9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Syledir]

alienatedflea wrote...

shinyblacklatexkitty wrote...

anyway, I've seen plenty of presumably straight males supporting this too as well as bi/gay female players of which there's more than you might think, so you can hardly argue there's no market. A bit of "Taking advantage of my people's specialized skills that we try to downplay" (best viewed by pressing F11 for full screen) here.

also, religion/fox news is a non issue. Or it should be if Bioware have any sense. if anything it made Mass Effect famous for being a groundbreaking game, they shouldn't have gone backwards but further in being original and daring. There's no such thing as bad publicity.

i dont understand this...there might be more than i think there is of gay gamers but it still doesnt not change the fact that to implement this in ME3 or DLC...could ruin the game's storyline...its like telling everyone in lets say...harry potter that in the he is really a ****...thats too much of a "out of left field" thing...the first one, shep is not gay...the second one, he is not gay...now you people demand that there is s/s in the third one making him a ****? i dont even understand how you guys think thats even fair to the other gamers...and really to compare DA to ME is like comparing apples to oranges...one is a fantasy game while the other is sci fi...to say that "Oh there was that fruity elf in DA and their sales didnt go bad at all is a weak argument at best...there was no fruity characters in the first one or the second one...maybe some fruity gamers (sure) but thats their decision...but to for the gay gamer community to demand that there should be s/s romances in the game will only ruin the consistency of the game (of being straight shep THROUGHOUT) and could ruin the game altogether

It would be unfair to the other gamers if they were forced to play a gay Shepard in Mass Effect 3. But that is not what we are asking for. We want romanceable NPCs to be optional for same sex romance. Since Shepard needs to make the first step to activate the romance sub-plot the player decides which romantical partner Shepard gets. Straight gamers would still be able to have straight romance and gay gamers would be able to have gay romance. THAT would be fair.
It's not like only gay gamers would like to have the option for s/s romance in Mass Effect. It's a roleplaying game and a lot of people like to try different things. Will I be the Paragon or the Renegade this time? Male or female Shepard? Hetero- or homosexuall? That's the beauty of it. You may have a 100 different gamers and they may have had a 100 different experiences. You didn't just play as Shepard, you played as your Shepard and you make you own adventure.
How does Shepards sexuality change the games storyline? I played as a male Shepard in love with Ashley and I played as a female Shepard in love with Liara. Both were Soldiers, lived their childhood on starships and spacestations, earned the Star of Terra during the Blitz and both were a 100% Paragon. Apart from that there was no difference. NPCs reacted the same way to both of my Sheps. Had the same sidequests. Both became the first human spectre. Both fought Saren and both became the Saviour of the Citadel. As a matter of fact romances are no vital part of the Mass Effect storyline, because you do not need play them to finish the game.
Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2 have a lot of similarities. Both are RPGs and both have been developed by BioWare. Both Shepard and the Grey Warden are a part of an elite group. Both must fight against a seemingly unstoppable evil (Reapers or the Dark Horde). Both must gather forces for the final mission. BlaBlaBla. Still we didn't compare Mass Effect 2 only to Dragon Age, but also to Sims, Fable, Jade Empire, Canis Canem Edit. All of them offer the option for gay content and all oft them were financially successfull. Not all of them are RPGs and not all of them are from BioWare.
Consistency is what we expected from BioWare:
KotoR:               1 lesbian romance option.                    No visible intimacy
Jade Empire:   1 lesbian and 1 gay romance option. No visible intimacy
Mass Effect:     1 lesbian romance option.                    Intimacy visible
Dragon Age:    1 lesbian and 1 gay romance option.  Intimacy visible
Mass Effect 2:  uhm, yeah...

[CShep25]

Syledir wrote...

Shepard needs to make the first step to activate the romance sub-plot

If only that were true, but in the Mass Effect games, your potential lovers throw themselves at you. There's no room for subtlety. In Mass Effect 2, the culmination of every single romanceable character was sex; there were no seperate paths for you to take. You talked to them until the flirting got too serious and then either flat out reject them (with poor results), ignore them completely, or get the same trivial filler phrases spoken over and over again at you. I had to stop talking to Jack just so she wouldn't tell me to **** off. And those romance triggers were concealed within harmless looking set responses. I politely complimented Miranda and suddenly she started taking an interest and my Shepard was on the verge of spouting Chaucer (or overt sexually demeaning remarks, it was one or the other). It was such a difficult task navigating a path through the women hounding me, I had to reload quite a few times to stay faithful to Ashley. Not down to temptation, but due to ambiguous romance triggers.

