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[Centauri2002]

Ghost Warrior wrote...
You are partially right.
But Tali and Garrus had no interest in any Shepard during ME1,and then in ME2 realize their feelings for opposite-sex Shepard. I think that proves that they are not bisexual,because if they are,why don't they try something with same-sex Shep. It's still the same charismatic,powerful person,just different sex.

Same goes for ME2 characters. If they were bisexual they should discover the same feelings,regardless of Shepard's sex.

You just handed us the debate, thank you.

If Tali and Garrus didn't feel attraction for Shepard in ME1 but realised it in ME2, there's nothing stopping someone like Kaiden recognising his attraction for MaleShep in ME3 now, is there?

[Siansonea]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...



Why did it take so long for Garrus and Tali to say the want Shepard's levo-amino-acid booty? Yeah, crusty aliens wanting Shep's love is perfectly believable, but someone taking a little longer to decide that they want same-sex Shepard's lovin' is soooooo game breaking.<_<

You are partially right.
But Tali and Garrus had no interest in any Shepard during ME1,and then in ME2 realize their feelings for opposite-sex Shepard. I think that proves that they are not bisexual,because if they were,why don't they try something with same-sex Shep. It's still the same charismatic,powerful person,just different sex.

Same goes for ME2 characters. If they were bisexual they should discover the same feelings,regardless of Shepard's sex.

Well, MaleShepard didn't pursue the topic with Garrus, and FemShep didn't press the matter with Tali. Something tells me either of them would have gone for it. After, all, they've already crossed the species divide, what difference does the gender of an alien make? They're still an alien. It cracks me up that xenosexuality is treated as something perfectly natural, but homosexuality, something that actually IS perfectly natural, is treated like a story-breaking implausibility.

[Ghost Warrior]

centauri2002 wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...
You are partially right.
But Tali and Garrus had no interest in any Shepard during ME1,and then in ME2 realize their feelings for opposite-sex Shepard. I think that proves that they are not bisexual,because if they are,why don't they try something with same-sex Shep. It's still the same charismatic,powerful person,just different sex.

Same goes for ME2 characters. If they were bisexual they should discover the same feelings,regardless of Shepard's sex.

You just handed us the debate, thank you.

If Tali and Garrus didn't feel attraction for Shepard in ME1 but realised it in ME2, there's nothing stopping someone like Kaiden recognising his attraction for MaleShep in ME3 now, is there?

You completely missed the point. You can choose your Shepard's sex,appearance and morality but all Shepards out there have something in common - strength,charisma,courage. That's what makes certain character fall in love with Shepard.
And Kaiden can fall in love in Fem Shep,but not in male one,even though they can have completely same personality. That makes him straight.

So it's not same.Garrus/Tali have no feelings for any Shepard in ME1,but Kaidan does,only for Fem Shep.

[Mrxknown]

I would like this to be left to the player's choice and not the developer's. I want control over my Shepard.

As far as worldviews, he/she subscribes to anything that helps accomplish the mission. Whether it's renegade or paragon. Neither of those choices are homophobic.

[Ryzaki]

And this folks is why I want a new s/s LI.

Just to avoid retcon accusations.

Please let that no new LIs tripe be just that. Tripe.

[Centauri2002]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

You completely missed the point. You can choose your Shepard's sex,appearance and morality but all Shepards out there have something in common - strength,charisma,courage. That's what makes certain character fall in love with Shepard.
And Kaiden can fall in love in Fem Shep,but not in male one,even though they can have completely same personality. That makes him straight.

So it's not same.Garrus/Tali have no feelings for any Shepard in ME1,but Kaidan does,only for Fem Shep.

No, you get to decide your Shepard's personality traits too. In one game you can be a stalwart goody two-shoes, who is endlessly ideallistic, in another play through you can be ruthless and jaded, sacrificing others for your mission.

How are those two the same person?

I think you need to think about this a bit more.

Modifié par centauri2002, 14 mai 2011 - 04:16 .

[lovgreno]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

So it's not same.Garrus/Tali have no feelings for any Shepard in ME1,but Kaidan does,only for Fem Shep.

No feelings that shows openly at least. It could be kind of like how it was for Tali. Some may call it a retcon but it's still up to the writers how they want Kaidan to act in ME3. If they say something is possible it is, simple as that.

[Ghost Warrior]

Siansonea II wrote...


Well, MaleShepard didn't pursue the topic with Garrus, and FemShep didn't press the matter with Tali. Something tells me either of them would have gone for it. After, all, they've already crossed the species divide, what difference does the gender of an alien make? They're still an alien. It cracks me up that xenosexuality is treated as something perfectly natural, but homosexuality, something that actually IS perfectly natural, is treated like a story-breaking implausibility.

