9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Maugrim]

ElitePinecone wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

You know what I want for any future ME games? I want anyone from the DA teams who posts semi-regularly to be assigned to a Lead position on the ME team. At least we might get some damn communication every once in a blue moon then!

That might be a little unfair, ME3's team are probably very busy sculpting movingly heterosexual conclusions for their romances. 

I'm not that worried, it's up to the individual dev to decide to engage in communication and maybe nobody on the ME team has the time or the inclination to submit to a barrage of forum posts? You've seen the virtriol hurled around by some people. 

However, I did like David Gaider's engagement with the DA2 forums, especially his defence of including s/s. Certainly wouldn't complain if more ME members decided to engage, but I can understand why they can't or don't want to. 

No.  A big fat /Sten no. It's not unfair in the slightest, in fact it's probably too nice.    The communication from the ME team both in the mainstream media and the forums has been often hovered between downright bad to insulting.  They can find the time to talk to the media about Shepard being pre-defined to a degree, homosexuality not being PG-13, Liara not being a s/s relationship but can't engage in either meaningful dialogue like the DA team or at least some reassurances like they managed for the Talimancers?  Sorry not buying it.

ETA: Fair warning my sarcasm detector may be broken.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 06 mai 2011 - 06:32 .

[javierabegazo]

@Abramis brama

Stop trolling this thread. That is your final warning.

[KawaiiKatie]

makenzieshepard wrote...

 The communication from the ME team both in the mainstream media and the forums has been often hovered between downright bad to insulting.  They can find the time to talk to the media about Shepard being pre-defined to a degree, homosexuality not being PG-13, Liara not being a s/s relationship but can't engage in either meaningful dialogue like the DA team or at least some reassurances like they managed for the Talimancers?  Sorry not buying it.

This. Just all of this.

The most we ever hear from the Mass Effect team on this forum (and past same-sex forums) has been "stay on topic." Bioware, don't you know that a little nod, a little something would mean the world to us? It can be a small, vague comment like the one Talimancers got, and you know what, it doesn't even have to be favourable for same-sex content. Just a little bit of dialogue that lets us pro-homosexual gamers know that we're even being heard would put a huge smile on my face.

I'd even take a nice PR statement that read, "Homosexual content is not in any future plans for the Mass Effect series." Would that be my ideal outcome to this issue? No. But at least the recognition would prove that the Mass Effect team respects the pro-homosexual gamers who have gathered on this thread. That would honestly be preferable to the silence we currently receive.

Maybe even a, "Yes, we read this forum, and we are aware of the fan support for homosexual content in the Mass Effect series. Thanks for your opinions, and don't forget to buy ME3!"

I mean, that would be a little patronizing, but it would be better than silence, and greatly preferable to "Stay on topic."

[Wittand25]

KawaiiKatie wrote...
Maybe even a, "Yes, we read this forum, and we are aware of the fan support for homosexual content in the Mass Effect series. Thanks for your opinions, and don't forget to buy ME3!"

I mean, that would be a little patronizing, but it would be better than silence, and greatly preferable to "Stay on topic."

I think I remember something like that a couple of weeks ago. Though the poster in question did only have the name of a BioWare employee and not the BioWare tag so that you cannot simply find the post. I ´ll look for i though.

And not to defend those rather insulting remarks regarding s/s content, but they were usually responses in interviews and I always got the impression that the question came unexpected so that they did not have a prepared answer.

[Maugrim]

There are a minimum of 8 heterosexual romance options, 1 asari(lets not even get into the femshep /asari don't count argument) and 1 bisexual but not a full romance option. And us asking for a little acknowledgment is outrageous? We are the entitled ones? Seriously people want to make that argument?

Wittand25 wrote...

And not to defend those rather insulting
remarks regarding s/s content, but they were usually responses in
interviews and I always got the impression that the question came
unexpected so that they did not have a prepared answer.

You go find that quote, I'll be waiting right here for it for the next hour at least.  I'm not saying I couldn't miss it but it would be highly unlikely and the chances of everyone else on this thread missing it aren't good either.  We'd all love to hear something specific to us.  It's just unlikely and I will gladly eat crow if you find it.

Bottom line is if they made something besides those comments an apology or clarification post (Not done through Chris Priestly either) then I'd be the first person to drop it.  That excuse, like fish stinks after about 3 days.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 06 mai 2011 - 07:04 .

[ElitePinecone]

It was a tongue-in-cheek / slightly sarcastic post - but for the most part I agree with you.

I'm just wary of castigating people for not engaging with fans when we don't actually know the reasons behind it. I find it perfect reasonable that people don't want to be abused over the forums, and so don't post about their work where a bunch of random posters, not all of them coherent or articulate or well-mannered, can have their feedback. There's also the point that not every developer can be as articulate and outgoing as David Gaider when it comes to fan interaction, nor would they necessarily have the time of the effort to respond to what would become a mountain of questions.

