alright...let me ask people in this thread this...do you like being forced into doing something you dont want to do by other people or forced into being something youre not? because it seems to me that the gay people here are forcing the option to have s/s romances..which COULD or could NOT change him for what you see him to be now...someone said here that "everyone here needs to know that not everyone is gay/bi" when someone reply "well not everyone is straight either" so you guys/girls are fighting to have a s/s in me3 and says that its not like its going to change anything which it could because you dont know how ME3 is really going to end...and its simple to say that you dont know if shep will change being gay...because to say you want him/her to be gay in the final chapter of the storyline is like having Frodo remembering that he left the ring in his house in return of the king to me...it doesnt follow continuity or the consistency of the game...yet you argue and say it will change nothing...being gay is a lifestyle choice in my opinion like it is being straight...its a doubled edge sword
I would suggest we ignore, and refrain from quoting, people who are unwilling to admit that they don't have a clue as to what they're talking about. They are just as likely to derail the thread as a mere troll.
- Though I'm honestly not sure which one of them we're dealing with here.
I know what you mean LG, something is VERY fishy here, and I don't know if it's troll-ism, ignorance, or someone with an anti-gay agenda. If it's just ignorance/youth, I do want to educate them if we can, but there's only so much we can do. One's upbringing is often a form of Indoctrination into a political/religious/social dogma, and it's often too powerful to counteract with mere logic and common sense.
Either way, it's obvious alien isn't going to change his stance on this - he continues to misunderstand our comments and argue against strawmen; it would be best if we just moved on.
This isn't the place to discuss GLBT issues in the real world, as much as I'd like to.
Getting education the hard way is only way that works, believe me. Trying to educate anyone who is not willing to take that education is a lost battle. Teacher just gets angry and frustrated, and student even more stubborn. Life is a hell of a teacher.
alienatedflea wrote... ... well last time i checked being gay or straight is a lifestyle choice...your life changes...therefore shep would inevitably have to change to be gay or bi...(there is no way around that)
SO full of fail.
Why are you all indulging this kid? Can't you see this is a touchy subject for him? You have to wonder why he feels so strongly about this...
um...i believe i said i dont have anything with gay people...i do have something against any person that whats the change a game to suit them more personally and that is what this is...im not forcing shep to be straight because im straight, NO, it is tho that male shep is straight in the storyline..there is no question about that and i dont see how one could debate that..to say that when a male shows another male some emotion does not mean they are gay by any means that just means there is trust between the two...and what is "so full of fail"?
"last time i checked being gay or straight is a lifestyle choice"...?
Really? What do you know about it? Do you honestly think that gay people are just heterosexual people who wake up one day and say "You know what, I think I'll be gay from now on!" Calling it a 'lifestyle choice' trivializes it, and demonstrates your youth and/or ignorance on the matter.
And no one is trying to FORCE you to play a gay Shepard. For the last time, the supporters of this thread are only asking for an additional OPTION. And if a given Shepard avoided romance in the first two games, who is to say that he wasn't gay the whole time? And what if a player wants a bisexual Shepard, who romances women and men?
Adding same-sex options TAKES NOTHING AWAY from your straight Shepard playthroughs. Your straight-as-an-arrow Manly Man Shepard will not suddenly find himself in pink leather chaps at a discotheque. You are completely (and I think deliberately) misunderstanding what we're talking about here.
But the OPTION they are asking for is to turn every Love interest bi.
Now this would work on certian levels with characters like Subject Zero and Garrus due to dialog not really revealing their sexual orientation, but to turn squadmates like Kaiden and Tali bi would ruin their character background.
I mean in the first ME kaiden admits to having a female crush in jump zero and in ME2 Tali talks about being into males, so sudenly makeing them bi would be out of Character.
alienatedflea wrote... ... well last time i checked being gay or straight is a lifestyle choice...your life changes...therefore shep would inevitably have to change to be gay or bi...(there is no way around that)
SO full of fail.
Why are you all indulging this kid? Can't you see this is a touchy subject for him? You have to wonder why he feels so strongly about this...
um...i believe i said i dont have anything with gay people...i do have something against any person that whats the change a game to suit them more personally and that is what this is...im not forcing shep to be straight because im straight, NO, it is tho that male shep is straight in the storyline..there is no question about that and i dont see how one could debate that..to say that when a male shows another male some emotion does not mean they are gay by any means that just means there is trust between the two...and what is "so full of fail"?