Okay,but why wasn't Shepard able to pursue same-sex romances then? Maybe because he isn't bisexual?
And about people being more acceptable of xenosexuality than homosexuality,I already said that I think it's because it's imposible to do that in real life,since aliens don't exist.

[BrandNewMan]

I can't even imagine what sex with a Turian is like...

I'm not xenophobic though. I support inter-intelligent-species marriage.

[Ghost Warrior]

centauri2002 wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

You completely missed the point. You can choose your Shepard's sex,appearance and morality but all Shepards out there have something in common - strength,charisma,courage. That's what makes certain character fall in love with Shepard.
And Kaiden can fall in love in Fem Shep,but not in male one,even though they can have completely same personality. That makes him straight.

So it's not same.Garrus/Tali have no feelings for any Shepard in ME1,but Kaidan does,only for Fem Shep.

No, you get to decide your Shepard's personality traits too. In one game you can be a stalwart goody two-shoes, who is endlessly ideallistic, in another play through you can be ruthless and jaded, sacrificing others for your mission.

How are those two the same person?

I think you need to think about this a bit more.

Read my post again,because you obviously didn't first time.

You completely missed the point. You can choose your Shepard's
sex,appearance and morality but all Shepards out there have something in
common - strength,charisma,courage. That's what makes certain character
fall in love with Shepard.
And Kaiden can fall in love in Fem
Shep,but not in male one,even though they can have completely same
personality. That makes him straight

[BrandNewMan]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...


Well, MaleShepard didn't pursue the topic with Garrus, and FemShep didn't press the matter with Tali. Something tells me either of them would have gone for it. After, all, they've already crossed the species divide, what difference does the gender of an alien make? They're still an alien. It cracks me up that xenosexuality is treated as something perfectly natural, but homosexuality, something that actually IS perfectly natural, is treated like a story-breaking implausibility.

Okay,but why wasn't Shepard able to pursue same-sex romances then? Maybe because he isn't bisexual?
And about people being more acceptable of xenosexuality than homosexuality,I already said that I think it's because it's imposible to do that in real life,since aliens don't exist.

An easy explanation Bioware could give is that they both assumed each other was straight.

[Centauri2002]

Ghost Warrior wrote...
Read my post again,because you obviously didn't first time.

You completely missed the point. You can choose your Shepard's
sex,appearance and morality but all Shepards out there have something in
common - strength,charisma,courage. That's what makes certain character
fall in love with Shepard.
And Kaiden can fall in love in Fem
Shep,but not in male one,even though they can have completely same
personality. That makes him straight

Then you simply don't know the difference between personality and morality. You can choose morality too, but also the kind of dialogue Shepard says. Those choices are invariably guided by personality. The personality you imagine for your Shepard.

And you don't get to decide why Liara is attracted to my Shepard. She liked her as much for her compassion and humour as she did for her courage.

[Ghost Warrior]

[quote]BrandNewMan wrote...


[/quote]

An easy explanation Bioware could give is that they both assumed each other was straight.

[/quote]
Shepard goes after what he wants.He wouldn't be afraid to ask,especially when he knows that they all might as well be dead soon (Suicide mission).

[Centauri2002]

@Ghost Warrior: You're assuming the way you play your Shepard is the way everyone plays theirs. Shepard can be a forward and ruthless soldier but quite vulnerable when it comes to matters of the heart.

[Siansonea]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...


Well, MaleShepard didn't pursue the topic with Garrus, and FemShep didn't press the matter with Tali. Something tells me either of them would have gone for it. After, all, they've already crossed the species divide, what difference does the gender of an alien make? They're still an alien. It cracks me up that xenosexuality is treated as something perfectly natural, but homosexuality, something that actually IS perfectly natural, is treated like a story-breaking implausibility.

Okay,but why wasn't Shepard able to pursue same-sex romances then? Maybe because he isn't bisexual?

Maybe. And maybe NOT.
Maybe ManShep heard all that talk about Rahna from Kaidan and assumed Kaidan wasn't into dudes, so he didn't flirt with Kaidan the way FemShep does. Maybe ManShep wasn't interested in Kaidan at first because he was a junior officer. Maybe FemShep wasn't interested in Ashley for some other reason. Maybe is a sword that cuts any way you want it to, so if we want to make a definitive argument, maybe we should avoid the use of the word maybe.

And about people being more acceptable of xenosexuality than homosexuality,I already said that I think it's because it's imposible to do that in real life,since aliens don't exist.

Oh, well, I suppose that makes it okay then? It's okay to be blatantly homophobic in a game because homosexuality actually exists? It's okay to completely ignore the Logic Fail of interspecies sex with dextro-chiral aliens because "it can't happen in real life? I think that's a copout, personally.

