9243 réponses à ce sujet

[KawaiiKatie]

Blacklash93 wrote...

To say you won't like the game simply because it doesn't cater to you in one particular way shouldn't be a deal-breaker.

I find Bioware's excuses and double standards as laughable as the next guy, but I do like the series for what is other than that.

I didn't say that the game wouldn't be enjoyable--I said that I won't support it, or show my support by spending money on it.

And I don't find the double-stand "laughable." I mean, sure, the occasional joke about it makes me chuckle, but when you get down to it, the way the Mass Effect team has handled same-sex content isn't "laughable," it's offensive. And I won't support something I find offensive.

I have no doubt that ME3 will be entertaining and well-written and beautiful... and for some people, that's enough. But for me, the treatment of same-sex content in the Mass Effect series is so clumsy and off-putting that it will literally deter me from ME3. I will vote my disapproval the only way a consumer can vote: with my wallet.

[Centauri2002]

lolwut666 wrote...

I think they want to give all romances the same amount of "screen time".

A new romance in ME3 would only appear in ME3, while every other LI appeared in one or both of the previous installments, and were romanceable in one of them.

With ME3, all LIs will finish the trilogy with 2 romance scenes (except Liara, who will end with 3).

I can understand them not wanting to introduce new LIs in ME3. It's a conclusion, not a beginning. There's already some inbalance between the romances though so I'm not sure they'll even try to even them out at this point. As you pointed out, Liara has gotten more attention than other LIs. I don't see them skipping over her in ME3 though.

Part of me is glad there won't be any new ones so they can focus on the existings LIs.

[Blacklash93]

I enjoy Mass Effect's gameplay way more than that of Dragon Age, I'll be honest. Origins was too slow for my tastes and DA2 was just too... crappy.

When people say "Go play DA!" when the issue of s/s content gets brought up, it kind of frustrates me. Shepard is so basass and shooter gameplay is right up my alley, yet there's always that one niggle that keeps me from enjoying it to the fullest. It just doesn't feel complete to me for some reason. The game more than makes up for it in other areas, but it still bothers me a bit in a way I can't help.

When I realize that DA and ME are basically cousins, it's also frustrating to know that one refuses to give the option I want, while the other delivers it in spades. And it just so happens that I like the former more.

Too sum it up in a nutshell, Dragon Age spoiled me and now Mass Effect feels a little dry for me because of that. It's made even worse by the fact that they're from the same company.

P.S. (Though story-wise, DA>>>>>>>>>ME.)

Modifié par Blacklash93, 10 mai 2011 - 02:00 .

[lazuli]

lolwut666 wrote...

I think they want to give all romances the same amount of "screen time".

(Not my work.  Lifted from a comic.)

[ElitePinecone]

Siansonea II wrote...
This is the way I feel too. As much as I'm dedicated to fairness, inclusivity, and other such things, the truth is I'm going to buy ME3 no matter what hamhanded PR nightmare CHud and Ray Muzyka come up with to justify exclusion of m/m content. The truth is we'll never know the whole story.

I don't think it's the best idea to boycott the game just because they're so wrongheaded about this issue. We've already played through two games without this content, it seems rather late to boycott them now. Not to mention, I really dislike it when other groups threaten to not buy this or other games because of one thing or another, even if it's something I would also like to see in the game.

Pretty much this. One issue wouldn't derail the fun and enjoyment I get out of Bioware's games in general and Mass Effect in particular. To invest so much time and effort in two games and many, many playthroughs, only to abandon it because of one neglected feature, isn't something I'd consider. 

Not that I don't appreciate the sentiments of people who feel more strongly about this than I do, but 'boycotting' a fantastic game and the conclusion to a great series, in my view, would only make me miss out on something that is (hopefully) a great experience. 

I'll enjoy Mass Effect 3 (assuming it's, y'know, a good game) with or without same-sex romances - but their inclusion would only add to the awesomeness. 

Update: As I wrote that I just checked Twitter and Casey has responded to some more questions about romances:

• To a question on how romances would work in ME3: "For new players, some great intros to the love interests. For imported characters, a final resolution on all previous ones."
• James 'Sanders' is now James 'Vega'.