[alienatedflea]

@ syledir

you miss my point...i think its great that in DA there was the option to do whatever you wanted to in romance...but DA and ME3 the difference is that DA is a start of a franchize...while ME3 already has a strong fan base and a well oiled storyline...you guys/girls compare DA and ME for your arguments for s/s but thats like comparing apples to oranges...IF there was the option to have s/s in me1 then i would expect in in me2 and me3...but to bring in s/s option in the third and last part of the trilogy would not mesh well with the consistency of the storyline...to say "oh yea you can be queer now shep, congrats and by the way i want those reapers dead by three o'clock" says the illusive man...would just be like really? how is that even fair to the people who like the game as is? so to me...it does not make sense to support this and expect the consistency of the storyline to remain strong...let me ask you this...do you want s/s or a great end to a brilliant trilogy? you cant have cake and eat it too...

[Wittand25]

alienatedflea wrote...

@ syledir
you miss my point...i think its great that in DA there was the option to do whatever you wanted to in romance...but DA and ME3 the difference is that DA is a start of a franchize...while ME3 already has a strong fan base and a well oiled storyline...you guys/girls compare DA and ME for your arguments for s/s but thats like comparing apples to oranges...IF there was the option to have s/s in me1 then i would expect in in me2 and me3...but to bring in s/s option in the third and last part of the trilogy would not mesh well with the consistency of the storyline...to say "oh yea you can be queer now shep, congrats and by the way i want those reapers dead by three o'clock" says the illusive man...would just be like really? how is that even fair to the people who like the game as is? so to me...it does not make sense to support this and expect the consistency of the storyline to remain strong...let me ask you this...do you want s/s or a great end to a brilliant trilogy? you cant have cake and eat it too...

One last time: Having s/s romances for both sexes in ME3 does not mess with continuity because you do not have to follow a m/f or f/f  romance before that. The standart Shepard you get if you did not import a safegame into ME2 had no romance in ME1 (and that is actually harder to achieve than to lay one of the two possibilities) and the Shepard you get for ME3 will also be without a past romance unless you import a safegame. So there is nothing in the standart Shepard´s past that would not fit with a s/s relationship in ME3, imported Shepards depend on the actions of the player. And even then MShep would be able to respond to the offer of a male LI with "I am only ointo women" like Fshep could respond to Liara in ME1.
I dont see how having s/s romances would make the end of the trilogy any worse, or even affect it at all.

And another thing: Please for the sake of readability change your writing style to whole sentences with punctuation.

[DanaScu]

alienatedflea wrote...

@ syledir
you miss my point...i think its great that in DA there was the option to do whatever you wanted to in romance...but DA and ME3 the difference is that DA is a start of a franchize...while ME3 already has a strong fan base and a well oiled storyline...you guys/girls compare DA and ME for your arguments for s/s but thats like comparing apples to oranges...IF there was the option to have s/s in me1 then i would expect in in me2 and me3...but to bring in s/s option in the third and last part of the trilogy would not mesh well with the consistency of the storyline...to say "oh yea you can be queer now shep, congrats and by the way i want those reapers dead by three o'clock" says the illusive man...would just be like really? how is that even fair to the people who like the game as is? so to me...it does not make sense to support this and expect the consistency of the storyline to remain strong...let me ask you this...do you want s/s or a great end to a brilliant trilogy? you cant have cake and eat it too...

I want my one femShep to be able to finish the story with Liara. You know, the same female romance she had in the first ME? The same female romance my femShep ignored Jacob the superstud heavy risk priiiizeee for, along with the terminally ill lizard with off-spring issues, and the incompatible dna type male for? My femShep has been "gay" since the first episode. Your Shepard hasn't. Why are you attempting to say I can't continue my Shepard and you should be able to keep playing yours? No one is asking that a ss romance be forced on anyone. What would be nice would be to have the option, just like the dialogue that was recorded but never used.

Modifié par DanaScu, 27 juillet 2010 - 04:56 .

[alienatedflea]

@Wittand25
i am not saying that the romance part of the game for males and females are fair...nothing is fair in life...and all i am saying is that if you were male and you had the option to have s/s in ME1 then it should be in the second and third parts of the trilogy and somehow thats way too hard for people to understand...consistency is key to great stories...not morphing the story to please more people while others get tossed to the wayside..

