9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Centauri2002]

Ghost Warrior wrote...
You don't get it,do you?
Let me put it this way:

Create 2 Shepards,one female,other male. Choose same class,same background and make all same decisions and dialogue options..Every single one. Now the only difference between those two is sex. But still,Kaidan (for example) will only fall for Fem Shep,although male Shep has completely same personality.

No, I get it. You don't actually role play your characters. But this is a role playing game and a great number of us do. Role playing means we like to construct backgrounds and personalities for our characters.

In your example, the male earthborn, sole survivor soldier could be mentally scarred by both his upbringing and his Alliance experiences and so he feels he can never trust anyone. So he doesn't romance anyone. Because he doesn't romance anyone, you could interpret that as none of the available LIs finding him attractive. Or it could be that he just wasn't ready for love.

The female earthborn, sole survivor soldier could be strengthened by her ordeals and try to find comfort wherever she could find it, romancing both Liara and Thane. Thane could understand her brushes with death, whereas she finds Liara's compassion comforting. Now, Liara didn't romance the MaleShep but she romances the FemShep. Does that mean she's a lesbian?

Everything bar the romances are played in the same way in these two games. Decisions, paragon/renegade choices, etc. It's the personalities and player-constructed backgrounds that are different.

Modifié par centauri2002, 14 mai 2011 - 04:39 .

[Ghost Warrior]

BrandNewMan wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

An easy explanation Bioware could give is that they both assumed each other was straight.

Shepard goes after what he wants.He wouldn't be afraid to ask,especially when he knows that they all might as well be dead soon (Suicide mission).

Okay, I chuckled at the thought of Shepard hitting on every guy he wants, even ones he assumes is straight. He knows what he wants, and isn't afraid to ask!

"Wanna sex me up? We might die soon. Yeah, I know you're married. She can join."

I gotta admit that made me laugh. No,I wasn't thinking that extreme,but basically yeah.
If Shepard is interested in someone,he/she has no reason not to express it,unless the person he wants is already taken.

[Siansonea]

And who knows, MAYBE the reason Kaidan is such a tough nut to crack for FemShep is because he favors men for the most part, but is open to women under some circumstances. If we're going to play the maybe game, we can all play.

[Ryzaki]

centauri2002 wrote...
Aye, see there's a great example of how one Shepard can be so different from the next. It's a good explanation for a Shepard flying solo for the entirety of the trilogy too.

Or can this be explained by his heterosexuality being so overwhelming that he wanted to have all the females in the squad and decided to save the drama by staying single? <_<

That's why I made the background sadly. Luckily it grew on me and Yurel's now my canon Shepard. 

Hah. Heterosexuality overwhelming? I think not. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 mai 2011 - 04:42 .

[Ghost Warrior]

@Siansonea II
@centauri2002

But don't you see what you are doing? Throughout roleplaying,you make up reasons for why didn't Shepard try to pursue same-sex romances. That's no reason.

Roleplaying is fun,but the fact is that if this is an RPG,then you should have the option of asking a certain character whether he has feelings for Shep or something along those lines. What will that character respond,it's up to BioWare because they create NPC-s. Players should be the ones who create their Shepard.

Modifié par Ghost Warrior, 14 mai 2011 - 04:48 .

[Ryzaki]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

@Siansonea II
@centauri2002

But don't you see what you are doing? Throughout roleplaying,you make up reasons for why didn't Shepard try to pursue same-sex romances. That's no reason.

The fact is that if this is an RPG,then you should have the option of asking a certain character whether he has feelings for Shep or something along those lines. What will that character respond,it's up to BioWare because they create NPC-s. Players should be the ones who create their Shepard.

Shepard didn't have an option to voice his support of Cerberus' goals in ME1. Does that mean in ME2 he was retconned when you do have him show support of Cerberus? I mean if Shepard supported Cerberus he would've said or done so in ME1. 

Edit: As far as I can recall. Shepard *could* be a racist douche in ME1. Just not a racist douche who supported Cerberus. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 mai 2011 - 04:51 .

[jlb524]

Ghost Warrior wrote...
Okay,but why wasn't Shepard able to pursue same-sex romances then? Maybe because he isn't bisexual?

No, not really...it's just that the ME team didn't want 'teh gay' in the form of an actual romance in ME1/ME2.

Remember that FemShep can pursue four women (Liara, Samara, Morinth and Kelly) but oddly enough cannot pursue Tali (even though she's soooo obviously flirting with her), Miranda, and Jack.  That doesn't make her any less gay/bisexual, it just means that the higher ups on the ME team thought that f/f romances weren't innocent or PG-13 enough to include them fully and with squad mates in ME2....but they snuck in Kelly somehow. 

ManShep hasn't been able to pursue anyone, but that doesn't make him straight.