"last time i checked being gay or straight is a lifestyle choice"...?
Really? What do you know about it? Do you honestly think that gay people are just heterosexual people who wake up one day and say "You know what, I think I'll be gay from now on!" Calling it a 'lifestyle choice' trivializes it, and demonstrates your youth and/or ignorance on the matter.
And no one is trying to FORCE you to play a gay Shepard. For the last time, the supporters of this thread are only asking for an additional OPTION. And if a given Shepard avoided romance in the first two games, who is to say that he wasn't gay the whole time? And what if a player wants a bisexual Shepard, who romances women and men?
Adding same-sex options TAKES NOTHING AWAY from your straight Shepard playthroughs. Your straight-as-an-arrow Manly Man Shepard will not suddenly find himself in pink leather chaps at a discotheque. You are completely (and I think deliberately) misunderstanding what we're talking about here.
But the OPTION they are asking for is to turn every Love interest bi.
Now this would work on certian levels with characters like Subject Zero and Garrus due to dialog not really revealing their sexual orientation, but to turn squadmates like Kaiden and Tali bi would ruin their character background.
I mean in the first ME kaiden admits to having a female crush in jump zero and in ME2 Tali talks about being into males, so sudenly makeing them bi would be out of Character.
Originally, Kaidan was going to be avalible for a m'm romance and Tali for a F/F. It would just be bringing them back to the orignal vision. Plus, they never explictly say they're not intrested in the same sex.
Except Dragon Age: Origins had both same-sex relationships and QUITE in-depth platonic friendships, with all characters. You're creating a false dichotomy - there is no binary here. It is NOT either or, as Bioware themselves have shown in the past.
An entirely different team worked on DAO. And obviously the dynamic of the game is totally different to Mass Effect. For example, there's no spoken player dialogue, which frees up space and time to develop more depth with characters. Its up to the player's imagination to flesh out their own character at the benefit of more varied interaction; whereas Mass Effect provides the voice and some potential general personalities for Shepard. It is pretty much apples and oranges and they shouldn't be compared nearly as much as they are, especially in terms of technical feasibility.
Thinking about it practically, Bioware is a company out to make money. There's no harm in this; it's the point. Those people who come to the forum to request majorly diverse options in the next installment (such as piloting the Normandy) aren't going to get what they want because it's outside the game engine capabilities, or it would far too much hassle to implement for such a small segment of the game. Everything that's requested takes time and money to implement; as a video editor, sometimes my employers like to say "Oh why don't you add this?" without realising the scale of what they're asking to be added. 'Layman's ignorance' sounds a little harsher than I'd like, but it'll do. Since ME2 conversations struggled so much with the addition of several romance options, adding even more is just going to make it worse. Imagine Garrus calibrating for 3/4 of the game. And since ME3 will have a shorter development time, should they endulge in the unlikely notion of appeasing minority gamers (from a financial perspective), they won't have suitable time to work on another part of the game; likely the conversations if ME2 is anything to go by. Production is a balancing act; you ask for one thing and another (or more if the request is monumental like adding new romances) gets pushed out the window.
Of course, one solution is to make every single romanceable character bi, but that is character butchering. We've already established Garrus, Thane, Miranda as straight, Kelly as bi, and asari as omnisexual. Changing that for the final game isn't very immersive. Especially since potential romantic partners hit on Shepard way before he starts making advances. Given how brotherly close me and Garrus are, it just wouldn't happen given their friendship even if Garrus was bi.
My only solution is to include one new bisexual male. Entirely new character with the possibility of romance by either femshep or maleshep. Plus, fleshing out a relationship with Kelly should be feasible for the female option of a bi character. I'd actually look forward to seeing how a romance blossoms with a character who isn't part of Shepard's ground team. Obviously, it's adding two more long sets of dialogue and still pretty impractical, but at least its not doubling the number of recorded lines or scenes, and appeasing some minority gamers.
