9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziggy]

Bill569 wrote...

Em23 wrote...
Ignoring your 'wrong but not bad' comment.... 
I don't see how, in all good conscience, bioware could even consider catering to the few people so homophobic that the mere knowledge there exists dlc in which a character is open to ss romance offends them that much that they wouldn't buy the game.

Then why there ins't a same-sex romance option in ME1 or ME2?

You have a point, what they're doing in me1 and me2 isn't much better.
From perhaps a slightly cynical perspective, it's because they think their target demographic finds homosexual males scary but lesbianism hot. They invented the Asari so they could have have the latter without the former by being able to claim (on a technicality) that there is no homosexuality in mass effect.

It's an insult to everyone.

That's why (amongst other reasons) this group was created.

Modifié par Em23, 12 mai 2011 - 01:09 .

[Centauri2002]

Bill569 wrote...

Then why there ins't a same-sex romance option in ME1 or ME2?

Why wasn't Tali or Garrus romanceable in ME1 then?

[Bill569]

Nyoka wrote...

Bill569 wrote...

So, if a person has some bad qualities in him that haven't got the chance to surface (no DLC) it doesn't mean that they don't exist. Under the right circumstances, in this example when a man is given power, regarding ME3 when you install the same-sex romance DLC, they will surface.

But being gay is not a bad quality, is it? Therefore this problem doesn't exist.

To avoid confusion, I don't believe that same-sex romance is a bad thing.

Perfect, then. Since it is not a bad thing, why not include it?

Because many people will not like it. I want to romance a straight character, ok? Not a homosexual one. And turning old straight characters into homosexuals is going to ****** off many people, including me. Adding NEW homosexual characters is not going to meet great opposition. Or it might meet, and Bioware will not add a same-sex romance option for ME3 at all.

[Centauri2002]

Bill569 wrote...

Because many people will not like it. I want to romance a straight character, ok? Not a homosexual one. And turning old straight characters into homosexuals is going to ****** off many people, including me. Adding NEW homosexual characters is not going to meet great opposition. Or it might meet, and Bioware will not add a same-sex romance option for ME3 at all.

I think you'll have a bit of difficulty romancing a homosexual female. So you've no problems there.

However, if you're talking about romancing a bisexual character, that's another matter. Besides, in your game, they can be straight. If they only romance your MaleShep and don't go after anyone else, what's the problem? 

[Bill569]

Em23 wrote...

Bill569 wrote...

Em23 wrote...
Ignoring your 'wrong but not bad' comment.... 
I don't see how, in all good conscience, bioware could even consider catering to the few people so homophobic that the mere knowledge there exists dlc in which a character is open to ss romance offends them that much that they wouldn't buy the game.

Then why there ins't a same-sex romance option in ME1 or ME2?

You have a point, what they're doing in me1 and me2 isn't much better.
From perhaps a slightly cynical perspective, it's because they think their target demographic finds homosexual males scary but lesbianism hot. They invented the Asari so they could have have the latter without the former by being able to claim (on a technicality) that there is no homosexuality in mass effect.

It's an insult to everyone.

That's why (amongst other reasons) this group was created.

Personally, I'm not perfectly comfortable with the whole asari thing either. And that is because the asari are feminine from all aspects. For the asari it is not homosexuality as they are mono-gendered, but for humans, since asari appear completely feminine, it is kinda like homosexuality.

[Saeran]

Bill569 wrote...

Personally, I'm not perfectly comfortable with the whole asari thing either. And that is because the asari are feminine from all aspects. For the asari it is not homosexuality as they are mono-gendered, but for humans, since asari appear completely feminine, it is kinda like homosexuality.

Mono-gender = 1 gender. That is it's meaning. Asari have 1 gender, that being female. Hence it is not "kinda". It definately is homosexuality.

[Bill569]

centauri2002 wrote...

Bill569 wrote...