[Siansonea]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

@Siansonea II
@centauri2002

But don't you see what you are doing? Throughout roleplaying,you make up reasons for why didn't Shepard try to pursue same-sex romances. That's no reason.

The fact is that if this is an RPG,then you should have the option of asking a certain character whether he has feelings for Shep or something along those lines. What will that character respond,it's up to BioWare because they create NPC-s. Players should be the ones who create their Shepard.

Aren't you also making up reasons? Did we not already have the "maybe" conversation? You didn't respond to any of my points that I made on this, I think that's quite telling. And you are meta-gaming. Why didn't Shepard make a pass at Tali or Garrus in the first game, like he/she does in the second game? Hmmmmmmm? Why did FemShep suddenly want some dextrochiral exoskeletal booty from our boy Garrus in ME2, but not in ME1? I don't recall that being addressed in the game. And why does ManShep suddenly want to uncork Tali's suit and get busy with her, even though it, you know, endangers her health and whatnot? I don't recall them talking about why he didn't say anything in the first game. Can we get the Retcon Police in here? 

[Centauri2002]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

@Siansonea II
@centauri2002

But don't you see what you are doing? Throughout roleplaying,you make up reasons for why didn't Shepard try to pursue same-sex romances. That's no reason.

The fact is that if this is an RPG,then you should have the option of asking a certain character whether he has feelings for Shep or something along those lines. What will that character respond,it's up to BioWare because they create NPC-s. Players should be the ones who create their Shepard.

Yes, you should have the option to ask the NPC if they are interested. But you should also have the option to not ask if you character is too scared or not ready. The case we are arguing is for that option to be included. It hasn't yet and that needs to be rectified. Because it's not in the game, doesn't mean the characters couldn't possibly feel that way. It's just a limit of coding.

And, for the record, I don't need to make excuses for my Shepard not being in a same sex romance, as she currently is in a committed and loving same sex romance. 

Also, the absence of something does not mean it never existed. Because one person's Shepard did not romance anyone in the Mass Effect games, does not mean they aren't gay or bisexual (or straight for that matter). The same for the NPCs. Until they actually tell you, it's all speculation.

Modifié par centauri2002, 14 mai 2011 - 04:54 .

[Saeran]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

@Siansonea II
@centauri2002

But don't you see what you are doing? Throughout roleplaying,you make up reasons for why didn't Shepard try to pursue same-sex romances. That's no reason.

The fact is that if this is an RPG,then you should have the option of asking a certain character whether he has feelings for Shep or something along those lines. What will that character respond,it's up to BioWare because they create NPC-s. Players should be the ones who create their Shepard.

I agree. We SHOULD have the option to ask whatever NPC we want to ask whatever we want. Unfortunately BioWare... sorry, the Mass Effect team, decided in the first 2 games that the only people you could initiate these romances with were all heterosexual, asexual (lolwhat?) or bisexual. And the bisexual option was only for lesbians/straight male gamers who like teh bewbies. I wouldn't mind frankly if I had the option to go up to Jacob and say "Hey, I really quite like you." And then get the response "That's cool Shepard, but I don't swing that way."... Maybe Jacob was a bad example but regardless, point stands.

It stings just not having any options for my Shepard to voice anything to do with his sexuality because after all.. he is my Shepard, and sexuality is pretty prevelant when it comes to M!Shep/insert female or F!Shep/insert male/cool green chick. He once had them options available. With Kaidan. But apparently BioWare are scared of someone out there being offended. Providing they aren't a homosexual male of course. In which case they, apparently, couldn't care less.

Modifié par Saeran, 14 mai 2011 - 04:55 .

[Ghost Warrior]

Ryzaki wrote...



Shepard didn't have an option to voice his support of Cerberus' goals in ME1. Does that mean in ME2 he was retconned when you do have him show support of Cerberus? I mean if Shepard supported Cerberus he would've said or done so in ME1. 

I'm sorry,I don't know what retconned means,Google translator won't translate it.

But I understand the last sentence,and Shepard should have been able to say something like "whatever reason is for these experiments,I am sure it's all for the greater good". But then again,all he knew back than about Cerberus is that it's a black ops organization which preformed sick experiments. In ME2,we discover that there is the other side of the coin,that Cerberus is not all bad.

[Siansonea]

Saeran wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

@Siansonea II
@centauri2002

But don't you see what you are doing? Throughout roleplaying,you make up reasons for why didn't Shepard try to pursue same-sex romances. That's no reason.

The fact is that if this is an RPG,then you should have the option of asking a certain character whether he has feelings for Shep or something along those lines. What will that character respond,it's up to BioWare because they create NPC-s. Players should be the ones who create their Shepard.

