9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Sahariel wrote...
There is no issue whatsoever with the comparison, I simply used it to shoot down when someone erroneously stated

"Asari can get pregnant and have babies, therefore they are female aliens."

Seahorses can get pregnant but they are not necessarily female, I am well aware of the differences between Asari and Seahorses I was simply challenging assumptions someone else made calling someone else an idiot. If in the wonderous world of real life a male can be pregnant, what can happen in a fictional universe can be even more diverse.

I swear to god if there's Mpreg in ME I'm blaming you for it. <_< *shudders* I hate human mpreg. Mostly because it never makes any sense. 

I consider Asari female because they have eggs. They give birth in a similar way to human females (no reason for the belly button otherwise). They share a female human's body shape. THey're called female in the codex, they refer to each other in female terms. 

The only way they could be anymore female is if Liara stood infront of the camera butt naked and showed off her bits. And we already got side boob in ME1. 

I can't recall any male species (that weren't obese) that had breasts similar to the Asari's. Not without having a disorder. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 mai 2011 - 12:43 .

[Centauri2002]

Ryzaki wrote...

I swear to god if there's Mpreg in ME I'm blaming you for it. <_< *shudders* I hate human mpreg. Mostly because it never makes any sense. 

I consider Asari female because they have eggs. They give birth in a similar way to human females (no reason for the belly button otherwise). They share a female human's body shape. THey're called female in the codex, they refer to each other in female terms. 

The only way they could be anymore female is if Liara stood infront of the camera butt naked and showed off her bits. 

I wouldn't say no to that... 

But, yes, I agree with all your points!

Modifié par centauri2002, 13 mai 2011 - 12:43 .

[Blacklash93]

Sahariel wrote...

As to actually including m/m content for ME3 lets hope they do, but if in the worst case they don't it is still likely to be a benchmark for storytelling in gaming, and I'm sure most here straight, gay or bi will enjoy it.

That's the thing. We want to be part of that...

[KawaiiKatie]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Sahariel wrote...

As to actually including m/m content for ME3 lets hope they do, but if in the worst case they don't it is still likely to be a benchmark for storytelling in gaming, and I'm sure most here straight, gay or bi will enjoy it.

That's the thing. We want to be part of that...

Hear, hear!

My greatest hope is that Mass Effect 3 will be a benchmark in gaming on terms of story telling, graphics, writing, and equality for all.

[Jademoon121]

Sahariel wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

Why can't Bioware just tell us why manShep can't be with other men? If it's just about money and/or development time, I can take and understand that. Romances aren't high on the list of priorities; but pulling all these excuses like "Shepherd is an established character" despite the fact that you can choose Shep's gender, childhood, morals, beliefs, looks, etc. only hurts their case. What are they so hesitant?

Edit! I really shouldn't post after eating....

Ok if in Bioware's view manShep's orientation is cast in stone, then that is I am afraid that. That doesn't however mean that Shephard has to be straight in your mind. After all in this case with interactive fiction you are part of the creative process, so if you want manShep to be gay, go right ahead.

In Blade Runner there is the very interesting question of wether Deckard is a replicant, with Ridley Scott interpreting it one way, Harrison Ford another and the audience is pretty much clear to interpret the character as it makes sense to them. This is even more significant with video games, he is your Shep interpret him exactly how you want to.

As to actually including m/m content for ME3 lets hope they do, but if in the worst case they don't it is still likely to be a benchmark for storytelling in gaming, and I'm sure most here straight, gay or bi will enjoy it.

That's nonsensical though. Yes, I can imagine my Shep to be gay(which I do), but it doesn't make sense for my Femshep to be able to act out her feelings through playing, while Judas can't. The most I can do is just turn down flirting and hit-ons. There's no reason or logic to this.
I agree with the rest though, it'll be a great game regardless, but this double standard is killing me.

[Sahariel]

Ok looks like I'm living to regret the seahorse thing, I brough up seahorses simply in response to someone saying Asari get pregnant therefore they are female. It was only in response to that. I think the safest way of defining Asari is that they are are a monogendered feminine alien species.