@DanaScu
im not sayin or even attempting you to stop playing your shep..what i am doing is protecting the game (everyone already high expectations on the game) and you guys/girls demand more stuff when i dont think the game will make anyone walk away from the game in disgust...so in a way you accuse me of being selfish when the storyline has already been made to be that romance for males are strictly heterosexual and the females are bisexual (something i had no control over)...but you say "it would be nice if...." but i dont see it happening but at the expense of something else, that being the storyline or the game, and it is interesting that people keep saying over and over again we dont want shep to be a ****/******...we just want the option to explore those realms right? well last time i checked being gay or straight is a lifestyle choice...your life changes...therefore shep would inevitably have to change to be gay or bi...(there is no way around that) and i wanna pose a question to you Dana, lets say shep is gay...what kind of gay are we talking about here? bc if he is a closest gay then the gay gamer community will come out in the masses to say mass effect franchise bashes gays....and if youre talking about openly gay, then you will have the same problem you had with the elf in DA which turned people off (both gay and straight gamers) from the franchise...so logistically speaking that would open pandora's box which would be bad for the developers...so i would think that to avoid problems they would stay the course (its worked so far) and have the romance options the same (male: strictly heterosexual and female: bisexual)

Modifié par alienatedflea, 27 juillet 2010 - 02:34 .

[Syledir]

alienatedflea wrote...

@ syledir
you miss my point...i think its great that in DA there was the option to do whatever you wanted to in romance...but DA and ME3 the difference is that DA is a start of a franchize...while ME3 already has a strong fan base and a well oiled storyline...you guys/girls compare DA and ME for your arguments for s/s but thats like comparing apples to oranges...IF there was the option to have s/s in me1 then i would expect in in me2 and me3...but to bring in s/s option in the third and last part of the trilogy would not mesh well with the consistency of the storyline...to say "oh yea you can be queer now shep, congrats and by the way i want those reapers dead by three o'clock" says the illusive man...would just be like really? how is that even fair to the people who like the game as is? so to me...it does not make sense to support this and expect the consistency of the storyline to remain strong...let me ask you this...do you want s/s or a great end to a brilliant trilogy? you cant have cake and eat it too...

You say to change character traits of an already existing character is wrong or to change the game dynamics of a game franchise with a fanbase is wrong. Again, I would have to agree with you, if the player would be forced to play a changed character. I'll give you three examples.
Fable 2: You were never able to have a lesbian relationship with another NPC during Fable 1. This has been added in the second game. But since no one had to play it that way, they could have easily played as a male character married to a woman, no one had a problem with it.
Saints Row 2: Not a RPG, but a game similar to the GTA series. The main hero has already been established. The "Playa" was male and an Afro-American. But you could change the appearance, if you so desired. The story was set. You had no influenced how story evolved. Not in Part 1 or in Part 2. During the second game you could play as a female (still the same established hero from the first game). The story evolved for the male and the female "Boss" (that's how people called you in the second game) in exactly the same way. There were no differences. And the people didn't start to cry out in anger. And you know why? Because, they could still play as the male, Afro-American Playa. It was optional.
KotoR: Revan is a canon character of the Star Wars franchise. Male, sexually attracted to woman (Exclusively? I don't know.) and a redeemed Jedi Knight. In the game you could play the game as a female Revan, in love with another woman. You could choose if you decided to be a redeemed Jedi Knight or a back-from-the-ashes Sith Lord. All those traits would contradict the canon version of Revan, but there was no uproar. Because, you guessed it, it was optional. You still could play a the male, in love with a woman, redeemed Jedi Knight.

KotoR:               1 lesbian romance option.                    No visible intimacy
Jade Empire:   1 lesbian and 1 gay romance option. No visible intimacy
Mass Effect:     1 lesbian romance option.                    Intimacy visible
Dragon Age:    1 lesbian and 1 gay romance option.  Intimacy visible

Don't tell me one can't have a great end to a brillian trilogy and s/s romance at the same time. It was already possible to have a romance between 2 females. To me, if felt like BioWare was constantly testing the waters and with every game they made one step further. In Mass Effect 2 they made the effort to create 6 different romance options. They had the time, the money and the resources to create s/s romance.

