt about Kaidan ...

But now, when it looks like it might be too late, the reapers invading, everything going to hell, this man is back in his life, and he sure as hell won't let him slip away again, won't screw it up. And so, finally, looking at each other, a silence so loud it threatens to drown out everything else, Shepard reaches out his hand, reaching out his soul to Kaidan, hoping he will accept and stand by him, be his tether to reality and be his strength in the dark days that are to come -- this man who knows him better than anyone else ...

*cough*

Yeah.

[SennenScale]

One of the current threads in the ME2 forum reminded me of how silly ME is in this department. Found this thread by looking a little. You guys have my support.

S/S is sorely lacking in the Mass Effect games. It would be one thing if Bioware never did any S/S romances, but they have in past games, and there seems to be unique S/S romance dialogue in a couple instances, too.

That's just kinda mean to gays and lesbians to arbitrarily deprive them of roleplay opportunities when you've previously been pretty cool to them.

If they're afraid of alienating straight people, well...I'm pretty irritated at having my roleplay options gimped in the romance department merely because some people can't handle it like an adult. The pure shooter+homophic crowd just needs to deal with it, IMO. I might be straight, but that doesn't mean I like it 100% of the time when a guy makes a pass at me, either. But you know what? I don't fly off the handle over it. If a lesbian girl tries to flirt with me, I don't have a meltdown over it.

Modifié par SennenScale, 01 mai 2011 - 03:29 .

[ElitePinecone]

Hm, I didn't realise it was being so widely discussed in other forums - I count two threads in the ME2 forums alone.

I agree with the 'roleplay options limited' argument, I often have playthroughs where Shepard romances characters I clearly wouldn't go for if it were only mirroring my own preferences, simply because the dialogue is so well done. Liara and femShep's reunion in LotSB, with Hale's voice acting, is amazing.

[SennenScale]

@Pincone:

I think it's because a lot of people cannot separate themselves from their Shepard. I never play characters as me because I'm morbidly afraid of turning her into a Mary Sue. *shudder*


Hey, I'm sure it's been mentioned (has to have been) but 300 pages is a bit much to sort through...how would all you guys have felt if the Asari had been a "unisex but male" species instead of female, and had been a romance option, or would you strongly prefer a human male?

[ElitePinecone]

SennenScale wrote...

Hey, I'm sure it's been mentioned (has to have been) but 300 pages is a bit much to sort through...how would all you guys have felt if the Asari had been a "unisex but male" species instead of female, and had been a romance option, or would you strongly prefer a human male?

We've had several threads like this over the last few months/years - so it's probably closer to 600-700 pages if you go back far enough 

I'm fairly sure a male unisex asari race has been discussed quite a few times, I don't remember everything that was written but for the most part people felt fairly positive - I think.

The more difficult part would be in explaining the biology (they'd still be technically female, because anything that gives birth is by definition 'female'), and I'd personally find it odd if a masculine species was giving birth. I don't really know how that would work...

That being said, from my perspective only (I'm sure other people have different opinions) I would prefer a human character (or close enough to human), something like Thane is too alien to be attractive.

Don't forget as well that this thread is suggesting more romance options for both mShep and femShep - as far as I'm aware Ashley was also originally intended as a same-sex love interest for a female Shepard in Mass Effect. 

[SennenScale]

Hmm..well, what about a race that was strongly sexually dimorphic, to the point where both sexes could almost be considered different species? Or the two sexes were traditionally separated by great distances in their primitive past, so homosexuality or bisexuality is the cultural norm? I'm just considering options that would make it an easier sell to the masses. I think the issue shouldn't have to be dodged like that, but at least an option would be there. I understand that an alien male might not be attractive to some, though.

I know the thread is for F/F romances too, but I think the M/M is a harder sell to your average insecure teenage boy and needs to be cracked first, since to date there is NONE in ME. I do wish there was an honest F/F romance exploited as little as possible. I prefer Ash as a BFF to my Femshep, though I can see the appeal, definitely.Multiple gay options implemented well would be great!

Modifié par SennenScale, 01 mai 2011 - 06:41 .

[TheScrogging]

if there are same sex romances then i'll never buy another bioware game ever again

[Blacklash93]

TheScrogging wrote...

if there are same sex romances then i'll never buy another bioware game ever again

That's wonderful. Thank you for your intelligent and thought-provoking input.
 