They are monogendered as they don't have two genders in their species, however they identify as feminine as they have women's voices, figures and conform to feminine archetypes. To say nothing of the fact they use terms culturally that identify as female, elders are matriarch for example.

I think that where people are getting confused is possibly through the act of sex itself. Asari do not reproduce like other species, but through a connection of their nervous system to that of a potential mate's. Without putting too fine a point on it, when we have the artful fade to black scenes with Liara and or the consort, I'm not entirely sure that a sexual encounter as humans would understand it actually takes place. It is certainly as intimate, although given that Liara does not get pregnant after ME1 one can assume there is an Asari equivilant of safe sex. It is also possible one would assume for an Asari to engage in other acts of physicality intimacy that humans would understand (although wether they would is unkown), so this further confuses the issue.

Where I think people are coming from on this board is that because Asari are feminine, they must therefore only attract those people who would be attracted to females. This I do not think is the case in the lore, but the fact remains is that an attractive Asari is going to attract females from other species who are themselves attracted to their own sex. It maybe that when one has a physical encounter with an Asari it transcends tradtional notions of sex anyway, so whatever preference an individual has beforehand becomes a moot point.

To sum up, I can certainly see that a femShep/Liara romance ticks the boxes of a f/f relationship, there is attraction, build up, physical intimacy, and a demonstrably identifiable feminine partner in the equation so in that I can certainly see why proponents of m/m relationships feel left out. However I think the specifics of Asari biology and mating gives more than enough leeway to Bioware to conclude that a femShep/Liara romance contains complexities that mean it isn't simply the same as a human/human romance.

[Centauri2002]

I think a lot of the confusion comes from the fact that they're called "mono-gendered" when they are, in fact, mono-sexed. Gender doesn't really play a part in their race so its only use is for how humans view them.

Modifié par centauri2002, 13 mai 2011 - 01:26 .

[Blacklash93]

Asari are clearly called female in the codex. Monogender means "one gender" and that gender happens to be female.

And the melding does involve physical intamacy in the sex scene. You would have to be attracted to females to be attracted to the Asari. Femshep can even take offense when propositioned by Liara for exactly that reason.

It's undeniably lesbian titillation, however. No matter how you put it.

Aaaand... there's still Kelly.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 13 mai 2011 - 01:31 .

[jlb524]

Sahariel wrote...

To sum up, I can certainly see that a femShep/Liara romance ticks the boxes of a f/f relationship, there is attraction, build up, physical intimacy, and a demonstrably identifiable feminine partner in the equation so in that I can certainly see why proponents of m/m relationships feel left out. However I think the specifics of Asari biology and mating gives more than enough leeway to Bioware to conclude that a femShep/Liara romance contains complexities that mean it isn't simply the same as a human/human romance.

It isn't the same as a human/human romance, but neither is the Shepard/Garrus or Shepard/Tali or Shepard/Thane romance.  I'm pretty sure the majority feel those are heterosexual romances.  If not, then it should be okay to make them all open to some same-sex lovin while keeping Shepard 'heterosexual'

The thing is, Female Shepard (as well as Male Shepard) can certainly be roleplayed as a homosexual but only Female Shepard can ever act on it with Liara (whatever you want to call it, a straight female Shepard ain't going for her) and Kelly.

[Sahariel]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Sahariel wrote...

As to actually including m/m content for ME3 lets hope they do, but if in the worst case they don't it is still likely to be a benchmark for storytelling in gaming, and I'm sure most here straight, gay or bi will enjoy it.

That's the thing. We want to be part of that...

Ummm having a romance is a sub-plot within the game, and not even the main plot at that. The rest of the game will be present and correct for you to enjoy, so "you" will very much be a part of it. Speaking as someone who romanced Ashley in ME1 but didn't romance anyone in ME2, I will concede that I very much enjoyed what the romance brought to ME1 in terms of story, but having not engaged it in ME2 I didn't feel any the less involved in the story for not picking to romance Miranda, Jack or Tali.