However. If it's just a matter of being embarrassed about a deliberate lack of s/s, or to avoid media/fan feedback and awkward questions, then I'm in full agreement with your criticism.

[Ashira Shepard]

System Wrecker wrote...
It make sense in the Dragon Age because the characters are new. Shepard is not new. He's established. Can you tell me how an established character suddenly decides to love men tastefully?

 Clever camera angles and greyscale shots of a tender love scene? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angel.png[/smilie]

Seriously though, like others have said, your Shepard is established as a heterosexual man who loves women. Nothing wrong with that. *shrug* Others are homosexual men who love men.

Mine is a homosexual woman who loves women.

Is it just me or do people seem to forget that Shepard is a customizable character? As in unique to the player? Whether that be through pure in-game interaction or external imagination isn't really relevant; it's their Shepard.

Side Note: The LI's in DA2 are gay to me rather than Bi. I've never pursued a straight romance. See how easy that is?

makenzieshepard wrote...
No.  A big fat /Sten no. It's not unfair in the slightest, in fact it's probably too nice.    The communication from the ME team both in the mainstream media and the forums has been often hovered between downright bad to insulting.  They can find the time to talk to the media about Shepard being pre-defined to a degree, homosexuality not being PG-13, Liara not being a s/s relationship but can't engage in either meaningful dialogue like the DA team or at least some reassurances like they managed for the Talimancers?  Sorry not buying it.

My god this.

Just...blargh.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 06 mai 2011 - 07:28 .

[KawaiiKatie]

ElitePinecone wrote...

I'm just wary of castigating people for not engaging with fans when we don't actually know the reasons behind it.

My biggest point is that maybe we could learn the "reasons behind it" (and maybe even come to sympathize) if only the Mass Effect team would actually talk about the same-sex issue, instead of brushing it aside.

But I understand what you mean. Bioware Devs aren't obligated to discuss our concerns, and they aren't allowed to talk about eveything. It's just frustrating when it seems that the only thing they can't talk about is gay male Shepard.

[Wittand25]

makenzieshepard wrote...
You go find that quote, I'll be waiting right here for it for the next hour at least. I'm not saying I couldn't miss it but it would be highly unlikely and the chances of everyone else on this thread missing it aren't good either. We'd all love to hear something specific to us. It's just unlikely and I will gladly eat crow if you find it.

Brian Mills on page 203. If google is right he work as senior technical QA analyst. He basically only says that he reads the thread not if there is any impact to the game or something like that.

[Centauri2002]

makenzieshepard wrote...

No.  A big fat /Sten no. It's not unfair in the slightest, in fact it's probably too nice.    The communication from the ME team both in the mainstream media and the forums has been often hovered between downright bad to insulting.  They can find the time to talk to the media about Shepard being pre-defined to a degree, homosexuality not being PG-13, Liara not being a s/s relationship but can't engage in either meaningful dialogue like the DA team or at least some reassurances like they managed for the Talimancers?  Sorry not buying it.

I would tend to agree. In regards to the Liara/FemShep romance not being same sex (although the suggestion is just absurd to me), if they're going to go with the reasoning that it's because of her race's unique features, then it's also fair to say that every MaleShep involved with Liara are not in a heterosexual relationship either. Let's see them deal with that.

Modifié par centauri2002, 06 mai 2011 - 07:37 .

[Maugrim]

Wittand25 wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...
You go find that quote, I'll be waiting right here for it for the next hour at least. I'm not saying I couldn't miss it but it would be highly unlikely and the chances of everyone else on this thread missing it aren't good either. We'd all love to hear something specific to us. It's just unlikely and I will gladly eat crow if you find it.

Brian Mills on page 203. If google is right he work as senior technical QA analyst. He basically only says that he reads the thread not if there is any impact to the game or something like that.

It's better than nothing, how about I eat half a crow, minus the feet and beak ? 

[Khemi]

System Wrecker wrote...
It make sense in the Dragon Age because the characters are new. Shepard is not new. He's established. Can you tell me how an established character suddenly decides to love men tastefully?

This question has been answered here over and over again. Nothing the male Shepard has inevitably said or done precludes the possibility of him being bisexual or gay. The right guy simply hasn't come along.

Also, in real life people occasionally find out new things about themselves. Sometimes much to their dismay. Two people I know personally were very distressed when they found out they were bisexual, well in their twenties. Then again, some in the same situation just shrug or smile happily.

[KawaiiKatie]

Brian Mills wrote...

catabuca wrote...