Go away.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 01 mai 2011 - 06:50 .

[SennenScale]

TheScrogging wrote...

if there are same sex romances then i'll never buy another bioware game ever again

Have you actually played other bioware games? There's S/S in Dragon Age, Jade Empire, and a partly dummied-out, partly hidden one for Kotor.

[Eiliestl]

TheScrogging wrote...

if there are same sex romances then i'll never buy another bioware game ever again

Yes I feel the same way . Did you see what it did to Dragon Age 2.
[spam image containing profanity removed]
If it is in ME3.....

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 02 mai 2011 - 06:16 .

[Ryzaki]

Eiliestl wrote...

TheScrogging wrote...

if there are same sex romances then i'll never buy another bioware game ever again

Yes I feel the same way . Did you see what it did to Dragon Age 2.
[spam image containing profanity removed]
If it is in ME3.....

I find that amusing since you have a DAO avatar. 

I guess gays being in that game didn't stop you from buying DA2 did it? 

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 02 mai 2011 - 06:16 .

[kill_switch_423]

Eiliestl wrote...

TheScrogging wrote...

if there are same sex romances then i'll never buy another bioware game ever again

Yes I feel the same way . Did you see what it did to Dragon Age 2.
[spam image containing profanity removed]
If it is in ME3.....

Oh noes!  This game depicts a viewpoint that's different than mine!  I'll never play any product released by this company again!

<_<

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 02 mai 2011 - 06:16 .

[ElitePinecone]

Eiliestl wrote...
If it is in ME3.....

It would help if you explained what you found so offensive/disruptive/annoying in the way DA2's romances were handled. 

Was it that all options were bisexual? I don't think many people in this thread are advocating something similar for ME3 - even one or two options for both genders of Shep would be adequate, at least in my view. Is that too severe a suggestion? 

Was it that the romances were shallow or not well done? This isn't strictly an issue for same-sex romances; I found the maleHawke/Anders one to be one of the better Bioware romance arcs I've played through. If this is your issue, then it may be more a fault of the shorter development time - not the fact that same-sex romances were included. 

Was it that there was gay/lesbian content in there at all? If this is the case, grow up. Optional content is optional. Don't click it and you won't have to see it. But for the people that appreciate it, the content means a lot.  

[Eiliestl]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Eiliestl wrote...
If it is in ME3.....

It would help if you explained what you found so offensive/disruptive/annoying in the way DA2's romances were handled. 

Was it that all options were bisexual? I don't think many people in this thread are advocating something similar for ME3 - even one or two options for both genders of Shep would be adequate, at least in my view. Is that too severe a suggestion? 

Was it that the romances were shallow or not well done? This isn't strictly an issue for same-sex romances; I found the maleHawke/Anders one to be one of the better Bioware romance arcs I've played through. If this is your issue, then it may be more a fault of the shorter development time - not the fact that same-sex romances were included. 

Was it that there was gay/lesbian content in there at all? If this is the case, grow up. Optional content is optional. Don't click it and you won't have to see it. But for the people that appreciate it, the content means a lot.  

Offensive/disruptive/annoying ,oh man you really don't want me to get me started .Were would I begin. Long story short same -sex romances should have never been in any of our video games to begin with for one.

Modifié par Eiliestl, 01 mai 2011 - 08:37 .

[SennenScale]

Eiliestl wrote...

Offensive/disruptive/annoying ,oh man you really don't want me to get me started .Were would I begin. Long story short same -sex romances could have never been in any of our video games to begin with for one.

Begin with how it would be somehow disruptive. Is it really that horrible if some anonymous player in New York plays a gay Shep? Just having the option doesn't make your character less straight or anything since romances are fully optional and when being flirted with, you may always turn it down, preferably in a mature manner. Nobody's asking for a gay ninjamance as far as I can tell:everyone wants warning for all romances. If anything, your Shep is all the more straight for turning down gay dudes/lesbians.

[Eiliestl]

SennenScale wrote...

Eiliestl wrote...

Offensive/disruptive/annoying ,oh man you really don't want me to get me started .Were would I begin. Long story short same -sex romances could have never been in any of our video games to begin with for one.