Because many people will not like it. I want to romance a straight character, ok? Not a homosexual one. And turning old straight characters into homosexuals is going to ****** off many people, including me. Adding NEW homosexual characters is not going to meet great opposition. Or it might meet, and Bioware will not add a same-sex romance option for ME3 at all.

I think you'll have a bit of difficulty romancing a homosexual female. So you've no problems there.

However, if you're talking about romancing a bisexual character, that's another matter. Besides, in your game, they can be straight. If they only romance your MaleShep and don't go after anyone else, what's the problem? 

I'll just quote myself, as I have already expressed my opinion on this matter:

Anyway, think of  Abraham Lincoln's quote: Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

So, if a person has some bad qualities in him that haven't got the chance to surface (no DLC) it doesn't mean that they don't exist. Under the right circumstances, in this example when a man is given power, regarding ME3 when you install the same-sex romance DLC, they will surface.

ElitePinecone wrote...
Secondly, I'm struggling to work out how the option of a same-sex romance would affect the character in the slightest.

You're presumably playing as a maleShep romancing Tali, from your posts above. 

You'd *never* see the same-sex option unless you played as a female Shepard and specifically romanced the character, assuming the option existed. In the 'universe' of your maleShep playthrough, she's a quarian with a fetish for male humans (as odd as that is). In 'another' universe of another player's game, she might not romance anybody at all. In a third universe, she romances someone's femShep because they picked the option. 

Options don't become reality until someone choose them - the capacity to be something doesn't make it so, especially if you choose the opposite.

Because in all these three universes Tali was identical until she met Shepard. Then her actions were affected by Shepard's actions and thse three universes started differentiating. Also, Shepard's actions didn't change Tali's opinion on relationships. So, if Tali is open to same-sex romance option in one universe, she is open to same-sex romance in all universes.

Modifié par Bill569, 12 mai 2011 - 01:38 .

[lawp79]

The more I read this thread the more confused I am by some people objections and views.

[Bill569]

Saeran wrote...

Bill569 wrote...

Personally, I'm not perfectly comfortable with the whole asari thing either. And that is because the asari are feminine from all aspects. For the asari it is not homosexuality as they are mono-gendered, but for humans, since asari appear completely feminine, it is kinda like homosexuality.

Mono-gender = 1 gender. That is it's meaning. Asari have 1 gender, that being female. Hence it is not "kinda". It definately is homosexuality.

It is homosexuality for humans only. Asari do not have the notion of genders.

[Centauri2002]

Bill569 wrote...

Personally, I'm not perfectly comfortable with the whole asari thing either. And that is because the asari are feminine from all aspects. For the asari it is not homosexuality as they are mono-gendered, but for humans, since asari appear completely feminine, it is kinda like homosexuality.

Wrong. That is the definition of homosexual. Asari are an all-female race. Therefore they are of the same sex. I'm talking sex here, not gender. ****** means 'same', just so you know. If they spent epochs mating with only other asari... well, I'm sure you can make the connection. I hope so anyway.

So, the asari were homosexual before they joined the galactic community. Now I'm not happy with that but I'm not bleating about it.

[Saeran]

Someone needs to go find the picture from the codex that states that Asari are an all female race.

[Centauri2002]

Happy to oblige.

[Saeran]

Merci, mon ami... ma ami... whatever. I'm rubbish at French.

Modifié par Saeran, 12 mai 2011 - 01:52 .

[Bill569]

centauri2002 wrote...

Bill569 wrote...

Personally, I'm not perfectly comfortable with the whole asari thing either. And that is because the asari are feminine from all aspects. For the asari it is not homosexuality as they are mono-gendered, but for humans, since asari appear completely feminine, it is kinda like homosexuality.

Wrong. That is the definition of homosexual. Asari are an all-female race. Therefore they are of the same sex. I'm talking sex here, not gender. ****** means 'same', just so you know. If they spent epochs mating with only other asari... well, I'm sure you can make the connection. I hope so anyway.