I would very much like to see all genders and orientations catered for in rpg romance plots, but it isn't the be all and end all of the story. You WILL be part of that.

[Centauri2002]

@Sahariel: I think the comment was in reference to setting a benchmark for inclusiveness as well as the other features of ME3.

[Blacklash93]

It was.

[Sahariel]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Asari are clearly called female in the codex. Monogender means "one gender" and that gender happens to be female.

And the melding does involve physical intamacy in the sex scene. You would have to be attracted to females to be attracted to the Asari. Femshep can even take offense when propositioned by Liara for exactly that reason.

It's undeniably lesbian titillation, however. No matter how you put it.

Aaaand... there's still Kelly.

Well strictly speaking Asari are asexual, as they can both contribute genetic material to make a child (male) and can provide the egg for fertilization (female). They are closer to trees in this respect.

At no point did I say the melding didn't involve acts of physical intimacy. Go back and re-read my post.

What is titilating for you maybe erotic and artistic to someone else. Your point of view is not the only one.

And Kelly relates to Asari biology how exactly?

[Sahariel]

You highlighted the part in my post about setting a benchmark in storytelling, and say:

"That's the thing. We want to be part of that... http://social.biowar...ticons/sad.png"

So I think you can understand my confusion in thinking you were responding to highlighted part of my post.

In response to what you actually meant, of course I want you to feel included.

[Blacklash93]

Sahariel wrote...

Well strictly speaking Asari are asexual, as they can both contribute genetic material to make a child (male) and can provide the egg for fertilization (female). They are closer to trees in this respect.

At no point did I say the melding didn't involve acts of physical intimacy. Go back and re-read my post.

What is titilating for you maybe erotic and artistic to someone else. Your point of view is not the only one.

And Kelly relates to Asari biology how exactly?

Just pointing out that there is still a f/f relationship even without Liara. And yes, the femshep/Liara relationship is meant to be erotic lesbian material to the masses. Common sense dictates that.

The codex also specifically states that Asari are not asexual.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 13 mai 2011 - 02:13 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Didn't the Eternity bartender say she tried having her own child? She was both mom and dad with that one and it didn't work out?

[ElitePinecone]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Didn't the Eternity bartender say she tried having her own child? She was both mom and dad with that one and it didn't work out?

She 'fathered' a child with another pureblood asari, but the mother left and she lost track of the child.

it was the relationship that didn't work out... 

Edit: That looks confusing. The bartender wasn't pureblood (she had a krogan father), but her partner was. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 13 mai 2011 - 04:09 .

[Cootie]

It doesn't exactly look promising.

[ElitePinecone]

Cootie wrote...

It doesn't exactly look promising.

On what basis? I'm holding out hope 

[Cootie]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Cootie wrote...

It doesn't exactly look promising.

On what basis? I'm holding out hope 

Blah, fine!
This thread was much more fun when I was hopeful!

High Five of Hope, anyone? O.o

[Darkhour]

Midey wrote...

So we are not getting S/S romances in ME3?

They want to reach a broader audience.  Nobody wants man on man buttsex in their Battlefield or Mass Effect 3.  DA2 was enough gay for the next decade. The ME IP doesn't want to become "that gay shooter".

[HolyMoogle]

Darkhour wrote...

Midey wrote...

So we are not getting S/S romances in ME3?

They want to reach a broader audience.  Nobody wants man on man buttsex in their Battlefield or Mass Effect 3.  DA2 was enough gay for the next decade. The ME IP doesn't want to become "that gay shooter".

Well goodness, you certainly sound like a broad audience! Kinda like how nobody enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins for being that gay RPG, or how nobody liked The Sims for being that gay simulation, or how nobody liked Fable for being that gay RPG/simulation, right?

Modifié par HolyMoogle, 13 mai 2011 - 02:06 .

[Russalka]

Nothing to see here. Just ignore it.