I played as a male Shepard in love with Ashley and I played as a female
Shepard in love with Liara. Both were Soldiers, lived their childhood
on starships and spacestations, earned the Star of Terra during the
Blitz and both were a 100% Paragon. Apart from that there was no
difference. NPCs reacted the same way to both of my Sheps. Had the same
sidequests. Both became the first human spectre. Both fought Saren and
both became the Saviour of the Citadel.

So, AGAIN, tell me how does Shepards sexuality change the games storyline?

[Siansonea]

alienatedflea wrote...
... well last time i checked being gay or straight is a lifestyle choice...your life changes...therefore shep would inevitably have to change to be gay or bi...(there is no way around that)

SO full of fail.

Why are you all indulging this kid? Can't you see this is a touchy subject for him? You have to wonder why he feels so strongly about this...

[zazei]

Just like to add my support. I don't play them but I don't see a reason not to include it. Especially the one I heard some Bioware dev said about Shepard as a character not being that way. Oh I forget. Asari are not women, they are aliens. Also Kelly is not a women either or it's perfectly natural and common for a women to do a private "dances" for each other and I somehow managed to miss that part my whole life.

[DarkRAM]

DanaScu wrote...

I want my one femShep to be able to finish the story with Liara. You know, the same female romance she had in the first ME? The same female romance my femShep ignored Jacob the superstud heavy risk priiiizeee for, along with the terminally ill lizard with off-spring issues, and the incompatible dna type male for? My femShep has been "gay" since the first episode. Your Shepard hasn't. Why are you attempting to say I can't continue my Shepard and you should be able to keep playing yours? No one is asking that a ss romance be forced on anyone. What would be nice would be to have the option, just like the dialogue that was recorded but never used.

I agree and support this 100%

[ScotGaymer]

zazei wrote...

Just like to add my support. I don't play them but I don't see a reason not to include it. Especially the one I heard some Bioware dev said about Shepard as a character not being that way. Oh I forget. Asari are not women, they are aliens. Also Kelly is not a women either or it's perfectly natural and common for a women to do a private "dances" for each other and I somehow managed to miss that part my whole life.

Exactly.

Biowares "explanation" is a load of bullcrap. PR nonsense they spouted because they were getting quite a bit of stick because of the lopsidedness of their ME2 romances both on the forums and from the media; lets face it the only semi decent romance in the game is Samara and you cant really properly romance her.
Its not just that theres been and is a lesbian "romance" in the 1st game (okay since Liara comes from an all female pansexual race she doesnt count as a lesbian but if FemShep falls for her then FemShep counts as a lesbian or a bisexual woman!) and a semi "romance" in the second game (Kelly clearly falls for FemShep and FemShep can clearly fall for her back even if they dont actually have sex it still effing counts!) and no gay romance.
Its also that the romances in ME2 SUCK really badly; I mean they basically destroy any chance at a platonic friendship with half of your crew. Its nuts.

And whats so annoying about it is Bioware made this massive thing out of the fact that "getting to know" your squadmates would be "really important". When the reality is its not important; all you need to do is make sure u do their stupid "loyality" quests and you can proceed to completely ignore them if you want and STILL get a favourable ending if you play it right.

Bioware needs to get their balls back and tell whatever EA exec that stuck his oar in about the romances in ME2 to shut up his face and butt out. And then deliver what they actually promise in terms of NPC/Squad interaction.

I am not even going to reply to that dutch guy because he seems determined to have a fight even tho I repeatedly said that I wasnt trying to have one. I dont want this thread to devolve to mudslinging thank you. We dont want it locked. Please ignore the ignorant homophobes.

[DanaScu]

alienatedflea wrote...
@DanaScu
im not sayin or even attempting you to stop playing your shep..what i am doing is protecting the game (everyone already high expectations on the game) and you guys/girls demand more stuff when i dont think the game will make anyone walk away from the game in disgust...so in a way you accuse me of being selfish when the storyline has already been made to be that romance for males are strictly heterosexual and the females are bisexual (something i had no control over)...but you say "it would be nice if...." but i dont see it happening but at the expense of something else, that being the storyline or the game, and it is interesting that people keep saying over and over again we dont want shep to be a ****/******...we just want the option to explore those realms right? well last time i checked being gay or straight is a lifestyle choice...your life changes...therefore shep would inevitably have to change to be gay or bi...(there is no way around that) and i wanna pose a question to you Dana, lets say shep is gay...what kind of gay are we talking about here? bc if he is a closest gay then the gay gamer community will come out in the masses to say mass effect franchise bashes gays....and if youre talking about openly gay, then you will have the same problem you had with the elf in DA which turned people off (both gay and straight gamers) from the franchise...so logistically speaking that would open pandora's box which would be bad for the developers...so i would think that to avoid problems they would stay the course (its worked so far) and have the romance options the same (male: strictly heterosexual and female: bisexual)