The first answer seems to confirm that there will be no 'new' romances in ME3, and might even indicate that no new romances are possible with 'old' characters. Not the best outcome. 

[GameBoyish]

lazuli wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

I think they want to give all romances the same amount of "screen time".

(Not my work.  Lifted from a comic.)

<_<
(credit for GIF goes to Darc Requiem)

[FataliTensei]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

To say you won't like the game simply because it doesn't cater to you in one particular way shouldn't be a deal-breaker.

I find Bioware's excuses and double standards as laughable as the next guy, but I do like the series for what is other than that.

I didn't say that the game wouldn't be enjoyable--I said that I won't support it, or show my support by spending money on it.

And I don't find the double-stand "laughable." I mean, sure, the occasional joke about it makes me chuckle, but when you get down to it, the way the Mass Effect team has handled same-sex content isn't "laughable," it's offensive. And I won't support something I find offensive.

I have no doubt that ME3 will be entertaining and well-written and beautiful... and for some people, that's enough. But for me, the treatment of same-sex content in the Mass Effect series is so clumsy and off-putting that it will literally deter me from ME3. I will vote my disapproval the only way a consumer can vote: with my wallet.

I get this so much, I'm getting ME3 because I want to finish out the series, but after I've beaten ME3 and there's no same sex romances in it (excluding Liara) I'm going to be done with Bioware games, my money will go elsewhere.<_<

[thedaigakuinsei]

See, what confuses me about Bioware is how tepid they are relative to other tech firms. Hell, Apple, Google, Yahoo, Twitter all came out against Prop 8 in California. It also seems a little silly because Bioware's parent corporation, EA, actively extols its pro-gay credentials:

https://jobs.ea.com/..._opportunities/

That giant equality sign should mean something.

Modifié par thedaigakuinsei, 10 mai 2011 - 01:24 .

[lazuli]

To be clear, Trivia, I hope that all of the love interests get their share of screen time in ME3. I will be surprised if they do, though.

[lolwut666]

ElitePinecone wrote...

• James 'Sanders' is now James 'Vega'.

wat

[lazuli]

lolwut666 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

• James 'Sanders' is now James 'Vega'.

wat

http://social.biowar...3/index/7345991

Modifié par lazuli, 10 mai 2011 - 03:20 .

[Wittand25]

FataliTensei wrote...
I get this so much, I'm getting ME3 because I want to finish out the series, but after I've beaten ME3 and there's no same sex romances in it (excluding Liara) I'm going to be done with Bioware games, my money will go elsewhere.

That is a little unfair. The DA team has been great in regards to s/s romances since the first game.

I won´t get ME3 unless s/s romances are included for both genders. And will be carefully checking out any future titles made by the same team before buying, but I won´t completely stop buying BioWare games.

[thedaigakuinsei]

DA is not substantially similar to ME. Not everyone who likes sci-fi likes fantasy.

[Wittand25]

thedaigakuinsei wrote...

DA is not substantially similar to ME. Not everyone who likes sci-fi likes fantasy.

True.
I am fully aware of the different setting and the different game-play of both franchises. 
I was merely pointing out that the issue does seem to be more with this particular team and not with BioWare in general.

[Cootie]

I would not support any team that presumes that I am of the consumer stereotype, with about the same amount of tolerance as a crab that's deathly allergic to, I dunno, the ocean.

It is insulting not only to me, but to any fan of the series. Science Fiction is supposed to reflect our own reality, offer criticism and force you to think outside of the box.
What ME is doing, in some cases, including this one, is to take some of the concepts of science fiction and just put them along the edges of the box, so that it's consumer-safe.

I am sorry, but despite the brilliant writing that has been done and played around with and as much as I enjoy the story so far, I will not purchase any product that outright calls me a homophobe through generalising.
(I have dismissed the "lack of resources"-claim, regarding ME2)

EDIT: That said, I still enjoy the Dragon Age franchise, and it is probably the best writing I've ever seen in an RPG.
Re-Edit: I'm a youngster hip brat with all o' dat fancy schmancy rap music and them torn jeans and all that jazz. I never experienced the glory that is Baldur's Gate fully, or any other game of the sort.
Don't judge me. D;

Modifié par Cootie, 10 mai 2011 - 04:31 .