So, the asari were homosexual before they joined the galactic community. Now I'm not happy with that but I'm not bleating about it.

The term homosexual does not apply to the asari for one simple reason: there is no distinction between homosexual and heterosexual, as asari are mono-gendered. Imagine this: in a parallel universe, on Earth the only animals that exist are humans. All other forms of life are plants. Therefore the word vegetarian has no meaning. The same applies to the asari. Also, gender and sex have the same meaning. And you don't have to tell me what ****** means. It comes from the word όμοιος in Greek, which is my language.

[ADLegend21]

Bill569 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Bill569 wrote...

Personally, I'm not perfectly comfortable with the whole asari thing either. And that is because the asari are feminine from all aspects. For the asari it is not homosexuality as they are mono-gendered, but for humans, since asari appear completely feminine, it is kinda like homosexuality.

Wrong. That is the definition of homosexual. Asari are an all-female race. Therefore they are of the same sex. I'm talking sex here, not gender. ****** means 'same', just so you know. If they spent epochs mating with only other asari... well, I'm sure you can make the connection. I hope so anyway.

So, the asari were homosexual before they joined the galactic community. Now I'm not happy with that but I'm not bleating about it.

The term homosexual does not apply to the asari for one simple reason: there is no distinction between homosexual and heterosexual, as asari are mono-gendered. Imagine this: in a parallel universe, on Earth the only animals that exist are humans. All other forms of life are plants. Therefore the word vegetarian has no meaning. The same applies to the asari. Also, gender and sex have the same meaning. And you don't have to tell me what ****** means. It comes from the word όμοιος in Greek, which is my language.

actually, in terms of the asari there's no such hing as Hetero sexuality because before meeting males of other species there were only females. Every relationship was F/F and there for same sex.

[Ziggy]

Bill569 wrote...
Because many people will not like it. I want to romance a straight character, ok? Not a homosexual one. And turning old straight characters into homosexuals is going to ****** off many people, including me. Adding NEWhomosexual characters is not going to meet great opposition. Or it might meet, and Bioware will not add a same-sex romance option for ME3 at all.

So there is no way a bisexual character could be included that you could tolerate because you think homosexuality "is wrong" so you don't want any hint of it in your game.

You are a perfect example of the kind of person David Gaider was referring to when he responded to someone complaining about ss in da2:

"You can write it off as "political correctness" if you wish, but the truth is that privilege always lies with the majority. They're so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance. They don't see anything wrong with having things set up to suit them, what's everyone's fuss all about? That's the way it should be, any everyone else should be used to not getting what they want."

Your stance is extremely selfish, intolerant and unfair. If you can't see that, or (worse) can, but think it's acceptable, then I want nothing more to do with you.

[Centauri2002]

Bill569 wrote...

The term homosexual does not apply to the asari for one simple reason: there is no distinction between homosexual and heterosexual, as asari are mono-gendered. Imagine this: in a parallel universe, on Earth the only animals that exist are humans. All other forms of life are plants. Therefore the word vegetarian has no meaning. The same applies to the asari. Also, gender and sex have the same meaning. And you don't have to tell me what ****** means. It comes from the word όμοιος in Greek, which is my language.

Just because the asari have no call to use it does not mean it does not apply. They are of the same sex still, because they are an all-female race. 

The issue here is with our perceptions of them, not with how they perceive them to be. You can't use the way they view themselves in your argument because you are arguing your own point of view. For instance, you wouldn't have a problem romancing anyone who was homosexual, bisexual or heterosexual if you shared their views so you can't pick and choose which of their beliefs to use in your own argument.

They were created by humans so human perception is absolutely important here. They were imagined through it. 

And how was I to know you were Greek? I'm not going to assume someone knows something, especially when they ignore the meaning of said word. 

Modifié par centauri2002, 12 mai 2011 - 01:59 .