What are you protecting the game from, though? Freedom of choice regarding  how you play your character? The storyline doesn't change because of the romances. The storyline doesn't change if you don't do any of the romances.  The writers may have done a better job at setting up a lot of leeway in the storyline than you give them credit for, *since they included a lot of dialogue that showed possibilities*; there are links somewhere to what was actually recorded. If the dialogue was written by the devs and recorded by the VA, and IS NOT MANDATORY, how exactly is that changing the story?

You know, I saw personal reviews from people who were "turned off" by the combat in DA:O, or the graphics, or the story [since it wasn't the genre they were interested in]. I never saw, except a few of  the usual immature "its different and I'm not I'm part of the herd so kill it with fire" posts from people turned off by Zevran's character. I'm talking about the same level of maturity that some people who played Morrowind exhibited to the Bosmer npc Fargoth's "idle" comment; "I get the feeling that you and I are about to become very close." Those players came to Beth's forums and posted OMG FARGOTH IS GAY and went into great and gory detail about how they butchered him for "hitting on" their male pc. At one point it was so ridiculous that just about any thread that focused on Fargoth or Uncle Crassus ended up locked before immature toddler-types ended up banned for breaking the forum rules and tos. Ironically enough, no one *ever* mentioned that Galbedir, a female bosmer, used the same "idle" comment to female pcs. None of the female players ever posted about how they killed her for it, at any rate, let alone in graphic detail. [the devs, either accidently or intentionally, never set the "recognize pc gender" for the bosmer, so all of them had the potential to "hit on" your character.]  Personally, I didn't really like Zevran all that much. A few of my pcs killed him at the ambush. A few of them took him along and ignored him in the camp. You can do that, you see. The story allows it. Just like I don't think I'm missing much with my femShep by completely ignoring Jacob once I get the Normandy upgrade and his loyalty mission. [Yes, someday I'll make a femShep and do a romance in ME2 with anyone other than Jacob. Just like I made a non-import maleShep to do the romance with Tali and see what the default storyline was. I just don't find most of the ME2 crewmembers that fantastic. :shrug:]

I'm not going to touch the lifestyle choice remark. That is not on topic for this thread. You have your preconceived ideas and you won't consider anything outside of that. That is your choice.

[M8DMAN]

People need to realize not everyone is gay/bi. That includes fictional characters.

[SorenTrigg]

M8DMAN wrote...

People need to realize not everyone is gay/bi. That includes fictional characters.

Well, yes, that may be. But not everyone is straight, either.

[CShep25]

And Kelly is bi.

Setting every single character on the ship as bi to appease everyone sounds good on paper, but it involves some bland cutting, pasting and butchering of the character and personality. To suddenly make Jacob, Garrus, Miranda or Thane gay in ME3 is insulting to their established character. Have some exclusivity with new characters; have a character who is gay, have a character who is bi and have another character who is straight. Each seperate romances that only apply to the player's given sexuality. So in that respect, the ship isn't full of one dimensional omnisexuals whose only purpose is to serve as potential lovers; a direction ME2 wasn't entirely committed to, but certainly well on the way there.

Of course realistically, putting exclusivity into the game would be very complicated and time consuming. Just like how Mass Effect 2 made conversations shorter and more linear to accomodate the extra romance options, there would be even more substantial cutbacks in conversations if two more sexuality choices were implemented in addition to the established numbers of hetero relationships possible in ME1 and 2. It depends on what is more important to you; romancing someone of the same sex, or establishing platonic relationships with your crew. It's either/or. And I'd personally enjoy building friendships with my team without waiting for those damned calibrations to be calibrated way more than romancing anyone of the same or opposite sex.

Modifié par CShep25, 28 juillet 2010 - 02:23 .

[Aggie Punbot]

I would support same sex romances for ME3 (and ME2) so long as the 'getting into a romance' options on the dialogue wheel were properly designated as such (that is such a good idea, regardless of whether it's for same sex relationships or not). I personally would probably never utilize that option but just the option being there would be appreciated.