I agree. We SHOULD have the option to ask whatever NPC we want to ask whatever we want. Unfortunately BioWare... sorry, the Mass Effect team, decided in the first 2 games that the only people you could initiate these romances with were all heterosexual, asexual (lolwhat?) or bisexual. And the bisexual option was only for lesbians/straight male gamers who like teh bewbies. I wouldn't mind frankly if I had the option to go up to Jacob and say "Hey, I really quite like you." And then get the response "That's cool Shepard, but I don't swing that way."... Maybe Jacob was a bad example but regardless, point stands.

It stings just not having any options for my Shepard to voice anything to do with his sexuality because after all.. he is my Shepard, and sexuality is pretty prevelant when it comes to M!Shep/insert female or F!Shep/insert male/cool green chick. He once had them options available. With Kaidan. But apparently BioWare are scared of someone out there being offended. Providing they aren't a homosexual male of course. In which case they, apparently, couldn't care less.

They're obviously not afraid of offending me either, and I'm an ancient straight female. Maybe the only ones they ARE afraid of offending are homophobic young males who may-or-may-not be heterosexual. The rest of us are perfectly OK to offend, it seems. That's what all the currently available information points to, anyway.

[Centauri2002]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...



Shepard didn't have an option to voice his support of Cerberus' goals in ME1. Does that mean in ME2 he was retconned when you do have him show support of Cerberus? I mean if Shepard supported Cerberus he would've said or done so in ME1. 

I'm sorry,I don't know what retconned means,Google translator won't translate it.

But I understand the last sentence,and Shepard should have been able to say something like "whatever reason is for these experiments,I am sure it's all for the greater good". But then again,all he knew back than about Cerberus is that it's a black ops organization which preformed sick experiments. In ME2,we discover that there is the other side of the coin,that Cerberus is not all bad.

But then again, all Shepard knew back in ME1 was that Kaiden was a hetero biotic with a tendancy to get migraines. In ME3, we discover that there is another side of the coin, that Kaiden is not all straight.

[Siansonea]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...



Shepard didn't have an option to voice his support of Cerberus' goals in ME1. Does that mean in ME2 he was retconned when you do have him show support of Cerberus? I mean if Shepard supported Cerberus he would've said or done so in ME1. 

I'm sorry,I don't know what retconned means,Google translator won't translate it.

But I understand the last sentence,and Shepard should have been able to say something like "whatever reason is for these experiments,I am sure it's all for the greater good". But then again,all he knew back than about Cerberus is that it's a black ops organization which preformed sick experiments. In ME2,we discover that there is the other side of the coin,that Cerberus is not all bad.

Funny, I didn't 'discover' that at all. I did discover that Miranda, Jacob, and the Illusive Man did their best to try to 'spin' Cerberus as a worthwhile organization, but that's not wiping the slate clean for me. Admiral Kahoku, Corporal Toombs, and everyone who died on Akuze deserve better than "if what you say is true, I'll consider helping you", as far as I'M concerned.

[Ryzaki]

Ghost Warrior wrote...
I'm sorry,I don't know what retconned means,Google translator won't translate it.

But I understand the last sentence,and Shepard should have been able to say something like "whatever reason is for these experiments,I am sure it's all for the greater good". But then again,all he knew back than about Cerberus is that it's a black ops organization which preformed sick experiments. In ME2,we discover that there is the other side of the coin,that Cerberus is not all bad.

Retcon.  

...According to you. Cerberus is plenty bad to me (and Shepard can even voice both opinions). 

But you're right. Shepard didn't know alot about Cerberus. However Shepard did know Garrus and Tali. Why not express interest in them in ME1? 

[Siansonea]

centauri2002 wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...



Shepard didn't have an option to voice his support of Cerberus' goals in ME1. Does that mean in ME2 he was retconned when you do have him show support of Cerberus? I mean if Shepard supported Cerberus he would've said or done so in ME1. 

I'm sorry,I don't know what retconned means,Google translator won't translate it.

But I understand the last sentence,and Shepard should have been able to say something like "whatever reason is for these experiments,I am sure it's all for the greater good". But then again,all he knew back than about Cerberus is that it's a black ops organization which preformed sick experiments. In ME2,we discover that there is the other side of the coin,that Cerberus is not all bad.

But then again, all Shepard knew back in ME1 was that Kaiden was a hetero biotic with a tendancy to get migraines. In ME3, we discover that there is another side of the coin, that Kaiden is not all straight.

Actually, MaleShepard doesn't even know for a fact that Kaidan is exclusively heterosexual, or even heterosexual at all. All he knows is that Kaidan had an attachment to a girl named Rahna when he was younger, but that the relationship never went anywhere. MaleShepard might assume that Kaidan is heterosexual based on that conversation, but it's still just an assumption. MaleShepard never flat out asks Kaidan what his sexual orientation is, and for that matter, neither does FemaleShepard. So in the absence of an unequivocal declaration, we've got a whole ocean of Maybe to float our boats on.