[thedaigakuinsei]

Cootie, I think you're conceding an important premise to the anti-gays. The average consumer doesn't care if there is an option for s-s romance. It's a fringe.

Additionally, the people who say even having the dialog option makes Shepard bi/gay are making a really dumb argument. That's like saying Shepard is poly-species-sexual by having the option to romance Liara/Tali/Thane/Garrus/etc. Suppose Kaidan did have feelings for MaleShep, there should be an anti-gay option and a pro-gay option.

[tagoloan boy]

Your kidding yourself if you think the average consumer is not anti-gay. A lot of people have a natural disgust to that lifestyle. If anything those trying to push the gay option are more the fringe group you seem to dislike. Get over yourselves. Its not going to happen. This games appeal and recent change in the second game is aiming towards a more mainstream audience. Again, you got Dragon Age to fulfill whatever you seem to lack in your gaming experience.

[thedaigakuinsei]

www.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx 

Sorry man, the polling doesn't support your claim.  Most gamers are young people, and young people are even more laissez faire than the "average American" when it comes to gay rights.

[FataliTensei]

Wittand25 wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...
I get this so much, I'm getting ME3 because I want to finish out the series, but after I've beaten ME3 and there's no same sex romances in it (excluding Liara) I'm going to be done with Bioware games, my money will go elsewhere.

That is a little unfair. The DA team has been great in regards to s/s romances since the first game.

I won´t get ME3 unless s/s romances are included for both genders. And will be carefully checking out any future titles made by the same team before buying, but I won´t completely stop buying BioWare games.

I liked DA:O, and I liked the way they did S/S romances in DA2 but the game itself was entirely forgettable for me.

[Ryzaki]

lazuli wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

• James 'Sanders' is now James 'Vega'.

wat

http://social.biowar...3/index/7345991

..Namco's gonna sue for plagiarism. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 mai 2011 - 08:56 .

[Centauri2002]

tagoloan boy wrote...

Your kidding yourself if you think the average consumer is not anti-gay. A lot of people have a natural disgust to that lifestyle. If anything those trying to push the gay option are more the fringe group you seem to dislike. Get over yourselves. Its not going to happen. This games appeal and recent change in the second game is aiming towards a more mainstream audience. Again, you got Dragon Age to fulfill whatever you seem to lack in your gaming experience.

Dragon Age is a fantasy RPG. Mass Effect is a sci-fi action RPG. See the differences there? Right, good. 

Your reasoning seems to be that just because there are same sex options in one game, that should appease all those gay lovin' folks. They can all go there, right? Maybe if we contain them all in one place, they'll stay the hell away from the games I like! If they don't like fantasy? That's silly, there's gayness in it, how can they not like it!?

Seriously though, there's nothing wrong with asking for inclusivity in a broader range of games. It'll come eventually but there's no reason not to ask for it now.

I'm marvelling at the irony of "natural disgust".

Modifié par centauri2002, 10 mai 2011 - 10:44 .

[Siansonea]

tagoloan boy wrote...

Your kidding yourself if you think the average consumer is not anti-gay. A lot of people have a natural disgust to that lifestyle. If anything those trying to push the gay option are more the fringe group you seem to dislike. Get over yourselves. Its not going to happen. This games appeal and recent change in the second game is aiming towards a more mainstream audience. Again, you got Dragon Age to fulfill whatever you seem to lack in your gaming experience.

Let me guess, you're not old enough to buy the game for yourself, are you? The word "boy" in your username is a really big clue to your maturity level. Naturally, I've given your statement all of the consideration it deserves, and therefore my response to it is: 

[Centauri2002]

Nyoka wrote...

Hmm but previous games had teh Gay in them and didn't receive complaints, right? Was people angry at Jade Empire?

I don't recall what the reaction was to that at the time, but the same sex romances weren't handled in a very equal manner I thought anyway. Don't get me wrong, I loved romancing Sun Lian as Wu but I could see the differences. Not a single mention of love, for one. And I felt the dialogue skirted around some words or phrases at some points. 

Then again, in my first play through I completely missed the Sun Lian romance so Wu remained single. It wasn't until my second play through that I realised I could do it. Total facepalm moment. >.>