[ElitePinecone]

We're getting into supposition and speculation here. With all due respect, nobody 'knows' Shepard's personality.

Ghost: How about new characters? They aren't bound by the logic of continuity, even assuming this argument is valid.

[Ryzaki]

centauri2002 wrote...

@Ghost Warrior: You're assuming the way you play your Shepard is the way everyone plays theirs. Shepard can be a forward and ruthless soldier but quite vulnerable when it comes to matters of the heart.

And emo as all hell because his husband died because of him. 

[Saeran]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...


Well, MaleShepard didn't pursue the topic with Garrus, and FemShep didn't press the matter with Tali. Something tells me either of them would have gone for it. After, all, they've already crossed the species divide, what difference does the gender of an alien make? They're still an alien. It cracks me up that xenosexuality is treated as something perfectly natural, but homosexuality, something that actually IS perfectly natural, is treated like a story-breaking implausibility.

Okay,but why wasn't Shepard able to pursue same-sex romances then? Maybe because he isn't bisexual?
And about people being more acceptable of xenosexuality than homosexuality,I already said that I think it's because it's imposible to do that in real life,since aliens don't exist.

My Shepard is gay bro. Not having a homosexual relationship does not, a heterosexual, make him.

[Ghost Warrior]

centauri2002 wrote...

Then you simply don't know the difference between personality and morality. You can choose morality too, but also the kind of dialogue Shepard says. Those choices are invariably guided by personality. The personality you imagine for your Shepard.

And you don't get to decide why Liara is attracted to my Shepard. She liked her as much for her compassion and humour as she did for her courage.

You don't get it,do you?
Let me put it this way:

Create 2 Shepards,one female,other male. Choose same class,same background and make all same decisions and dialogue options..Every single one. Now the only difference between those two is sex. But still,Kaidan (for example) will only fall for Fem Shep,although male Shep has completely same personality.

[Ghost Warrior]

Siansonea II wrote...


Oh, well, I suppose that makes it okay then? It's okay to be blatantly homophobic in a game because homosexuality actually exists? It's okay to completely ignore the Logic Fail of interspecies sex with dextro-chiral aliens because "it can't happen in real life? I think that's a copout, personally.

Maybe. But it's just the way people think.

[Centauri2002]

Ryzaki wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

@Ghost Warrior: You're assuming the way you play your Shepard is the way everyone plays theirs. Shepard can be a forward and ruthless soldier but quite vulnerable when it comes to matters of the heart.

And emo as all hell because his husband died because of him. 

Aye, see there's a great example of how one Shepard can be so different from the next. It's a good explanation for a Shepard flying solo for the entirety of the trilogy too.

Or can this be explained by his heterosexuality being so overwhelming that he wanted to have all the females in the squad and decided to save the drama by staying single? <_<

[BrandNewMan]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

An easy explanation Bioware could give is that they both assumed each other was straight.

Shepard goes after what he wants.He wouldn't be afraid to ask,especially when he knows that they all might as well be dead soon (Suicide mission).

Okay, I chuckled at the thought of Shepard hitting on every guy he wants, even ones he assumes is straight. He knows what he wants, and isn't afraid to ask!

"Wanna sex me up? We might die soon. Yeah, I know you're married. She can join."

[Siansonea]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...


Oh, well, I suppose that makes it okay then? It's okay to be blatantly homophobic in a game because homosexuality actually exists? It's okay to completely ignore the Logic Fail of interspecies sex with dextro-chiral aliens because "it can't happen in real life? I think that's a copout, personally.

Maybe. But it's just the way people think.

So we should shoot for the lowest-common-denominator, eh? Aim low? Funny how you didn't address anything I said above that paragraph in my original post...

[Ghost Warrior]

ElitePinecone wrote...



Ghost: How about new characters? They aren't bound by the logic of continuity, even assuming this argument is valid.

I am fine with BioWare adding new gay characters,but that's unlikely since Casey said there will be no new LIs.
Sure,things change,but this one is unlikely to.

[Siansonea]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Then you simply don't know the difference between personality and morality. You can choose morality too, but also the kind of dialogue Shepard says. Those choices are invariably guided by personality. The personality you imagine for your Shepard.

And you don't get to decide why Liara is attracted to my Shepard. She liked her as much for her compassion and humour as she did for her courage.

You don't get it,do you?
Let me put it this way:

Create 2 Shepards,one female,other male. Choose same class,same background and make all same decisions and dialogue options..Every single one. Now the only difference between those two is sex. But still,Kaidan (for example) will only fall for Fem Shep,although male Shep has completely same personality.

Except, you know, the only reason FemShep can get anywhere with Kaidan is because SHE takes the lead and pursues HIM. ManShep doesn't, for whatever reason, that maybe could be this and maybe could be that.