Begin with how it would be somehow disruptive. Is it really that horrible if some anonymous player in New York plays a gay Shep? Just having the option doesn't make your character less straight or anything since romances are fully optional and when being flirted with, you may always turn it down, preferably in a mature manner. Nobody's asking for a gay ninjamance as far as I can tell:everyone wants warning for all romances. If anything, your Shep is all the more straight for turning down gay dudes/lesbians.

I see what you're saying . As long as it's not force on me/or so in your face with it it's fine in other games. Just not in Mass Effect games.Can I just have that.

[catabuca]

Eiliestl wrote...

I see what you're saying . As long as it's not force on me/or so in your face with it it's fine in other games. Just not in Mass Effect games.Can I just have that.

What makes your opinion so special in this regard? Why don't you want it in Mass Effect games but are happy with it being in others? What's so special about Mass Effect? You've already agreed that you would be able to avoid it completely by not clicking any of the buttons that lead to that content, so why do you want to deprive other people of that content? Do you like to know other people are being disenfranchised? Does it make your gaming experience better somehow?

Isn't it better living in a world where you get the warm, fuzzy feeling of knowing everyone is happy, rather than living in a world where some people's experiences are curtailed for your benefit? If there is an option for everyone to get the game they want (i.e. there are some bisexual romances in the game that you need never initiate or see in the game, while other people who not only enjoy that content but for whom that content actually means a great deal can pursue it if they so desire) why would you prefer to go down the route of only you being happy, rather than everyone? It seems a little mean, don't you think?

Modifié par catabuca, 01 mai 2011 - 08:51 .

[Eiliestl]

catabuca wrote...

Eiliestl wrote...

I see what you're saying . As long as it's not force on me/or so in your face with it it's fine in other games. Just not in Mass Effect games.Can I just have that.

What makes your opinion so special in this regard? Why don't you want it in Mass Effect games but are happy with it being in others? What's so special about Mass Effect? You've already agreed that you would be able to avoid it completely by not clicking any of the buttons that lead to that content, so why do you want to deprive other people of that content? Do you like to know other people are being disenfranchised? Does it make your gaming experience better somehow?

Isn't it better living in a world where you get the warm, fuzzy feeling of knowing everyone is happy, rather than living in a world where some people's experiences are curtailed for your benefit? If there is an option for everyone to get the game they want (i.e. there are some bisexual romances in the game that you need never initiate or see in the game, while other people who not only enjoy that content but for whom that content actually means a great deal can pursue it if they so desire) why would you prefer to go down the route of only you being happy, rather than everyone? It seems a little mean, don't you think?

Yes it is ,I really am that selfish.You have no idea.

Modifié par Eiliestl, 01 mai 2011 - 09:04 .

[catabuca]

Thank you for engaging with my comment.

[Saeran]

Eiliestl wrote...
Yes it is ,I really am that selfish.You have no idea.

And that says exactly all we need to know about you. You are homophobic, you are a troll. Let's hope BioWare can look through people like you and see you for exactly what you are.

[Eiliestl]

catabuca wrote...

Thank you for engaging with my comment.

No need to be sarcastic,it's just the way I feel.
And you do know that there is no real maleshep/kaidan right?.
Just saying  

[ElitePinecone]

Thanks for clarifying. With respect there isn't much point engaging with this particular thread if you don't want to suggest constructive ways that s/s can work for future games. Things tend to get ugly when people start fighting and it'd be nice to keep that away from this thread.

You're welcome to start your own thread/group to voice any opinions.

[Eiliestl]

Saeran wrote...

Eiliestl wrote...
Yes it is ,I really am that selfish.You have no idea.

And that says exactly all we need to know about you. You are homophobic, you are a troll. Let's hope BioWare can look through people like you and see you for exactly what you are.

What is homophbic? Can I just not agree?? And I'm not a troll for not agreeing with want you are trying to do.
BioWare needs to know how the other side feels also.

[Maugrim]

[spam post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 02 mai 2011 - 06:17 .

[Eiliestl]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Thanks for clarifying. With respect there isn't much point engaging with this particular thread if you don't want to suggest constructive ways that s/s can work for future games. Things tend to get ugly when people start fighting and it'd be nice to keep that away from this thread.

You're welcome to start your own thread/group to voice any opinions.

You're right I said want I wanted to say . You won't see me here again.