(I do wonder if, at this point, any of the ME team even bother reading any of these threads. I'm sure some of them care -- it's just difficult to remember that sometimes, heck, all of the time.)

I read it  Not every day, but I do read it.

Well, whaddya know. There it is. Brian Mills reads this forum. He doesn't have a Bioware nametag or a moderator tag... but whoever he is, he reads this thread. Cool!

Do you still hang out here, Messere Mills? Does anyone on the Mass Effect team follow this thread?

I'm sorry, but I'm really curious now. We've been sitting in silence for so long! The occasional "stay on topic" comment lets us know that we're being monitored.... but sometimes I really doubt that we're being heard. Huge difference, that.

[KawaiiKatie]

centauri2002 wrote...

In regards to the Liara/FemShep romance not being same sex (although the suggestion is just absurd to me), if they're going to go with the reasoning that it's because of her race's unique features, then it's also fair to say that every MaleShep involved with Liara are not in a heterosexual relationship either. Let's see them deal with that.

Haha, this! I would love to see whoever came up with the "Liara isn't female" argument wiggle their way out of "then what is my male Shepard sleeping with?" paradox.

[ElitePinecone]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Do you still hang out here, Messere Mills? Does anyone on the Mass Effect team follow this thread?

I'm sorry, but I'm really curious now. We've been sitting in silence for so long! The occasional "stay on topic" comment lets us know that we're being monitored.... but sometimes I really doubt that we're being heard. Huge difference, that.

*echo, echo* 

I remember reading that (only, oh, 100 pages ago...) and it did reassure me a little that dozens of people in this thread aren't just speaking into a void. 

[Maugrim]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

In regards to the Liara/FemShep romance not being same sex (although the suggestion is just absurd to me), if they're going to go with the reasoning that it's because of her race's unique features, then it's also fair to say that every MaleShep involved with Liara are not in a heterosexual relationship either. Let's see them deal with that.

Haha, this! I would love to see whoever came up with the "Liara isn't female" argument wiggle their way out of "then what is my male Shepard sleeping with?" paradox.

I wonder if he is *remembers her posts back from page 279* That either really hurt or really helped the cause.....

[catabuca]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Fat Headed Wolf wrote...

So quick question for you ladies and gentlemen (not bashing you in any way, shape, or form. Believe me when I say that), but it seems like a M/M Shep romance is getting less and less likely with each passing day.

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised this thread has survived this long-- I guess you can't put a limit on human determination, however. But how long are you guys willing to fight this fight? Let's say ME3 comes out and there isn't a M/M romance. Are you done? Are you gonna stay and voice your opinion until a M/M option is available in a future ME product? Or are you just gonna take you ball and go home?

I'm just interested to see how long some of you are willing to take this. I'm gonna go to sleep, but I look forward to the answers.

That's me anyways.  I don't enter into fights or causes unless I am committed to seeing them through. 

This.

The debate doesn't stop once the game comes out. If (when) there is no m/m in ME3, there are still discussions to be had as to why, still calls to be made for clarification, still a lot of people who will be upset, angry, frustrated at the way they have been consistently ignored (not just in terms of having the content denied, but in terms of being blanked by the team and given insulting comments by them).

What is more, I happen to know for a fact that there are people who have taken great strength from the existence of this thread and others like it. You'd perhaps be surprised at how far this particular debate ranges beyond the virtual walls of bsn as well.

No. The debate will go on, just as it should. And I'll be there, as always.

[catabuca]

Wittand25 wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...
Maybe even a, "Yes, we read this forum, and we are aware of the fan support for homosexual content in the Mass Effect series. Thanks for your opinions, and don't forget to buy ME3!"

I mean, that would be a little patronizing, but it would be better than silence, and greatly preferable to "Stay on topic."

I think I remember something like that a couple of weeks ago. Though the poster in question did only have the name of a BioWare employee and not the BioWare tag so that you cannot simply find the post. I ´ll look for i though.

And not to defend those rather insulting remarks regarding s/s content, but they were usually responses in interviews and I always got the impression that the question came unexpected so that they did not have a prepared answer.

The person you're talking to replied to me, to say he reads the thread as often as he can. He is, however, 'only' a QA tester.

Edit: sorry, just seen this has already been answered. As you were.

Modifié par catabuca, 06 mai 2011 - 12:47 .

[jlb524]

centauri2002 wrote...

I would tend to agree. In regards to the Liara/FemShep romance not being same sex (although the suggestion is just absurd to me), if they're going to go with the reasoning that it's because of her race's unique features, then it's also fair to say that every MaleShep involved with Liara are not in a heterosexual relationship either. Let's see them deal with that.

No, because, um....Male Shepard can't be gay so ...um, Male Shepard is heterosexual regardless...in fact, he's the Paragon of Male Heterosexuality and anything he does is so totally heterosexual, including saving the galaxy from the Collectors and romancing Liara.  None of this applies to FemShep as she's not that important anyway.