[BrandNewMan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Shepard didn't have an option to voice his support of Cerberus' goals in ME1. Does that mean in ME2 he was retconned when you do have him show support of Cerberus? I mean if Shepard supported Cerberus he would've said or done so in ME1. 

Edit: As far as I can recall. Shepard *could* be a racist douche in ME1. Just not a racist douche who supported Cerberus. 

Tali: Hi, I'm Tali. I want to join you on your quest against Saren.

Shepard: NO!

Captain Anderson: Shepard, I think we could use all the help we can get.

Shepard: Great, ANOTHER alien. Fine...

*fast-forward to ME2*

Shepard: Take me, Tali! Show me your face and take me on this bed!

Modifié par BrandNewMan, 14 mai 2011 - 05:05 .

[Ryzaki]

BrandNewMan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Shepard didn't have an option to voice his support of Cerberus' goals in ME1. Does that mean in ME2 he was retconned when you do have him show support of Cerberus? I mean if Shepard supported Cerberus he would've said or done so in ME1. 

Edit: As far as I can recall. Shepard *could* be a racist douche in ME1. Just not a racist douche who supported Cerberus. 

Tali: Hi, I'm Tali. I want to join you on your quest against Saren.

Shepard: NO!

Captain Anderson: Shepard, I think we could use all the help we could get.

Shepard: Great, ANOTHER alien. Fine...

*fast-forward to ME2*

Shepard: Take me, Tali! Show me your face and take me on this bed!

  

Now *that's* a fine example of a retcon. 

[Centauri2002]

Siansonea II wrote...
Actually, MaleShepard doesn't even know for a fact that Kaidan is exclusively heterosexual, or even heterosexual at all. All he knows is that Kaidan had an attachment to a girl named Rahna when he was younger, but that the relationship never went anywhere. MaleShepard might assume that Kaidan is heterosexual based on that conversation, but it's still just an assumption. MaleShepard never flat out asks Kaidan what his sexual orientation is, and for that matter, neither does FemaleShepard. So in the absence of an unequivocal declaration, we've got a whole ocean of Maybe to float our boats on.

Oh I know this, but I was just using Ghost's wording to emphasise my point. 

[Ghost Warrior]

centauri2002 wrote...



But then again, all Shepard knew back in ME1 was that Kaiden was a hetero biotic with a tendancy to get migraines. In ME3, we discover that there is another side of the coin, that Kaiden is not all straight.

But Kaiden was your friend,and part of the crew so you could have asked him (if there was an option)
In ME1 we just killed a buch of Cerberus operatives,it's hard to ask someone "why are you doing this" while they are shooting at you.

And we should really quit this Cerberus analogy because we might get very off-topic. If we haven't already,that is.

[Centauri2002]

Ghost Warrior wrote...
But Kaiden was your friend,and part of the crew so you could have asked him (if there was an option)
In ME1 we just killed a buch of Cerberus operatives,it's hard to ask someone "why are you doing this" while they are shooting at you.

And we should really quit this Cerberus analogy because we might get very off-topic. If we haven't already,that is.

And as soon as BioWare add an option to ask this within the confines of the dialogue, I will concede the point to you.

However, I find it somewhat amusing that you don't require an option to ask if he is heterosexual to believe that is the case. 

[ADLegend21]

If I can have sex with beings who aren't compatiable with me due to science, I should be able to have sex with people of my own gender especially when said people of same sex look better than said aliens *being shallow and snarky*

[Ghost Warrior]

Ryzaki wrote...
. Why not express interest in them in ME1? 

That's what I am saying,he should have been able to and they could have said something like "I like you,but it's really not the time.With Saren and everything,I just...can't. But maybe when this is all over,maybe something could happen".

Now that would satisfy me and keep continuity.

[Ryzaki]

ADLegend21 wrote...

If I can have sex with beings who aren't compatiable with me due to science, I should be able to have sex with people of my own gender especially when said people of same sex look better than said aliens *being shallow and snarky*

And you're less likely to kill each other! 

Win-win!   

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
. Why not express interest in them in ME1? 

That's what I am saying,he should have been able to and they could have said something like "I like you,but it's really not the time.With Saren and everything,I just...can't. But maybe when this is all over,maybe something could happen".

Now that would satisfy me and keep continuity.

He should've. He wasn't. 

That didn't mean he didn't want to. 

But the devs demanded he not be able too. Just like for some mindboggling reason I can't tell TIM to kick rocks until near endgame. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 mai 2011 - 05:12 .

[BrandNewMan]

I do want to clarify that I am not advocating for s/s romance with existing LI's, as I'd rather have a new one. However, if Bioware were to write Kaidan as a bisexual character in ME3, I'd personally be able to accept that.