[ADLegend21]

Bill569 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Bill569 wrote...

Personally, I'm not perfectly comfortable with the whole asari thing either. And that is because the asari are feminine from all aspects. For the asari it is not homosexuality as they are mono-gendered, but for humans, since asari appear completely feminine, it is kinda like homosexuality.

Wrong. That is the definition of homosexual. Asari are an all-female race. Therefore they are of the same sex. I'm talking sex here, not gender. ****** means 'same', just so you know. If they spent epochs mating with only other asari... well, I'm sure you can make the connection. I hope so anyway.

So, the asari were homosexual before they joined the galactic community. Now I'm not happy with that but I'm not bleating about it.

The term homosexual does not apply to the asari for one simple reason: there is no distinction between homosexual and heterosexual, as asari are mono-gendered. Imagine this: in a parallel universe, on Earth the only animals that exist are humans. All other forms of life are plants. Therefore the word vegetarian has no meaning. The same applies to the asari. Also, gender and sex have the same meaning. And you don't have to tell me what ****** means. It comes from the word όμοιος in Greek, which is my language.

actually, in terms of the asari there's no such hing as Hetero sexuality because before meeting males of other species there were only females. Every relationship was F/F and there for same sex.

[Bill569]

centauri2002 wrote...

Happy to oblige.

Quoting wikipedia: "Asexuality (sometimes referred to as nonsexuality[1][2][3]), in its broadest sense, is the lack of sexual attraction[4][5] and/or the lack of interest in and desire for sex." Asari do have a desire for sex. Also "Asexual reproduction is a mode of reproduction by which offspring arise from a single parent, and inherit the genes of that parent only, it is reproduction which does not involve meiosis, ploidy reduction, or fertilization." For an asari to get preagnant a partner is needed. So that is why they are not asexual.

Also, they are an all-female race from a human viewpoint. Like in my previous example, From a human in our unicerse, the humans in that parallel universe are all vegetarians. But for the humans in that parallel universe, vegetarian has no meaning. Meat is just a new kind of food for them.

[Centauri2002]

Bill569 wrote...

Also, they are an all-female race from a human viewpoint. Like in my previous example, From a human in our unicerse, the humans in that parallel universe are all vegetarians. But for the humans in that parallel universe, vegetarian has no meaning. Meat is just a new kind of food for them.

So by your logic... all MaleSheps romancing Liara are not engaged in a heterosexual relationship either. They're not banging a female. If anything bar heterosexuality is wrong, Liara shouldn't be romanceable at all.

If that is the case, BioWare have already included something "wrong" in their game and you should just return your copies now.

[Russalka]

To female Shepard, it is a homosexual relationship. That is all that matters in this topic, case and argument.

Modifié par Russalka, 12 mai 2011 - 02:07 .

[Bill569]

centauri2002 wrote...

Bill569 wrote...

Also, they are an all-female race from a human viewpoint. Like in my previous example, From a human in our unicerse, the humans in that parallel universe are all vegetarians. But for the humans in that parallel universe, vegetarian has no meaning. Meat is just a new kind of food for them.

So by your logic... all MaleSheps romancing Liara are not engaged in a heterosexual relationship either. They're not banging a female. If anything bar heterosexuality is wrong, Liara shouldn't be romanceable at all.

If that is the case, BioWare have already included something "wrong" in their game and you should just return your copies now.

From Liara's viewpoint, all relationships are the same. From male Shepard's viewpoint, who is a human therefore he perceives asari as females it is a heterosexual relationship.

[Centauri2002]

Bill569 wrote...

From Liara's viewpoint, all relationships are the same. From male Shepard's viewpoint, who is a human therefore he perceives asari as females it is a heterosexual relationship.

And from FemShep's viewpoint it's a homosexual relationship. So same sex romances are already in your game. Since you're human (I'm making an assumption here, I know), you should view it in the same way.