/awesome logic

[Travie]

If they are going to do the crappy 'fade to black' love scenes then why not just have Shep be able to have simultaneous relationships with everyone on the crew culminating in a huge orgy. I mean, they'll never show it anyway.

'fade to black' 
Afterwards while everyone is fully clothed: "Wow, that was a great orgy huh?"
"Yep."

Modifié par Travie, 06 mai 2011 - 04:35 .

[Ryzaki]

Well the good thing about no new LIs is my Shepard will probably be able to talk to the new people without them trying to claw his pants off. That'llbe nice.

[Fat Headed Wolf]

Interesting answers so far. Quite enlightening. Many say they will stick it out-- it will be interesting to see if that is actually the case. Keep em' comin'.

We'll be here as long as we want to discuss the subject, I assume that's okay with you?

And could you possibly be more patronizing? What IS the point of your post. You want to know how easily we'll "give up"? Would that somehow bolster your and others' attitude that including same-sex romance content isn't worthwhile? Because we're not going anywhere. We'll await more announcements, and we'll be adults about it, regardless of what BioWare ultimately does. I wish the same could be said of the anti-gay 'lobby'.

Patronizing? Wha?

I'm almost inclined to believe you--

A: Don't know what that word means (which is highly unlikely seeing as you seem quite bright)

B: Are so ready for a poster from outside this thread to bash you guys and gals that you are determined to find them as "patronizing".

or

C: You mistook something I said as demeaning.

As for A or B, you know whether those are the case-- I don't. For C, however, I can't really see anything that could be taken like that except the line (and this is a BIG maybe) "take your ball and go home". Maybe you don't know the expression, so I'll explain it.

It comes from backyard basketball when a player (usually a kid) gets fouled. gets all moody, and takes his ball home with him so no one else can play.

That's all I got.

I really, honestly, in all truth can't see how someone can't see what I posted as patronizing. In fact, most people in this thread saw it for what it was-- a simple question from a simple man.

I don't care how long this thread is here, I don't care how long you stay here, I don't care if you fly to the damn moon and build a base there, I don't even care if you burn my damn house down! All I wanted to do was ask a SIMPLE question to a few other people. For the love of everything I even started out the post with GENTLEMEN AND LADIES and then EXPLICITLY stated I WASN'T bashing.

If you can't tell, I'm a little peeved.

So, I tell you what. I apologize a lot for many different things. Sometimes I give too much money to a clerk at the store: I apologizes. I say something stupid to my wife: I apologize. I accidentally walk into my cat: I apologize.... to my cat! It's not even human, and I apologize!

So, now you know I have no problem, whatsoever, in apologizing. If I feel I am even the smallest bit in the wrong-- not by a lot, mind you; not even if it's a microscopic nano-inch-- I ALWAYS say I'm sorry. If there is an inclining of regret in my heart I ALWAYS apologize.

But if your expecting one I suggest you forget about. I did nothing wrong. So you can sit there with your arms crossed until the sun burns out, because it's not coming. Anyone who knows me knows I never get upset (quite frankly, I'm not even upset now. I'm more so frustrated)

In conclusion. I didn't mean anything offensive, I don't care if you thought it WAS offensive, because that was not my intention, and, if you expect an apology I suggest you listen to the immortal Fonzie and "sit on it!"!

Modifié par Fat Headed Wolf, 06 mai 2011 - 08:14 .

[Wittand25]

Ryzaki wrote...

Well the good thing about no new LIs is my Shepard will probably be able to talk to the new people without them trying to claw his pants off. That'llbe nice.

I seriously doubt that there will be no new LIs and if only for the reason that this would be the first time that BioWare would address the LI situation so long before the actual launch of the game.

Since, judging by the various previews, this round was a come to Bioware, see some footage and ask some questions, maybe play one level with a premade Shepard kind of preview event I doubt that that Bioware did bring romances up or that any question regarding them would get the reporter more than "We are not talking about them yet, but there will be consequences from your romantic past" as answer.

That kind of preview without the option to play the game by the reviewer is notoriously full of flaws ,this reviewer did not recognise Ashley for example, a German previewer has any enemy in screenshots labeled as reaper even if they are obviously human or the correspondent for several German mags misunderstood the DA team and believed Fenris to be a mage so that all German previews had him listed as mage for months.

[ElitePinecone]

@Wittand: It does seem a little odd.

I find it difficult to believe that Bioware wouldn't give new players a fresh choice of romances, given that the alternative would be establishing a connection to a ME/ME2 LI through a few seconds of comic 'catch-up' footage than having to pursue a heartfelt reunion in ME3 with them.