[Nordic Einar]

CShep25 wrote...

And Kelly is bi.

Setting every single character on the ship as bi to appease everyone sounds good on paper, but it involves some bland cutting, pasting and butchering of the character and personality. To suddenly make Jacob, Garrus, Miranda or Thane gay in ME3 is insulting to their established character. Have some exclusivity with new characters; have a character who is gay, have a character who is bi and have another character who is straight. Each seperate romances that only apply to the player's given sexuality. So in that respect, the ship isn't full of one dimensional omnisexuals whose only purpose is to serve as potential lovers; a direction ME2 wasn't entirely committed to, but certainly well on the way there.

Of course realistically, putting exclusivity into the game would be very complicated and time consuming. Just like how Mass Effect 2 made conversations shorter and more linear to accomodate the extra romance options, there would be even more substantial cutbacks in conversations if two more sexuality choices were implemented in addition to the established numbers of hetero relationships possible in ME1 and 2. It depends on what is more important to you; romancing someone of the same sex, or establishing platonic relationships with your crew. It's either/or. And I'd personally enjoy building friendships with my team without waiting for those damned calibrations to be calibrated way more than romancing anyone of the same or opposite sex.

Except Dragon Age: Origins had both same-sex relationships and QUITE in-depth platonic friendships, with all characters. You're creating a false dichotomy - there is no binary here. It is NOT either or, as Bioware themselves have shown in the past.

Though, truth be told, I'm beginning to lose faith in Bioware w/ some of the announcements regarding DA2 and their handling of all things ME...

[ScotGaymer]

Nordic Einar wrote...

Except Dragon Age: Origins had both same-sex relationships and QUITE in-depth platonic friendships, with all characters. You're creating a false dichotomy - there is no binary here. It is NOT either or, as Bioware themselves have shown in the past.

Though, truth be told, I'm beginning to lose faith in Bioware w/ some of the announcements regarding DA2 and their handling of all things ME...

Personally I think EA is interfering.

[alienatedflea]

Siansonea II wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...
... well last time i checked being gay or straight is a lifestyle choice...your life changes...therefore shep would inevitably have to change to be gay or bi...(there is no way around that)

SO full of fail.

Why are you all indulging this kid? Can't you see this is a touchy subject for him? You have to wonder why he feels so strongly about this...

um...i believe i said i dont have anything with gay people...i do have something against any person that whats the change a game to suit them more personally and that is what this is...im not forcing shep to be straight because im straight, NO, it is tho that male shep is straight in the storyline..there is no question about that and i dont see how one could debate that..to say that when a male shows another male some emotion does not mean they are gay by any means that just means there is trust between the two...and what is "so full of fail"?

[alienatedflea]

alright...let me ask people in this thread this...do you like being forced into doing something you dont want to do by other people or forced into being something youre not? because it seems to me that the gay people here are forcing the option to have s/s romances..which COULD or could NOT change him for what you see him to be now...someone said here that "everyone here needs to know that not everyone is gay/bi" when someone reply "well not everyone is straight either" so you guys/girls are fighting to have a s/s in me3 and says that its not like its going to change anything which it could because you dont know how ME3 is really going to end...and its simple to say that you dont know if shep will change being gay...because to say you want him/her to be gay in the final chapter of the storyline is like having Frodo remembering that he left the ring in his house in return of the king to me...it doesnt follow continuity or the consistency of the game...yet you argue and say it will change nothing...being gay is a lifestyle choice in my opinion like it is being straight...its a doubled edge sword

[CShep25]

Nordic Einar wrote...

Except Dragon Age: Origins had both same-sex relationships and QUITE in-depth platonic friendships, with all characters. You're creating a false dichotomy - there is no binary here. It is NOT either or, as Bioware themselves have shown in the past.

An entirely different team worked on DAO. And obviously the dynamic of the game is totally different to Mass Effect. For example, there's no spoken player dialogue, which frees up space and time to develop more depth with characters. Its up to the player's imagination to flesh out their own character at the benefit of more varied interaction; whereas Mass Effect provides the voice and some potential general personalities for Shepard. It is pretty much apples and oranges and they shouldn't be compared nearly as much as they are, especially in terms of technical feasibility.