Not to be blunt, here, but the issue of resources is absurd. Bioware already PAID writers and voice actors to do the "gay" and "lesbian" scenes and spoken voice dialogue - it's present in the code, and a simple Google or You Tube search will land you with full examples. They made the investment of time and money already, in both ME 1 and ME 2, and then decided not to ahead with it in the final release. Not for budget or development reasons, or because it didn't "fit the character personalities," but because someone higher up in the company decided it a) wasn't worth the PR fight, wasn't "lighthearted" enough (because seeing your crew liquified, that's good fun for the whole family, but lesbian/gay sex....), or c) some other reason they haven't disclosed. The fact is, though, that the material was created and paid for. It was ALREADY party of the game, and then cut.
In other words, the ret-con was making Ashley, Tali and Miranda and Thane (at minimum - possibly Kaidan or Jack as well) straight rather than bi. If we're going to discuss this, don't call it a resource-management decision - it wasn't. It was purely bowing to the morality police and changing things once the game was already set-up a certain way.
alienatedflea wrote... ... well last time i checked being gay or straight is a lifestyle choice...your life changes...therefore shep would inevitably have to change to be gay or bi...(there is no way around that)
SO full of fail.
Why are you all indulging this kid? Can't you see this is a touchy subject for him? You have to wonder why he feels so strongly about this...
um...i believe i said i dont have anything with gay people...i do have something against any person that whats the change a game to suit them more personally and that is what this is...im not forcing shep to be straight because im straight, NO, it is tho that male shep is straight in the storyline..there is no question about that and i dont see how one could debate that..to say that when a male shows another male some emotion does not mean they are gay by any means that just means there is trust between the two...and what is "so full of fail"?
"last time i checked being gay or straight is a lifestyle choice"...?
Really? What do you know about it? Do you honestly think that gay people are just heterosexual people who wake up one day and say "You know what, I think I'll be gay from now on!" Calling it a 'lifestyle choice' trivializes it, and demonstrates your youth and/or ignorance on the matter.
And no one is trying to FORCE you to play a gay Shepard. For the last time, the supporters of this thread are only asking for an additional OPTION. And if a given Shepard avoided romance in the first two games, who is to say that he wasn't gay the whole time? And what if a player wants a bisexual Shepard, who romances women and men?
Adding same-sex options TAKES NOTHING AWAY from your straight Shepard playthroughs. Your straight-as-an-arrow Manly Man Shepard will not suddenly find himself in pink leather chaps at a discotheque. You are completely (and I think deliberately) misunderstanding what we're talking about here.
But the OPTION they are asking for is to turn every Love interest bi.
Now this would work on certian levels with characters like Subject Zero and Garrus due to dialog not really revealing their sexual orientation, but to turn squadmates like Kaiden and Tali bi would ruin their character background.
I mean in the first ME kaiden admits to having a female crush in jump zero and in ME2 Tali talks about being into males, so sudenly makeing them bi would be out of Character.
Because bisexual men can't have crushes on females, and bisexual female aliens can't have crushes on males? You do know what 'bisexual' means, right?
Keep in mind that if Bioware bends backwards and add said feature because of this thread, then people will take for granted that they will add any feature if posters just made enough threads here about what they want, no matter how many times it gets locked. So keep that in mind, Bioware.
I mean in the first ME kaiden admits to having a female crush in jump zero and in ME2 Tali talks about being into males, so sudenly makeing them bi would be out of Character.
Dunno about Kaiden (and don´t care, to be honest, cos he sucks) but you´re wrong about Tali. She admits to having a crush on Shepard, not on males (unless Shepard is male in which case a lesbian Tali isn´t there anyways).
Keep in mind that if Bioware bends backwards and add said feature because of this thread, then people will take for granted that they will add any feature if posters just made enough threads here about what they want, no matter how many times it gets locked. So keep that in mind, Bioware.
Keep in mind that every thread gets locked if Eddo posts often enough in it...........
Eddo36 wrote... Keep in mind that if Bioware bends backwards and add said feature because of this thread, then people will take for granted that they will add any feature if posters just made enough threads here about what they want, no matter how many times it gets locked. So keep that in mind, Bioware.
Have you seen all the links in the op showing all the ss content for ME1 and 2 they'd made ready to go?Seems to me someone there is currently bending over backwards to exclude said feature.
Keep in mind that if Bioware bends backwards and add said feature because of this thread, then people will take for granted that they will add any feature if posters just made enough threads here about what they want, no matter how many times it gets locked. So keep that in mind, Bioware.
Keep in mind that every thread gets locked if Eddo posts often enough in it...........
lol
Hey Trigon, where did you get that Sig from? I want to get one that says "Garrus Loves Male Shep" or " Garrus for Male LI for ME3"
Not to be blunt, here, but the issue of resources is absurd. Bioware already PAID writers and voice actors to do the "gay" and "lesbian" scenes and spoken voice dialogue - it's present in the code, and a simple Google or You Tube search will land you with full examples.
Yep, for ME1 they did that. But to activate a same sex romance in ME2, you have to mess with gender flags; more of a bug than being intentionally built into the system. Plus, ME2 has no m/m dialogue, likely due to the increased amount of conversation possibilities. Going from six squadmates to twelve and three romances to seven is a pretty tall order.
Not to be blunt, here, but the issue of resources is absurd. Bioware already PAID writers and voice actors to do the "gay" and "lesbian" scenes and spoken voice dialogue - it's present in the code, and a simple Google or You Tube search will land you with full examples. They made the investment of time and money already, in both ME 1 and ME 2, and then decided not to ahead with it in the final release. Not for budget or development reasons, or because it didn't "fit the character personalities," but because someone higher up in the company decided it a) wasn't worth the PR fight, wasn't "lighthearted" enough (because seeing your crew liquified, that's good fun for the whole family, but lesbian/gay sex....), or c) some other reason they haven't disclosed. The fact is, though, that the material was created and paid for. It was ALREADY party of the game, and then cut.
In other words, the ret-con was making Ashley, Tali and Miranda and Thane (at minimum - possibly Kaidan or Jack as well) straight rather than bi. If we're going to discuss this, don't call it a resource-management decision - it wasn't. It was purely bowing to the morality police and changing things once the game was already set-up a certain way.
I'm known in many places on the Internet for being exceptionally mature when people are being immature. I'm a voice of reason in heated discussions, and I don't get angry often. Thus, whomever at Bioware made the choice to cut these options out of the game, know that I say the following with utmost seriousness. "Bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk CHICKEN! bawk bawk bawk." Because choosing to cut those parts out was the act of a coward, and the way you did it could not possibly have been more offensive if you'd been trying to offend.
In Mass Effect 2, the culmination of every single romanceable character was sex; there were no seperate paths for you to take. You talked to them until the flirting got too serious and then either flat out reject them (with poor results), ignore them completely, or get the same trivial filler phrases spoken over and over again at you. I had to stop talking to Jack just so she wouldn't tell me to **** off. And those romance triggers were concealed within harmless looking set responses.
That's what I read many times. And not only in Mass Effect 2 but in Dragon Age aswell. I never had a problem though. My femshep shared a bro-hug with Jacob, talked about flexibility with Garrus and talked many times with Thane about his past, present and future. As a maleshep it was even simpler: Don't try to be friendly or you will be literally ****ed. Neutral answers worked the best, because I could still unlock all the loyality missions of them and still keep my distance. Nevertheless, people seem to have problems with it, so the romance/dialogue system could use a few modifications, like the ones on Page 1 of this thread, for example. My hope is, that the new dialogue system of Dragon Age 2 will work as good as it sounds. If it does, BioWare could use it in Mass Effect 3 aswell.
Setting every single character on the ship as bi to appease everyone sounds good on paper, but it involves some bland cutting, pasting and butchering of the character and personality. To suddenly make Jacob, Garrus, Miranda or Thane gay in ME3 is insulting to their established character. Have some exclusivity with new characters; have a character who is gay, have a character who is bi and have another character who is straight. Each seperate romances that only apply to the player's given sexuality. So in that respect, the ship isn't full of one dimensional omnisexuals whose only purpose is to serve as potential lovers; a direction ME2 wasn't entirely committed to, but certainly well on the way there.