Thinking about it practically, Bioware is a company out to make money. There's no harm in this; it's the point. Those people who come to the forum to request majorly diverse options in the next installment (such as piloting the Normandy) aren't going to get what they want because it's outside the game engine capabilities, or it would far too much hassle to implement for such a small segment of the game. Everything that's requested takes time and money to implement; as a video editor, sometimes my employers like to say "Oh why don't you add this?" without realising the scale of what they're asking to be added. 'Layman's ignorance' sounds a little harsher than I'd like, but it'll do. Since ME2 conversations struggled so much with the addition of several romance options, adding even more is just going to make it worse. Imagine Garrus calibrating for 3/4 of the game. And since ME3 will have a shorter development time, should they endulge in the unlikely notion of appeasing minority gamers (from a financial perspective), they won't have suitable time to work on another part of the game; likely the conversations if ME2 is anything to go by. Production is a balancing act; you ask for one thing and another (or more if the request is monumental like adding new romances) gets pushed out the window.

Of course, one solution is to make every single romanceable character bi, but that is character butchering. We've already established Garrus, Thane, Miranda as straight, Kelly as bi, and asari as omnisexual. Changing that for the final game isn't very immersive. Especially since potential romantic partners hit on Shepard way before he starts making advances. Given how brotherly close me and Garrus are, it just wouldn't happen given their friendship even if Garrus was bi. 

My only solution is to include one new bisexual male. Entirely new character with the possibility of romance by either femshep or maleshep. Plus, fleshing out a relationship with Kelly should be feasible for the female option of a bi character. I'd actually look forward to seeing how a romance blossoms with a character who isn't part of Shepard's ground team. Obviously, it's adding two more long sets of dialogue and still pretty impractical, but at least its not doubling the number of recorded lines or scenes, and appeasing some minority gamers.

[CShep25]

alienatedflea wrote...

alright...let me ask people in this thread this...do you like being forced into doing something you dont want to do by other people or forced into being something youre not? because it seems to me that the gay people here are forcing the option to have s/s romances..which COULD or could NOT change him for what you see him to be now...someone said here that "everyone here needs to know that not everyone is gay/bi" when someone reply "well not everyone is straight either" so you guys/girls are fighting to have a s/s in me3 and says that its not like its going to change anything which it could because you dont know how ME3 is really going to end...and its simple to say that you dont know if shep will change being gay...because to say you want him/her to be gay in the final chapter of the storyline is like having Frodo remembering that he left the ring in his house in return of the king to me...it doesnt follow continuity or the consistency of the game...yet you argue and say it will change nothing...being gay is a lifestyle choice in my opinion like it is being straight...its a doubled edge sword

Except being gay isn't exactly a lifestyle choice. It's been proven. Sorry. I may be against same-sex romance in ME3, but that reasoning is flawed.

Plus, being gay wouldn't change Shepard's personality at all. You're thinking of annoying over the top stereotypes. A gay person can be just as masculine and badass as a straight guy. If not moreso in some cases.

[Siansonea]

alienatedflea wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...
... well last time i checked being gay or straight is a lifestyle choice...your life changes...therefore shep would inevitably have to change to be gay or bi...(there is no way around that)

SO full of fail.

Why are you all indulging this kid? Can't you see this is a touchy subject for him? You have to wonder why he feels so strongly about this...

um...i believe i said i dont have anything with gay people...i do have something against any person that whats the change a game to suit them more personally and that is what this is...im not forcing shep to be straight because im straight, NO, it is tho that male shep is straight in the storyline..there is no question about that and i dont see how one could debate that..to say that when a male shows another male some emotion does not mean they are gay by any means that just means there is trust between the two...and what is "so full of fail"?

"last time i checked being gay or straight is a lifestyle choice"...?

Really? What do you know about it? Do you honestly think that gay people are just heterosexual people who wake up one day and say "You know what, I think I'll be gay from now on!" Calling it a 'lifestyle choice' trivializes it, and demonstrates your youth and/or ignorance on the matter.

And no one is trying to FORCE you to play a gay Shepard. For the last time, the supporters of this thread are only asking for an additional OPTION. And if a given Shepard avoided romance in the first two games, who is to say that he wasn't gay the whole time? And what if a player wants a bisexual Shepard, who romances women and men?

Adding same-sex options TAKES NOTHING AWAY from your straight Shepard playthroughs. Your straight-as-an-arrow Manly Man Shepard will not suddenly find himself in pink leather chaps at a discotheque. You are completely (and I think deliberately) misunderstanding what we're talking about here.