You wouldn't need to butcher the character or his/her personality. Read the earlier threads and posts about this topic, and you will see that most if not all gamers, who pursued a s/s romance, thought that one NPC was flirting with them already, or liked the NPCs personality. Might be that a lesbian gamer likes Ashley for the same reasons a straight gamer does. Might be that a gay gamer is not so different from you after all. A lesbian relationship with Tali would be: Removal of gender check, re-insertion of the s/s dialogue and voila. No cutting, pasting, butchering
You see Asari as omnisexual. Does Liara or Aria seem one dimensional to you? As a matter of fact Shepard can always be sure that Liara loves him for his character/personality first, not because he (for example) is a man first and for his character/personality second.
It depends on what is more important to you; romancing someone of the same sex, or establishing platonic relationships with your crew. It's either/or. and Since ME2 conversations struggled so much with the addition of several romance options, adding even more is just going to make it worse.
How about decreasing heterosexuall romance options and increasing bisexuall romance options.
We've already established Garrus, Thane, Miranda as straight, Kelly as bi, and asari as omnisexual.
Wait a moment none of them said that they were straight, just like Shepard didn't. The only thing you can say about them is that they like members of the opposite sex. Exclusively? You can't say for sure.
Yep, for ME1 they did that. But to activate a same sex romance in ME2, you have to mess with gender flags; more of a bug than being intentionally built into the system. Plus, ME2 has no m/m dialogue, likely due to the increased amount of conversation possibilities. Going from six squadmates to twelve and three romances to seven is a pretty tall order.
Keep in mind that if Bioware bends backwards and add said feature because of this thread, then people will take for granted that they will add any feature if posters just made enough threads here about what they want, no matter how many times it gets locked. So keep that in mind, Bioware.
Not to be blunt, here, but the issue of resources is absurd. Bioware already PAID writers and voice actors to do the "gay" and "lesbian" scenes and spoken voice dialogue - it's present in the code, and a simple Google or You Tube search will land you with full examples.
Yep, for ME1 they did that. But to activate a same sex romance in ME2, you have to mess with gender flags; more of a bug than being intentionally built into the system. Plus, ME2 has no m/m dialogue, likely due to the increased amount of conversation possibilities. Going from six squadmates to twelve and three romances to seven is a pretty tall order.
Actually, Thane was originally a m/m option with some dialouge, so that doesn't work. But, off topic a little, I like folks like you CShep. People who debate agianst S/S but with legitmate reasons. but who offer a compromise.
Keep in mind that if Bioware bends backwards and add said feature because of this thread, then people will take for granted that they will add any feature if posters just made enough threads here about what they want, no matter how many times it gets locked. So keep that in mind, Bioware.
[I'm not going to touch the lifestyle choice remark. That is not on topic for this thread. You have your preconceived ideas and you won't consider anything outside of that. That is your choice.
well its funny you say that "i have preconceived ideas and i wont consider anything out of that" remark because you are doing the same thing i am doing...you have the preconceived thought that more options wouldnt hurt the game but in the end...you cant guarantee that it wouldnt change/hurt the game...the people i have talked about DA either love or hate it...for various reasons and the same people who play ME says its better than DA..now i have to ask that why do you want to make shep gay when he/she wasnt in the first TWO games...its too late to just add new things in the story...i dont understand why thats so hard to grasp...it really is too late to change be adding stuff that isnt really going to add to the game experience (i mean really? if you dont get s/s in ME3 that will bring you to the edge? ><) and i have said REPEATLY that IF the first part of the trilogy had the option for s/s then it shouldve had those options for the second and the third one and i would have no problem with that but seeing how in the first and second games had male shep being straight and female being bisexual then it should be like that in the last part of the trilogy...because that would be CONSISTENT! but everyone here reads this and says "well rationalization, rationalization, rationalization" then still thinks they "won" the arguement of have s/s in the game...please people correct me if im wrong when i say that a good trilogy has consistency throughout the series right? how is having s/s in me3 be consistent with the others? answer that please
[/i]How about decreasing heterosexuall romance options and increasing bisexuall romance options.
so you guys really do want to queer up the game? and how is that not forcing homosexuality on people?! just this post makes the credibility in this threat go down...
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wasn't "lighthearted" enough (because seeing your crew liquified, that's good fun for the whole family, but lesbian/gay sex....), or c) some other reason they haven't disclosed. The fact is, though, that the material was created and paid for. It was ALREADY party of the game, and then cut. 
